being incapacitated by life transference

[Camman1984]

firstly, can I cast the spell if it is possible to definately going to incapacitate my cleric?

if it does take me too 0 hit points do I count as having taking the full damage rolled (as I know it counts for instant death) or just taking my remaining hit points worth of damage?

example scenario me and my barbarian friend are back to back, everyone else is down and i am badly beaten down to 5hp I use my last reserves to cast life transference thinking of the barbarian can just kill a couple more, we can all live. I roll my 4d8 and get 25 damage, I go down, but does he get 10hp back or 50?


as an aside does it count as an attack? so if I path to the grave myself (if I am really feeling self loathing) would I take 4d8x2 and them heal 4d8x4?

[Unoriginal]

Life Transference is not an attack, and the target get HPs equal to twice the damages you took. You stop taking damage when you reach 0 HPs, so the Barbarian would get 10.

Not sure what you mean by the "instant death" part of your post, but yes, it is possible to kill yourself with that spell. To die instantly, you must take damage that bring you to 0, then the excess damage being equal or higher than your current HP maximum.

So for example, for 25 pts of damage to be instantly lethal to you when you have 5 HPs, you'd need to have 20 as HP maximum.

[Kadesh]

firstly, can I cast the spell if it is possible to definately going to incapacitate my cleric?

if it does take me too 0 hit points do I count as having taking the full damage rolled (as I know it counts for instant death) or just taking my remaining hit points worth of damage?

example scenario me and my barbarian friend are back to back, everyone else is down and i am badly beaten down to 5hp I use my last reserves to cast life transference thinking of the barbarian can just kill a couple more, we can all live. I roll my 4d8 and get 25 damage, I go down, but does he get 10hp back or 50?


as an aside does it count as an attack? so if I path to the grave myself (if I am really feeling self loathing) would I take 4d8x2 and them heal 4d8x4?

1. Yes.
2. You cast the spell, take damage, and then subtract from hit points. The target gains the same value. You suffer instant death if the remaining damage after reducing you to 0 hit points is equal to, or greater than your maximum. To instant kill yourself, you'd need to have less than 25 hit points at your maximum, which at 5th level is something that you're unlikely to achieve unless you have a -1 or worse Constitution Modifier (average +0 Con mod Cleric has 28HP), or you roll really badly and don't take the averages. In listed example you'd take 4d8 damage (getting 25). Unless your maximum HP was 20 or lower (25-5 to reduce to 0, left over must equal or greater your maximum), you'd be taking knocked unconcious. The Barbarian would regain 50 hit points (up to his maximum)
3. No, this is not an attack, as there is no attack roll.

[Camman1984]

with the instant death part I was just referencing that you still pay attention to the amount of excess damage which takes you below zero for the purpose of calculating instant death. so i wondered if you did for this purpose.

[Camman1984]

2. You cast the spell, take damage, and then subtract from hit points. The target gains the same value. You suffer instant death if the remaining damage after reducing you to 0 hit points is equal to, or greater than your maximum. To instant kill yourself, you'd need to have less than 25 hit points at your maximum, which at 5th level is something that you're unlikely to achieve unless you have a -1 or worse Constitution Modifier (average +0 Con mod Cleric has 28HP), or you roll really badly and don't take the averages. In listed example you'd take 4d8 damage (getting 25). Unless your maximum HP was 20 or lower (25-5 to reduce to 0, left over must equal or greater your maximum), you'd be taking knocked unconcious. The Barbarian would regain 50 hit points (up to his maximum)

so what you are saying I take the damage and then work out hit points, so even if I only had 5hp left, I still took 25 damage and heal 50, leaving me on 0 but healing the barbarian much better off.

I am stacking con and eventually taking tough, I plan on being a selfless healer and using both this spell and warding bond very generously :)

[Kadesh]

so what you are saying I take the damage and then work out hit points, so even if I only had 5hp left, I still took 25 damage and heal 50, leaving me on 0 but healing the barbarian much better off.

I am stacking con and eventually taking tough, I plan on being a selfless healer and using both this spell and warding bond very generously :)

Going by pure RAW, but that allows janky things. Check with your DM before basing a build on something that might be considered cheesy. It's based on damage dealt, not damage taken. That said, it seems like a good plan - although bear in mind that a Barbarian gets no benefit from being Warding Bonded while Raging (save for the AC/Save bonus). If your plan is to tank a lot of damage, consider taking 3 levels of Frost Giant Soul Sorcerer as well. You pick up Armour of Agathys, Green Flame Blade should you ever need to attack (albeit keyed from Charisma), can trade in Sorcery Points to cast Armor of Agathys (self only, but Temp HP is always good if you intend to be trading yours to heal an ally) and Aid and can extend those spells for 24 hours, further giving you use of your higher level spell slots. That is unless you wish to take a lot of particularly higher level Cleric Spells, but as a Grave Cleric healer, you shouldn't need too many.

Also, consider Inspiring Leader in place of tough. Assuming 8th level, that's +16 HP from Tough per long rest, but if you take 2 or more short rest Inspiring Leader provides more HP not just for yourself, but for your party also.

