Variant rule idea: Warrior, a simpler Fighter

[MaxWilson]

Here's a notion designed to appeal to those who want a simple warrior without a lot of bells and whistles:

Warrior is a class with d10 HP and full weapon/armor proficiency, with same skill proficiencies as Fighter.

You get:

(1) One Fighting Style at level 1.
(2) ASIs at levels 4, 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, 19 just like a Fighter.
(3) At level 5, 10, 15, and 20 you get a level of Extra Attack and an extra Fighting Style.
(4) At level 11, you get +2 to all saving throws.

That's it. That's the whole class. No subclasses, no per-short-rest resources to recharge. At level 20 you have five Fighting Styles and five attacks per round with any weapon, and +2 to all saves, and that's all.

That's all I have to say (I have no agenda, I'm just spitballing) but if you have an opinion to share now go right ahead.

[GlenSmash!]

I'd play it.

Edit: at least once anyway.

Further edit: It might do to space out the +2s to help fill in some dead levels, rather than just all at once.

[mephnick]

I'm all for simplicity, but I think you'd need a bit more to reach the balance point.

A straight up bonus to physical skills or something.

[Lunali]

I'm all for simplicity, but I think you'd need a bit more to reach the balance point.

A straight up bonus to physical skills or something.

How about including access to the otherwise unbalanced UA fighting styles? (while not allowing them to fighter/ranger)

[MaxWilson]

Hi @GlenSmash,


Further edit: It might do to space out the +2s to help fill in some dead levels, rather than just all at once.

Which levels feel the most dead to you? Maybe 7,9,13,17,18? Would the total package feel unsatisfying at those levels, or would you just not look forward to the level-up? (Maybe I'm atypical, but not having to care much about specific level breakpoints is sort of the whole reason why I'd be playing the simple Warrior in the first place.)

What would you advise as the right spacing?

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Hi @mephnick,


I'm all for simplicity, but I think you'd need a bit more to reach the balance point.

A straight up bonus to physical skills or something.

Do you have any advice for what might be appropriate?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'm all for simplicity, but I think you'd need a bit more to reach the balance point.

A straight up bonus to physical skills or something.
I'm inclined to agree with this. Honestly, I'd consider dropping Fighting Styles altogether, to remove even the vestiges of conditional modifiers.

Maybe something more like.

Basic Features: d12 HD; otherwise normal Fighter stuff.
Level 1: Add your Proficiency with all Str, Dex, and Con checks, stacking with normal proficiency.
Level 2: +1 bonus to attack, damage, and armor class. Maybe toss in the TWF fighting style benefits.
Levels 3, 7, 11, 17: +1 to all saves (stacking)
Level 13: Another +1 AC

[GlenSmash!]

Hi @GlenSmash,



Which levels feel the most dead to you? Maybe 7,9,13,17,18? Would the total package feel unsatisfying at those levels, or would you just not look forward to the level-up? (Maybe I'm atypical, but not having to care much about specific level breakpoints is sort of the whole reason why I'd be playing the simple Warrior in the first place.)

What would you advise as the right spacing?

2 and 3 were the most glaring of dead levels to me. That's when other classes are getting core stuff that defines the class.

If it was worked where every level gave something new albeit passive I'd think you pretty much have it nailed.

[MaxWilson]

I'm inclined to agree with this. Honestly, I'd consider dropping Fighting Styles altogether, to remove even the vestiges of conditional modifiers.

Maybe something more like.

Basic Features: d12 HD; otherwise normal Fighter stuff.
Level 1: Add your Proficiency with all Str, Dex, and Con checks, stacking with normal proficiency.
Level 2: +1 bonus to attack, damage, and armor class. Maybe toss in the TWF fighting style benefits.
Levels 3, 7, 11, 17: +1 to all saves (stacking)
Level 13: Another +1 AC


I like it. Would play.

[Mikal]

Wow. Something more bland and boring than champion. Kudos

[ProsecutorGodot]

Wow. Something more bland and boring than champion. Kudos

This would be fantastic for people who just want to come to a table to roll dice, socialize and kill some goblins. Bland perhaps, but "boring" is subjective.

It would also be a pretty useful tool for introducing new players to the basics without bogging them down with class features. I personally like the idea, less complex characters make the game move at a faster pace even at the best managed tables.

[Kane0]

Might want to throw in a few skill/tool proficiencies.

[Vogie]

A Dual-wielding warrior gets 6 attacks/ turn? Sure, I'd do it, at least once.

Yeah, I'd probably add a couple feats or new fighting styles

Deadshot: Weapons with the Thrown property can be drawn like ammunition. Ranges are increased by 50% for thrown and ranged weapons
Shield Master: Allies within 5 feet of you benefit from your shield bonus to their armor class. Your shield can be used as a weapon with a 1d4 damage die.
Mariner (UA): As long as you’re not wearing heavy armor, you gain a climbing and swimming speed equal to your walking speed, and gain +1 AC.

[MaxWilson]

Hi Vogie,

Thanks for the advice. I wanted to comment on one thing here:


Deadshot: Weapons with the Thrown property can be drawn like ammunition. *snip range boost*.

