What does Xykon see as his flaw or missing skill?

[renovator]

Xykon: [to the MitD] We're seriously evil badasses here. I'm a mighty lich sorcerer, Redcloak is high priest of his evil goblin deity, and you — well, we all know how powerful you are.


Apart from his phylactery(s) and the inability to enjoy food, does Xykon thinks he has flaws or missing skills ?

There are multiple posts on his stats and people put his as wise and very intelligent[1]
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?30438-OOTS-stats
But does Xykon see he has any flaw ? and if he did would he do anything about it ?

[1] Although he seems not to have all of the wisdom (eg not all of willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition)) and the intelligence characteristics (eg not all of mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason)

[Synesthesy]

I think that Xykon see nothing as his missing skill, as it was when he was young and alive.

For him, the only skill you need is the ability to destroy with fire - sometime with lightning - you need nothing more. Power equals power, after all, and he has lots of power. He may even be the single most powerfull being in the oots-universe, exept the gods, for what we know.


For what we think is his flaw, I say it's arrogance. He think that his allies can betray him, but he think that when it will be, he'll have everything under control. Will it be true?
Soon Kim and his ghost martyr, and Darth V, almost killed him for the same reason: he never think there is someone playing in the same league he is.

And the reason why team evil is so strong is that Redcloak is quite the opposite, he compensates.

[Resileaf]

I don't think his flaw is his arrogance, because he has the power to back it up, but his lack of caring. He's content with believing the leash he has on Redcloak and MitD is tight enough to keep them docile. We know Redcloak is subtly manipulating him into doing some things he wants, although that little dynamic has been disturbed by V's attack and the subsequent loss of his phylactery. Dunno how much he's wizened up to Redcloak's plans, but it's a fair guess that the last book will handle all those plot points.

[Fyraltari]

Being able to make magic items for more than 8 hours every 24 hours. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html)

[B. Dandelion]

In SoD he admits that he gets bored easily and has no interest in strategy or tactics or contingency planning. But that's okay because "there's always a level of force against which no tactics can succeed".

It's possible he sees his ability to dominate the likes of Redcloak, who is more tactically-minded, as compensating for his own lack of interest in such things, although if that's the case he certainly doesn't let on in front of him.

[thereaper]

Not having enough minions to sacrifice.

[RMS Oceanic]

He'll probably say his biggest weakness is minions that let him down, like how Redcloak nearly cost him his phylactery.

His biggest weakness is minions that will let him down, like MitD persuading him to leave the Order alone.

[Fish]

It's hard to say what Xykon thinks his own personal flaw is. He's immune to cold, electricity, fire, non-magical damage, polymorph, mind-affecting spells, poison, sleep, paralysis, disease, stun, death effects, critical hits, ability drain, energy drain, nonlethal damage, and suffocation.

Seriously, if Xykon is not that level of force against which no tactics succeed — and we hope not, otherwise it could be an unhappy ending for the Order — what tactics would? V will probably have to use ... SONIC!!

[Emanick]

It's hard to say what Xykon thinks his own personal flaw is. He's immune to cold, electricity, fire, non-magical damage, polymorph, mind-affecting spells, poison, sleep, paralysis, disease, stun, death effects, critical hits, ability drain, energy drain, nonlethal damage, and suffocation.

Seriously, if Xykon is not that level of force against which no tactics succeed — and we hope not, otherwise it could be an unhappy ending for the Order — what tactics would? V will probably have to use ... SONIC!!

Along that line of thinking, vulnerability to incorporeal creatures like Soon might qualify as Xykon's "flaw." They can attack him just fine, but he can't use his best stuff against them reliably.

[Chei]

Someone's already said this, but Xykon did basically list out some of his flaws, but in the same (figurative) breath he declared them all irrelevant. So, arrogance is the underlying flaw there. Xykon is also, like Tarquin, a control freak who flips out when things aren't going his way (see: the V/O-Chul phylactery debacle).

