The Witcher is literally a Superman

[oudeis]

Henry Cavill will play Geralt (https://io9.gizmodo.com/henry-cavill-will-lead-netflixs-witcher-series-as-geral-1828798390) in the upcoming Netflix series. I haven't devoted a lot of thought to who I would want to play the role, but I don't think he would have made any list I would have come up with. I haven't seen enough of his work to comment on his acting, but is he a good choice for the character?

[Keltest]

My only criteria will be if he can do a scary and offensive smile. Geralt was called out on his intimidating smirk many times. If he can do that, everything else will fall into place.

[Olinser]

Henry Cavill will play Geralt (https://io9.gizmodo.com/henry-cavill-will-lead-netflixs-witcher-series-as-geral-1828798390) in the upcoming Netflix series. I haven't devoted a lot of thought to who I would want to play the role, but I don't think he would have made any list I would have come up with. I haven't seen enough of his work to comment on his acting, but is he a good choice for the character?

He's not a BAD actor, but nothing I've ever seen him in really made me think he had that much depth as an actor.

He'll probably do an acceptable, but not fantastic job. And honestly with live action video game adaptations that's enough to put it in the top 10% already.

[Mechalich]

Cavill's apparently tried to do, as much as possible, his own stunts in Mission Impossible: Fallout. He's had training as an action star and is willing to put in the time and effort necessary to function as one. In an action heavy TV series that's important. The more the lead actors themselves can do, the better the fight scenes will look. Also, less time and takes are spent chopping them together that way, which saves money, meaning that portion of the budget can go to something else, which always helps. The fact that Cavill also apparently likes the Witcher series suggests he'll commit fully, including to the rather extensive makeup regime likely to be involved in this role.

So those are positives.

[Excession]

Cavill's apparently tried to do, as much as possible, his own stunts in Mission Impossible: Fallout. He's had training as an action star and is willing to put in the time and effort necessary to function as one. In an action heavy TV series that's important. The more the lead actors themselves can do, the better the fight scenes will look. Also, less time and takes are spent chopping them together that way, which saves money, meaning that portion of the budget can go to something else, which always helps. The fact that Cavill also apparently likes the Witcher series suggests he'll commit fully, including to the rather extensive makeup regime likely to be involved in this role.

So those are positives.

Geralt wouldn't be Geralt without the epic beard, and Cavill has also proved willing and able to grow one for other roles. I wonder if they'll have his beard grow longer over the season. :smallbiggrin:

[Olinser]

Geralt wouldn't be Geralt without the epic beard, and Cavill has also proved willing and able to grow one for other roles. I wonder if they'll have his beard grow longer over the season. :smallbiggrin:

I'd argue the chest hair is more important than the beard, and I don't think Cavill can pull that off :smallamused:

[Eldan]

Maybe that's just the games talking, but shouldn't Geralt look at least a bit old and grizzled? I can't say I really know what Caville looks like with a beard, but my imagine of him is much too young and smooth.

[Cen]

He'll probably do an acceptable, but not fantastic job. And honestly with live action video game adaptations that's enough to put it in the top 10% already.

THAT"S NOT A VIDEO GAME ADAPTATION!!

sorry for caps, but people thinking that Withcer is mainly a video game annoys me as hell. It's an epic book series, go read it and stop this blasphemy.

[GloatingSwine]

Maybe that's just the games talking, but shouldn't Geralt look at least a bit old and grizzled? I can't say I really know what Caville looks like with a beard, but my imagine of him is much too young and smooth.

It's quite hard to determine how old magic or mutated people are in The Witcher.

I mean you would't think Yennefer is 95 to look at her....

Geralt has white hair, but that's a mutation not because of age. (even though Witchers live a long time, Vesemir is several hundred years old)

Cavill will probably be pretty good, though they need to make him look even more like a hobo than he did in Man of Steel (Geralt in the books basically is a hobo, he's barely ever got any money because the sort of people who have monster problems and need a witcher can rarely pay much and mostly travels out in the sticks because that's where the work is. At least the work that doesn't end up happening in sewers, which is why he avoids cities.)

[Yora]

I've never seen him in anything but someone said he was good in Man from Uncle and when I looked it up on youtube I can kind of see why someone would think it's a good casting choice.

However, we agreed that the real performance that could make or break the show would actually be Dandelion. He's Geralt's main sidekick early on and walks an extremely narrow edge between funny and silly. Making him too cartoony could easily wreck the whole tone. Though I think that's also just as much up to the writers as to the actor.

[Keltest]

It's quite hard to determine how old magic or mutated people are in The Witcher.

