How to indicate to players that enemies aren't a real threat?

[endertech74]

I ended my last session with my players entering a room and summoning 5 creatures by 'accident'. The room is meant to be a test to see if they're willing to abide by the rooms rule, which was stated on a plaque they read that basically said don't be violent here. They don't know it yet, but the door to the room will also shut once the encounter begins.

I want a few things to have happened at the conclusion of the encounter. I need to figure out:

A) How the creatures don't actually harm the players, whether they're illusions, or aren't actually attacking them, or something else.

B) How the players can spend some of their resources, but not many. The BBEG fight is in the next room and they don't really have the opportunity to rest beforehand.

C) How, besides the plaque that they already read, for them to determine that they're not supposed to fight the creatures, but instead offer no aggression.

D) If they do try to fight the creatures, some way to de-escalate the encounter without just having the baddies pop out of existence or something the first time they're hit.

My first thought was to just give an indication that something seems different about the way they move to attack you. The players are friends that will, unfortunately, pick up on it right away if I say something like "the creatures look like something may be off" or "their attacks hurt but don't seem to damage you".

Thanks in advance!

[Sirithhyando]

A) How the creatures don't actually harm the players, whether they're illusions, or aren't actually attacking them, or something else.

B) How the players can spend some of their resources, but not many. The BBEG fight is in the next room and they don't really have the opportunity to rest beforehand.

C) How, besides the plaque that they already read, for them to determine that they're not supposed to fight the creatures, but instead offer no aggression.

D) If they do try to fight the creatures, some way to de-escalate the encounter without just having the baddies pop out of existence or something the first time they're hit.


I have strange idea that could be funny. Have the creatures be visibly elderly creatures. They're summoned, playing old people game.
Let them offer the players to join them in the game.

Could be fun to see the players reaction. :smallbiggrin:

[VoxRationis]

Is there a particular reason why the summoned creatures simply not attacking is insufficient? Or are you planning on putting them in a no-win situation where they're forced to defend themselves from attackers but are punished for it?

[Man_Over_Game]

That gives me a few good ideas. When you say the attack hits, don't say how much damage it does. Instead have the player roll some kind of save, like a wisdom save vs fear. The creatures only become tangible upon being struck. Otherwise, they stay ethereal and try to scare enemies away. The players are expecting an attack, so it should have some kind of consequence, otherwise they'll know something fishy is going on.

Pulling at the heartstrings is a good way to slow some players down. It's not just a pack of creatures, but a family. Make a few young'ins in the corner that the Alpha is clearly guarding. When things get dangerous, they prioritize the cubs vs combat, leaving the door easily accessible. You could also make them a bit cowardly, backing away from the players as they fight (could add it in as a monster feature, move 10 feet without provoking after attacking), and in doing so, show they only attack when a player is adjacent to them.

If you want something that only appears hostile, you should show there's something off about it, like mention it has no shadow. You can also just fudge the stats. No matter what rolls on the dice, you never say they attack with more than an 11 to hit.

[endertech74]

Is there a particular reason why the summoned creatures simply not attacking is insufficient? Or are you planning on putting them in a no-win situation where they're forced to defend themselves from attackers but are punished for it?

Mostly because that feels too easy, I think. Their first inclination probably will be to wait and see what happens, but that feels almost a little meta? Like, yeah, they're in a temple of non-violence, but they've already killed stuff here, so why are they stopping now?

The more I think about it the more I feel I may have painted myself into a corner.

[endertech74]

That gives me a few good ideas. When you say the attack hits, don't say how much damage it does. Instead have the player roll some kind of save, like a wisdom save vs fear. The creatures only become tangible upon being struck. Otherwise, they stay ethereal and try to scare enemies away. The players are expecting an attack, so it should have some kind of consequence, otherwise they'll know something fishy is going on.