[Snails]

He'll probably say his biggest weakness is minions that let him down, like how Redcloak nearly cost him his phylactery.

His biggest weakness is minions that will let him down, like MitD persuading him to leave the Order alone.

Regarding the MitD, I think that is missing the key point of that scene.

IMO Xykon understood perfectly well that what the MitD was saying could be hooey. But accepting an argument with obvious holes to overrule Redcloak is much more humiliating to Redcloak than overruling based on a genuinely strong argument. In the moment, Xykon thought the positive value of putting Redcloak in his place via humiliation was well worth the minor strategic risk of not bothering to murder a few dogooder punks.

In a sense, Xykon was acting on a correct insight: the greatest risk to his personal plans is Redcloak.

Xykon is savvy enough to knock people off their game and prevail (e.g. Lirian, Dorukan, DarthV), but does not have what it takes to outplay someone who is a genuinely skilled planner (e.g. Soon, Redcloak). The main point of believing the MitD is to put Redcloak off his game. Unfortunately for Xykon, he failed to understand how clever his opponent here (Redcloak) really is.

[RMS Oceanic]

Regarding the MitD, I think that is missing the key point of that scene.

IMO Xykon understood perfectly well that what the MitD was saying could be hooey. But accepting an argument with obvious holes to overrule Redcloak is much more humiliating to Redcloak than overruling based on a genuinely strong argument. In the moment, Xykon thought the positive value of putting Redcloak in his place via humiliation was well worth the minor strategic risk of not bothering to murder a few dogooder punks.

In a sense, Xykon was acting on a correct insight: the greatest risk to his personal plans is Redcloak.

Xykon is savvy enough to knock people off their game and prevail (e.g. Lirian, Dorukan, DarthV), but does not have what it takes to outplay someone who is a genuinely skilled planner (e.g. Soon, Redcloak). The main point of believing the MitD is to put Redcloak off his game. Unfortunately for Xykon, he failed to understand how clever his opponent here (Redcloak) really is.

Well the way I see that he sees it, the biggest vulnerability in his scheme that doesn't revolve around D&D stats - because yeah, that monk Belkar replaced in Origin of PCs would have done more damage to Xykon on the dragon than Roy, but that's not interesting - is he has to rely on people who aren't necessarily 100% aligned with him. He kinda sees the danger with Redcloak, active schemer, but MitD developing a mind of his own seems to have flown under his radar.

[SlashDash]

Speaking of him doing stuff about weaknesses, in start of darkness


There is the whole thing about him being vulnerable to positive energy sneak attacks or whatever. We later find out that he got an item to block it.


So it's safe to say, being undead has some weaknesses to it. Heal spells and such. Do liches have weakness to sunlight? Don't recall.



Soon Kim and his ghost martyr, and Darth V, almost killed him for the same reason: he never think there is someone playing in the same league he is.

I disagree entirely. Xykon is always playing around until he realizes there's an actual threat. He was playing around with Roy till he pissed him off then killed him in Azure City.

He was probably going to play with him too in the dungeon, but once he heard the sword can actually kill him? He instantly zapped it.

Darth V? Same thing. As soon as it's clear they are a threat, he even says he'll do what it takes - which includes taking strategy tips from Redcloak.



And the reason why team evil is so strong is that Redcloak is quite the opposite, he compensates.
This is actually very true. Redcloak is the master strategist between those two. He just doesn't have the fire power that Xykon has.

And this was pointed out time and time again. Even the rune traps in their throne room was Redcloak's idea.


He's content with believing the leash he has on Redcloak and MitD is tight enough to keep them docile.

To be more specific here, he actually doesn't think his leash on Redcloak is strong enough which is exactly why he is taking many steps to compensate. He sent Tsukiko to find out if Redcloak is hiding something in the ritual (which is true).

He specifically took the holy symbol away from him because he doesn't trust him with it (and he's right about that).

Even in start of darkness

He not only tests Redcloak with the killing of his brother, but he also makes sure to put the geas on the monster in the dark.