I mean you would't think Yennefer is 95 to look at her....

Geralt has white hair, but that's a mutation not because of age. (even though Witchers live a long time, Vesemir is several hundred years old)

Cavill will probably be pretty good, though they need to make him look even more like a hobo than he did in Man of Steel (Geralt in the books basically is a hobo, he's barely ever got any money because the sort of people who have monster problems and need a witcher can rarely pay much and mostly travels out in the sticks because that's where the work is. At least the work that doesn't end up happening in sewers, which is why he avoids cities.)

I believe geralt is something in the neighborhood of 100 years old, but I cant remember where that was said, specifically.

[Morty]

Vesemir says so in the third game. But the timeline of the books is vague at best, so that may or may not be true. And some years pass between the last book and the first game anyway.

[thorgrim29]

I am.... cautiously optimistic let's say. I don't think I've ever seen a full movie he was in but he seems like a good actor and a big enough name to generate buzz. And now there's another dumb casting thing around Ciri... And I'm not sure I can adequately express how much this subject recurring every few months bores me at this point.

[Rynjin]

The casting around Ciri has unfortunate implications. If Ciri is black, that logically follows that her dad is black, which implies black people are a dominant/prominent enough race in Nilfgaard for the emperor to rise to power.

This has issues when the largely milk-white populace start calling the hated empire "The Black Ones" with all the disgust they can muster.

If they go with a Hispanic actress instead, its not as big of a deal (Nilfgaard always seemed like a weird amalgam France/Spain anyway to me).

[Ramza00]

I'd argue the chest hair is more important than the beard, and I don't think Cavill can pull that off :smallamused:

Wonderful troll, you caused me to be emotionally rilled up for a few seconds :smallwink:

[JadedDM]

Cavill is supposedly a huge fan of the books and games, and he's really excited about the project. So if nothing else, he's passionate about the role and that will probably help a great deal, as opposed to someone who's just looking for a paycheck or to increase his portfolio.

[Jayngfet]

Geralt is about 80 in the first book, which is when Ciri's parents meet and she is conceived. The later books happen much farther along hence why Ciri is a character instead of a baby or toddler. The games happen even farther along hence why Ciri is an adult and Geralt is on a first name basis with a bunch of other old people. Half of them were teenagers when first introduced and Geralt was already old then and complaining that he was no longer in his prime.

I'm also against Ciri having a different race. I can kinda get being creative with a series that's had many movies or shows like Spider-Man but The Witcher has only had one series like 20 years ago done with no budget that was only available in eastern Europe outside of one DVD nobody actually got. I believe that by default an adaptation should be as accurate as possible within constraints.

[Cikomyr]

The Witcher is also effectively a Ubermentch; a man who defines his own morality and refuses to let society's failings compromise him.

Little wonder that the company who made the Witcher are also making another Ubermentch-friendly setting in Cyberpunk 2077

[Giggling Ghast]

Ubermensch, not mentch.

[Cikomyr]

Ubermensch, not mentch.

Thats what I said, Ubhermensch

[Corvus]

I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why they would go against the established canon so thoroughly when they had already stated that they wouldn't do anything like that and they had to know just what the response would be.

It isn't as if Ciri is some minor character - she is one of the most important characters in the setting and changing her has major repercussions to the setting given who she is related to (and not just her father either.)

[Jayngfet]

I'm at a bit of a loss to understand why they would go against the established canon so thoroughly when they had already stated that they wouldn't do anything like that and they had to know just what the response would be.

It isn't as if Ciri is some minor character - she is one of the most important characters in the setting and changing her has major repercussions to the setting given who she is related to (and not just her father either.)

Yeah. Ciri is related to monarchy on both sides of her family tree. She has a blood relation to several other established characters. If you wanted to extend it even further you could say you'd need to cast a large number of people around Ciri for making a change like this, and you can't just say "eh, anything except white". You need a solid plan unless you're going to spend months holding off on casting other important characters.

This isn't Wheel of Time where cultures are mishmashed together and anything goes.

[Keltest]

Yeah. Ciri is related to monarchy on both sides of her family tree. She has a blood relation to several other established characters. If you wanted to extend it even further you could say you'd need to cast a large number of people around Ciri for making a change like this, and you can't just say "eh, anything except white". You need a solid plan unless you're going to spend months holding off on casting other important characters.

This isn't Wheel of Time where cultures are mishmashed together and anything goes.

