Rogue/Ranger level progression? Which subclass?

[PhantomVector]

I'm hoping to run a Rogue/Ranger an upcoming game if I get my choice. Possibly the revised Ranger if I'm lucky. I've tried to do some research before coming straight here, but I haven't found much advice in regards to the level progression of this multiclass. We're supposed to be running The Dragon Heist in Waterdeep, which I know nothing about so I'm not entirely sure which subclasses to take as well. I did find out that if run as written its supposed to run from 1-5, so I'm not entirely sure multiclassing would even be worth it at that point, I guess the sneak attack damage sort of makes up for the lost extra attack and expertise would be nice if I went Rogue 1/Ranger 4.

I think for the rogue subclass, I was wanting to try scout since I wanted to play an archer, and it seems very well built for kiting around the battlefield. Though if Gloom Stalker was on the table, I was thinking assassin would be a good companion subclass.

Tl;dr is I could use some advice for the level progression of a rogue/ranger and unless I'm told otherwise I was thinking Rogue 15/Ranger 5. I'm not familiar with Waterdeep/Dragon Heist Module, so I'm not sure what subclasses would be useful here either. Maybe some suggestions for feats as well, I know I want to be an archer of some sort so I probably want to grab sharpshooter at a minimum, if I get stuck with a crossbow, crossbow expert.

[GoodmanDL]

I played a Wood Elf revised ranger with Sharpsooter. I waited to Ranger 9 before I took Rogue, because I wanted 3rd level spells. Every level of Rogue thereafter added something good.

Decide how much ranger you need first, and decide if you need the rogue stuff early or can wait.

[CTurbo]

I would not bother multiclassing for something that will likely only go 4-5 levels

I'd just stick with Revised Ranger probably Gloom Stalker

[PhantomVector]

I would not bother multiclassing for something that will likely only go 4-5 levels

I'd just stick with Revised Ranger probably Gloom Stalker

Well assuming we go past level 5 into viable multiclass territory what would you suggest?

[PhantomVector]

I played a Wood Elf revised ranger with Sharpsooter. I waited to Ranger 9 before I took Rogue, because I wanted 3rd level spells. Every level of Rogue thereafter added something good.

Decide how much ranger you need first, and decide if you need the rogue stuff early or can wait.

What Was more important to your build Ranger or rogue? I want to go more rogue mechanically because a few of the class features like uncanny dodge, evasion, and reliable talent. Do you think the spells are worth it? Delaying or losing rogue features?

[Orc_Lord]

I like Ranger Hunter 3 / Rogue X, Scout is my preferred, but assassin has a better Nova, Swashbuckler goes first.

With Ranger 3 you get Fighting Style (accuracy), Hunter's Mark (more damage), and Colossus Slayer (more damage if below HP max)

Then rogue gives you sneak die, Scout at 3 gives you the ability to move away without provoking Opportunity Attacks which for an Archer is awesome especially when you can also dash around.

Overall higher level ranger abilities don't add as much damage as rogue does so you end up having the best of both worlds....

[tieren]

Go ranger for 5 levels (Hunter)
Go rogue for 7 levels (Arcane Trickster)
Go druid for 8 levels (Shepherd)

Turn into a squirrel, climb a tree over the enemy camp while they sleep, turn back into humanoid form, place a totem, summon a pack of wild boar, and sharpshoot with sneak attack until they spot you, then turn into a hawk and fly away.

[the secret fire]

I'd suggest Arcane Trickster after 5 levels of Gloom Stalker. Rangers have quite limited spells known, and AT has a great list which barely overlaps with the Ranger list, so you're getting a lot of value out of the magic even though Ranger is already a half-caster. A Gloom Stalker/AT is pretty much the perfect urban Ranger, and it sounds like you're going to be in Waterdeep.

Pass on Sharpshooter. That feat is best in the hands of Fighters, as it requires lots of iterative attacks for the math to reliably fall in your favor. Not good for Rogues.

[PhantomVector]

I like Ranger Hunter 3 / Rogue X, Scout is my preferred, but assassin has a better Nova, Swashbuckler goes first.

With Ranger 3 you get Fighting Style (accuracy), Hunter's Mark (more damage), and Colossus Slayer (more damage if below HP max)

Then rogue gives you sneak die, Scout at 3 gives you the ability to move away without provoking Opportunity Attacks which for an Archer is awesome especially when you can also dash around.

Overall higher level ranger abilities don't add as much damage as rogue does so you end up having the best of both worlds....

Hm extra attack and the ASI isn’t worth the two extra levels? I mean, I’m mostly doing it for the gloom stalker level 3 ability.

[PhantomVector]

Go ranger for 5 levels (Hunter)
Go rogue for 7 levels (Arcane Trickster)
Go druid for 8 levels (Shepherd)

Turn into a squirrel, climb a tree over the enemy camp while they sleep, turn back into humanoid form, place a totem, summon a pack of wild boar, and sharpshoot with sneak attack until they spot you, then turn into a hawk and fly away.

