3.5 size/type changes

[jdizzlean]

is there a way to permanently be considered Medium instead of Large?

is there a way to instead of being considered vermin to instead be considered an animal?

[Necroticplague]

Define what you mean by 'considered'.

Dungeonbred can do the first, as could using Permanency on reduce person (assuming Humanoid type).

Polymorph and Alter Self can do the latter, though probably not in the way you would prefer.

[jdizzlean]

you have a large thing, and you want the large thing to be a medium thing so you can apply other things to it

so considered medium instead of large :p

[Zaq]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?132294-Tiny-Von-BigMcLargeHuge) probably isn't something that transfers arbitrarily to whatever specific trick you're trying to do, but it's amusing enough to bring it up now and again.

[Necroticplague]

you have a large thing, and you want the large thing to be a medium thing so you can apply other things to it

so considered medium instead of large :p
......O.k, you're contradiction in this statement that I bolded was the original point of confusion: is actually being medium O.K, or are you looking for something more esoteric for the cake-having and eating.


This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?132294-Tiny-Von-BigMcLargeHuge) probably isn't something that transfers arbitrarily to whatever specific trick you're trying to do, but it's amusing enough to bring it up now and again.
It's also not remotely functional on several levels.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Vermin can use aspect of the wolf to be treated as animal for the duration. That with compression should sort you out.

[jdizzlean]

i need the vermin to be an animal in type so that i can apply awakened to it. I suppose by strictest sense of raw that it IS an animal for that 10min/lvl, but would the awakened aspect of it still be in place when it reverts back to vermin? However "Awaken" takes 24 hours to cast, so there's no way aspect would suffice unless somehow it was able to be cast like 15x in a row by yourself since you can't cast that on someone else...


or is there another way to give a vermin an intelligence score so that it's not mindless anymore?


also, i need the vermin instead of being large, to be medium so that i can apply a template to it that requires it to be no larger than medium.

back to hitting the books i guess..

[Thurbane]

A 9th level Master of Flies (SS) can Awaken Vermin 1/week.

[jdizzlean]

A 9th level Master of Flies (SS) can Awaken Vermin 1/week.

that would work for that part of it, now to just figure out if i can do the other part

[Thurbane]

that would work for that part of it, now to just figure out if i can do the other part

Ring of Reduction (LoM, p.130)?

[jdizzlean]

that would've worked, but turns out i can't fit that template into what i'm trying to do, so all my questions are answered, thanks, but i'll keep that in mind for any future abuses, ahem, uses :)

[unseenmage]

There's also the Awaken Vermin spell in an old Dragon Magazine somewhere.

[Darrin]

As Necroticplague mentioned, the Dungeonbred template (Dungeonscape p. 112) can be applied to a large-sized vermin to knock the size down to medium.

To give it an Int score, you can apply the Fiendish template (MM) for an Int score of 3. Pseudonatural (Lords of Madness) can also give it an Int of 3, but doesn't have a Level Adjustment listed. You can apply Half-Dragon after that to give it a slightly higher Int score (+2 Int).

If you want to use aspect of the wolf to change type to animal, you can use a Skull Talisman (Frostburn) or a Glyph Seal (Magic Item Compendium) to get around the "Range: Personal". They can also be used to get around the 24-hour casting time of awaken, as it's a standard action to break a skull talisman or a move/free action to trigger a Glyph Seal.

As far as whether the creature retains its ability scores after the transformation spell wears off... that's probably something you'll need to work out with the DM, but as far as RAW goes, aspect of the wolf says you retain your mental ability scores while you're an animal, and they don't change when the spell ends.

(Note: you might also want to gate to a plane with a magic trait that auto-Maximizes all spells, so your verminal-watchamacallit get 18 Int and +3 Cha.)

[jdizzlean]

awesome, now i'm building 2 separate versions of the same thing

this is going to be fun :)

[Thurbane]

There's also the Awaken Vermin spell in an old Dragon Magazine somewhere.

Does anyone have a source for this?

Because I checked DragonDex (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/spells.html) and came up empty...

[unseenmage]

Does anyone have a source for this?

Because I checked DragonDex (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/spells.html) and came up empty...
Could have sworn it was in Dragon 304 (?) along with Awaken Magical Beast and Awaken Ooze...

Somehow I remember that Aberration was the only thing I couldn't figure out how to awaken way back when such was a goal of mine.
(Newborn Illithid larvae use the stats for the toad and I wanted to play as one.)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can polymorph the vermin into an animal and awaken it then.

Also, there's the shrink collar, from the A&EG, which shrinks (or grows) a creature of any size to Small. It keeps its stats, so The Tiny TarrasqueTM will still have its ridunkulous Strength score.

[ShurikVch]

Does anyone have a source for this?

Because I checked DragonDex (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/spells.html) and came up empty...It's not a spell, but SLA - it's 9th-level CF for Master of Flies PrC