Nilfgaard at least is significantly more culturally diverse than the Northern Kingdoms are, since it is made up of many smaller conquered or otherwise assimilated nations. Its not impossible that Ciri and her father are black or Hispanic even if theyre still a minority in Nilfgaard. Asian seems... unlikely to me, since the Witcher series lacks an analogue anywhere near the main region of the books.

I do think its a bit of a pitfall if they were to have the Black Ones led by an evil black person though.

[Eldan]

Cavill is supposedly a huge fan of the books and games, and he's really excited about the project. So if nothing else, he's passionate about the role and that will probably help a great deal, as opposed to someone who's just looking for a paycheck or to increase his portfolio.

Don't they always say that with a project like this, though?

[Clertar]

What's this obsession with the beard? (a) Geralt never had a beard if he could help it. (b) Even in the fanfiction storyline in the videogames he only sports it in III. That's not only way past the end of the books, if we considered the videogames partof the storyline that would be adapted (it's not), it's also three videogames in!

In the Netflix series we'll see the youngest Geralt we've ever seen in fiction (barring Season of Storms), he cannot look like an old and grizzled Geralt yet, that would be if anything at the end when he reunites with Ciri. Here we'll start with his pre-Ciri storyline, which means probably a mix of the good stuff in The Last Wish and The Sword of Destiny. Probably heavily adapted to the retcon that Sapkowsky did in the novel pentalogy.

Personally I want to see the sarcastic, chatty and witty hardboiled witcher from the novels, not the version we got in the videogames (which story-wise comes much later than any of the books, with a lot of tragedy and turmoil on his shoulders---and from a real world perspective has a very muted personality because he's a videogame character that needs to match the different choices that players make).

[Jayngfet]

To reiterate Geralt is already old at that point. Even in the first novel you get conversations about how he can live longer but he's still slowing down. We've very rarely even seen a Geralt in his actual prime.

[Clertar]

Geralt is indeed old by human standards, but that doesn't mean he looks like an old man---his white hair is because of the witcher mutation. Most wizards are older than Geralt anyways. Where do we see that he's "past his prime"? He's a very experienced, peak form witcher who can go toe-to-toe with younger witchers and most monsters he comes across. He's also temperamental and hot-headed, especially in his younger years that we see (Season of Storms, Last Wish, Sword of Truth).

As for the series, if we started with an older actor in the earlier seasons he'd be a true old person later on, which is not a correct depiction.

[Keltest]

Geralt is indeed old by human standards, but that doesn't mean he looks like an old man---his white hair is because of the witcher mutation. Most wizards are older than Geralt anyways. Where do we see that he's "past his prime"? He's a very experienced, peak form witcher who can go toe-to-toe with younger witchers and most monsters he comes across. He's also temperamental and hot-headed, especially in his younger years that we see (Season of Storms, Last Wish, Sword of Truth).

As for the series, if we started with an older actor in the earlier seasons he'd be a true old person later on, which is not a correct depiction.

The very first book (well, series of short stories) The Last Wish has his healer friend comment on how he let his guard down when he fought the striga. Its never really made clear if Geralt is actually slowing down or if a concerned friend is just telling him he should stop throwing himself at monsters.

[Chen]

Nilfgaard at least is significantly more culturally diverse than the Northern Kingdoms are, since it is made up of many smaller conquered or otherwise assimilated nations. Its not impossible that Ciri and her father are black or Hispanic even if theyre still a minority in Nilfgaard. Asian seems... unlikely to me, since the Witcher series lacks an analogue anywhere near the main region of the books.

I do think its a bit of a pitfall if they were to have the Black Ones led by an evil black person though.

Having the Emperor of Nilfgaard be from some assimilated nation seems...unlikely. I think they'd need to change the race of all Nilfgaardians for this to work. Which can be doable, aside, as you mention, the whole "Black Ones" thing. Which really is only an issue if Ciri ends up being black and not some other minority race. Nilfgaard COULD be all asians and it wouldn't really have any relevant impact on the story as long as it was just asian actors and there was no asian culture involved, since Nilfgaardian culture is well enough defined. What exactly they look like isn't terribly relevant.

[thorgrim29]

Why would they be from the assimilated nation? The royal family and a big chunk of the nobility could be of whatever racial background because that's what the original Nilfgaardians were before they started the empire business. There's ample precedent for that in our history. Hell, the ''emperor with ties to a conquered nation'' thing also has precedent, at least 1 roman emperor was at least half north african, and Alexander the Great married 3 women from the middle-east and central asia, so if any of his sons had succeeded him they would also have been darker than macedonians.

