Highest tier full BAB 0-20 builds?

[gomipile]

I'm fairly familiar with most or all of the full BAB base classes, but I'm not as confident in my knowledge of prestige classes or the synergy of dips between these base classes.

So, how versatile can you make a character while retaining full BAB all the way from level one to twenty? I'm hoping that the best suggestions don't have any long doldrums while leveling. That is, I'd like them to be about as relevant to a tier 3-ish party of their level at every level, within reason. I suppose starting off with Warblade and picking up low level maneuvers that are useful at all levels would help accomplish that, but I'm looking for other's suggestions.

[MeimuHakurei]

Warblade. Get a good selection of Manuevers to be agile (Tiger Claw), precise (Diamond Mind), steadfast (Stone Dragon), durable (Iron Heart) or supportive (White Raven), recharge them easy, have a number of Int synergies (also meaning more skills) and still benefit from a couple bonus combat feats. Doesn't even require any multiclassing/PrCs to be effective, Warblade 20 is a perfectly good Tier 3 build.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If you refuse to lose even a single point of BAB then the only answer that comes to mind is a paladin/ crusader/ ruby knight vindicator. The synergy between those classes is unreal as long as you pick up battle blessing.

[gomipile]

If you refuse to lose even a single point of BAB then the only answer that comes to mind is a paladin/ crusader/ ruby knight vindicator. The synergy between those classes is unreal as long as you pick up battle blessing.

Not a bad suggestion based on my OP. Unfortunately, it will only be useful for people reading this thread other than me. I can't use Paladin, or any class that can "fall" and lose class features thereby.

I wasn't thinking of that when making the thread, but there it is.

Thanks for the contribution, though.

[DeTess]

Not a bad suggestion based on my OP. Unfortunately, it will only be useful for people reading this thread other than me. I can't use Paladin, or any class that can "fall" and lose class features thereby.

I wasn't thinking of that when making the thread, but there it is.

Thanks for the contribution, though.

If you can find a full BaB class that gives you 1st level divine spellcasting, you can go into knight of the raven to get turn undead to qualify for Ruby knight vindicator. If you can use mystic ranger you could do something like mystic ranger 2/crusader 2/knight of the raven3/RKV X.

[Eldan]

Hm. Is there any full BAB class that gives psionics? Except Slayer? I don't think there's any base classes to start the progression.

Duskblade with Arcane Disciple is probably a good start. I'm sure there's more ways to expand your spell list without giving up BAB. Rainbow Servant and Sand Shaper both lose BAB, sadly.

[Khedrac]

A straight Duskblade 20 is not a bad character either. Yes, it isn't usually worth taking duskblade all the way to 20, but it is still a fair character.

[Eldan]

Oh, it's certainly fair, just not very versatile. The Duskblade spell list is exceedingly focused on one thing.

[noob]

Not a bad suggestion based on my OP. Unfortunately, it will only be useful for people reading this thread other than me. I can't use Paladin, or any class that can "fall" and lose class features thereby.

I wasn't thinking of that when making the thread, but there it is.

Thanks for the contribution, though.

You might try some full bab progressing prc such as holy liberator or runescarred berseker if you consider runes counts as spellcasting.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Crusader 6/Warrior Skald 1-2/Crusader 13-12
With Song of the White Raven is really nice.
I like to take Preform(Battle Cry) for it.

You may want to get Dragonfire Inspiration.

It is a great support.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Just use divine power, Persisted if you have to. Doesn't matter what class you are; there are no drawbacks aside from whatever build resources you use to get there. Note that this gives you more BAB even into epic, which stacks with epic attack bonus, even if it's normally not possible.

[Sto]

Crusader 20 will never be a terrible class. I don't have my books on me at the moment, but couldn't you do Warblade/Duskblade/Jade Phoenix Mage and keep full BAB?

[ben-zayb]

Isn't Wild Shape Ranger Tier 3 even without MoMF? If so, then that and maybe add Mystic Ranger on top of it. You get full bab, 6+INT skill points, spells, and wild shape.

Duskblade / Warblade / Jade Phoenix Mage could be T3-4. You get full BAB, maneuvers, and spells.