We know Redcloak is subtly manipulating him into doing some things he wants, although that little dynamic has been disturbed by V's attack and the subsequent loss of his phylactery. Dunno how much he's wizened up to Redcloak's plans, but it's a fair guess that the last book will handle all those plot points.
My guess is that Xykon is extremely suspicious especially because of Tsukiko's death.


In SoD he admits that he gets bored easily and has no interest in strategy or tactics or contingency planning. But that's okay because "there's always a level of force against which no tactics can succeed".
It's also pretty much a given after the strategy session with Redcloak before the azure city battle.


He'll probably say his biggest weakness is minions that let him down, like how Redcloak nearly cost him his phylactery.

Forget that... There was that gate of Lirian that "somehow" blew up.



His biggest weakness is minions that will let him down, like MitD persuading him to leave the Order alone.
Or failing to kill them when he could, when Belkar and Haley grabbed Roy's body after the battle.

V would still cast the familicide but Roy wouldn't be there to destroy Girard's gate.

[Snails]

Well the way I see that he sees it, the biggest vulnerability in his scheme that doesn't revolve around D&D stats - because yeah, that monk Belkar replaced in Origin of PCs would have done more damage to Xykon on the dragon than Roy, but that's not interesting - is he has to rely on people who aren't necessarily 100% aligned with him. He kinda sees the danger with Redcloak, active schemer, but MitD developing a mind of his own seems to have flown under his radar.

Okay, that is a good point.

As I see it, Xykon is working on the assumption that the MitD is unreliable for various reasons, but he does sometimes listen while not trusting. Xykon probably rates this lack of reliability as a random and unfocused thing that washes out in the end.

That the MitD might have a personal agenda and has figured out how to manipulate Xykon at times, in spite of not being trusted, that has definitely "flown under his radar".

Xykon likes to play the fool to encourage people to underestimate him. Unfortunately for him, he has completely underestimated Redcloak and MitD.

[renovator]

Okay, that is a good point.

As I see it, Xykon is working on the assumption that the MitD is unreliable for various reasons, but he does sometimes listen while not trusting. Xykon probably rates this lack of reliability as a random and unfocused thing that washes out in the end

On the other hand if Xykon respects only raw power, then the MitD must have raw power that fixes a flaw or solves a problem, Iit must also be of such power that it justifies his disobedience/his inability to be punished and his loss of memory/childishness.

[Mordaedil]

Xykon has one singular weakness.

He just can't enjoy a bad cup of coffee anymore.

[renovator]

Xykon has one singular weakness.

He just can't enjoy a bad cup of coffee anymore.

So MitD is a barista ? (so the M in MitD stands for Melbourne or Maybe monster in the Dark Roast ?)
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/best-coffee-cities/index.html

[dps]

Xykon has one singular weakness.

He just can't enjoy a bad cup of coffee anymore.

Dang it! That was my answer as soon as I saw the thread title.

[Goblin_Priest]

Okay, that is a good point.

As I see it, Xykon is working on the assumption that the MitD is unreliable for various reasons, but he does sometimes listen while not trusting. Xykon probably rates this lack of reliability as a random and unfocused thing that washes out in the end.

That the MitD might have a personal agenda and has figured out how to manipulate Xykon at times, in spite of not being trusted, that has definitely "flown under his radar".

Xykon likes to play the fool to encourage people to underestimate him. Unfortunately for him, he has completely underestimated Redcloak and MitD.

He likes to play the fool so much and does it so well that it's really hard to know how much who is fooling who.

Case in point, Redcloak thinks he has Xykon fooled regarding the phylactery. But I'm betting quatloos Xykon knows about it.

[martianmister]

Having no way to entertain himself other than killing and hurting other people. He had nothing else, no sex, no coffee, no meals, nothing he used to enjoy in his previous life.

[Emanick]

Having no way to entertain himself other than killing and hurting other people. He had nothing else, no sex, no coffee, no meals, nothing he used to enjoy in his previous life.

