Geddy2112
2018-09-04, 12:57 AM
Hello Playground,
I have been thinking on how to resolve the mechanics of a party encountering creatures that are monsters in the bestiary, but on the surface appear as nothing more than objects. This came up when I was thinking about the cassisian angel (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/angel/angel-cassisian/).
It is described as follows:
"This finely crafted golden helm is decorated with intricate filigree, and flutters gracefully through the air on feathered wings...A cassisian’s true form is a helmet possessing a pair of bird’s wings. The exact style of helmet varies by the deity the angel serves—most appear to be steel with angular cheek-plates, though some resemble bascinets, skullcaps, great helms, or even samurai helmets, and a few older cassisians appear to be bronze or even leather."
So a Cassisian angel, by description, that is not moving, could easily blend into a pile of gear, or a hall of antique armor, as nothing out of the ordinary. However, this creature lacks the freeze universal monster ability to hide as an animate object. It also lacks hide in plain sight or a similar ability. It does have a +8 in stealth, and stealth is used for the freeze ability and hide in plain sight(HIPS), however, I believe that it would be more along the lines of bluff or disguise to convince other creatures it is an object. The text of freeze states "The creature can hold itself so still it appears to be an inanimate object of the appropriate shape (a statue, patch of fungus, and so on). The creature can take 20 on its Stealth check to hide in plain sight as this kind of inanimate object." suggesting that stealth is what would be used for such a check if even possible.
Expanding this further, lets consider things like animate objects or constructs that can appear as statues. What do you do in these situations when the creature does not have freeze, HIPS or some similar mechanic. Is it fair for the DM to fiat give freeze or some similar ability for it to attempt to hide? What about knowledge checks, when the creature is clearly visible? Even a statue of a creature that is unusual could be warranted, and inform the party these creatures can either mimic objects or ARE objects?
To break it down, I will go through the possible outcomes of a party walking into a room with a cassisian angel, how would they see it? Assuming the cassisian is in helmet form and not moving or doing anything that would obviously give it away.
-The cassisian has no special abilities and can roll stealth, opposed by perception as normal.
-The cassisian can roll stealth opposed by perception, but can hide in plain sight and/or freeze.
-The cassisian can attempt a disguise check to disguise themselves as a normal helmet, opposed by perception
-The cassisian if clearly visible is a DC 0 perception check, and so long as the party passes this(no other circumstances raising the perception DC) they know it is a creature.
But when does a knowledge check come into question?
-The party must beat a perception against stealth(no HIPS or freeze) or see it in the open and can roll a knowledge to ID, knowing it is a creature?
-The party must do the above, but also pass a knowledge roll to realize it is a creature?
- The party must beat the disguise DC to realize this is a creature, and then roll knowledge?
-The party clearly sees the creature(as a creature), and a knowledge check to identify what it is?
-The party clearly sees the creature(not realizing it is a creature) and must pass a relevant knowledge check to realize what it is(a creature and abilities etc?)?
Obviously, detect spells and similar magic along with interactions will clearly give it away, but only if the party chooses to do this. The description of a cassisian and many other object/objectlike creatures will flag as unusual to most players and characters.
So, how do you deal with such things at your table? RAI and RAW encouraged.
Bonus points, cassisian angels can qualify as improved familiars. Let's say your cassisian angel familiar was cool with being worn as a helmet in its natural form. How in the heck would you rule encounters where it was trying to pretend it was just a helmet of the caster, doing absolutely nothing to tip off observers?
I have been thinking on how to resolve the mechanics of a party encountering creatures that are monsters in the bestiary, but on the surface appear as nothing more than objects. This came up when I was thinking about the cassisian angel (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/angel/angel-cassisian/).
It is described as follows:
"This finely crafted golden helm is decorated with intricate filigree, and flutters gracefully through the air on feathered wings...A cassisian’s true form is a helmet possessing a pair of bird’s wings. The exact style of helmet varies by the deity the angel serves—most appear to be steel with angular cheek-plates, though some resemble bascinets, skullcaps, great helms, or even samurai helmets, and a few older cassisians appear to be bronze or even leather."
So a Cassisian angel, by description, that is not moving, could easily blend into a pile of gear, or a hall of antique armor, as nothing out of the ordinary. However, this creature lacks the freeze universal monster ability to hide as an animate object. It also lacks hide in plain sight or a similar ability. It does have a +8 in stealth, and stealth is used for the freeze ability and hide in plain sight(HIPS), however, I believe that it would be more along the lines of bluff or disguise to convince other creatures it is an object. The text of freeze states "The creature can hold itself so still it appears to be an inanimate object of the appropriate shape (a statue, patch of fungus, and so on). The creature can take 20 on its Stealth check to hide in plain sight as this kind of inanimate object." suggesting that stealth is what would be used for such a check if even possible.
Expanding this further, lets consider things like animate objects or constructs that can appear as statues. What do you do in these situations when the creature does not have freeze, HIPS or some similar mechanic. Is it fair for the DM to fiat give freeze or some similar ability for it to attempt to hide? What about knowledge checks, when the creature is clearly visible? Even a statue of a creature that is unusual could be warranted, and inform the party these creatures can either mimic objects or ARE objects?
To break it down, I will go through the possible outcomes of a party walking into a room with a cassisian angel, how would they see it? Assuming the cassisian is in helmet form and not moving or doing anything that would obviously give it away.
-The cassisian has no special abilities and can roll stealth, opposed by perception as normal.
-The cassisian can roll stealth opposed by perception, but can hide in plain sight and/or freeze.
-The cassisian can attempt a disguise check to disguise themselves as a normal helmet, opposed by perception
-The cassisian if clearly visible is a DC 0 perception check, and so long as the party passes this(no other circumstances raising the perception DC) they know it is a creature.
But when does a knowledge check come into question?
-The party must beat a perception against stealth(no HIPS or freeze) or see it in the open and can roll a knowledge to ID, knowing it is a creature?
-The party must do the above, but also pass a knowledge roll to realize it is a creature?
- The party must beat the disguise DC to realize this is a creature, and then roll knowledge?
-The party clearly sees the creature(as a creature), and a knowledge check to identify what it is?
-The party clearly sees the creature(not realizing it is a creature) and must pass a relevant knowledge check to realize what it is(a creature and abilities etc?)?
Obviously, detect spells and similar magic along with interactions will clearly give it away, but only if the party chooses to do this. The description of a cassisian and many other object/objectlike creatures will flag as unusual to most players and characters.
So, how do you deal with such things at your table? RAI and RAW encouraged.
Bonus points, cassisian angels can qualify as improved familiars. Let's say your cassisian angel familiar was cool with being worn as a helmet in its natural form. How in the heck would you rule encounters where it was trying to pretend it was just a helmet of the caster, doing absolutely nothing to tip off observers?