Hexblade/Swashbuckler build help

[OzDragon]

My biggest issue with making characters is when to take what levels of class x when. So I would like to enlist your help

I have a character that I am building and would like an idea of where it's going ahead of time. This character will start at level 2 with standard point buy. Will be either Tabaxi or Half elf.

Level two will be Hexblade 1/Rogue 1. My problem is here. Do I go Rogue the rest of the way? Do I go Hexblade 2 or 3 next?

Yes I understand the story might change some of this but I would like a template to start from. Any help is appreciated.

[Man_Over_Game]

My biggest issue with making characters is when to take what levels of class x when. So I would like to enlist your help

I have a character that I am building and would like an idea of where it's going ahead of time. This character will start at level 2 with standard point buy. Will be either Tabaxi or Half elf.

Level two will be Hexblade 1/Rogue 1. My problem is here. Do I go Rogue the rest of the way? Do I go Hexblade 2 or 3 next?

Yes I understand the story might change some of this but I would like a template to start from. Any help is appreciated.

Getting 3 levels into Hexblade is very ideal, for Darkness + Devil's Sight combo. I'd go the rest of the way through Rogue to improve Sneak Attack and to get your defensive trait at 5. Depending on your Charisma, I'd make your other Invocation the Disguise Self at-will option, and then pick up Actor with your next ASI, which has the added bonus of upgrading Charisma.

Overall, you'd be a changeling that can make a magical black fog that nobody can see through around you, but you can see them. You'd have advantage to attack anything, everything has disadvantage to attack you (that's even assuming they know what square you're in), you'd get sneak attack pretty much every turn, you can cast Booming Blade while using a Versatile weapon (or a shield if you want) for an almost guaranteed hit, and the Swash buckler bonus would mean you could run away after setting the Booming Blade so they can't run out of the Darkness without being hurt. At level 5, you can get resistance to 1 attack every turn for no resource, and you're likely not going to be hit often. Use the Bonus Action Dash and the Charisma bonus to initiative to utilize Darkness before enemies can even act in the combat.

I actually played this exact build, and it was a lot of fun, especially the Changeling combo. If you want to save yourself some time, go Human Variant, picking up Actor, so you become a changeling at level 2-3 rather than level 6.


Ideally, it'd go in this order:

Rogue 1 (For skills), Actor Feat
Hexblade Warlock 1 (Booming Blade)
Hexblade Warlock 2 (Devil's Sight, Disguise Self as a cantrip)
Hexblade Warlock 3 (Darkness)
Rogue 2
Rogue 3 (Swashbuckler)
Rogue 4 (Whatever you like best, I like Inspiring Leader or ASI)
Rogue 5


I picked up some RP based spells from my extra Warlock options, like Illusory Script, and played a spy/assassin. Overall, this was my favorite character of all time to play, with some overpowered combat and RP abilities compared to everyone else.

[BaconAwesome]

Getting 3 levels into Hexblade is very ideal, for Darkness + Devil's Sight combo. I'd go the rest of the way through Rogue to improve Sneak Attack and to get your defensive trait at 5.

...

Ideally, it'd go in this order:

Rogue 1 (For skills), Actor Feat
Hexblade Warlock 1 (Booming Blade)
Hexblade Warlock 2 (Devil's Sight, Disguise Self as a cantrip)
Hexblade Warlock 3 (Darkness)
Rogue 2
Rogue 3 (Swashbuckler)
Rogue 4 (Whatever you like best, I like Inspiring Leader or ASI)
Rogue 5


Or you could play a half-drow and put off the third level of warlock, but the boon is fun. (Chain would also help you get advantage.)

[CTurbo]

Even if you do dip Hexblade, I'd still prioritize Dex of Cha

Not sure what you're wanting out of this character but if I were to do a Hexblade/swashbuckler build that prioritized Cha over Dex(which I wouldn't), I would go Variant Human with the Moderately Armored feat at level 1 and start 14 Dex, 16 Con, and 16 Cha, leave Dex at 14 and wear Breastplate and use Shield, then Max Cha asap. I would possibly consider this if I wanted a Hexblade with a Rogue dip, but if I wanted a Rogue build with a Hexblade dip, I'd definitely prioritize Dex.

So which class are you wanting to be the main class and which will be the dip? Or are you expecting a relatively even split between the two?

Either way, I'd start Rogue 1/Hexblade 1, and then take the next 4 levels of your main class in a row before taking a second level in the other class.

I really hate 2/2 and especially 2/3 or 3/3 multiclass splits. You're guaranteed to feel much weaker in levels 3-6 if you do that.

[Man_Over_Game]

Or you could play a half-drow and put off the third level of warlock, but the boon is fun. (Chain would also help you get advantage.)

You don't get the Darkness spell from Drow until level 5, and can only cast it once per day. This also means you can't become a changeling until level 6. This makes you a lot more mundane between levels 2-4, and gives you vulnerability to light while also restricting how good in combat you are (since you can only cast Darkness, a 1 min concentration spell, once a day, Warlocks get it about 4x a day)


I really hate 2/2 and especially 2/3 or 3/3 multiclass splits. You're guaranteed to feel much weaker in levels 3-6 if you do that.
With Warlocks, I think there's an exception, since the Invocations give a pretty high power jump compared to most classes' level 2.

