PDA

View Full Version : How many times do you roll?



Zerkai
2007-09-14, 09:21 PM
I was curious. *shrug* Somtiems I will spend hours rolling a single character's stat, whether Monster or PC. Although I do it alot for the villain characters too.

Jack Mann
2007-09-14, 09:26 PM
If you're going to roll that much, you might as well just pick a number and use that.

tannish2
2007-09-14, 09:41 PM
If you're going to roll that much, you might as well just pick a number and use that.

ya... its like baulders gate, roll until you get all 18s

illyrus
2007-09-14, 10:15 PM
We use 28 point buy. For villians with class levels or the "elite array" I use 28 point buy for them as well.

In games I'm a PC and we do it with an infinite amount of rerolls instead of point buy I limit myself to 3 sets of rolls. I don't mix and match, I roll 3 whole sets and chose the one I want.

Quietus
2007-09-14, 10:29 PM
This is the reason many DMs refuse to accept rolls that aren't overseen by them, themselves. Because some people WILL roll for hours left unchecked. At least it gets tedious for them if they have to keep killing off the characters that they "didn't roll well enough for".

We have a method among my group that involves three sets of rolls, with lowering amounts of customizability. But when you roll each new set, you're giving up your last one, and when you hit that third, you're stuck with it, period. And even that is pretty bloody lenient.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-14, 11:18 PM
I never roll. I use 32 point-buy. In fact, my group always assumes 32 point-buy unless otherwise stated. Though I have run a 28 and 40 point-buy. As for monsters and NPCs, I use the same point-buy as the players. The players are all optimizers so, they are more heroic in that manner, though their stats might be closer to the enemies they fight.

Tallis
2007-09-15, 12:04 AM
I usually roll once. When I DM I set a minimum net bonus from the scores. The player can roll until they get that minimum, but once they do they have to keep what they roll. For NPCs I usually assign ability scores, no rolling involved.

Dausuul
2007-09-15, 12:21 AM
Zero. My group uses point buy. 32 is our usual standard.

crimson77
2007-09-15, 12:45 AM
As a DM I have given up on stat rolling for players. I prefer to have my players use 25 point stat buy, or more recently using the elite array of stats arranged to taste (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8).

I know a 2nd edition DM that allows his players to roll (3d6 straight down, not arrange to taste) as many times as they want but they have to write down each roll and they cannot take any previous rolls.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-15, 04:25 AM
None. I used a point buy system even back in 2E. My first experience as a player was one guy who rolled 16+ six times in a row, and another who rolled nothing above a 12, so my first decision as a DM was not to do it that way.

bosssmiley
2007-09-15, 04:35 AM
In chargen? Never - I'm a point buy player.
In game? As often as the GM will let me. Rolling dice is one of the sacraments of the gamer faith after all. :smallwink:

Winterwind
2007-09-15, 04:40 AM
In chargen? Never - I'm a point buy player.
In game? As often as the GM will let me. Rolling dice is one of the sacraments of the gamer faith after all. :smallwink:Objection! :smalltongue:
In one of the groups I play in, we never roll any dice - neither for character creation, nor during gameplay. It has its share of both dis- and advantages.

Kiero
2007-09-15, 05:15 AM
I don't do randomness in chargen, so obviously I don't roll at all.

Swooper
2007-09-15, 05:31 AM
Untill I'm happy with the rolls, meaning it depends on the character in question. My group's regular DM is usually very stingy with treasure, so we players compensate by rolling untill we have stats we like (using 4d6, reroll ones, keep three dice).

Edit: Forgot to mention: starting a new set forfeits the last one.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2007-09-15, 05:56 AM
Once the rolls stop being terrible.

I have the strangest luck, I usually roll using an online dice roller and end up with set after set of the worst rolls ever. Until the luck decides to shift and I get something around... 18, 15, 16, 14, 12, 10. It's insane, I think I'm a weird combo of lucky and cursed.... luckursedy... yeah.

AKA_Bait
2007-09-15, 05:59 AM
If I'm making a PC I roll once, or use whatever point buy we are doing. If I'm DMing, I just make the stats up to suit whatever purpose the NPC I care enough about to actually stat out is around for.