Anyway, the best argument I've seen is that Witcher is based on slavic history and myths and therefore it's disrespectful to that culture to cast black people, but I find that argument disingenuous because the same people aren't protesting an extremely british man playing Geralt and race and culture aren't the same thing, something slavic people usually tend to bring up in that kind of discussion. Therefore the controversy continues to bore me.

[Keltest]

Why would they be from the assimilated nation? The royal family and a big chunk of the nobility could be of whatever racial background because that's what the original Nilfgaardians were before they started the empire business. There's ample precedent for that in our history. Hell, the ''emperor with ties to a conquered nation'' thing also has precedent, at least 1 roman emperor was at least half north african, and Alexander the Great married 3 women from the middle-east and central asia, so if any of his sons had succeeded him they would also have been darker than macedonians.

Anyway, the best argument I've seen is that Witcher is based on slavic history and myths and therefore it's disrespectful to that culture to cast black people, but I find that argument disingenuous because the same people aren't protesting an extremely british man playing Geralt and race and culture aren't the same thing, something slavic people usually tend to bring up in that kind of discussion. Therefore the controversy continues to bore me.

I could almost buy into that argument if there was a Slavic actress who was being passed over for the role, but im not especially impressed by it otherwise.

[Morty]

People reeeaaally overstate how "Slavic" the world of the Witcher is.

[Clertar]

People reeeaaally overstate how "Slavic" the world of the Witcher is.

And if anything what I always pictured to be "Slavic" are the small northern kingdoms where Geralt runs around. Nilfgaard is a fantasy Ottoman empire that conquered "Europe" and is closing in on these kingdoms, neither in the books' lore nor in the real world analogies are NIlfgaardian supposed to be "Slavic".

[Fyraltari]

Having the Emperor of Nilfgaard be from some assimilated nation seems...unlikely.
The Roman Empire has at time been led by spaniards, bulgarians and one time by a syrian man. I don't see that as particularly unlikely.


Why would they be from the assimilated nation? The royal family and a big chunk of the nobility could be of whatever racial background because that's what the original Nilfgaardians were before they started the empire business. There's ample precedent for that in our history. Hell, the ''emperor with ties to a conquered nation'' thing also has precedent, at least 1 roman emperor was at least half north african, and Alexander the Great married 3 women from the middle-east and central asia, so if any of his sons had succeeded him they would also have been darker than macedonians.

Anyway, the best argument I've seen is that Witcher is based on slavic history and myths and therefore it's disrespectful to that culture to cast black people, but I find that argument disingenuous because the same people aren't protesting an extremely british man playing Geralt and race and culture aren't the same thing, something slavic people usually tend to bring up in that kind of discussion. Therefore the controversy continues to bore me.
Basically this.

[Jayngfet]

Anyway, the best argument I've seen is that Witcher is based on slavic history and myths and therefore it's disrespectful to that culture to cast black people, but I find that argument disingenuous because the same people aren't protesting an extremely british man playing Geralt and race and culture aren't the same thing, something slavic people usually tend to bring up in that kind of discussion. Therefore the controversy continues to bore me.

The Witcher has always had it's roots in more of a pan-european mythology type of deal rather than slavic history specifically. As much as people like to call it a serious story for serious people and as much as it tries to take itself seriously it's not even rooted in mythology so much as Grimm's fairy tales made kind of edgy. Curses and magic in this series were very much rooted in things like true loves kisses and enchanted castles and towers that do cool stuff on their own, at least initially. Actual named spellcasters who do their own thing don't even show up until towards the tail end of the first book and that's still just an evil wizard chasing after some bint with seven dwarves and Yennifer showing up to harass a genie over three wishes. It's not a hardcore mythological series by any means and I highly doubt anyone claiming it has has ever read the books, or even paid attention to the games.

At the end of the day my concern isn't even that Ciri is black. It's that Ciri isn't black. The casting call doesn't specify any race except for essentially anyone who isn't white. If they wanted a black Ciri that'd be another matter entirely to me. As an independent filmmaker and as an artist I'm generally very anal rentive about designs and casting. To me a characters race isn't something you just throw around however you feel like because it makes an actual difference when you're actually getting the production made. Different skin tones and hair textures mean someone will look good in very different colors and styles. You have to light that person differently, sometimes with a whole separate setup, or it won't look as good.

On top of that look at the points other posters are making. This is a fantasy series. Is this a kingdom where everyone else is also that race? Does this change the art direction of that location in any real way? How about neighboring kingdoms? Is everything up in the air?

I'm mostly overthinking this, obviously, but these are very real problems that must be resolved and I'm getting the impression that if they're coming to light now as they're this close to production there may be other issues.