It also allows for a lot more cool interactions I think for the party, as you can either try and convert someone to your faith. It doesn't have to be an in depth speech either, IMHO. I have a Druid with Inspiring Leader who lets the party pet my Corgi, I've been to an AL game with an Inspiring Leader Monk leading Tai Chi practise, while a Wolf Totem Barbarian/Lycan Bloodhunter (the player liked Werewolves) led a howl which got the DM's dogs joining in.

[Camman1984]

that's a cool idea, I have already built the character and his charisma is 8 so sorcerer is out haha. he is a deep gnome that wants to fatten everyone's souls up for the raven queen. he doesn't get along with people well, his charisma 8 and referring to the other party as morsels for the death goddess might have something to do with it.

he does not fear death, why would he as his mistress would welcome a loyal servant with open arms, so it only makes sense he risk his own life energy so when others die the they will take a richer life experience with them. He doesn't plan to convert them as their deaths will do that for him, he just wants them to know that death is nothing to fear, even if it is something they should not rush towards too quickly.

this spell just seems to fit that MO really well and our monk seems to love warding bond, I haven't told him what happens to the pain energy he avoids yet though :)

[Kadesh]

On a personal level I'm glad I'm not playing in a game with Edgy McEdgelord, but if your other players and their characters are okay with being constantly insulted or derided without just killing him, more power to you.

[Camman1984]

you misunderstand me, he isn't edgey at all, he is fairly light hearted, leading a full life means a fatter soul, so he intends to enjoy his. he is just very casual talking about death and doesn't fear the time he is taken. due to his race background and job role he is poorly socialised and just hasn't learned that death is more taboo in a lot of cultures. so when he describes someone as a morsel for the raven queen, to him it is just a tasty treat rather than something darker.

[Camman1984]

tasty morsel is a compliment in his eyes and represents him being awed by how rich their soul is :)

[Dalebert]

It's based on the dmg you take and you took all 25. If you stopped taking dmg when you hit 0, then there would be no danger of instant death from taking massive dmg... but there is. So you took it all. And you heal 50.

Now if you had resistance, that would be a different matter. Then you only took 12 dmg (and dropped to 0) and you only healed 24.

[Laserlight]

It's based on the dmg you take and you took all 25. If you stopped taking dmg when you hit 0.

Not correct. Your minimum HP is zero, see PHB 196.

Instant Death is on p 197:
"Massive damage can kill you instantly. When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum.
For example, a cleric w ith a maximum of 12 hit points currently has 6 hit points. If she takes 18 damage from an attack, she is reduced to 0 hit points, but 12 damage remains. Because the remaining damage equals her hit point maximum, the cleric dies."

[Dalebert]

Obviously she drops to zero. Negative hp aren't a thing in 5th, but she still "took" all the dmg. It's even in the example that you quoted:


If she takes 18 damage from an attack...

What we've been talking about are the effects of taking the dmg (dropping to zero and possibly dying instantly0 but she still took the dmg, i.e. she was hit and affected by an 18 dmg attack.

This is the point I was trying to make. If you have 6 hp left and someone hits you for 18hp, you don't negate all but 6 hp simply because that's all you have left. You can't drop lower than zero but you took 18. You consider the entire 18 to determine if you die instantly because that is the amount of damage you took! You would take the remaining 12 and compare it to your max because you still took the remaining 12 and it still has an effect, i.e. the potential to instantly kill you.

So yes, she took it and she would deliver twice that amount in healing. On the other hand, if she had resistance to necrotic, she would only "take" 9 dmg and only deliver 18 healing.

[ad_hoc]

you misunderstand me, he isn't edgey at all, he is fairly light hearted, leading a full life means a fatter soul, so he intends to enjoy his. he is just very casual talking about death and doesn't fear the time he is taken. due to his race background and job role he is poorly socialised and just hasn't learned that death is more taboo in a lot of cultures. so when he describes someone as a morsel for the raven queen, to him it is just a tasty treat rather than something darker.

I think people understand that you are justifying it.

The result remains the same. You created the character. You are still responsible for the character's actions/attitude.

[Camman1984]

I think people understand that you are justifying it.

The result remains the same. You created the character. You are still responsible for the character's actions/attitude.

maybe we just have different definitions of edgey then. I would describe edgey in the same way someone might say goth, sullen, depressing, everything is darkness. my character is trying to be friendly and is pretty light hearted. He is more like when a lot of elderly people become very relaxed about death as they approach it.

I guess it is about delivery rather than the specific beliefs, people seem to like playing with him and his raven and that's the main thing isn't it :)

[Kadesh]

maybe we just have different definitions of edgey then. I would describe edgey in the same way someone might say goth, sullen, depressing, everything is darkness. my character is trying to be friendly and is pretty light hearted. He is more like when a lot of elderly people become very relaxed about death as they approach it.

I guess it is about delivery rather than the specific beliefs, people seem to like playing with him and his raven and that's the main thing isn't it :)
Correct. As long as your immediate playing group are okay with it, that's fine. Be prepared from other peoples responses to be somewhat similar.

But no, it does come across as edgelord from how it was described regardless of how "justified" you believe it to be. I say that as someone playing a Long Death Monk and a Sorcerer based around Pestilence and Plague.

[Camman1984]

at least this character's parents and closest friends are alive and well, even if he hasn't been able to get back home much since he joined the adventuring party :)


thanks for the advice on life transference, my party will be grateful to hear they have mote healing coming their way.