Summon Rust Monsters

[kbob]

As the title suggests, is there a way to summon (or some effect of the like) rust monsters? The more the better.

[Kayblis]

Summoning Rust Monsters is not really possible. You can do the next best thing, Polymorphing a creature into a Rust Monster. It has 5 HD, so it would take a valid candidate with at least 5HD, be it a 5th-level humanoid or a tame animal with that many HD. Handle Animal and domestication looks like a fine plan here. Polymorph has a long duration(1 min/lv), so you get a buttload of rusting with a single casting.

[Kyrell1978]

Summoning Rust Monsters is not really possible. You can do the next best thing, Polymorphing a creature into a Rust Monster. It has 5 HD, so it would take a valid candidate with at least 5HD, be it a 5th-level humanoid or a tame animal with that many HD. Handle Animal and domestication looks like a fine plan here. Polymorph has a long duration(1 min/lv), so you get a buttload of rusting with a single casting.

Couldn't you just apply the fiendish/celestial template at summon it the normal way?

[kbob]

Another question came to my mind while contemplating this, would a RM in an AMF be pretty much a nightmare for adventurers? By this I mean, would their magic items not get saves because they wouldn't be considered magic at the moment (treated as masterwork)?


Couldn't you just apply the fiendish/celestial template at summon it the normal way?

That's a simple, yet interesting fix (assuming the DM acknowledges the existence of "fiendish rust monters"). From a players perspective, that just sounds scary.

[Kayblis]

Another question came to my mind while contemplating this, would a RM in an AMF be pretty much a nightmare for adventurers? By this I mean, would their magic items not get saves because they wouldn't be considered magic at the moment (treated as masterwork)?

I believe yes, just like a magical item targeted by Dispel Magic has its magic supressed for 1d4 rounds, and can be broken during that time as if it's a common item.

[Kyrell1978]

Another question came to my mind while contemplating this, would a RM in an AMF be pretty much a nightmare for adventurers? By this I mean, would their magic items not get saves because they wouldn't be considered magic at the moment (treated as masterwork)?



That's a simple, yet interesting fix (assuming the DM acknowledges the existence of "fiendish rust monters"). From a players perspective, that just sounds scary.
Well if you're playing 3.5 the wording of the fiendish template states ""Fiendish" is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin of nongood alignment (referred to hereafter as the base creature [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/fiendishCreature.htm]). " and that certainly includes rust monsters. I didn't see anything in PF that expressly prohibited but did not find any language that specifically stated it was ok either, but it does list the fiendish template as a simple template that can be added easily in combat and specifically references the summon monster spells https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/
Rust monsters are pretty much a nightmare until you are good enough to one shot them from a distance.

[kbob]

I guess that means, if one was so inclined to use a gate spell on it, you could gate in 4 of them at level 20.

[Segev]

IIRC, Fiendish and Celestial don't change type. So that doesn't make them summonable by the various Binding spells. I don't think summon monster gives you access to generic celestial fiendish _____.

[Bullet06320]

the summoners circle article in dragon 302 has rules for adding critters to your summon monster list

[Vizzerdrix]

the summoners circle article in dragon 302 has rules for adding critters to your summon monster list

This sounds interesting. Thanks for the heads up.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Rust monsters are pretty much a nightmare until you are good enough to one shot them from a distance.

Their only attack besides the rust touch is a 1d3 bite attack at -2 to hit.
You can pretty much fight one naked at level 1 and not worry too much about dying. Just pack a club or quarterstaff, they're free.

They're a nuisance for low level characters who wear metal armor, but calling them a nightmare is a little much.

[Calthropstu]

Yeah, summon monster followed by polymorh could do it.

Alternatively, you could research it as a spell. "Summon Rust Monster Swarm" would be pretty much a 6th or 7th lvl spell. Summon 2d6 rust monsters.

[Calthropstu]

Their only attack besides the rust touch is a 1d3 bite attack at -2 to hit.
You can pretty much fight one naked at level 1 and not worry too much about dying. Just pack a club or quarterstaff, they're free.