[thorgrim29]

Yeah fair enough... I'll agree that the whole ''any minority'' thing is creepy in general, and in particular if the leaked casting call is true and they didn't cast Ciri first before figuring the whole thing out it doesn't bode well for the show's internal consistency. IMO the fact that the showrunner was also the showrunner for Defenders is a bigger cause for concern though, Defenders wasn't great.

[Jayngfet]

I didn't know about the Showrunner. That's... not good news.

In a sense "throw it in there and figure it out later" is standard for television. A lot of serial writers have no idea what they're doing with a plot element when first introduced. You generally only get like four episodes worth of story done before production starts catching up to you and that can be a recipie for disaster if you have 20+ to write. Hence why the CW hero shows have so much forced drama and secrets even the characters speaking clearly don't know except to imply they have a secret, because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead.

That's why Netflix shows are expected to be better. It's one lump release and production and you're expected to have it figured out ahead of time. But if this isnt the case then there's no real point.

[Anteros]

He's not a BAD actor, but nothing I've ever seen him in really made me think he had that much depth as an actor.

He'll probably do an acceptable, but not fantastic job. And honestly with live action video game adaptations that's enough to put it in the top 10% already.

I don't think it really takes a lot of acting talent to pull off Geralt. He doesn't really show a huge range of emotion normally. He's basically a generic stoic warrior guy, and Cavill has already shown he can pull that off with the DCU Superman (unfortunately). I think he'll do fine for Geralt, but I don't think the show will be very good no matter who the actors are.

[thorgrim29]

Hmmmm... Geralt is a bit more tricky than generic emotionless warrior guy, he needs an actor that will be able to sell that his facade is that but that there's a lot going on beneath the surface... I wonder if they tried to get the guy who did Logan and Godless to take the helm, it's his kind of protagonist.

[Anteros]

Hmmmm... Geralt is a bit more tricky than generic emotionless warrior guy, he needs an actor that will be able to sell that his facade is that but that there's a lot going on beneath the surface... I wonder if they tried to get the guy who did Logan and Godless to take the helm, it's his kind of protagonist.

I never really felt that Geralt had all that much going on beneath the surface. He's not completely generic or anything, but he's hardly an original character that you'd need a fantastic actor for either. I've only read one of the novels, and I never played the second game, so I'm sure I'm not getting the full depth of the character though.

Then again, I didn't particularly enjoy the book I read or the games, so that's probably coloring my perception.

[Dr.Samurai]

Didn't care for Henry Cavill in The Count of Monte Cristo, but he was still pretty young. Then I saw him in Immortals and thought he was still pretty bad. He's okay as Superman, for the material he was given.

[Olinser]

I didn't know about the Showrunner. That's... not good news.

In a sense "throw it in there and figure it out later" is standard for television. A lot of serial writers have no idea what they're doing with a plot element when first introduced. You generally only get like four episodes worth of story done before production starts catching up to you and that can be a recipie for disaster if you have 20+ to write. Hence why the CW hero shows have so much forced drama and secrets even the characters speaking clearly don't know except to imply they have a secret, because the writer hasn't thought that far ahead.

That's why Netflix shows are expected to be better. It's one lump release and production and you're expected to have it figured out ahead of time. But if this isnt the case then there's no real point.

This is a heck of a lot different than that though. It shows where their priorities are - and their main priorities are apparently NOT to faithfully adapt the characters.

It would be a whole different deal if they had picked a good actress regardless of race. Then you're picking somebody you think can represent the character. Probably the best GOOD example of this is Samuel Jackson playing Nick Fury. Now, in the comics, Nick Fury is white. But Samuel Jackson WORKS as Fury because he's a badass, and does a great job of embodying the Fury from the comics. Marvel went looking for somebody that would do a great job playing Nick Fury, and they found him.

But they didn't do a casting call generically looking for black actors to play Nick Fury. Which would have been EXACTLY the wrong way to go about it, and I guarantee somebody like Samuel Jackson wouldn't have shown up for that casting call.

And that's exactly what they're doing here. They don't have an open casting call, and then picked the best person they felt would represent the character, even if its a minority that doesn't necessarily looks like Ciri. They STARTED from a position of, "find a minority to play Ciri'.

And given that they coupled that with things that seem to paint Ciri as the lead of the series, along with some really questionable statements by the showrunner and writers, and from what I see this is shaping up to be a disaster of a series.

[Aotrs Commander]

This is a heck of a lot different than that though. It shows where their priorities are - and their main priorities are apparently NOT to faithfully adapt the characters.