Totally Guy
2007-09-15, 06:34 AM
Just once. Same for hit dice.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-15, 07:02 AM
I roll as much as possible, due to the fact that I usually end up with rolls like (from my last character):

17, 17, 16, 14, 12, 7

I managed to get my DM to reroll the 7, and got another high teen!:smallbiggrin:

Threeshades
2007-09-15, 07:03 AM
If we werent using buy system i wouldnt let my player roll for more than 3 times. maybe if all their rolls are terrible they can have some more. Because an infinite number of rerolls is just like Jack Mann said. Why not pick a number immediately instead of waiting until you got the 18/18/18/18/18/18 rolled?

UserClone
2007-09-15, 07:32 AM
I like to let players choose between taking the set of stats they rolled with 4d6b3x6, or the "Elite Array" of 15,14,13,12,10,8.
As a player, I like to go with whatever method the DM decides and trust that they know what they're doing...until they give me reason to think otherwise.
In a realted-ish story, in one game, I played a Dvati Monk with like 2 10's, 2 11's, and a 12 and 13. It was pretty much the minimum scores you can't toss, per the PHB, so maturally I was bummed. Later on I and myself was/were meditating (anybody who knows what a Dvati is/are knows what I'm talking about), when the GM says "You gain some insight" (or some such nonsense and hands me a slip of paper with a not that says, "You immediately gain 6 points to add to your ability scores, any way you see fit."
"Fair?" asks the DM. "No. Of course it's not fair. Nobody else got this. But I'll take it." I couldn't help it...I was a monk.

martyboy74
2007-09-15, 07:47 AM
We usually only roll once (the obvious exceptiong being godawful scores; no one in our group enjoys playing the guy with straight 13s), but in a very weird way. We roll 24d6, drop the lowest, and there're you're points to divvy out as you please. Purportedly, this is to save time, but I'm pretty sure that everyone realizes that it raises the average score.

Dubie
2007-09-15, 08:22 AM
One time (unless thier scores are terible. Then I give them a pitty roll). Also, for hit points on level, I give them the option to either keep thier roll, or I roll thier hit dice and they take my number even if its lower.

ranger89
2007-09-15, 08:46 AM
For PC's and NPC's, I follow my group's standard house rule: Roll 2 sets of ability scores (4d6, drop lowest). If one of both of the sets are RAW "too low" (must total modifier >=0 and 13 cannot be your highest score), it can be rerolled. If you're just not happy with either set, you can roll a do-or-die third set that you have to use no matter how crappy it is. The only time I fudge this rule a little bit is if I'm creating a key NPC.

As much as I prefer to roll every aspect of the game (I rarely even "take 10"), I agree that if you're rolling endlessly to get the scores you want that you should just do a point-buy.

Pegasos989
2007-09-15, 08:57 AM
Untill the following criteria are met:
-Stats are playable
-They aren't boring.


An array of 17, 16 ,10, 7, 8, 7 would be fine with me. An array of 16, 14, 15, 13, 14, 10 wouldn't. While the latter array is more powerful, it is very boring. However, the first one is interesting.

I never want to see if stats are good or bad. When I roll, it is because I want interesting and varying stats that are something completely diffrent than I would choose myself. This is normally 3-7 sets before I find one that I like.

However, most of the time I would rather take pointbuy.

Firefingers
2007-09-15, 09:04 AM
once I normally average at least 1 18 if not 2 with 4d6 drop lowest

last 2 chars rolled

18,15,14,14,10,17 (in that order for ST to CHA played as a battle sorc)

18,15,18,13,11,12

(in that order played as a half-celestial stone giant one word for this insane used a ring of enlarging to make him huge with a +14 ST mod and 6 AOO with a greatsword sized for a huge creature fortunately it was a ECL 20+ game so not an issue but still quite scary)

Talya
2007-09-15, 09:08 AM
40 point buy, generally. Rare heroic villains will also get 40 point buy.

In a SW Saga Edition game I'm a player in, the DM did 5d6, drop the two lowest--but in order, you didn't pick and choose which abilities got which rolls. After rolling (once), you could either swap two scores of your choice, or reroll one. It worked alright.