This is sort of a tangent, but I've never understood why he doesn't research a spell that could restore his sense of taste, or at least try polymorphing himself into a human to regain said ability for a while.

[Resileaf]

This is sort of a tangent, but I've never understood why he doesn't research a spell that could restore his sense of taste, or at least try polymorphing himself into a human to regain said ability for a while.

Undead are immune to polymorph spells.

[Emanick]

Undead are immune to polymorph spells.

As an 8th level spell, this might prove more difficult for him to learn, but what about Polymorph Any Object? It doesn't seem to have the same limitations that polymorph does, since it can also target objects and has a different target than Polymorph does. The majority of links I can find online on the subject seem to back this interpretation up.

[Resileaf]

As an 8th level spell, this might prove more difficult for him to learn, but what about Polymorph Any Object? It doesn't seem to have the same limitations that polymorph does, since it can also target objects and has a different target than Polymorph does. The majority of links I can find online on the subject seem to back this interpretation up.

Well undead traits do say that as long as the spell can affect objects, it would work on them. But as Xykon is a sorcerer, if he doesn't already know the spell, he can't learn it until he levels up, which he could do now that he's fighting stuff that gives him XP, but it probably never dawned on him that it might be possible.
Would be my theory anyway.

[SlashDash]

Having no way to entertain himself other than killing and hurting other people. He had nothing else, no sex, no coffee, no meals, nothing he used to enjoy in his previous life.

Not to go all R rated here... But why is that exactly?

Tsukiko clearly was making moves on him and he said he wasn't a "biophiliac", which sure it was a joke (and a hilarious one at that) but it does seem to imply that some undead to have the... dance with no pants alongside living beings.

[Snails]

He likes to play the fool so much and does it so well that it's really hard to know how much who is fooling who.

Case in point, Redcloak thinks he has Xykon fooled regarding the phylactery. But I'm betting quatloos Xykon knows about it.

Oh! I need to win back some quatloos I owe!

I will bet 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).

Peelee: Can you help us out here with the betting board? ;)

[martianmister]

Not to go all R rated here... But why is that exactly?

Tsukiko clearly was making moves on him and he said he wasn't a "biophiliac", which sure it was a joke (and a hilarious one at that) but it does seem to imply that some undead to have the... dance with no pants alongside living beings.

Lack of penis is a big problem. I'm not sure what Tsukiko was expecting from Xykon, but it's probably not something he'd like.

[Jack Frost]

As an 8th level spell, this might prove more difficult for him to learn, but what about Polymorph Any Object? It doesn't seem to have the same limitations that polymorph does, since it can also target objects and has a different target than Polymorph does. The majority of links I can find online on the subject seem to back this interpretation up.

Lichs are immune to polymorph effects.

[hamishspence]

Lichs are immune to polymorph effects.

Only when cast by others:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm
Immunities (Ex)
Liches have immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph (though they can use polymorph effects on themselves), and mind-affecting attacks.

[Goblin_Priest]

Oh! I need to win back some quatloos I owe!

I will bet 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).

Peelee: Can you help us out here with the betting board? ;)

You are ON! ;)

[SlashDash]

Lack of penis is a big problem. I'm not sure what Tsukiko was expecting from Xykon, but it's probably not something he'd like.

He seems to be able to speak without having any lounges either. He drank a coffee that somehow didn't spill on the floor despite him not having any skin or internal organ.



I don't think it's particular stretching to think what he might be able to do physically despite not having a particular set of organs.

[Emanick]

He seems to be able to speak without having any lounges either. He drank a coffee that somehow didn't spill on the floor despite him not having any skin or internal organ.



I don't think it's particular stretching to think what he might be able to do physically despite not having a particular set of organs.

I thought the coffee was shown spilling out of his bones.

[martianmister]

He seems to be able to speak without having any lounges either. He drank a coffee that somehow didn't spill on the floor despite him not having any skin or internal organ.

But it did spill on the floor. :smallconfused:


I don't think it's particular stretching to think what he might be able to do physically despite not having a particular set of organs.