As far as I'm concerned this first part belongs in the base game rules. I wouldn't charge a feat for it. Drawing four darts is not more complicated than drawing and nocking four arrows and should not cost more object interactions.

In fact my personal ruling is that any object manipulation you've practiced extensively in connection with a specific action consumes at most one object interaction, which is why a spell caster can whip out a component pouch, grab a newt's eye, cast Hex, put the newt's eye back in the pouch, and store the pouch without consuming four object interactions in the process.

[Vogie]

As far as I'm concerned this first part belongs in the base game rules. I wouldn't charge a feat for it. Drawing four darts is not more complicated than drawing and nocking four arrows and should not cost more object interactions.

In fact my personal ruling is that any object manipulation you've practiced extensively in connection with a specific action consumes at most one object interaction, which is why a spell caster can whip out a component pouch, grab a newt's eye, cast Hex, put the newt's eye back in the pouch, and store the pouch without consuming four object interactions in the process.

I completely agree - I just figured a very baseline class would also want to have some additional options, and making a thrown-weapon fighting style as an option would be useful.

If that's already houseruled, maybe give other options to otherwise include thrown weapons in the mix

[MilkmanDanimal]

Decent enough with a d12 for hp, but why would you need a simpler fighter than Champion, where the "complexity" is "crit twice as often"? There's already a simpler fighter.

[CantigThimble]

Decent enough with a d12 for hp, but why would you need a simpler fighter than Champion, where the "complexity" is "crit twice as often"? There's already a simpler fighter.

Well, this version removes all resource management at all. No second wind, no action surge, no charges of indomitable etc.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Decent enough with a d12 for hp, but why would you need a simpler fighter than Champion, where the "complexity" is "crit twice as often"? There's already a simpler fighter.
There's is the note that this isn't even built around the Fighter Archetype, it's an even more simplified version of a martial class that gets numbers boosts and almost nothing else. Every level you gain is at most a +2 to some relevant stat (or a feat for those inclined to use them) and no resources to keep track of. Even Champion Fighters have to keep track of Second Wind, Indomitable, Action Surge and assuming they make to level 18, Regeneration is one of my most forgotten aspects when running or playing a game.

A class that just rolls their dice and adds numbers, no fancy abilities attached, would be appealing to a surprising amount of people I think.

[nickl_2000]

My only complaint is that there isn't a single non-combat/ribbon ability/bonus. You can easily add things in there that won't be as useful in combat but still end up simple in the "dead" levels.

For example,
-you get proficiency in a musical instrument
-you get proficiency in a single tool
-you get proficiency in an extra language
-Free skill proficiency
etc


All things that can fill in dead space, without making the class more powerful in combat. Plus it makes it a more dynamic class without adding complexity

[Georlik]

Has anyone suggested the "Armor Mastery" yet? Something like: wearing armor does not incur any penalties to stealth or movement speed. Nor does it provide any advantages on armor-specific spells (like shocking grasp) or maneuvers.
Obviously more useful for heavy armor though...

[Vogie]

Has anyone suggested the "Armor Mastery" yet? Something like: wearing armor does not incur any penalties to stealth or movement speed. Nor does it provide any advantages on armor-specific spells (like shocking grasp) or maneuvers.
Obviously more useful for heavy armor though...

Maybe just for medium armor?

[mephnick]

Heavy or Medium Armor Mastery feat built in to the class makes sense to me.

[djreynolds]

Here's a notion designed to appeal to those who want a simple warrior without a lot of bells and whistles:

Warrior is a class with d10 HP and full weapon/armor proficiency, with same skill proficiencies as Fighter.

You get:

(1) One Fighting Style at level 1.
(2) ASIs at levels 4, 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, 19 just like a Fighter.
(3) At level 5, 10, 15, and 20 you get a level of Extra Attack and an extra Fighting Style.
(4) At level 11, you get +2 to all saving throws.

That's it. That's the whole class. No subclasses, no per-short-rest resources to recharge. At level 20 you have five Fighting Styles and five attacks per round with any weapon, and +2 to all saves, and that's all.

That's all I have to say (I have no agenda, I'm just spitballing) but if you have an opinion to share now go right ahead.

Warrior subclass, that is good with all tactics. Get dueling, protection, archery, TWF, etc.

I like it.

[Angelalex242]

I'd give it the crit bonuses of the Champion, then call it good.

[No1ofIntrst]

1d10 hp
all weapons
all armor, and shields
athletics, acrobatics, and intimidation
con and str saves

lvl 1- fighting style
lvl 2- +1 attack damage and to hit
lvl 3- +1 ac
lvl 4- ASI
lvl 5- extra attack
lvl 6- crit on a 19 or 20
lvl 7- double proficiency in athletics, acrobatics and intimidation checks
lvl 8- ASI
lvl 9- +2 (total) attack damage,
lvl 10- 2 extra attacks
lvl 11- +2 to all saving throws
lvl 12- ASI
lvl 13- +2 (total) to AC
lvl 14- ASI
lvl 15- 3 extra attacks
lvl 16- ASI
lvl 17- +3 (total) attack damage
lvl 18- proficiency in all languages
lvl 19- ASI
lvl 20- 4 extra attacks