Funkyodor
2007-09-15, 09:13 AM
First of all, to explain the system that worked best for us, we added a stat. Comliness represents the characters physical appearance, and Charisma changed to the characters force of personality and inner drive. We start with 9D6 pick the highest and subtract a dice till you are rolling 3D6 for your seventh stat. Assign where you like. You get 3 sets, but you can't go backwards. If you don't like the rolls then you scrap them to get another chance. DM didn't have a problem with powerful characters, because the PC's are suposed to be heroic (and his campaign was rather deadly).

Fax Celestis
2007-09-15, 09:52 AM
My players usually roll 4d6, best three, eight times, keeping the best six, though recently I've been pondering a 2d8+1d4 system.

The difference there (with 2d8+1d4) would be that the range of a character's stats would be 3-20, averaging 11.5 instead of 10.5.

Similarly, another I've pondered is 1d12+1d8, which'd have a range of 2-20, and average 11, instead of 3d6's 10.5.

Obviously, each of these has a different feel in mind.

Curmudgeon
2007-09-15, 11:37 AM
I don't roll. Rolling repeatedly is a way to eventually get a character with numbers signficantly above the average.

32 point buy, if spent most efficiently (no stat above 14) yields a character with statistics averaging 13.333. 4d6 drop lowest averages 12.245, but will have some stats above 14. Since 32 point buy averages significantly better than rolling, I don't feel that I'm penalizing my players by insisting on point buy -- and I am ensuring fairness.

crimson77
2007-09-15, 11:57 AM
Untill the following criteria are met:
-Stats are playable
-They aren't boring.


An array of 17, 16 ,10, 7, 8, 7 would be fine with me. An array of 16, 14, 15, 13, 14, 10 wouldn't. While the latter array is more powerful, it is very boring. However, the first one is interesting.

I never want to see if stats are good or bad. When I roll, it is because I want interesting and varying stats that are something completely diffrent than I would choose myself. This is normally 3-7 sets before I find one that I like.

However, most of the time I would rather take pointbuy.

I agree with Pegasos, I think that it is important for players and characters to have a stat (or two) that is negative. It adds a area of humility to the character. A character with a week area needs other characters to balance out the party.

Arbitrarity
2007-09-15, 12:01 PM
Humility? Not if the low stat is wisdom!

*wheee!*

BizzaroStormy
2007-09-15, 12:06 PM
I never roll. I use 32 point-buy. In fact, my group always assumes 32 point-buy unless otherwise stated. Though I have run a 28 and 40 point-buy. As for monsters and NPCs, I use the same point-buy as the players. The players are all optimizers so, they are more heroic in that manner, though their stats might be closer to the enemies they fight.

With good reason, It seemd like whenever we rolled, e got either really awesome stats or really crappy stats, I remember tommy's 4,4,14,11,5,8 that was hilarious.

RTGoodman
2007-09-15, 12:09 PM
When I DM, I usually tell every player to roll one set of stats (4d6 drop lowest, sometimes re-roll one 1 per roll), and then the players all pick one set of ability scores that they all get (that I also give to all the heroic villains). That keeps the randomness of dice-rolling (which I like), and prevents characters with straight 18s in a party with a character with straight 10s.

In fact, I just did it last night. My player's are gonna hate "Red Hand of Doom" when they find that all the Wyrmlords have the same stats as them: 17-16-16-14-13-10. :smalltongue:

ocato
2007-09-15, 12:14 PM
I kinda like the 18, 16, 14, 12, 12, 10 array, which my DM has used once or twice. This was after our 4d6 drop lowest, reroll 1s and 2s and doubles if you want phase, which was pretty much a "two 18s and nothing under 12", which we grew out of. As I've said in other posts, my old group liked to be strong and fight strong things. 90% of our enemies were uber-optimized PC ideas the DM had and homebrewed enemies who were typically very powerful. When rolling characters nowadays, I usually only reroll if it is below the DM's crapstandard.

martyboy74
2007-09-15, 12:15 PM
I don't roll. Rolling repeatedly is a way to eventually get a character with numbers signficantly above the average.

