Spring Attack and Charging.

[...Eh?]

If you charge, can you use spring attack to move again afterwards? I know you can only charge in a straight line, but if the charge action ends after you stop moving and start attacking, then it could work, couldn't it? I'm making a character with maxed ranks in Jump, as well as Leap Attack, so I'm not sure how well Spring Attack would fit with that. (Coincidentally, the campaign is a PbP here.) Actually, come to think of it, what are the rules for Jump in combat? Assuming you want to jump over a 6' tall human, you'd need to make a DC 10 for distance and 24 for height, right? Are there any feats that fit both the "Look at how high I can jump" fluff and are still usable in combat?

[SCPRedMage]

Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after.
No, you can't.

Unless your DM let's you take the Flipping Attack feat located in the Fighter Chain Feats article under the Gaming section on this site...

[...Eh?]

Alright, so Leap Attack is a poor choice, since I can't charge and Spring Attack. That gives me a free slot for a good feat. Are there any Jump-oriented combat feats I'm missing somewhere? If not, then I might just take Stand Still, since I'm using a weapon kind of like a spiked chain in terms of reach. Stop the enemy, then full attack and take a five foot sep backwards so I can repeat the process.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

No, you cannot. Spring Attack can only be used in conjunction with the Attack action, which is a standard action. Charge is a full-round action (though it can be performed as a standard action under certain circumstances)/

[dyslexicfaser]

Alright, so Leap Attack is a poor choice, since I can't charge and Spring Attack. That gives me a free slot for a good feat. Are there any Jump-oriented combat feats I'm missing somewhere? If not, then I might just take Stand Still, since I'm using a weapon kind of like a spiked chain in terms of reach. Stop the enemy, then full attack and take a five foot sep backwards so I can repeat the process.
Just make sure not to fight near any cliffs.

There aren't many other Jump feats. There's Leap to the Heavens that improves jumping, and a tactical feat called Raptor-something-or-other from CWar, but that's all I can think of.

[Bob_the_Mighty]

Actually, I think there might have been a jump kick feet in the Book of Nine Swords. I'm not really sure, though.

[dyslexicfaser]

All I can think of in ToB is Snap Kick, which is just an extra attack.

[AslanCross]

Leap of the Heavens from PHB2 and the Leaping Dragon stance from ToB are about the most you get in terms of leap augmentation.

[...Eh?]

Actually, I was thinking about this, and if you jump over a threatened square as part of your movement, does it still provoke an AoO? And does a Jump check count against your total land speed?

[Arbitrarity]

Likely. ToB manuvers from Tiger Claw which have jumping involved specify that they don't provoke AOO's, or that one can make tumble checks. Under other circumstances? You're leaving a threatened square, jumping or not.

And the jump skill specifies that motion as part of a jump counts as movement as normal.

[ocato]

Alright, so Leap Attack is a poor choice, since I can't charge and Spring Attack. That gives me a free slot for a good feat. Are there any Jump-oriented combat feats I'm missing somewhere? If not, then I might just take Stand Still, since I'm using a weapon kind of like a spiked chain in terms of reach. Stop the enemy, then full attack and take a five foot sep backwards so I can repeat the process.


Keep Leap Attack. It seems to fit your flavor and it is pretty much a staple of melee damage builds.

[Raolin_Fenix]

If you want to do this, you might want to consider mounted fighting. It'll cost you an extra feat (Mounted Combat), but you get Ride-By Attack and can do just that.

Although it would sort of mess up your jumping thing.

[Fax Celestis]

Although it would sort of mess up your jumping thing.

Try a flying mount!

EDIT: Or a greenspawn leaper, from the MM-IV.

[...Eh?]