Pulling at the heartstrings is a good way to slow some players down. It's not just a pack of creatures, but a family. Make a few young'ins in the corner that the Alpha is clearly guarding. When things get dangerous, they prioritize the cubs vs combat, leaving the door easily accessible. You could also make them a bit cowardly, backing away from the players as they fight (could add it in as a monster feature, move 10 feet without provoking after attacking), and in doing so, show they only attack when a player is adjacent to them.

If you want something that only appears hostile, you should show there's something off about it, like mention it has no shadow. You can also just fudge the stats. No matter what rolls on the dice, you never say they attack with more than an 11 to hit.

So the 'their attack misses' thing was one of my first ideas, and works pretty well. What would be a good follow up condition to 'succeeding' at this room? I'm leaning towards saying they 'fail' if they attack the creatures enough times or something, but struggling to think of a good win-condition other than just standing their not hitting the creatures, since it feels like it may be a little meta-game-y (see my response to the other post). I just want it to feel like it has a little more payoff than 'oh, they figured it out. just don't hit the baddies and you win'

[Man_Over_Game]

In the end, what we're looking at is an elaborate trap.

What's the reward for successfully avoiding a pit trap?
You don't spend unneeded resources trying to survive the event, you don't run out of time on completing a certain task, you leave the trap for someone else to fall into.

The first one is always applicable to any situation. The second is circumstantial based on outside factors related to quests/dungeons/other traps.

As for the third, since the BBEG is up next, and the players already broke the code of pacifism in this temple, maybe he calls for some goons who run into the same trap the players did? If the players leave the illusionary monsters alive by not fighting, they will still be there to separate the BBEG from his group, keeping them from joining the fight a number of rounds equal to the number of creatures left alive (so if there's 5 creatures, goons come in on round 5)

[endertech74]

In the end, what we're looking at is an elaborate trap.

What's the reward for successfully avoiding a pit trap?
You don't spend unneeded resources trying to survive the event, you don't run out of time on completing a certain task, you leave the trap for someone else to fall into.

The first one is always applicable to any situation. The second is circumstantial based on outside factors related to quests/dungeons/other traps.

As for the third, since the BBEG is up next, and the players already broke the code of pacifism in this temple, maybe he calls for some goons who run into the same trap the players did? If the players leave the illusionary monsters alive by not fighting, they will still be there to separate the BBEG from his group, keeping them from joining the fight a number of rounds equal to the number of creatures left alive (so if there's 5 creatures, goons come in on round 5)

Thanks! Yeah, puzzle/trap room.

I'm less worried about a reward, since I have some ideas for that, but more struggling with WHAT makes them win? Just sitting around not attacking? Finding a way out of the shut room? Dropping their weapons. Actually, dropping their weapons could work... maybe the baddies look angrily at their weapons?

[Man_Over_Game]

Here's something I was thinking of that I think would be really cool:


Scattered along the floor are dozens of swords, belts, sheathes, and other tools of war. All drawn weapons feel hot in the room, until it's effectively a Heat Metal spell on all drawn weapons (even wooden ones, the "heat" is strictly illusionary (but real) damage). Weapons not drawn (like in sheathes) are cool to the touch. Do not explicitly mention it, but none of the swords on the floor are in a sheathe.

Both exits are blocked, both with an opaque Wall of Force, with an imposing statue on a wall.

The statue shows a dwarven monk in front of an anvil that has a 3 inch wide divide right down the middle, as if chopped out of the anvil. Light seems to shine brightly on the anvil. The dwarf is holding a hammer, ruby red (colored like Adamantine), with both hands, as if about to strike the anvil.

Illusionary monsters prowl the outside of the room. They hiss and attack, but all attacks they make only have an 11 to hit, unless they are struck, which makes them physical for 1 round. During the time they're physical, they hit hard, hit once, and cower away to become ethereal again. If the monsters are not struck for 10 straight minutes, they go to sleep amidst the weapons, and the way back opens back up (but not the way forward). If the players try to advance and solve the puzzle again, they wake back up and the door closes again.


