[3.5] Can Matter Agitation also do damage for lighting someone on fire

[ShadeBlade0]

The RAW for the power Matter Agitation say that you can burn an area of up to 2 square ft, and the effect for the third round and on is "...Skin burns and hair ignites (1d6 points of damage)..."
Since the hair also ignites, does this mean that the enemy takes the regular damage for being on fire (an additional 1d6 per round), or is that covered by the 1d6 damage from the power?

To me it seems like the power of the skin blistering is what deals damage from the power, and the ignition of the person's body is just another affect of that power that also causes its normal damage.
Help a pyromaniac out. :)


Edit: power, not spell

[Sto]

Greetings!

I believe it's just flavour text, but I could be wrong. I don't have my books at the moment, but there are spells that do set things on fire, shouldn't we compare the text and see if it's similar?

[ShadeBlade0]

As far as I'm aware, most fire spells are instantaneous (ex: Fireball). They have a brief burst of flames and don't have enough time to ignite anything. The RAW for catching on fire says, "Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash." Since this is continuous, noninstantaneous "magical" (ish) fire, I feel like it has the potential to do burning damage.

[Rijan_Sai]

While it does not say so specifically in the text for Matter Agitation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/matterAgitation.htm), I did find this in the rules for catching on fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#catchingOnFire):

Catching On Fire

Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.

Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.)

A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.

Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.
MA specifically states that on round three and beyond, hair catches on fire. Combined with the general rule above, that should allow a save to avoid, and on failure yes they do catch and take recurring damage (above and beyond the power!)
Of course, since the power is "Duration: Concentration," from the DM side I would require the save each round, even if successful. (Also consider that, as of round 2 water is boiling, diving in to extinguish the flame may not be such a good idea, either! :smallamused:)

[Necroticplague]

While it does not say so specifically in the text for Matter Agitation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/matterAgitation.htm), I did find this in the rules for catching on fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#catchingOnFire):

MA specifically states that on round three and beyond, hair catches on fire. Combined with the general rule above, that should allow a save to avoid, and on failure yes they do catch and take recurring damage (above and beyond the power!)
Of course, since the power is "Duration: Concentration," from the DM side I would require the save each round, even if successful. (Also consider that, as of round 2 water is boiling, diving in to extinguish the flame may not be such a good idea, either! :smallamused:)

What if they don't have any hair or skin?

[Rijan_Sai]

What if they don't have any hair or skin?

Then I suppose they just take the 1d6/round fire dawizard from the power itself...(subject to the usual weakness/resistance/immunity; though I guess if it was something made of metal, it would only take 1d4 points...:smallsmile:)

[ShadeBlade0]

What if they don't have any hair or skin?

Hair, I understand. If they don't have any skin, I think they have bigger problems to worry about than Matter Agitation.

[Necroticplague]

Hair, I understand. If they don't have any skin, I think they have bigger problems to worry about than Matter Agitation.

Being undead, a construct, or insectoid/crustacoid isn't that big a problem.

[Rijan_Sai]

Being undead, a construct, or insectoid/crustacoid isn't that big a problem.

Eh... all three of those are (potentially) susceptible to fire damage, and at least 2/3* are (potentially) flammable!

*Depending on the type of construct involved... Golems (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm) are pretty much a non-factor due to the "Power Resistance: Yes" line, (though you could heat up the environment around them... might work!) but depending on the material, an Animated Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm) could most certainly burn/melt/ignite/ignore.)

[XionUnborn01]

I've never used the power and I'm not near books but generally a power or ability doesn't do something unless it specifically says it does.

[Rijan_Sai]

I've never used the power and I'm not near books but generally a power or ability doesn't do something unless it specifically says it does.

This is true, but the power does specifically state that "...hair ignites..." on the 3rd round and beyond.

I did some quick math and, if the target takes the "extra" damage every round, it averages out to ~59.5 point of fire damage... over ten rounds... of "Duration: Concentration (up to 1 minute per level.)" If you manage to roll max damage evey time, (or you decide to use Maximize Power,) you could get up to 101 fire damage the first minute, with 120/minute after (in blocks of 12/round. If you're NOT using Maximize, or rolling insanely good, you're getting an average of 7/round, 70/minute.) Again, assuming best-case scenario in which the target fails the DC 15 Ref save every round. With the manifestor in question doing nothing else meaningful but concentrating on the power (at least until Solicit Psicrystal comes into play.)
Personally, I would say that's not exactly "broken," even for a first level power.

Sorry, didn't mean for that to turn into a wall-of-text...
tl/dr: Yes, but...

Minor Edit: Just thought about this: 5 points of fire resistance brings that down to a MAXIMUM of 2 points of damage/round...