That is amazing. If I don’t do it this game, I will achieve this multiclass else where lol.

[Crgaston]

Everyone is giving good advice here. You'll have a better idea the exact direction you want to go once you get a feel for the character and the DM.

I'm playing a PHB Ranger Gloomstalker/Rogue and after last night's session we are about to hit L8. I went straight Ranger to 5 then 2 in Rogue, but I knew we were going to be hitting higher levels. If playing a low level campaign, I could see going Rogue 2/Ranger 3 or Rogue 3/Ranger 2. You get 1 extra skill starting with Rogue, but Strength saves will probably be more common than Int ones at low levels.

Cunning Action is fantastic. That would probably be the mechanic I would go for first, then the Archery fighting style if you're not hitting enough. As far as going beyond that, You'd eventually want at least 5 in each because of Uncanny Dodge and Extra attack+2nd level spells.

RE: Spells
Goodberry is the best 1st level out-of-combat healing spell with a guaranteed 10hp per casting.

Hunter's Mark is a straight damage boost when needed. I save it for bigger fights.

As for 2nd level spells, Spike Growth is amazing low level crowd control, and the dreaded Healing Spirit isn't cheesy when used in combat, especially when you're multiclassing Rogue, as it uses your Bonus Action to move it. Pass Without Trace is great for the whole party, and when combined with Expertise in stealth and 18 Dex, you'll have a +20 modifier yourself.

[CTurbo]

I would go Ranger 5, either Hunter or Gloom Stalker, and THEN if the campaign continues, jump over to Rogue for the next 5. Ranger 5, Rogue 5 is great whether you're an archer or melee.

Gloom Stalker/Assassin is a popular and devastating combo ranged or melee but especially ranged.

Hunter/Scout is great as an archer

Hunter/Swashbuckler is great in melee

Arcane Trickster goes well with either


You really can't go wrong with Hunter or Gloom stalker 5, and any Rogue 5. The 2 classes go extremely well together. Just depends on what kind of character you want to play.

[PhantomVector]

I'd suggest Arcane Trickster after 5 levels of Gloom Stalker. Rangers have quite limited spells known, and AT has a great list which barely overlaps with the Ranger list, so you're getting a lot of value out of the magic even though Ranger is already a half-caster. A Gloom Stalker/AT is pretty much the perfect urban Ranger, and it sounds like you're going to be in Waterdeep.

Pass on Sharpshooter. That feat is best in the hands of Fighters, as it requires lots of iterative attacks for the math to reliably fall in your favor. Not good for Rogues.

Yes as far as I know we’re venturing forth into Waterdeep. It’s a city then?

Is the magic you get from arcane trickster worth giving up say crits if you go first as an assassin? Which by being able to add wis to initiative, and possibly grabbing the alert feat means I’ll almost always be at the top of the combat order.

[PhantomVector]

Everyone is giving good advice here. You'll have a better idea the exact direction you want to go once you get a feel for the character and the DM.

I'm playing a PHB Ranger Gloomstalker/Rogue and after last night's session we are about to hit L8. I went straight Ranger to 5 then 2 in Rogue, but I knew we were going to be hitting higher levels. If playing a low level campaign, I could see going Rogue 2/Ranger 3 or Rogue 3/Ranger 2. You get 1 extra skill starting with Rogue, but Strength saves will probably be more common than Int ones at low levels.

Cunning Action is fantastic. That would probably be the mechanic I would go for first, then the Archery fighting style if you're not hitting enough. As far as going beyond that, You'd eventually want at least 5 in each because of Uncanny Dodge and Extra attack+2nd level spells.

RE: Spells
Goodberry is the best 1st level out-of-combat healing spell with a guaranteed 10hp per casting.

Hunter's Mark is a straight damage boost when needed. I save it for bigger fights.

As for 2nd level spells, Spike Growth is amazing low level crowd control, and the dreaded Healing Spirit isn't cheesy when used in combat, especially when you're multiclassing Rogue, as it uses your Bonus Action to move it. Pass Without Trace is great for the whole party, and when combined with Expertise in stealth and 18 Dex, you'll have a +20 modifier yourself.

Hm a lot of people have suggested going 5 ranger before multiclassing, is it not worth getting expertise and cunning action sort of early? Assuming it’ll end at a high level? I’m going to be talking to the DM tonight so I’ll see how far he wants to take these characters.

[Crgaston]

Yes as far as I know we’re venturing forth into Waterdeep. It’s a city then?

Is the magic you get from arcane trickster worth giving up say crits if you go first as an assassin? Which by being able to add wis to initiative, and possibly grabbing the alert feat means I’ll almost always be at the top of the combat order.


Just to be clear, Assassins only get crits on Surprise. You get advantage when you attack someone who hasn't acted yet.