The campaign is going to start in a city and probably stay there, so mounts aren't really a good idea, unless I keep mine in a bag of holding. Anyways, I'm kind of stuck on what feats to pick, since jump and Spring Attack don;t work well together. (Jumping over someone takes a 20 ft. running start and a ten foot jump, so if I jump, I can't move away.) Here are my idea as of right now:

(1) EWP: Duom (Think spiked chain, but with 1d8 damage, x3 crit, and +2 on the first adjacent attack)
(Human) Dodge
(Fighter 1) Mobility
(Fighter 2) Combat Expertise
(3) Power Attack
(Fighter 4) Spring Attack
(6) Leap Attack
(Fighter 6) Whirlwind Attack

Alternately:

(1) EWP: Duom
(Human) Power Attack
(Fighter 1) Leap Attack
(Fighter 2) Stand Still
(3) Leap of the Heavens
(Fighter 4) Combat Reflexes
(6) Athletic
(Fighter 6) Something else

Or:

(1) EWP: Duom
(Human) Dodge
(Fighter 1) Mobility
(Fighter 2) Power Attack
(3) Leap Attack
(Fighter 4) Spring Attack
(6) Leap of the Heavens
(Fighter 6) Combat Expertise

For the last one, I'd take Whirlwind Attack at level 8.

So, suggestions, comments, make a different build, ect?

[dyslexicfaser]

If you took Leap of the Heavens, you could do the jump-and-run if you wanted, since after you take the feat, a standing jump doesn't double the DC, which means you wouldn't need the 20-foot running start. Might not be worth it, though.

All this talk of leaping reminds me: what about Battle Jump from Unapproachable East? You'd need to either drop down on the enemy, or make a DC40 standing/running jump to clear a medium enemy's head enough to trigger it, but it doubles your weapon damage like a lance does for mounted charges.

[Reinboom]

No, you cannot. Spring Attack can only be used in conjunction with the Attack action, which is a standard action. Charge is a full-round action (though it can be performed as a standard action under certain circumstances)/

I have a follow up question for this. If you are limited down to only a standard action, then could you do a spring attack charge?

[ocato]

All this talk of leaping reminds me: what about Battle Jump from Unapproachable East? You'd need to either drop down on the enemy, or make a DC40 standing/running jump to clear a medium enemy's head enough to trigger it, but it doubles your weapon damage like a lance does for mounted charges.

While I am not intimately familiar with this, I believe leap attack to be better. It makes your power attacks yield 1:2 with a one hander or 1:3 with a two hander and the DC you have to make is significantly lower (10 for a 10' jump if I recall correctly, and the feat requires 8 ranks to get). Since you are going to be power attacking as much as possible as a melee character, I think the 1:3 ratio will definately make its money.

[...Eh?]

If you took Leap of the Heavens, you could do the jump-and-run if you wanted, since after you take the feat, a standing jump doesn't double the DC, which means you wouldn't need the 20-foot running start. Might not be worth it, though.

All this talk of leaping reminds me: what about Battle Jump from Unapproachable East? You'd need to either drop down on the enemy, or make a DC40 standing/running jump to clear a medium enemy's head enough to trigger it, but it doubles your weapon damage like a lance does for mounted charges.

Maybe at level 20, at which point it *might* be likely. You'd need to be a thri-keen or whatever that has the +30 to jump to even consider that, though.

[Reinboom]

Maybe at level 20, at which point it *might* be likely. You'd need to be a thri-keen or whatever that has the +30 to jump to even consider that, though.

For a DC 40?

Skill Focus jump, Acrobatic, 16 str. (+8), ring of jumping (+10). low roll of 1, so. 19. You need 21 ranks—level 18—to do a DC 40 everytime.
That's not using str boosting items, max str, or anything with a racial bonus among other tricks to boost skills.

[dyslexicfaser]

Easy to do for monks, scouts, and similar, since you get +4 to jump for every +10 movement above 30 you have. Beyond that - the Run feat gives you +4 to running jumps, and Leap of the Heavens gives you +5.

It's surprisingly easy if you make a build for it. I think I saw a level 6 human scout that could make it on a roll of 8 with his only +move item being a Boots of Striding and Springing.

[...Eh?]

I have a follow up question for this. If you are limited down to only a standard action, then could you do a spring attack charge?

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but attack is the only action you can make when you use spring attack, not just any standard action. Think Ride-By Attack.