[Eldan]

Isn't Jade Phoenix Mage a bit suboptimal for Duskblades? At least in that their channelled spells don't work with maneuvers? I mean, you could focus a bit more on buffs and boosts, but still.

[Cosi]

DMM Persistent divine power gives your Cleric full BAB.

A little less cheekily, I think Mystic Ranger is the way to go. Grab Sword of the Arcane Order (doable at 4th with the right race, IIRC), and you're basically a Sorcerer with less spell slots, better spell knowledge, and full BAB. I'm sure there are some PrCs you could go into that would be useful to finish up the build too. Maybe Swiftblade?

[Eldan]

A propos: why the heck do Duskblades not get haste.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A propos: why the heck do Duskblades not get haste.Because they're duskblades, and martial classes aren't allowed to have nice things.

[sleepyphoenixx]

A propos: why the heck do Duskblades not get haste.

Because you can get Boots of Speed and activate Haste as a free action instead of casting it in combat as a standard.

[Maat Mons]

Hm. Is there any full BAB class that gives psionics? Except Slayer? I don't think there's any base classes to start the progression.

War Mind is a full-base-attack-bonus prestige class that gets up to 5th-level powers from the psychic warrior list. If you add in Slayer, I assume you can progress manifester level beyond 10, even though you wouldn't gain higher-level powers. With Practiced Manifester, you'd be able to augment your powers almost as well as an actual psychic warrior, even though you would'nt have access to the 6th-level ones.

Should we tentatively say Something 5 / Warmind 6 / Slayer 9? Mind-affecting immunity and DR 2/- both seem like reasonable break points.




A propos: why the heck do Duskblades not get haste.

If you're looking to get into Swiftblade, I'm sure there's a way to add it to your spell list. If you can mix Pathfinder and 3.5, you could do the rather ridiculous combo of Mystical-Past-Life Samsaran and Trapsmith.

[Eldan]

Probably with Arcane Disciple. Time, maybe.

[Eldariel]

Warblade 6/Barbarian 1/Ranger 2/Fighter 1/Eternal Blade 10 is pretty good. Not as good as something with higher level spells, but decidedly not terrible. A generic Hulking Hurler build would also work - it can get to fairly high tier simply by gaining versatility from being able to blow up mountains and stuff.

That said, simple Wildshape Mystic Ranger 20 is indeed pretty darn solid. Add feats that enhance Wildshape and you're golden. The only ones that could actually hit Tier 2 would probably be the broken ones like Hulking Hurler though. That said, I'm not sure how good a Hurler you could build without spells/LA/etc.

[Kelb_Panthera]

In the same vein as my previous suggestion, you could do something like ranger 4/ knight of the Raven 3/crusader1/ ruby knight vindicator 10/ X 2. It's not quite as good as the paladin base but it's pretty solid if you can get around the fluff conflict between RKV and sword of the arcane order, with or without going mystic.

[Psyren]

Just use divine power, Persisted if you have to. Doesn't matter what class you are; there are no drawbacks aside from whatever build resources you use to get there. Note that this gives you more BAB even into epic, which stacks with epic attack bonus, even if it's normally not possible.

This; the answer is Cleric 20 given the stipulations in the OP.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

This; the answer is Cleric 20 given the stipulations in the OP.Well, if starting at or around 15, your best bet would be something like dread necromancer 5/rainbow servant 10. Spontaneously casting from the entire cleric list (which includes divine power) AND having built-in rebuke undead for Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) is pretty fantastic. Though being a technicolor disco ball of a necromancer might be a bit...unusual, to say the least.

[Psyren]

Well, if starting at or around 15, your best bet would be something like dread necromancer 5/rainbow servant 10. Spontaneously casting from the entire cleric list (which includes divine power) AND having built-in rebuke undead for Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) is pretty fantastic. Though being a technicolor disco ball of a necromancer might be a bit...unusual, to say the least.

I prefer Beguiler/RS for this reason myself; you can at least make a thematic connection with the various [pattern] spells, and a mechanical connection by saying you're shadow-miracling the entire Cleric list.