Keep in mind that you're not really getting any more slots from mixing Ranger and AT, just that your Spells Known options open up a lot. Notably with cantrips and Find Familiar. And if you're using them for anything besides utility, you'll have 2 different DC's to worry about. That said, a super stealthy, extra attacking, invisible-to-darkvision, magically self-disguising, Blurred or Mirror Imaged character with Friends (no save), Charm/Hold Person and Suggestion... That's a freaking movie vampire. Awesome. I'd love to see that statted out.

[MagneticKitty]

I have a revised ranger beast master + scout rogue. Stopping at ranger 8 for all my beasts defense abilities. It is nice being an expert tracker (survival)

And pass without a trace + expertise in stealth is amazing

[the secret fire]

Yes as far as I know we’re venturing forth into Waterdeep. It’s a city then?

Is the magic you get from arcane trickster worth giving up say crits if you go first as an assassin? Which by being able to add wis to initiative, and possibly grabbing the alert feat means I’ll almost always be at the top of the combat order.

Yes, Waterdeep is a large port city.

Assassins unfortunately rely a lot on their teammates to set up their openers. If you're in a group with lots of big dumbs who don't stealth, playing an Assassin is an exercise in frustration.

I'd say that taking a level or two of Rogue in the beginning is fine. It puts you a little behind the power curve until you get your second attack, but it yields you more skills, so is better in the long term. If your campaign is likely to end around 5th level, don't take Rogue at all, but if it's going on past that, level up in whichever order you like.

[Citan]

I'm hoping to run a Rogue/Ranger an upcoming game if I get my choice. Possibly the revised Ranger if I'm lucky. I've tried to do some research before coming straight here, but I haven't found much advice in regards to the level progression of this multiclass. We're supposed to be running The Dragon Heist in Waterdeep, which I know nothing about so I'm not entirely sure which subclasses to take as well. I did find out that if run as written its supposed to run from 1-5, so I'm not entirely sure multiclassing would even be worth it at that point, I guess the sneak attack damage sort of makes up for the lost extra attack and expertise would be nice if I went Rogue 1/Ranger 4.

I think for the rogue subclass, I was wanting to try scout since I wanted to play an archer, and it seems very well built for kiting around the battlefield. Though if Gloom Stalker was on the table, I was thinking assassin would be a good companion subclass.

Tl;dr is I could use some advice for the level progression of a rogue/ranger and unless I'm told otherwise I was thinking Rogue 15/Ranger 5. I'm not familiar with Waterdeep/Dragon Heist Module, so I'm not sure what subclasses would be useful here either. Maybe some suggestions for feats as well, I know I want to be an archer of some sort so I probably want to grab sharpshooter at a minimum, if I get stuck with a crossbow, crossbow expert.
Hi!
Little time left for today, so quick post (for once ^^).

I'd suggest aiming for (best case here) a Gloom Stalker 5 / Arcane Trickster 5 first.
Start Ranger straight up to 3, if no special need continue until 5 and dual-class. Or delay if you really need Expertise (Rogue 1) or Cunning Action (Rogue 2) for some reason.

IF/WHEN you have gotten there, it's time for end-build goal.
I'd suggest Arcane Trickster 11 / Ranger 9 simply because I really love Reliable Talent. But the opposite balance is good too. :)

Anyways, I'd just put Evasion (Rogue 7) as a priority.

Good luck ;=)

[Foxhound438]

with what I've heard about dragon heist, it's supposed to be primarily a city-based game. Because of that, I feel like you could end up getting a lot of mileage out of thief's second story work, and expertice in thieve's tools would undoubtedly be handy if you have the desire to get into anywhere. It certainly could be worth doing a rogue 3/ ranger 2 at that point, if you pick up two weapon fighting that should give you more damage than pure rogue 5 thanks to hunter's mark, or at least very close to parity without it. I'd personally then strive to get to ranger 5 if you continue into higher levels.

But I'm a big advocate of the "pure class is the best multiclass" mindset, with only a few exceptions at higher levels, so if it were me I'd go pure thief rogue or pure ranger... if not for how much I want to play a monk in waterdeep, but that's straying from the point.

[GoodmanDL]

What Was more important to your build Ranger or rogue? I want to go more rogue mechanically because a few of the class features like uncanny dodge, evasion, and reliable talent. Do you think the spells are worth it? Delaying or losing rogue features?
My character was built as a ranger, but I switched to Rogue late. There's a lot of synergy, and I needed defensive features less because I was often at range.

But it's what you want more. If you want to be mostly Rogue, be a Rogue.

As for 3rd level spells, Conjure Animals is a very useful spell for an archer. They keep enemies off you, soak up attacks, and help maintain sneak attack. 8 Giant Owls add up, especially if your DM allows them to use the Help action to grant advantage on attack. If you ultimatly want it, don't put it off too much.