While I am not intimately familiar with this, I believe leap attack to be better. It makes your power attacks yield 1:2 with a one hander or 1:3 with a two hander and the DC you have to make is significantly lower (10 for a 10' jump if I recall correctly, and the feat requires 8 ranks to get). Since you are going to be power attacking as much as possible as a melee character, I think the 1:3 ratio will definately make its money.

Actually, you could probably do both. Twenty feet forewards because you have to for Leap Attack to work, then make the ten foot jump (I'm assuming that's the height, since that's what DC 40 would be) into the air, then land and have triple power attack x2, so if you gave up, say 5 points of accuracy, you're dealing at least 32 (1+(5x3)x2=32) points of damage. Not too shabby, huh?


For a DC 40?

Skill Focus jump, Acrobatic, 16 str. (+8), ring of jumping (+10). low roll of 1, so. 19. You need 21 ranks—level 18—to do a DC 40 everytime.
That's not using str boosting items, max str, or anything with a racial bonus among other tricks to boost skills.

Hm. Still, exempting LA races (since if we were talking LA, we could, once again, take whatever race it is that gives +30 to jump checks and be done with it) you've got a +13 modifier at most (24 str from 18, +2 racial, and 4 levels make +7 mod, then belt of ogre strength and three Wishes makes for 36, which gives +13), which is at least level 16 to acheive. Anyways, the point is, you need to be fairly high-leveled to consitantly make the DC.

If someone could post/PM me the details on Battle Leap, though, I'd appreciate it.

[dyslexicfaser]

There's really nothing to it, even in the entry in UE. If you drop or jump from a distance of between 5' and 30' above your opponent's head (so, 10' up to hit a medium creature, 15' up to Battle Jump a large), you double your damage. That's a x2 modifier on the end of your Power Attacked, 2H, do-your-best-to-crush-your-DM's-spirit combo.

And you can also choose to trip them as a one-size-larger guy instead, but why would you bother?

EDIT: And yes, as far as WotC boards can tell, a DC40 longjump will activate both Battle Jump and Leap Attack. Only problem being, you need 40' of free space to clear to hit it.

[...Eh?]

Battle Jump is a feat, right? So the wording can mean a lot, especiialy if I were to use it. And 40'? You'd only need 30 for Leap Attack.

Hm, Boots of Springing and Striding, Ring of Jumping, Run, Leap of the Heavens, Athletic, Skill Focus, Tumble synergy, +5 mod, 10 ranks...makes a total of +44, meaning that at level 7, the starting level, I can take on any medium, and in a city, finding a low overhang to jump onto first shouldn't be hard, so large opponents aren't immune, either. I'm starting to like this more and more.

[dyslexicfaser]

No, the 40' foot longjump is to activate both the Battle Jump feat (height is 1/4th of length, so a 40 longjump is 10' high, enough to activate BJ on a medium-sized foe), and Leap Attack.

I guess that would mean that unless you take Leap of the Heavens to be able to do a standing jump, you'd need about 60' movement to get both in the same turn, 20' for the running start and 40' leap.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I have a follow up question for this. If you are limited down to only a standard action, then could you do a spring attack charge?
No. Spring Attack still only works with the Attack action. The Charge action is something completely different.

[...Eh?]

No, the 40' foot longjump is to activate both the Battle Jump feat (height is 1/4th of length, so a 40 longjump is 10' high, enough to activate BJ on a medium-sized foe), and Leap Attack.

I guess that would mean that unless you take Leap of the Heavens to be able to do a standing jump, you'd need about 60' movement to get both in the same turn, 20' for the running start and 40' leap.

Ah, I get it now. So I could make the high jump and move forewards for Battle Leap, or make the long jump and stay low for Leap Attack, but I couldn't do both in the same turn with a movement of under 60'. Or, I could, but I wouldn't finiush the jump that turn, which makes it possible that the enemy is going to just walk away and screw me over. Unless I had the high ground, in which case I wouldn;t need ot jump as far.

[AtomicKitKat]

There's a Flying Kick feat in Complete Warrior. Reprinted from Oriental Adventures. The older one doubled your Unarmed damage(which is similar to the same attack in Heroes Unlimited, btw). The CW version simply adds 1d10 damage. They nerfed the Earth's Embrace feat in the same way too.