But how? :smallredface:

[Goblin_Priest]

But how? :smallredface:

He doesn't need a boner to bone her.

Oh god, I feel so filthy.

[CJG]

But how? :smallredface:

Your lack of imagination is...unfortunate.

Also, it depends on what the meaning of “is” is ;)

[Seward]

Given that Tsukiko did *something* with a Crypt Fiend, I'm pretty sure that the fact that Xykon isn't incorporeal is sufficient to have allowed her to work out something she wanted to do with him too.

She'll need to cast freedom of movement first though. Paralyzing touch and all.

[martianmister]

But we're talking about Xykon's sexual needs, not Tsukiko's.

[Emanick]

But we're talking about Xykon's sexual needs, not Tsukiko's.

Looks to me like we’re discussing the logistics of necrophilia more than anyone’s sexual needs.

(Did I think I would be writing a sentence like that today when I woke up in the morning? No.)

[Resileaf]

This thread has gone in a really weird direction. :smallconfused:

[martianmister]

Looks to me like we’re discussing the logistics of necrophilia more than anyone’s sexual needs.

Well, thread's name is "What does Xykon see as his flaw or missing skill?"

[Emanick]

Well, thread's name is "What does Xykon see as his flaw or missing skill?"

Oh, I misunderstood you, sorry. I thought you were pointing out that we were focusing on a man's sexual needs rather than a woman's, in line with sexist, male-centric traditions. Sounds like I read a lot into your statement that wasn't there. :smalltongue:

[martianmister]

Oh, I misunderstood you, sorry. I thought you were pointing out that we were focusing on a man's sexual needs rather than a woman's, in line with sexist, male-centric traditions. Sounds like I read a lot into your statement that wasn't there. :smalltongue:

Um, what? :smallconfused:

[Dr.Zero]

But how? :smallredface:

For physical interactions, there are two canonic words, used by a demon cockroach, which reply to your question. I might state them, but I will let you find them (mostly because I feel a bit embarassed, I admit it :smallredface:).

If your question is about Xykon needing that kind (or any other kind) of sexual interaction or him finding it pleasurable, probably the reply is that he is not interested. He clearly shows no interest in Tsukiko, anyway, and, according to Belkar's comments, she must not on the ugly side.
If we want to dwell on it, we might hypothesize that lacking all the interested organs (both the ones interested by the pleasurable effects of the sexual acts and the ones which produce hormones) he is like one that has been both physically and chemically castrated.

Regarding the original OP questions, I suppose he feels he is simply lacking more power.
I know, he never said something like that, acting always like he is incredible powerful. And he is, indeed, incredibly powerful, as said by Synesthesy, maybe one of the most powerful character in the comic (hell, he did win against an almost-gestalt formed by one medium to high and two epic level casters, after all), deity aside.
Nonetheless the whole plot exists because he wants the McGuffin to be even more powerful.

I doubt, anyway, that he will ever reply (or think) about his interest in the McGuffin: "Eh, I lack power."
But something on the line: "Power is never enough" seems to be a totally possible rationalization of the same concept, for him.

[Caerulea]

Xykon states that he doesn't care about sex in SoD:

:redcloak:
You would become a skeleton though, which means you would lose certain, uh, fleshy parts. If you know what I mean
:xykon:
Bah, it hasn't moved on its own in 16 years, no great loss


I think he sees his phylactery as his greatest weakness. The only time he is actually worried is when there is a possibility that he could die. He tries to flee from Soon after Soon reveals he knows how to kill him permanently, and freaks out when Blackwing almost drops the phylactery in the rift.

[martianmister]

Xykon states that he doesn't care about sex in SoD:

:redcloak:
:xykon:


He was clearly interested in that waitress though.

[Caerulea]

He was clearly interested in that waitress though.

True. I saw that more of an appreciative way rather than any actual desire.
He does say that he would be interested if he was 50 years younger before Right-eye interrupts.
Also, that was 30 years before the comic started and since then he said what I quoted above.