Who should I play with my group? Tiefling bard or sorcerer?

[Fashionisdanger]

Hello! I am about to start a new campaign with a small group of friends. Our group is composed by four people (me included):
1) Half-elf hunter ranger (probably, not sure yet the subclass)
2) Hill Dwarf war cleric
3) Half-elf paladin of the ancient (a bit of a min-maxer, probably going for lots of damage)
4) Me, a tiefling charisma caster

So far, regardless of my class, I am going to get Ritual Caster and cover these skills: Deception, Persuasion, Arcane, Stealth and thieves tools.

Given that I am not going to play a wizard, I am considering the role of controller and I am torn between a wild magic sorcerer and a lore bard.
Lore bard seems sweet, because of the extra skills, but the wild magic sorcerer seems capable of some sweet moves with metamagic, along with being able to avoid running out of juice, thanks to sorcery points. Also, I know that the strength of bard lies in supporting, but the lack of offensive spells might make me useless in some situations.... Against undeads, for example, or other mind-magic immune fellas.

What do you think guys?

[Eragon123]

If you want those skills, lore bard is your best choice.

And it pains me to recommend anyone away from sorcerer.
I even made up a system for wild sorcerers if you are interested. Though you will need to discuss it with your DM.

Lore Bards make great controllers since they have bardic inspiration for buffs/debuffs that are not linked to concentration.

[Blood of Gaea]

Lore Bard seems to fit what you're going for better. Sorcerer is great at control, but Bard manages to do that pretty well and also be great at skills.

[Stygofthedump]

Read subtle spell very carefully and consider what it means, you might never want to play another caster.

[Honest Tiefling]

The bard is better if you want skills/control/support. You want flashy magic? That's usually going to be Sorcerer, hands down. Do you want to have offensive spells and destroy your enemies, or do you want to move the pieces around the game board to get desired results? A lack of offensive spells can be tricky, but I'm going to guess that your party can handle raw damage just fine on its own. As tempting as support is for some, others people just want to see the world burn from their own conjured spell fire, it's just a matter of taste. If you HATE the idea of relying on your allies to dish out the damage, go sorcerer.

However, is your group RP intensive? If it is, consider how the class choice would affect the character that you want to play and choose accordingly. I imagine a wild magic sorcerer might be on the move and have been chased out of several villages, especially one from an infernal bloodline. A bardic tiefling on the other hand, might be exploiting their 'dangerous' and 'evil' nature to get those puppets to dance without knowing it.

[Blood of Gaea]

The bard is better if you want skills/control/support. You want flashy magic? That's usually going to be Sorcerer, hands down. Do you want to have offensive spells and destroy your enemies, or do you want to move the pieces around the game board to get desired results? A lack of offensive spells can be tricky, but I'm going to guess that your party can handle raw damage just fine on its own.
It's not that tricky to do flashy damage spells as a Lore Bard, just steal things like fireball and destructive wave. You just don't necessarily use them quite as well as a Sorcerer.

[Honest Tiefling]

It's not that tricky to do flashy damage spells as a Lore Bard, just steal things like fireball and destructive wave. You just don't necessarily use them quite as well as a Sorcerer.

Yeah, but I'm trying to simplify the issue to try to make the selection easier. Both will be excellent choices, mind you.

Also, consider asking the Min Maxer for help. They might know of nifty combos with their own build, and probably know you better than we do.

[Blood of Gaea]

Yeah, but I'm trying to simplify the issue to try to make the selection easier. Both will be excellent choices, mind you.

Also, consider asking the Min Maxer for help. They might know of nifty combos with their own build, and probably know you better than we do.
The Min-Max option here would probably be a Sorcerer, being stingy with their points and saving them to dual cast buffs on the Paladin and Ranger (Maybe the Cleric instead of the Ranger, depending on the encounter).

[sophontteks]

You could check out the Glamour bard as well. The forum tends to overlook anything not directly related to combat, but glamour bard has a really crazy charm ability.

Basically 1/day you can perform for 1 minute and people up to your charisma must make a wis save or fall head over heels for you. Some strong reasons why you may want to consider this over more magic.
- Its incredibly unique and fun.
- Its not magic. So can't be countered, or even detected for the most part.
- Very useful way out of bad situations, like prisons.
- Those effected will inform you of any plots against you, breaking social encounters.
- Those effected will do anything for you outside of fighting for you.

Its basically a charm nuke.

Outside that Glamour also has one hell of a good insiration that effects the whole party in one go. Temp HP for everyone and they get to use their reaction to move without provoking AOE.

EDIT:
I also suggest sorcerers with subtle spell and twinned spell. Just grab haste and greater invisibility. Wala, your the best support. Grab phantasmal force and subtle cast. Wala, your the party face with some hilarious results.

Also try subtle casting catapult. Its so fun to make objects hit your enemy when they have no idea the cause. You are hurting them while dissuading them from fighting you. Why start a fight? They are far too concerned with their possessed junk.

[NinaWu]

Bard for the skill aspect and support. Probably what your party needs mostly by the sounds.
Lore bards are pretty cool all the same (IMO). You'll be everyone's favourite PC!

[Fashionisdanger]

Thank you guys! You really helped me nailing it down with your suggestions. At the end I have set with my DM to be a bard and I have already developed a cool backstory.
He is giving me chance to choose my subrace and I am probably going for Devil's Tongue for that extra "bardish" spin and some useful extra spells.
I am tending towards College of Lore but we will roleplay the whole college thing and we will see!

Bards got really a lot better since 3.5!

[Blood of Gaea]

Happy to help, have fun with your game.

[sophontteks]

Thank you guys! You really helped me nailing it down with your suggestions. At the end I have set with my DM to be a bard and I have already developed a cool backstory.
He is giving me chance to choose my subrace and I am probably going for Devil's Tongue for that extra "bardish" spin and some useful extra spells.
I am tending towards College of Lore but we will roleplay the whole college thing and we will see!

Bards got really a lot better since 3.5!
I went devils tongue for RP reasons, but fair warning, the spells you get with it are garbage. Well, except vicious mockery.

Charm person is great on a sorcerer with subtle spell. But with a bard there are very few times you'd risk them succeeding on their save as opposed to just using your social skills.

Enthrall is a contender for the worst spell in the game. Do we really need a spell to distract? It doesn't even charm them. They can still attack you. Its hopeless.

[Fashionisdanger]

The race is mostly for RP purposes, although I figured out ways to use those spells. But thanks for the input! I gave some thought to the racial spells because of that.

So, I was thinking about building my character this way.

Devil's Tongue Tiefling - Lore Bard

STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 13
INT: 13
WIS: 10
CHA: 17

ASI/Feats: Actor / +2 CHA / Ritual Caster (wizard) / Resilient (Con) / Anything needed (maybe Lucky)

Starting skills: Deception, Stealth, Persuasion, Perform, Arcane (I will be the only arcane expert)

Lore bard skills: Insight, Perception, Investigation (or Acrobatics)

Expertise: Arcane+Deception, Stealth+Perception


Solid and well rounded enough?

[Blood of Gaea]

Solid and well rounded enough?
Looks good to me.