It would be a whole different deal if they had picked a good actress regardless of race. Then you're picking somebody you think can represent the character. Probably the best GOOD example of this is Samuel Jackson playing Nick Fury. Now, in the comics, Nick Fury is white. But Samuel Jackson WORKS as Fury because he's a badass, and does a great job of embodying the Fury from the comics. Marvel went looking for somebody that would do a great job playing Nick Fury, and they found him.

But they didn't do a casting call generically looking for black actors to play Nick Fury. Which would have been EXACTLY the wrong way to go about it, and I guarantee somebody like Samuel Jackson wouldn't have shown up for that casting call.

And that's exactly what they're doing here. They don't have an open casting call, and then picked the best person they felt would represent the character, even if its a minority that doesn't necessarily looks like Ciri. They STARTED from a position of, "find a minority to play Ciri'.

And given that they coupled that with things that seem to paint Ciri as the lead of the series, along with some really questionable statements by the showrunner and writers, and from what I see this is shaping up to be a disaster of a series.

I think it was more like Ultimate Marvel was already using Samual L Jackson's likeness as Ultimate Nick Fury - for whatever reason - so they just cast him (actually thy probably just asked him and he practically jumped for it) in the like-action MCU. But they were casting him because, he was, well, Samual L Jackson specifically. He's one of those actors (like BRIAN BLESSED) I am convinced you could cast as literally anything and it would be good.



On the whole black Nilfgaard thing... I am compelled to point out that there is no reason Nilfgaard can't be both black and the bad guys (sic), because everyone deserves a chance to be the bad guys occasionally, regardless of genetic make-up. (And why shouldn't they? Being the bad guy is so much more fun.) There isn't some law that says all bad guys have to be white British people (even though the British ARE good at it...)

You can make the arguement that Nilfgaard can't be black because geography says wrong ethnicity for the time period, but you can't really say they can't be black because bad guy - I mean, that line of thinking gets perilously close to "the bad guys have to be white" which is equally potentially problematic itself.

(Though that assumes a level of thought has gone into it, not just tokenly tick-boxing the main cast.)

[Corvus]

And if anything what I always pictured to be "Slavic" are the small northern kingdoms where Geralt runs around. Nilfgaard is a fantasy Ottoman empire that conquered "Europe" and is closing in on these kingdoms, neither in the books' lore nor in the real world analogies are NIlfgaardian supposed to be "Slavic".

I was under the impression that Nilfgaard was meant to be the Holy Roman Empire expy - which makes sense given the long history of aggression the Germans have had towards their Slavic (and especially Polish) neighbours.

Their are African and Middle Eastern equivalents in the Witcher universe, but they are distant, on the other side of the Nilfgaard Empire and as such seldom seen in the north but they do crop up from time to time.

Given that, if they wanted diversity, they could have used someone from down there, places like Zerrikania, Haakland, Hannu, Ofir or elsewhere, and have them be a visitor to the north.

[Clertar]

That might be it. It might be both, I also saw Balkan undertones in the kingdoms and invasions but that might be my background.

In any case, with the Holy Roman Empire model, the Slavic analogy is even more off. Poland would be one of the northern kingdoms---but Silesia was German-speaking until 70 years ago. And Bohemia was a Czech-speaking kingdom, but it was a part of the HRE and had a prince elector of the Empire. Not to say that it's not inspired by the military history of Poland, of course it is. But whereas I can see the conflicts and battles based on Poland-HRE conflict, Nilfgaard always seemed more foreign.

[Chen]

On the whole black Nilfgaard thing... I am compelled to point out that there is no reason Nilfgaard can't be both black and the bad guys (sic), because everyone deserves a chance to be the bad guys occasionally, regardless of genetic make-up. (And why shouldn't they? Being the bad guy is so much more fun.) There isn't some law that says all bad guys have to be white British people (even though the British ARE good at it...)

You can make the arguement that Nilfgaard can't be black because geography says wrong ethnicity for the time period, but you can't really say they can't be black because bad guy - I mean, that line of thinking gets perilously close to "the bad guys have to be white" which is equally potentially problematic itself.

The only problem with Nilfgaard being racially black is the epithet used for them in the games/books (where they are not black) is "The Black Ones" ("the Blacks" if you translate literally from Polish). It would change the connotation of the epithet and imply a racism in the Northern Kingdoms which isn't the actual case. They're only called that because of their black plate armor and the black feathers they used to decorate it.