32 point buy, if spent most efficiently (no stat above 14) yields a character with statistics averaging 13.333. 4d6 drop lowest averages 12.245, but will have some stats above 14. Since 32 point buy averages significantly better than rolling, I don't feel that I'm penalizing my players by insisting on point buy -- and I am ensuring fairness.

However, spending your scores most efficiently nets you 13/13/13/13/14/14. Not exactly an interesting build, either for roleplaying or optimization.

Zerkai
2007-09-15, 12:16 PM
Wow... i'm suprised and dissapointedd in most of you. Some of you never even roll dice? This is DnD man, live the dream. d20 for life!

And maybe I exxagerated a bit, except for the parts about rollign that long for my villains :smallcool:. They gotta be uber. And I'm not talking about all 18s. I'm fine with one 18 in my array, and one 16-17 is good, don't care aboutt he other numbers, unless their all under 9. I'd take one 16-17 though, if I had two 15s. You just need one or two Power statss. When I have a PC, they at least have one 18. To either boost a stat even higher (Like giving an 18 in an Half-orcs STR stat, or a Dwarf's Constitution stat.) Or to make up for a race penalty to a certain stat.

But, even without rerolls I am fairly lucky, sometimes I could get great rolls. One tie I rolled a pair of stats with all of them being over 14 (Except for one... it was a 9)

Fax Celestis
2007-09-15, 12:16 PM
One of these days I'm going to try 6d4 (drop lowest two) or 6d3 (drop lowest).

ocato
2007-09-15, 12:27 PM
I had a friend tell me he played in a game where stats were rolled with d20s and locked sequentially. You roll 6d20s and then you pick your class/race. Because if your 2nd roll was 4, your DEX was 4. No questions, no complaining.

He played a half-orc Barbarian at L1 with 22 STR and less than 8 in all his other stats (Except a 16 in Charisma). His death was supposedly spectacular.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-15, 12:28 PM
I had a friend tell me he played in a game where stats were rolled with d20s and locked sequentially. You roll 6d20s and then you pick your class/race. Because if your 2nd roll was 4, your DEX was 4. No questions, no complaining.

He played a half-orc Barbarian at L1 with 22 STR and less than 8 in all his other stats (Except a 16 in Charisma). His death was supposedly spectacular.

That's vicious.

ocato
2007-09-15, 12:29 PM
This was the DM's second campaign. In his first campaign, he made all the characters and passed them out at the first session. So my friend showed up and was given a half elf bard who had been completely made and had to have his backstory memorized and be able to RP him properly for the next week's session. We called that guy the OCDM

kamoo
2007-09-15, 12:30 PM
I like point buy, but the problem is the 32pts. every wizard starts with Int 18, every bard with Car 18 and so on...

Curmudgeon
2007-09-15, 01:14 PM
However, spending your scores most efficiently nets you 13/13/13/13/14/14. Not exactly an interesting build, either for roleplaying or optimization. Uh, that's spending your points most evenly, not efficiently. Odd numbers are poor choices in D&D. 14/14/14/14/14/10 and 14/14/14/14/12/12 are much more efficient than your choice. These arrays work particularly well for Monks and Rogues, who are dependent on several attributes. With common race choices (like Elf for a Rogue) the character starts with 16 in their most vital stat, has at least +2 to all saves, and no real weaknesses.

The efficient approach doesn't lead to a powerhouse at 1st level, but it's much more likely to survive past that level than tweaked-out characters.

ranger89
2007-09-15, 02:35 PM
I had a friend tell me he played in a game where stats were rolled with d20s and locked sequentially. You roll 6d20s and then you pick your class/race. Because if your 2nd roll was 4, your DEX was 4. No questions, no complaining.


That's vicious.

So vicious and yet so damn appealing! I'm going to present this idea to my group the next time we have a one-and-done type session.

jjpickar
2007-09-15, 03:58 PM
Has anyone ever required their players to just roll a d20 and reroll 3 0r lower?

Fax Celestis
2007-09-15, 04:01 PM
Has anyone ever required their players to just roll a d20 and reroll 3 0r lower?