They're a nuisance for low level characters who wear metal armor, but calling them a nightmare is a little much.

They can be brutal at any level, especially if they pop up around you.

A summons gets to act the moment they exist which makes summoned rust monsters ridiculous.
This is something the gm throws at you because "**** you, that's why."

A pc using that is counter productive.

[Kyrell1978]

They can be brutal at any level, especially if they pop up around you.

A summons gets to act the moment they exist which makes summoned rust monsters ridiculous.
This is something the gm throws at you because "**** you, that's why."

A pc using that is counter productive.

not against an iron golem. :smallbiggrin:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/summon-monster/
According to this aberrations with templates are fair game. (akata, reefclaw, choker, etc.)

[PunBlake]

I wouldn't say counterproductive; I would say very niche.

A summoned rust monster would be useful against metal-based constructs and golems, which usually do not have treasure on their bodies. It seems possible to destroy an encounter this way, which is why I'd think hard about allowing them to be summoned as a DM; most constructs have terrible touch AC and reflex saves, and the Rust attack being (EX) gets around Immunity to Magic.

[Deophaun]

...but calling them a nightmare is a little much.
You aren't an iron golem.

[Kyrell1978]

Their only attack besides the rust touch is a 1d3 bite attack at -2 to hit.
You can pretty much fight one naked at level 1 and not worry too much about dying. Just pack a club or quarterstaff, they're free.

They're a nuisance for low level characters who wear metal armor, but calling them a nightmare is a little much.

They aren't a nightmare because they can kill you. They are a nightmare because they can take all of your stuff and your ability to get new stuff. Gold and silver are metal also.

[Segev]

They aren't a nightmare because they can kill you. They are a nightmare because they can take all of your stuff and your ability to get new stuff. Gold and silver are metal also.
And this is why you keep your wealth in gems!

...what do you mean, that's a folglub?

[Rijan_Sai]

not against an iron golem. :smallbiggrin:

Or gold (http://rustyandco.com/comic/34/), as the case may be. :smallbiggrin:

(Side note: really want to find a way to play as a rust monster sometime!)

They aren't a nightmare because they can kill you. They are a nightmare because they can take all of your stuff and your ability to get new stuff. Gold and silver are metal also.

This is true, but they are a CR3 monster which, while not a perfect rating of true challenge (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a), is still a decent "ballpark" figure. Thus, while it can still be detrimental to encounter one... ever, at higher levels you have more means to be rid of one with your gear and funds intact. (And, if you are somehow forewarned, it's not unreasonable for the party to have at least a Handy Haversack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#handyHaversack) to toss your most valuable stuff into, even @ level 3.)
Not that that would help against one (or more) being summoned by your enemies...

[Calthropstu]

Or gold (http://rustyandco.com/comic/34/), as the case may be. :smallbiggrin:

(Side note: really want to find a way to play as a rust monster sometime!)


This is true, but they are a CR3 monster which, while not a perfect rating of true challenge (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a), is still a decent "ballpark" figure. Thus, while it can still be detrimental to encounter one... ever, at higher levels you have more means to be rid of one with your gear and funds intact. (And, if you are somehow forewarned, it's not unreasonable for the party to have at least a Handy Haversack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#handyHaversack) to toss your most valuable stuff into, even @ level 3.)
Not that that would help against one (or more) being summoned by your enemies...

Which is what I am saying. A summon rust monster spell would make pc's cry.

[sleepyphoenixx]

They can be brutal at any level, especially if they pop up around you.

A summons gets to act the moment they exist which makes summoned rust monsters ridiculous.
This is something the gm throws at you because "**** you, that's why."

A pc using that is counter productive.
I'm not seeing it. Sure, they can maybe destroy a weapon or armor IF they win initiative, if there's no BFC/diificult terrain, if they hit your touch AC.
That's a lot of conditions, really. And that's assuming you're in an AMF or didn't put Blueshine or Everbright on your weapon/armor, assuming you're even wearing metal armor.
And even then it's still only a nuisance, not a threat. Because they can't actually hurt you.