[Aotrs Commander]

The only problem with Nilfgaard being racially black is the epithet used for them in the games/books (where they are not black) is "The Black Ones" ("the Blacks" if you translate literally from Polish). It would change the connotation of the epithet and imply a racism in the Northern Kingdoms which isn't the actual case. They're only called that because of their black plate armor and the black feathers they used to decorate it.

So if they were cauasian and were called the "White Ones" because they had white armour, it would also be impliying racism?

Could Sauron (or any other Dark Lord) never be played by a black guy?

I think that disqulifying any group of one ethnicity from being presented as a group named after a colour because it happens to be vaguely similar to the Western world's incorrect human-skin colour terminology is a bit... Stupid. Especially in something which is an adaption of an already existing thing.

I think there comes a point where giving more regard to incorrect human colour terminolgy (humans are not actually white or black, they are off-pink to brown1) over actual colour terminology - in ANY direction - is itself as problematic as the thing it is trying to not be. I would go as far as to say by underlining that, it inherently makes it okay to make that divide between people, which is wrong, I feel as an equalist.

A spade is sometimes just a spade - and I think that sometimes, that needs to be re-iterated.



It might, at this point, be worth asking what - if anything - the lore calls various skin-colours and assuming it is not exactly the same as in English (since the native language is Polish - I don't know whather it's the same or not).



But a), this is skating close to board rules and b) I have the feeling that we may be giving it far more consideration that the show is likely to have, if what people are saying is true.



1Am I fairly sure if correct colour terminology was globally enforced, the sillyness-sounding of it would debunk a lot of problems - "off-pink supremacists" doesn't sound like anything other than a bad joke, does it?

[Rynjin]

So if they were cauasian and were called the "White Ones" because they had white armour, it would also be impliying racism?

A more salient example is the White Devil trope. Yes, it has racist connotations both ways.

[Chen]

"Black Ones" produces an immediate racial connotation (particularly for people who are not familiar with the work) because of how the Western world identifies people of certain racial backgrounds. So yes, if you make the entire empire of "Black Ones" racially black, the general public is going to assume the name came from some racial connotation. Sure if society didn't identify races as "black" and "white" it wouldn't be an issue. But that is how we identify these things and thus the issue. Now if EVERYONE cast were black it would work since if one set of black people called another set of black people "Black Ones", you're going to assume they're referring to something other than skin color. But even if it's evident they're in black armor or the like, people in today's society are going to think "race" when they here some non-black people calling a group of black people "Black Ones". That's a pitfall the show should probably avoid if it wants to succeed.

[Divayth Fyr]

Its not impossible that Ciri and her father are black or Hispanic even if theyre still a minority in Nilfgaard. Asian seems... unlikely to me, since the Witcher series lacks an analogue anywhere near the main region of the books.
The one description we have for her father called him "pale", but the more important thing is that Ciri managed to pass for a regular child. If she was black (or half-black) she'd kinda stand out in the Northern Kingdoms...

[danzibr]

Huh. Because of this I might watch the show.

[Keltest]

The one description we have for her father called him "pale", but the more important thing is that Ciri managed to pass for a regular child. If she was black (or half-black) she'd kinda stand out in the Northern Kingdoms...

I don't recall Ciri ever passing for a normal child. Indeed, they mention that her ashen hair is rather unusual, being used as one of her more distinguishing features.

[Mechalich]

The one description we have for her father called him "pale", but the more important thing is that Ciri managed to pass for a regular child. If she was black (or half-black) she'd kinda stand out in the Northern Kingdoms...

That actually relates to a key secondary question. Are they going to simply cast a small number of non-white people in lead roles, or are they going to completely remake the setting to make it much more diverse overall? The latter approach has seen some use recently - for example in MCU Asgard or the live-action Beauty and the Beast movie. That allows non-white characters to fit in fairly seamlessly, but it has the side effect of eroding ethnicity as a cultural marker for storytelling purposes. I don't know enough about the Witcher to say what kind of impacts this would have on the lore, but in most quasi-medieval settings it would be non-zero.

[BRC]

I know that The Witcher games (Which, yes it was a well regarded and expansive book series before the games, but the games are most people's exposure to the franchise), were criticized for having the world consist exclusively of white people (There were a few arabic/turkish equivalents in the Hearts Of Stone DLC). This might be representing a deliberate effort to head that off at the pass. As people have mentioned, The Witcher series (At least in the games) sits pretty strongly on the pan-european fantasy aesthetic.

As for the Casting, my guess is the you generally cast the central characters first, and then cast any of their relations as appropriate. Also, it's fantasy, historical correctness isn't remotely relevant. There were far more black people in medieval Europe than there were elves, dwarves, or potatoes.