To open the doors, a weapon, sheathed, must be placed on the divided anvil. The statue swings down, sunders the sword, the illusions, and the Wall of Force with it. All of the weapons on the floor disappear, as do the monsters. If a player's real weapon was placed on the anvil, it lays on the anvil undamaged. If an unsheathed sword is placed, the light causes the edge of the sword to shine brightly, almost blindingly so (you could make it blinding if you wanted to), and the doors do not open. The weapons on the floor appear and act real until they leave the puzzle room or until the puzzle is completed.

Slaying all of the creatures, or offering a sheathed weapon to sunder, both are valid ways to exit the room, but the creatures hit hard when they're physical, and will frustrate the players. If two are slain, the others will turn physical and fight.

Murals on the wall show rough hints as to these particular events.

Written on the hammerhead in Dwarvish: "Peace, not by force, but by choice."

[Bloodcloud]

So, the creature demand the players drop theirweapons. They are, for now, illusory. Players can either 1. comply and drop their weapon, which trigger the illusions disapearring an the door to open. 2. Diplomacy their way into the creatures stopping their demands, opening the door. 3. Players refuse and fight. Creatures become corpereal and attack. Each time the players kill one, a new one spawn, until they die or stop fighting and drop their weapons.

Mind**** option: the creatures attack and miss repeatedly, but when the player attack they get a counter attack that hit and deal heavy damage. The players attack of course deal little damage, and should they kill one a new one spawns. If the monster deal no damage for, 1-3 round, they unspawn. Mention they appear to be raging.

[willdaBEAST]

One thing I would be wary about is that the players read the plaque, entered the room and the session ended. I think there's a real risk of the plaque being forgotten.

As far as making non-violent creatures appear dangerous, you could have them channeling some kind of ritual with colorful magic whirling around them.

Hitting them could be instantly reflected upon the attacker like Bloodcloud suggested.

As a hint you could have them heavily relying on passive abilities.

[Laserlight]

One thing I would be wary about is that the players read the plaque, entered the room and the session ended. I think there's a real risk of the plaque being forgotten.

You always start with a recap. "Last week, the party found this room, and read the plaque at the door, which said Dudes, don't be violent here. Now you're standing at the door. What do you do?"

As a player, I always take notes and post a "diary entry" or "report" or something, so the DM can see what clues we picked up on, and also so we can go back four months later and say "Okay, when we were heading toward the hill giants, we talked with...let's see...THAT guy. We go there now and claim our reward."

[endertech74]

You always start with a recap. "Last week, the party found this room, and read the plaque at the door, which said Dudes, don't be violent here. Now you're standing at the door. What do you do?"

As a player, I always take notes and post a "diary entry" or "report" or something, so the DM can see what clues we picked up on, and also so we can go back four months later and say "Okay, when we were heading toward the hill giants, we talked with...let's see...THAT guy. We go there now and claim our reward."

Yeah, I'll definitely start with the recap of the plaque. I have some leeway with the creatures' appearance too.

I think what I'm leaning towards is they don't do physical damage but mental/stat drain or something, which mitigates the issue of using their resources too much. Combine that with the reflecting attacks could work well.

Maybe to adapt Man_Over_Game's idea, when the players inevitably draw their weapons, THAT'S what makes the creatures aggressive. Like they scream AT the weapons or something. Maybe even attack the weapons. And the 'win' condition is they drop all their weapons or something.

[Asmotherion]

Have 2 real guys, disguised via Disguise Self into Drow Elves.

Drow use Mirror Image, and there are 8 Drow in the Room.

They have infiltrated the enemy's base (the boss the PCs are about to fight) under this Disguise, and do not want to fight the players as they are secretly supporting the same cause. However, the players will see 8 Drow Elves of ill repute (reguardless of the 2 illusionist's original race). They will initially try to reason with them, but if negotiations fail, they will fight. At the same time, the illusionists need to keep appearances, as they don't know if they're being watched via Scrying Spells, and don't want to reveal that they are not actually Drow.

How does that sound?

[endertech74]

Have 2 real guys, disguised via Disguise Self into Drow Elves.

Drow use Mirror Image, and there are 8 Drow in the Room.