There are item-destroying threats that are actually dangerous to PCs, but Rust Monsters just aren't one of them.
The only thing brutal about them is that a lot of player's are unreasonably terrified of losing even a single piece of gear.


They aren't a nightmare because they can kill you. They are a nightmare because they can take all of your stuff and your ability to get new stuff. Gold and silver are metal also.
So store your money in a bag instead of glueing it to your armor?
They can't touch it through cloth, can't dissolve it and they're really really unlikely to actually sunder it because their one attack sucks so hard it's practically non-existent.

They're not stealthy. They're not tough. Their attacks are not particularly accurate. They're not particularly fast on initiative. They have no dangerous abilities at all.
Really the only thing they have going for them is a 40ft movement speed and playing on most players worst fear - losing their shiny loot.

I guess in that sense they are a nightmare, in the same manner that children are terrified of the monster under the bed. A threat that doesn't actually exist in reality.

[Celestia]

Or gold (http://rustyandco.com/comic/34/), as the case may be. :smallbiggrin:

(Side note: really want to find a way to play as a rust monster sometime!)
I've always wanted to play a druid with a rust monster companion. "If I can't have metal armor, then no one can!"

[Kyrell1978]

I've always wanted to play a druid with a rust monster companion. "If I can't have metal armor, then no one can!"

That's awesome. You win dungeons and dragons.

[Shalist]

Rust monster wand (CS pg 120; 160 gold) is a dozen tiny (1") rust monster larva in a 1'-long flashlight-like tube that lets them affect metal surfaces when it's uncapped ('ruining' large armor in a minute). Perhaps they can be acquired in bulk? You might get some millage out of smuggling them into armories / dragon hoards / etc. as part of regular shipments / tributes / etc.. Perhaps take a more personal touch, and 'sleight of hand' a few somewhere inconvenient.

Simply scaring skittish players with illusions of them seems worth an honorable mention.

[Calthropstu]

Rust monster wand (CS pg 120; 160 gold) is a dozen tiny (1") rust monster larva in a 1'-long flashlight-like tube that lets them affect metal surfaces when it's uncapped ('ruining' large armor in a minute). Perhaps they can be acquired in bulk? You might get some millage out of smuggling them into armories / dragon hoards / etc. as part of regular shipments / tributes / etc.. Perhaps take a more personal touch, and 'sleight of hand' a few somewhere inconvenient.

Simply scaring skittish players with illusions of them seems worth an honorable mention.

Omg, brilliant.
An illusionary rust monster swarm.

[Kyrell1978]

Rust monster wand (CS pg 120; 160 gold) is a dozen tiny (1") rust monster larva in a 1'-long flashlight-like tube that lets them affect metal surfaces when it's uncapped ('ruining' large armor in a minute). Perhaps they can be acquired in bulk? You might get some millage out of smuggling them into armories / dragon hoards / etc. as part of regular shipments / tributes / etc.. Perhaps take a more personal touch, and 'sleight of hand' a few somewhere inconvenient.

Simply scaring skittish players with illusions of them seems worth an honorable mention.

This is fantastic. I'm probably stealing this sometime soon.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Rust monsters were created as a joke, and should be treated as such by DMs.
They'e not something that should be used in a serious/tactical capacity.

[Kyrell1978]

Rust monsters were created as a joke, and should be treated as such by DMs.
They'e not something that should be used in a serious/tactical capacity.
That's a fantastic opinion, now back to our regularly scheduled discussion. :smalltongue:

[Calthropstu]

Rust monsters were created as a joke, and should be treated as such by DMs.
They'e not something that should be used in a serious/tactical capacity.

Except they are one hell of a tactical boon. Rust monsters give MAJOR pause to most adventuring parties, especially in large numbers.

Losing even one piece of gear is a massive setback to most characters. And when it's the armor or weapon that they've pumped most of their ill-gotten gains into, no sane adventuring party would risk that.