The reason for the 3d6 rule is to get an average. 1d20 has a 5% chance of landing any given side up. 3d6 ends up making a decent bell curve, which is part of the reason certain people prefer the Bell Curve Rolls variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm).

EDIT: however, one can mess with the curve by using different dice. 1d10+1d8 ends up with nearly the same range, but the curve is weighted towards the lower end. 6d3 ends up with a much higher range (6-18), and leaves the average (15) much higher than 3d6 (10.5).

skywalker
2007-09-15, 04:21 PM
Has anyone ever required their players to just roll a d20 and reroll 3 0r lower?

The first time I played an RPG, it was done this way. The keeper(CofC) gave us certain modifiers we could add to lower numbers(IE, don't add to a 16, but you can add to a 10 or lower).

John Campbell
2007-09-15, 08:26 PM
The DMs I play under these days typically do sum-to-80 or sum-to-85, which (especially the latter) typically leads to two or three 18s in primary stats and suck in the dump stats. My last two characters have had two 18s before racial mods (Int and Con for the dwarven fighter/wizard, Str and Dex for the half-orc ranger, so there's 20s after mods), middling to good in most of their other stats, and -2 Cha penalties.

When I'm DMing, I stick with good ol' 4d6 keep 3, arrange to taste. Once only. If a character couldn't qualify for any class by AD&D rules (that is, all rolls below 9), I'd allow a reroll, but in 25 years of D&Ding, I've never actually seen that happen.

Allowing unlimited rerolls just makes a mockery of the whole process. Given an infinite number of monkeys rolling dice, you'll eventually be able to assign Shakespeare straight 18s in all his stats. Might as well skip all the tossing around bits of plastic and just write down whatever numbers you feel like.

I did play in a game once where the standard character generation was 6d20, re-roll anything below 10, arrange to taste, and, oh, you can take any non-magical equipment you want. That was also the game where my 19-Str (and that's a Second Edition 19) paladin (only time I've ever played a paladin) slaughtered the entire rest of the party and rode away with his paladinhood intact. I, uh, didn't play with those guys again...

RTGoodman
2007-09-15, 08:37 PM
The reason for the 3d6 rule is to get an average. 1d20 has a 5% chance of landing any given side up. 3d6 ends up making a decent bell curve, which is part of the reason certain people prefer the Bell Curve Rolls variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm).

I really need to either start reading through the Unearthed Arcana part of the SRD or just break down and buy the dang book. Apparently there are a ton of awesome variants in it.

And now, of course, I'm very tempted to use this Bell Curve 3d6 rule for the campaign I'm about to start.

Jarlax
2007-09-15, 09:17 PM
last campaign i placed my PCs on Point buy, it made things much smoother as my players have a nasty habit of rolling nothing less than a 12.

it made things a lot better, the wizards had poor Con and Str, the fighter had no Wisdom and a dump stat was serious business. super multiclassing was down because it was difficult to have the stats needed to take two entirely different classes and also Races became a much more important matter.

because of there insane stats my players have a habit of taking human with two flaws every time, because the racial adjustments on stats are not as valuable as a 3 free feats and skill points for someone who already has 17's or 18's in their good stats. once points buy was in suddenly i got a lot more varied races, at least one per class type. and almost noone went human.

Mojo_Rat
2007-09-15, 09:29 PM
We use 4d6 keep the best 3 place them where you wish and use the RAW bit if you happen to roll pretty poor stats. We have used the 4d6 system now for about 18 years (although the getting to replace truely abysma stats is new)

Only ever used point buy once none of the DM's In our group seem to like it.

Tower
2007-09-16, 02:16 AM
I don't get the chance to play much but one game I played was
6 lots of 4d6 and drop lowest, but you could them add them together for a buy system.

So if you got a 17, 10, 12, 15, 8, 11 = 73 points for stats
While that's a reasonable roll in itself, this was good since it added more flexibility, but still had some dice randomness, so you could give yourself
18,18,13,12,6,6 or 15,15,15,15,6,7 or 13,12,12,12,12,12 etc.

nagora
2007-09-16, 07:03 AM
once I normally average at least 1 18 if not 2 with 4d6 drop lowest


You need new dice if that's true.

kamoo
2007-09-16, 10:19 AM
dont you dare to play GURPS with those dices...

goat
2007-09-16, 01:34 PM
EDIT: however, one can mess with the curve by using different dice. 1d10+1d8 ends up with nearly the same range, but the curve is weighted towards the lower end. 6d3 ends up with a much higher range (6-18), and leaves the average (15) much higher than 3d6 (10.5).