I mean, from experience, I didn't feel like I was falling behind. Shield, Booming Blade, Crossbow when I needed to. And the boost from getting the Darkness spell was so juicy, traps ended up being more of a threat than bad guys. I thought the second level into Hexblade had a lot more value than the second level into Rogue, but that's a matter of opinion and I could easily be wrong on that.

[BaconAwesome]

You don't get the Darkness spell from Drow until level 5, and can only cast it once per day. This also means you can't become a changeling until level 6. This makes you a lot more mundane between levels 1-4, and gives you vulnerability to light while also restricting how good in combat you are (since you can only cast Darkness, a 1 min concentration spell, once a day, Warlocks get it about 4x a day).

All very good points, except for darkness sensitivity (I suggested a half-drow.) Also, Darkness at level 5 is only one level later than the original build, but you're right that Warlock 3 is appealing.

[OzDragon]

Even if you do dip Hexblade, I'd still prioritize Dex of Cha

Not sure what you're wanting out of this character but if I were to do a Hexblade/swashbuckler build that prioritized Cha over Dex(which I wouldn't), I would go Variant Human with the Moderately Armored feat at level 1 and start 14 Dex, 16 Con, and 16 Cha, leave Dex at 14 and wear Breastplate and use Shield, then Max Cha asap. I would possibly consider this if I wanted a Hexblade with a Rogue dip, but if I wanted a Rogue build with a Hexblade dip, I'd definitely prioritize Dex.

So which class are you wanting to be the main class and which will be the dip? Or are you expecting a relatively even split between the two?

Either way, I'd start Rogue 1/Hexblade 1, and then take the next 4 levels of your main class in a row before taking a second level in the other class.

I really hate 2/2 and especially 2/3 or 3/3 multiclass splits. You're guaranteed to feel much weaker in levels 3-6 if you do that.

Why would you prioritize dex over char? Saves, armor, skills?

A dark Errol Flynn/Dread Pirate Roberts type is what im thinking play wise.

[CTurbo]

Why would you prioritize dex over char? Saves, armor, skills?

A dark Errol Flynn/Dread Pirate Roberts type is what im thinking play wise.

Saves, stealth, acrobatics, and AC without medium armor

[GorogIrongut]

I agree that your first 3 levels should be in Hexblade. It opens up slots, slot levels invocations and Pact Boons. If you were looking for multi attacks then you might even be well served by going straight to 5 (remember level 5 nets you an extra invocation and level 3 spells). After which you could go straight Swashbuckler. I personally prefer the Arcane Trickster to it, but I can appreciate a character wanting a bit of swash in em. Theoretically you could act Swashbuckler while retaining the mechanics of AT, but that's up to you.

Either way, at this point you could just go straight rogue. Really build up that sneak attack damage (while potentially getting some hexblade smite damage going too).

p.s. Contrary to what you think, I would actually be more tempted to go for the Pact of the Tome. Ritual Magic. Loads of Cantrips. It could go a good ways to powering up your character. Even if it meant you lost Hex Smiting.

[Vogie]

Why would you prioritize dex over char? Saves, armor, skills?

A dark Errol Flynn/Dread Pirate Roberts type is what im thinking play wise.

Yes, yes, yes, and initiative too. The +Cha to initiative from Swashbuckler is just gravy, but you're much more likely to get caught up in a Dex save than a Cha save.

I think he's trying to ask what precisely you're getting out of the Hexblade portion, thematically.

For example, if you're just going for a rogue who can use the spell Shield every so often, then Lock 1 would be perfect.

However, if your core concept was Arya Stark or one of the Faceless from Game of Thrones, you'd be making sure you grab Warlock 2 really quick for the Mask of Many Faces invocation. Same goes for any of the lower-level invocations or spells.

If you want reliable advantage, then Lock 3 for an invisible familiar is key, while the ability for it to shapeshift into a bird and perch on your shoulder is just glorious. Alternatively, going any other pact, and relying on the Darkness/Devil's sight combo for advantage is also good. This is less of an issue if you're relying on the Swashbuckler features to gain sneak attack without relying on advantage.

[BaconAwesome]

If you do end up prioritizing Dex over Cha, consider some of the other patrons, like Raven Queen. You'd miss out on the hexblade's curse and shield, but the spirit Raven is pretty nice.

[Citan]

My biggest issue with making characters is when to take what levels of class x when. So I would like to enlist your help

I have a character that I am building and would like an idea of where it's going ahead of time. This character will start at level 2 with standard point buy. Will be either Tabaxi or Half elf.

Level two will be Hexblade 1/Rogue 1. My problem is here. Do I go Rogue the rest of the way? Do I go Hexblade 2 or 3 next?