[ExLibrisMortis]

A little less cheekily, I think Mystic Ranger is the way to go. Grab Sword of the Arcane Order (doable at 4th with the right race, IIRC), and you're basically a Sorcerer with less spell slots, better spell knowledge, and full BAB. I'm sure there are some PrCs you could go into that would be useful to finish up the build too. Maybe Swiftblade?
This is what I was thinking, too. Mystic Ranger into Swiftblade is full base attack, 5th-level arcane and divine spells, and an extra standard per round. The ranger 4 Shooting Star substitution level adds +2 CL to your ranger spells, too. The only problem is that Mystic Rangers technically aren't arcane casters (even with SotAO), so you're not advancing caster level. On the upside, you don't need to advance spell slots, as they don't improve after MR 10. You might even dip a full-bab arcane caster, going MR 10/duskblade 1/swiftblade 9, to make use of the +arcane advancement. Maybe stack the caster levels, as with Theurgic Specialist?


You can try to finagle Fochlucan Lyrist onto a mystic ranger/duskblade theurge (or, if you're crazy, a hexblade/paladin).


War Mind with Expanded Knowledge stacked on top of Mystic Ranger with SotAO can make good use of Dual-Plane Summons, as well.

[noob]

This; the answer is Cleric 20 given the stipulations in the OP.

He wants full bab at level 1 too.
So you go cleric once you have an item of divine power or you go ur priest for saving time.
so you simply start as a fighting person up to the level needed for buying an item of divine power that lasts all day long(in fact you need approximately 57 days of divine power in magical items which costs 142500 gp under the form of epic scrolls made by someone with a cl of 1(entirely possible thanks to some prcs progressing spell slots and spells known but not caster level(costs only 8000 po for a continuous item of divine power))) and then restrain all your levels in ur priest levels and use dmm persist.

[Thurbane]

A straight Duskblade 20 is not a bad character either. Yes, it isn't usually worth taking duskblade all the way to 20, but it is still a fair character.

Could you make Duskbkade 20 more versatile by using feats and other methods to expand the spell list/spells known? Apprentice (Spellcaster) feat for UMD as a class skills?

The Bloodline Feats from Dragon Compendium would be a good starting point to expand spells known.

Arcane Disciple too, but creates MAD issues.

Mother Cyst from Libris Mortis.

Improved Oneiromancy from HoH.

Ring of Theurgy can be a nice item for this.

Drake Helm works this way too, from memory.

Impure Prince is full BAB, and a dip can add quite a few spells to your spell list (not spells known, though).

[Nifft]

Gestalt Mystic Wildshape Ranger // Artificer.

T0, broken like a Druid and a Wizard at the same time, and hella strong right from level 1.


Without Gestalt, I'd take a look at Warblade 5 / Warmind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) 10, then probably back to Warblade or Crusader.

With Practiced Manifester that's ML 14, one level 5 power, and as many extra powers as free feats can support -- for example, Hidden Talent is probably good for getting in to the class in the first place, plus it's one more off-list power.

[Maat Mons]

Without Gestalt, I'd take a look at Warblade 5 / Warmind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) 10, then probably back to Warblade or Crusader.

I was kind of thinking Paladin of Tyranny 3 / Moon-Warded Ranger 2 / Warmind 6 / Slayer 9. Get's Aura of Despair (-2 to enemy saves), Armor of the Senses (Wisdom to AC in light armor), and immunity to mind-affecting effects. Take Serenity to convert Divine Grace to wisdom, and take Practiced Manifester to get your manifester level up to 18.

[Nifft]

I was kind of thinking Paladin of Tyranny 3 / Moon-Warded Ranger 2 / Warmind 6 / Slayer 9. Get's Aura of Despair (-2 to enemy saves), Armor of the Senses (Wisdom to AC in light armor), and immunity to mind-affecting effects. Take Serenity to convert Divine Grace to wisdom, and take Practiced Manifester to get your manifester level up to 18.

It's questionable whether having more than 10 levels of Warmind manifesting does anything or not -- but the mind-affecting immunity is gold either way.

Hmm, in that direction, how about Mystic Wildshape Ranger 5 / Warmind 10 / Occult Slayer 5 -- wild shape, blank thoughts, manifesting, and 2nd level Ranger spells. Costs a feat for Knowledge skill access but the benefits are significant.