You'll get an average of 12, surely. Not quite as great an improvement, but significant.

However your odds of getting 6 3s is 1 in 729, compared to your odds of getting 3 6's, which is 1 in 216. You'll improve your average score, but end up with a much more tightly grouped range.

skywalker
2007-09-16, 01:36 PM
One of these days I'm going to try 6d4 (drop lowest two) or 6d3 (drop lowest).

Fax, I've noticed the obviously attractive factor that there are no possible 18s in this system(but also less chance for low, low numbers). Those are pretty intriguing ideas.

I also like the other options you mentioned. Are those all from UA?

ocato
2007-09-16, 01:38 PM
last campaign i placed my PCs on Point buy, it made things much smoother as my players have a nasty habit of rolling nothing less than a 12.

it made things a lot better, the wizards had poor Con and Str, the fighter had no Wisdom and a dump stat was serious business. super multiclassing was down because it was difficult to have the stats needed to take two entirely different classes and also Races became a much more important matter.

because of there insane stats my players have a habit of taking human with two flaws every time, because the racial adjustments on stats are not as valuable as a 3 free feats and skill points for someone who already has 17's or 18's in their good stats. once points buy was in suddenly i got a lot more varied races, at least one per class type. and almost noone went human.

Personally, I'd solve this by denying them flaws, and adjusting campaigns to involve people who were xenophobic or only liked certain types of people. Like the wizard's enclave that only liked Arcane casters (real ones, bards didn't count :smallfrown: ), elves, and gnomes.

Mojo_Rat
2007-09-16, 01:39 PM
Over the years I have noticed some players seems to have really good luck with their Dice rolls for stats. One player of ours Has had several characters with multiple 18's ive seen it a few times rolled with different dice while being wathed.

And then for some reason once the game starts most of his d20 rolls are single digit as if some sort of universal Karma is going the other way.

Generaly speaking I like the die rolls because its traditional, Even if ive gotten used to no longer rolling for first level hps etc. I feell the point Buy feels too video gamey or reduces the game more mathematically than i want it to be.

Guy_Whozevl
2007-09-16, 02:52 PM
In one campaign (starting at 7th level), I had rolled a 18, 18, 17, 16, 16, 15 for my stats. Basically, I ended up as pure ownage while everyone else effectively sucked. So from then on, we use 18, 18, 16, 16, 14, 14 for our stats, which is usually fine when I DM. It just means I can throw harder stuff at the party.

Curmudgeon
2007-09-17, 03:57 AM
So from then on, we use 18, 18, 16, 16, 14, 14 for our stats, which is usually fine when I DM. It just means I can throw harder stuff at the party. I really don't understand this. You're effectively using 64 point buy here, which is twice the "high-powered campaign" point allotment. This means you've got to skew the CRs way harder to have enemies challenge these characters. Why not go with 14/14/12/12/10/10 instead (24 point buy) and just use standard CRs? It would be a lot simpler.

If you become accustomed to using these überstats, you'll fail badly if you have to play in a Con game with standard strength characters. What you're doing may be fun, but it isn't actually D&D as most of us know it.

Telonius
2007-09-17, 09:53 AM
My group generally considers rolling more than once "cheating," unless the roll results in some truly horrific stats. The definition of "horrific" is determined by the DM. Otherwise, 4d6 drop lowest (with a one-die mulligan for the whole process), or point buy.

Serpentine
2007-09-17, 10:13 AM
Our group starts with one 18 and one 8 (though sometimes it's more that if you don't get that when you roll, you have to keep rolling one or two 'til you get under 10), so everyone has at least one strength and one weakness. The other four are rolled 5d6 drop the two lowest. I think we do tend to allow multiple rolls, now I think of it, but a lot of the time we have at least one, possibly more, stat that we want quite low just to fit our character concept, so it's not usually too bad.