Planeshift out of a Portable Hole

[Dalebert]

What happens if you cast Planeshift to the ethereal plane from inside a PH? It's a "pocket dimension" which is for all practical purposes another plane but I envision it as like a bulge that's connected to our plane at the opening. Would you be in the save vicinity on the ethereal plane?

Here's why I ask. My necromancer has a portable hole and the means to planeshift. If I were wanting very badly to maintain concentration, say on Invulnerability on the tank in a boss fight, I might cast, hop down into the hole, then command a skeleton to fold the hole and put it in a chest. Another skeleton would have standing orders to follow me holding a small open chest and if anyone puts something in that chest, immediately shut and lock it.

I can't command the skeletons from the PH but I could count on party members to open the chest eventually and I could always planeshift twice to end up back in a nearby city on Prime Material, but it would be nice if I could go to the ethereal plane next round and watch in case I might decide to come back in the same vicinity.

[Vekon]

Invulnerability can only be cast on yourself. Also, at that level of play, wouldn't you be better off casting it on something a BBEG is more likely to try to target in a fight? A glass cannon, a healer.. That is, if you were even capable of casting it on others.

Anyway, the space created by the hole is extradimensional. So the answer to your question is yes, you can planeshift elsewhere. The same applies to Mordenkainen's Mansion, bags of holding, the space made in the Rope Trick spell, etc. You could even planeshift back to the material plane you left by entering the hole.

[Dalebert]

Ah, I think what threw me is I always see it on npcs and I thought I remembered someone else casting it on them.

Anyway, I know I can do it. My question is about where I would end up. Would I still be in the vicinity of the PH or somewhere else entirely?

[Segev]

Ah, I think what threw me is I always see it on npcs and I thought I remembered someone else casting it on them.

Anyway, I know I can do it. My question is about where I would end up. Would I still be in the vicinity of the PH or somewhere else entirely?

Well, plane shift puts you in a random place on the target plane. The Portable Hole is its own pocket dimension, so in theory you could plane shift to it and thus have a quick way to wherever it lets out, but...why not just teleport, at that point?

[Slayn82]

Well, plane shift puts you in a random place on the target plane. The Portable Hole is its own pocket dimension, so in theory you could plane shift to it and thus have a quick way to wherever it lets out, but...why not just teleport, at that point?

Well, looking at the 3rd edition, now I know how to solve the old question: how do you teleport into a Anti teleportation warded area? You arrange a pocket dimension inside the target, and planeshift there.

[Nifft]

Well, looking at the 3rd edition, now I know how to solve the old question: how do you teleport into a Anti teleportation warded area? You arrange a pocket dimension inside the target, and planeshift there.

Maybe all portable holes are different locations in a single dimension.

You can plane shift to the plane of portable holes, but the one you end up in is random (and full of beer).

[Dalebert]

Well, plane shift puts you in a random place on the target plane.

That sounded kooky to me so prompted me to go read it:

"You can specify a target destination in general terms, such as the City of Brass..."

You can also pick a specific teleportation circle you know on that plane. But neither of these gets me exactly where I want to be which is in the same spot but would theoretically get me near. Problem is "near" means whatever the DM decides it means.


The Portable Hole is its own pocket dimension, so in theory you could plane shift to it and thus have a quick way to wherever it lets out, but...why not just teleport, at that point?

That's actually pretty cool though I'm more concerned about shifting out of it.


Maybe all portable holes are different locations in a single dimension.

You can plane shift to the plane of portable holes, but the one you end up in is random (and full of beer).

The story hook potential of this is awesome. As inconvenient as it would be, I would love that.

[Segev]

Well, looking at the 3rd edition, now I know how to solve the old question: how do you teleport into a Anti teleportation warded area? You arrange a pocket dimension inside the target, and planeshift there.Are there anti-teleportation things that don't also prevent planar travel? At best, I think you'd wind up in the portable hole, but it couldn't be opened.


That sounded kooky to me so prompted me to go read it:

"You can specify a target destination in general terms, such as the City of Brass..."

You can also pick a specific teleportation circle you know on that plane. But neither of these gets me exactly where I want to be which is in the same spot but would theoretically get me near. Problem is "near" means whatever the DM decides it means.Gah, 5e/3e differences catching me, my bad. Plane shift is, indeed, more directable in this edition.


