Half Sherlock Half Paladin/Hexblade/Swashbuckler

[Starman973]

Okay this is more of a concept refinement. Here is the concept. Half-Elf son of a Single mother that is a human maid for rich and affluent families. As he grows up seeing the injustices of an upstairs downstairs upbringing, he starts to detest those who get away with doing wrong. When he can finally take a job he joins the city watch so he can start creating justice. a Crime wave come through the city and his mother gets unjustly accused. he not only manages to get her charges dropped, but steps over the head of his superiors to gain the rank of investigator. so that covers the basics of of the concept at the moment.
Race: Half-Elf (I haven't gone thought the options for the options in Scag here, but I think not taking the option here is best.)
Background: Investigator (City Watch) this is the most Sherlock part about him
Starting Class: Rogue (to later build into Swashbuckler) This is more about the fluidity of a Sherlock fight and not the tactics of his fights.

Now for the parts that needs help. I know that Hexblade works amazingly with Swashbuckler and makes them nasty at low levels. But I can't see going to rank 9 in Swashbuckler even though I know Sherlock can charm a person, more often than not he only did that when he couldn't fight. So I am thinking never go past level 8 in swashbuckler. As I look into Warlock I know that level 6 is something that I don't want. having people I just killed fight for me as wraiths doesn't work in a Sherlock way. So I figure don't go above rank 4 in Hexblade. Now for a while I pondered the different options. I figured I was sword and boarding it for weapons, more of a Duelist. I figured I could Go Paladin, I currently am wavering between Devotion (to justice) or Vengeance. Now this would allow me to go duelist in fighting style, gain an extra attack I would of gotten from thirsty blade I would of gotten from level 5 Warlock. Devotion's Channel Divinity sacred weapon would stand in for Lifedrinker eldritch invocation I could of had if I maxed out the rest as Warlock. Or with Vengeance I could do the Oath of Enmity which gives me advantage on my attacks. So you can see why I waver.

So here is my question, Considering my concept, which paladin oath of the two mentioned would fit best?

And the next question, is Harder. How could someone be a Paladin/Hexblade-Swashbuckler? I mean, I got a Shadowfell blade telling me that I should kill stuff in my hand, while wearing the symbol, of a different god that wants justice or Vengeance. How does that Happen in game? Does one of the oaths make more sense for working with a Hexblade than the other? Assume the setting of the Sword Coast. Some help please.

[Banana3lf]

I think its a fantastic idea and you are on a excellent path.
Perhaps you soul is wavering between your patron and your god.
I am currently playing a barbarian fighter paladin warlock and its very nice to have for rp that ever constant struggle between two ways of life. You want to do the right thing...but you are very good at following your patron in exchange for those powers.

Your cha will have to be high but if your goal is sherlock your intellegence should be first choice. As a rogue it is nice to have that expertise on investigation and push dex highest then int then wis. I would stay in rogue until 7 and then go warlock. Id do varient human with the observer feat and Id expertise perception investigation insight and sleight of hand. Then pick up hexblades curse and finish off with hexblade. I would actually go up to lvl 9 in warlock and do just 3 lvls of paladin.
What this allows you to do is at lvl 8 rogue 9 warlock and 3 paladin you could really capstone this build with the hexblades curse and advantage from vengence for a 19% to crit and on that crit you could expend in one hit a 5th lvl spell slot for smite doing 12d8 from paladin and anouther 10d8 from warlock eldritch smite for a total of with a rapier 23d8 in one hit along with 8d6 sneak attack.
For a multiclassing build I dont think you will loose out on much. Its a really good paring and you should be proud. Most people would try to do a wizzard build for a sherlock but I think youve nailed the gist of what the start should look like.

[Starman973]

His deductive skills won't come from his vast knowledge of information as the Show Psyche proved just having great observational skills can aid deductive reasoning, and using his charisma to get people to reveal information they did not intend to show. Like how Black Widow reverse interrogates Loki. So a High Intelligence isn't needed. I am glad you agree on the 8 rogue and I know there are some nice warlock things beyond level 6, it is the level 6 Hexblade ability that makes me not want to get it, and since level 5 gets you nothing, 4 is the warlock cap.
Being Half-elf is a fixture to the concept, but I agree if I can get alert and observant, the character would be a power house. I'm not going into the feats for the concepts, because we have no stats, I have no definite start for this build as it is for a yet to be started potential future campaign. Most often we do rolled 4D6 stats, and they can be very kind at times. So I know I will focus on Charisma, but try to start with a 16 dex, but because of how hexblade works, I will never need to raise dex and wear Medium armor. having a decent wisdom score would be nice for my perception skill, but I know I will take expertise in that. so Since stat raise won't be going to dex, once I have charisma maxed, I can get Feats. But this isn't about that.

How does having a Patron and a God that you serve as a Paladin work? How does a Warlock become also a paladin? Or is it easier for a Paladin start to slip and ask for favors of a Lower power and become a Warlock? How do you RP that at the table? how does you god react to you when you started using a patron? Is this a temptation of the blade itself, could my rogue just find a blade that tempts him to the patron and his devotion to a god as a paladin is him trying to make right when he once went wrong?

Personally I will admit I think Devotion to Truth is the better thematic path for the concept, then I would still have to figure out what god that is for justice would not care if a Hexblade is the means of that justice.

[Banana3lf]

I personally am a huge fan of devotion line and if you ca. Id go that route.
If you are just going 4 lvls into warlock I actually would suggest against hexblades curse and Id go pact of the tome great old one. Sure you cant bamf a weapon out of thin air but you can interrogate silently in peoples heads and booming blade with swashbuckler could be fantastic.
Lvl 5 hexblade will give you extra attack so with duel wielding yoid be at 3 per round by whenever you get there. Easy enough to get the same affect with booming blade and a dagger in the off hand though.