They have infiltrated the enemy's base (the boss the PCs are about to fight) under this Disguise, and do not want to fight the players as they are secretly supporting the same cause. However, the players will see 8 Drow Elves of ill repute (reguardless of the 2 illusionist's original race). They will initially try to reason with them, but if negotiations fail, they will fight. At the same time, the illusionists need to keep appearances, as they don't know if they're being watched via Scrying Spells, and don't want to reveal that they are not actually Drow.

How does that sound?

So originally i was trying to leave details out in case they ended up on this forum, but whatever... The problem is they were already described as spectre-like creatures. The creatures are actually Shadows that rose out of these tomb effigies, though I could retcon that a little if I really needed to.

[SirGraystone]

I would have the shadow creatures move toward the players looking menacing, ask them to roll initiative, tell them they won and to go first. If they attacks at the end of the round a deep voice will says "You have fails this test"

[DMThac0]

As the players are going to face the BBEG and you want them to retain some/most of their resources why not have a really annoying setup that works against them.

The recap covers them looking at the plaque, they see the spectral creatures rise from the tombs and take on whatever form you wish. As they step a little further into the room the weapons begin to appear on the floor and the illusory heat metal spell starts. As the players begin to try things out have a simple "reset" when they do something too aggressive, a weapon swing vs pushing someone out of the way.

DM: You read the plaque as it says ...., a number of forms emerge from effigies about the room and the floor seems to be littered with weapons. What do you do?
***Players do something aggressive***
DM: You read the plaque as it says ...., a number of forms emerge from effigies about the room and the floor seems to be littered with weapons. What do you do?

[mephnick]

Have them be insubstantial illusions that pop out of existence when damaged, but curse whoever kills them with a penalty of some kind that will weaken them for the boss encounter.

Every time they kill one have them make a Wisdom save or take damage and a penalty, but make it obvious that it's their aggression that triggered the effect.

It's kind of a hard one to pull off because players are trained to kill things, hopefully the plaque is enough but they might get jumpy.

[Greywander]

Guys, I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.


In the end, what we're looking at is an elaborate trap.

What's the reward for successfully avoiding a pit trap?
You don't spend unneeded resources trying to survive the event, you don't run out of time on completing a certain task, you leave the trap for someone else to fall into.

A) How the creatures don't actually harm the players, whether they're illusions, or aren't actually attacking them, or something else.

B) How the players can spend some of their resources, but not many. The BBEG fight is in the next room and they don't really have the opportunity to rest beforehand.

C) How, besides the plaque that they already read, for them to determine that they're not supposed to fight the creatures, but instead offer no aggression.

D) If they do try to fight the creatures, some way to de-escalate the encounter without just having the baddies pop out of existence or something the first time they're hit.
The fight simply does not end until the players stop fighting. That's it. If they burn any resources during the fight, they won't have them for the BBEG. They can't die, nor can they actually fail. They just waste resources if they take too long to catch on.

I would also do as others have suggested: make all of the specters' attacks miss, but when hit they'll make a counter-attack that can do real damage. This makes them seem actually dangerous, since they really are hitting and doing damage, while also pushing the party toward not attacking if they catch on to what's going on.

I wouldn't be too obvious about the plaque. You might mention that they read a plaque, but don't remind them what it said unless they take the initiative to ask you.

If they go for a few rounds (three, maybe) without showing aggression, the shades will stop fake-attacking, maybe give them a nod, sink back into wherever they came from, and the doors will unlock. Zelda jingle optional.

[solidork]

You could have the creatures fight each other (or wanting to fight each other) and have the objective be stopping them from doing that. Even if you do go with some of the other suggestions, I'd include some kind of arbiter (somehow obviously aligned with the non-violent god) that doesn't get directly involved but just watches and maybe takes notes on what the players do to make it clear that they are being judged.

[No brains]

Maybe the door out of the room takes a password and the monsters will only tell the players if they chill out for a few rounds. The password is, "I'm sorry for going full murderhobo."