Yes I understand the story might change some of this but I would like a template to start from. Any help is appreciated.
Hi!
Contrarily to others, I'd suggest taking first the Rogue 2.
I understand the appeal of Darkness + Devil's Sight combo, but...
- It's still 2 slots per short rest.
- You will be a huge pain in the *** for your party.
- You won't have great concentration, so risk of losing it in a situation that does not favor you is real.

That is, until you get Hide as a bonus action.
Which comes from the same feature that also allows you to Dash as a bonus action and Disengage as a bonus action (although as a Swashbuckler you don't really need it).
And Hide as a bonus action can be used outside of just the Darkness combo, while Dash as a bonus action will ensure that you as a melee user will "always" be in reach (except for flyers of course).

Also, Warlock 2 could allow you to grab Repelling Blast, which is in essence one of the best features of all games... Once you get several rays, which is not before char level 5.

For those reasons, I'd pick at least Rogue 2 as 3rd level, then see whether I want to get Swashbuckler first (added benefit: free disengage means you can dual-wield more often. With that said, the Sneak Attack is not much. True worth is Initiative, but you don't have power to really change encounter either) or Darkness first (added benefit: with advantage, you should be able to bet on simple Booming Blade often enough).
On that balance, I think Warlock wins.

>>> Rogue 1 > Warlock 1 > Rogue 2 > Warlock 3 (Tome Pact, Ritual Invocation, Darkness Invocation)* > Rogue 5 > Warlock 5 (Repelling Blast, just before 3rd ray) > Rogue 7 > Warlock 7 (Agonizing Blast or Eldricht Frost) is what I would aim for. :)

Why Tome? Blade pact is a solid choice, but if you plan on using the Darkness combo as your standard move, there is no great reason not to use Booming Blade especially after you reach the level 11 threshold.
Not going Blade and instead Tome also means...
1. Much lesser pressure on leveling build (there is no "I must get Extra Attack ASAP"),
so you can priorize Rogue with a light heart.

2. As well as getting many more interesting tools to diversify (Minor Illusion, Guidance, Mold Earth, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Spare the Dying... Many great picks) thanks to the free cantrips.

3. And possibly several rituals to make you even more useful to party and yourself (with Find Familiar first, Comprehend Languages second), especially if there are Clerics/Wizards/Druids in party!
You won't be redundant, quite on the contrary:
- you alleviate the need for them to keep utility spells prepared (Cleric / Druid)
- you are a live backup of spells (Wizard).
- you can "dual-cast" a spell for expanded use (typical example: reducing time to set up a camp with Alarm and Tiny Hut, easing exploration by dividing group with two Phantom Steed, or simply taking care of any ritual because other caster is already concentrating on an important spell).

[Corran]

As others will have probably mentioned by now, rogue 2/ warlock 3 is a good split to aim for, at character level 5.

Darkness + devil's sight + cunning action (hide) can be very potent. Use bb with you action and move around freely at no fear of provoking OA's, since they don't 'see' you. Depending on what the other players are playing though, it might hinder the group (for example, darkness hurts PC's that often use spells/cantrips that require of them to 'see' their target, or martials who have a way of getting advantage such as barbarians, etc). But same holds for the enemies, especially for those that have strong abilities that need sight to target them against you and your allies (classic example, a beholder). So use with caution, and don't spam it. Find other tactics to mix it with, or else it will probably become boring (it did for me), not to mention that this wont work once you start facing some very serious opponents (with truesight and stuff like that). Even in the higher levels it can find its uses, but don't get too excited with it as it's very far from a I-win button. (stealth expertise recommended)
ps: Later on (ie if/when you pick your 7th level in warlock), greater invisibility will let you accomplish more or less the same thing as darkness, without the extra benefits & potential drawbacks.

Invisibility is a very useful spell for roguish characters. (stealth expertise)

Mask of many faces + friends (cantrip) + actor feat (strongly recommended; otherwise forget this whole thing and go for alter self instead; no combining with friends though, as both require concentration), can be ridiculous! Tons of fun! Seriously! If that thing fits your style of course. (deception expertise recommended, assuming your DM does the logical thing -IMO-, which is to have NPC's roll against your disguise self DC only when your PC gives them reason to suspect him; that's where deception comes in, as the first line of defense, and with expertise and advantage through actor, you are golden).

After that, I dunno, you decide. I played this build: tiefling rogue 2/fiend warlock 3, free feat actor, only till level 5 (actually, started and finished at level 5, it was a short campaign of 3 sessions; edit: I grew tired of the darkness spam on another character), so I don't really know leveling progression or if it would be objectively better to go with more rogue or more warlock. Still, I know what I would like to do with this kind of build, optimal or not. Assassin 3/ hexblade 17 (actor, alert, lucky, edit: and observant for reading lips!!! So many nice feats...), pact of the blade so that I can summon a weapon out of thin air, and aim for higher level spells such as scrying, etherealness or teleport, while also grabbing spells like dimension door, misty step, invisibility and greater invisibility, etc, along the way. The smiting invocation for assassination rounds. Custom background: Ninja! My bad, didn't notice you said swashbuckler...