My Barbarian has an affinty with truth and justice ever since he stole weapons from a merchant and ended up getting that merchant killed. His faith was found in search of doing what is right. As he failed to protect his friends when his gnome wizzard friend died in his arms (same one that taught him to read) he made a deal with a being that only has ever appeared in his dreams. The first time this being made his appearance was during a battle royale in a dream that the barbarian remembers but the group does not as he killed all of them. The being gives him strength in areas and feeds off of his unifying them of protection and dealing out the truth in pain. For Durtz (the barbarian paladin warlock fighter) he feels confident for now that his patron is kind enough to grant him what he needs in exchange for a later favor. While this...sin as it twere has slightly separated him from his god and servanthood in that area he at his core still holds true to Kord in that how he acts with others will always be in those interests and sometimes in the interest of his patron. Neither are battling for him but working together as they see fit in a way.

I do DM a game where a gunslinger is caught between tymora the godess of luck and the godess of misfortune. He role plays this with his lucky feat and demonstrates the rp much like you would if you were an eladrin elf switching seasons. Different personalities slightly suffering from being bipolar.

Rogue 8 for sure. 4d6 sneak vs 5d6 isnt even worth the lvl. And leveling for that feat at 10 is not what its about. Its not about feats or math or making it perfect its about the character. I think you get that. You only need a 14 at best in wisdom for a passive perception of 23 at lvl 5 with observant. So cha and dex could have the higher two you role
Id skip alert and go for keen mind and id throw the rest at asi's to be very effecient. Str and int are common dump stats and it will serv you well. Dont throw away constitution though if you can help it.

The progression Id recommend for swashbuckler/hexblade bladelock/devotion (and I would say devotion because as a swashbuckler advantagde isnt as important.) Is rogue 5 paladin 2 warlock 4 rogue 5-8 paladin 3 leaving you 8 levels to do what you feel is good at that point.

Progression for swashbuckler/great old one tomelock/devotion would be rogue 4 warlock 4 paladin 2 rogue 4-8 warlock 4-7(so you can see through objects 30 feet around you at all times) paladin 2-3 warlock 7-9. Booming blade with sneak attack with two lvl 5 slots going into smites for 30d8+8d6(6d8x2 smite+5d8x2 eldritch smite+4d6 sneak attackx2+3d8 booming bladex2)on a crit with 8d8 when they move to get you which hopefully they will since you dashed away with a bonus action without provoking any opportunity attacks. Lvl 20 with a 3 multiclass kick like that and any scoffers you get that say you shouldnt multiclass will be shut down immediately.

What would be his watson if he had one? Im all for find familiar through tomelock ancient book of secrets and calling your owl or cat watson. But if you could get someone in the group on board what would that look like?

[Starman973]

As far as I can figure being an Investigator put him at a slightly higher rank than a regular city watch, kind of like the difference between a regular patrol man and a detective. So when he comes to any scene that he is called to the first officers who called in the crime becomes his John Watson. I will admit I am trying to do a blend , I am not completely number crunching the character so that I can stay on concept, hence the lack of wraiths fighting at my side as a level 6 hex-blade fighter. Now I know that people commonly do the booming blade trick and it works well with the Fancy footwork of the swashbuckler. Once you are able to attack twice you would have to give up the booming blade trick, so it make sense for a while, but I wouldn't keep it. I might use fancy footwork more to stick and move in a fight to go where I can serve the fight best. I get tired of seeing the casters that wear cloth getting taken down by entering into melee. I know I'm weird in this way.

Currently I have an Eldritch Knight that has the Find Familiar spell and I have never made the familiar an Owl so the owl could give me advantage throughthe help action in a fight. It doesn't fit how the character would a familiar. The Character has trust issues he uses his cat familiar to spy on everyone back home, including his family members. Even my DM took me aside once recently and asked, why I stopped flying with my Tiefling wings and stood on the ground next to my fellow player and fought in Melee instead of staying out of the way and shooting with my bow and Arrow. I rephrased the question back at him and asked, you mean, why did I help out someone, that I see as a kinsman, from getting surrounded and overcome by numbers instead of keeping to the safety of the air and keeping my advantage. I guess that is where my moral compass lies. I give up my advantage or additional damage if it means a party member survives the conflict.

I guess you can say this is how I'm trying to think more tactically of the fight as a whole and not just about the foe in front of me. Or at least that's how Sherlock would look at it. You don't know how many times, I'm caught up in Melee and can't help my fellow players when they clearly need it. The Cloth wearing casters are getting smarter about their tactics, but it a hard lessoned learned with a lot of death saving throws made along the way.

[Banana3lf]

That is a very good point. I will take this to my home game. We always have a problem with people not getting involved because they are safe but if its part of your character to jump in to save someone-screw the extra dps. If you played a beefy cleric this way you could move mountains.

In my campaign though I am the only one engaging in melee combat. But to be fair a wizzard a bard a warlock and a blind druid cant do much next to a barbarian.

If you could prospect a build for a john watson what would that look like next to this character and how would interact?

[Starman973]

If a John Watson was chosen by another player, I don't think there is a good, build outside of a Fighter that would fit, the only expertise he would add would be medical. Though personally, I think if someone rolls with Sherlock he needs stealth, so maybe a Rogue Fighter build. Personally I think game play wise it would work better as an NPC. Mostly because the DM would know the actual reason why things happens, so when they portray John, you know they are pointing you in the wrong direction which is the true purpose of John in an investigation. And with the red herring option revealed, you can then pick the next option. I was thinking, Eldritch Sight and either Beguiling influence or Improved Pact weapon for eldritch invocations. the added info of knowing if magic was used, if it was what school, and just how powerful, can help so much.