That's actually pretty cool though I'm more concerned about shifting out of it.
Might I ask why? I don't see why it would be an issue, but also don't see what the utility is.

[Dalebert]

Might I ask why? I don't see why it would be an issue, but also don't see what the utility is.

From my OP:


Here's why I ask. My necromancer has a portable hole and the means to planeshift. If I were wanting very badly to maintain concentration <snip> I might cast, hop down into the hole, then command a skeleton to fold the hole and put it in a chest. Another skeleton would have standing orders to follow me holding a small open chest and if anyone puts something in that chest, immediately shut and lock it.

I can't command the skeletons from the PH but I could count on party members to open the chest eventually and I could always planeshift twice to end up back in a nearby city on Prime Material, but it would be nice if I could go to the ethereal plane next round and watch in case I might decide to come back in the same vicinity.

[Segev]

From my OP:

Okay, so this is a "remove myself from combat except as a buff-maintenance engine" maneuver?

[Dalebert]

Okay, so this is a "remove myself from combat except as a buff-maintenance engine" maneuver?

Close. It's actually a "get myself back into combat if I really need to" after the "remove myself from combat except for concentration-maintenance" maneuver. The concentration maintenance maneuver using a PH and skeletons is already pretty solid.

[Segev]

I believe telepathic bond does not require Concentration. I suggest using that with your box-minding minion as an easier means of doing this. Plane shifting twice is amazingly expensive.

If you aren't able to communicate with the outside world, too, how do you maintain awareness to know you need to abruptly return?

Also, doesn't rope trick provide a similar redoubt?

[Dalebert]

I believe telepathic bond does not require Concentration. I suggest using that with your box-minding minion as an easier means of doing this. Plane shifting twice is amazingly expensive.

Doesn't function across planes. Also, even though communication might be extended, I doubt control would be. Ability to "mentally command" is 60 feet. It doesn't actually mention planes here. With the hole open, I think most people would interpret that things can cross over including things like spell effects. With it closed... hmm... it is possible to escape the hole pretty easily so it's never really fully closed. This raises questions. It's definitely full cover but there gaps. One could argue for certain spell effects being able to pass like a message spell, or for instance, an air elemental that only needs a 1 inch gap could theoretically still enter or leave it. This does however involve a lot of DM discretion and I'm constantly changing tables because it's an AL game.


If you aren't able to communicate with the outside world, too, how do you maintain awareness to know you need to abruptly return?

Again, already explained, but if I get to the ethereal plane in the same location, I can be watching what happens safely and plane shift back if needed badly enough. The reason I don't just plane shift is because I can't do it the same turn--only one action. But getting into the hole is just movement and commanding a skeleton to close it and drop it in a chest is a bonus action.


Also, doesn't rope trick provide a similar redoubt?

Nah. They'd see me disappear into that gap and probably realize it's still there and enter if they wanted.

[Tanarii]

Concentration works across planes?

Guess I screwed a player who used a Potion of Etherealness a few weeks back. Oops. :smallfrown:

[Dalebert]

The concentration section of the phb lists the things that can end it.

[Segev]

Again, already explained, but if I get to the ethereal plane in the same location, I can be watching what happens safely and plane shift back if needed badly enough. The reason I don't just plane shift is because I can't do it the same turn--only one action. But getting into the hole is just movement and commanding a skeleton to close it and drop it in a chest is a bonus action.So you want to cast a Concentration spell, then climb into the hole?

Yeah, that should work. But you're not going to be able to appear reliably in the thick of the fight on the Ethereal Plane, just "nearby" (for whatever definition of that the GM uses; personally, I'd use "within a half-hour walk of the dungeon entrance, if not in the dungeon complex itself").

You could also just have the chest have a peephole and keep the Portable Hole permanently in the bottom of it. Climb into the chest and have the minion close it. You can unlock and open it from inside.


Nah. They'd see me disappear into that gap and probably realize it's still there and enter if they wanted.Put the Portable Hole face-down over the entrance, so when they climb up, they're in that, while you're in the spell's pocket dimension.


Concentration works across planes?

Guess I screwed a player who used a Potion of Etherealness a few weeks back. Oops. :smallfrown:You did, indeed. Concentration doesn't have any rules about having to maintain any sort of proximity to the spell effect. You could make somebody invisible, and they could then go to the Abyss and still be invisible while you stay safely in your nice, cozy study.