That actually relates to a key secondary question. Are they going to simply cast a small number of non-white people in lead roles, or are they going to completely remake the setting to make it much more diverse overall? The latter approach has seen some use recently - for example in MCU Asgard or the live-action Beauty and the Beast movie. That allows non-white characters to fit in fairly seamlessly, but it has the side effect of eroding ethnicity as a cultural marker for storytelling purposes. I don't know enough about the Witcher to say what kind of impacts this would have on the lore, but in most quasi-medieval settings it would be non-zero.
Well, in the Witcher games, just about everybody was White, so Ethnicity was never used as a cultural marker in the first place. My guess is they're going to take the Asgard approach, and just present a fantasy world with an ethnic makeup that roughly matches the modern United States. Let Elves and Dwarves serve as stand-ins for ethnic minorities.

As for creative reasons why, I can think of a few besides a desire to make the cast more diverse.


1) Clearly separate the TV show from the books and the games. A clear statement/reminder that this adaptation isn't necessarily trying to tell the same story that the books or games were. The Witcher as a concept is fertile ground for all sorts of stories, not just the ones explored in the games. If the cast doesn't look like their in-game counterparts, people are more likely to accept the series on it's own merits, rather than as a re-enactment of the games that Keeps Getting Things Wrong. I mean, that's a theory anyway. It's worked decently for comic book adaptations, most people have accepted that MCU Heimdall is Idris Elba.

2) Make it visually clear that Ciri is not Geralt's biological daughter, without needing to constantly reference backstory/setting details. Them being related is not a hard assumption to make if you look at their in-game models and interactions. Having them be different ethnicities is an easy way to establish to/remind the viewer that they're not biologically related.

3) They don't want her to look like Dany from Game of Thrones.

4) Maybe they want to visually reinforce the idea of Ciri as a unique individual with powerful magic baked into her very nature. White hair and darker complexion (Ala Storm from the X-Men) could serve as a nice visual reminder that she's got a little more strangeness to her than your average Spunky Girl Sidekick.



Edit: my guess is that, regardless, they'll do away with referring to the Niflgardians as "Black Ones". It's easy enough to just call them "Nilfgardians" or "Imperials" or what have you.

[thorgrim29]

3) They don't want her to look like Dany from Game of Thrones.

Yeah that's a good point, didn't even consider that since I stopped watching GoT a few seasons ago but they're going to get hit with ''Netflix GoT'' enough without the main ''special girl'' character being a white teenage girl with white hair.

[Temotei]

The very first book (well, series of short stories) The Last Wish has his healer friend comment on how he let his guard down when he fought the striga. Its never really made clear if Geralt is actually slowing down or if a concerned friend is just telling him he should stop throwing himself at monsters.

Geralt was also really vague about what the contract entailed--he didn't say he had to grapple the striga into submission, which is what caused his injury, as far as I can remember.

[The Troubadour]

Pseudo-Tolkienian elves, dwarves and dragons in a fantasy world based on "slavic" myths and folklore, that's just fine; but black people? Now that's just crazy talk. The internet never ceases to amaze.

People ought to remember that, historically, Europe used to be quite a bit more diverse than the common narrative leads them to believe.

[Ibrinar]

Well, in the Witcher games, just about everybody was White, so Ethnicity was never used as a cultural marker in the first place. My guess is they're going to take the Asgard approach, and just present a fantasy world with an ethnic makeup that roughly matches the modern United States. Let Elves and Dwarves serve as stand-ins for ethnic minorities.



That is such an American thing to say.^^ In a fantasy medival thing the main divider isn't white and black. There are loads of Ethnic groups among people in the white grouping. (Yes some black people existed there as well but afaik were rather minor minorities.)

[Eldan]

I mean, yes, there were the occasional black people in medieval Europe, but I'd expect them to be pretty rare in Central European nobility. Especially as Emperors.

Look, I'm not especially opposed to having black people in this, but having the offspring of the Emperor be black creates a ton of knock-on effects. And I don't think this was especially thought through, either. It feels like stunt casting for controversy, instead of something done for world building.

[Keltest]

Geralt was also really vague about what the contract entailed--he didn't say he had to grapple the striga into submission, which is what caused his injury, as far as I can remember.
Probably because he didn't. He kept it at bay, then snuck into her coffin and magically sealed it shut over the night. She couldn't break in because a striga needs to spend time in her coffin or the curse is broken. But when he woke up, he was inspecting the seemingly unconscious princess to make sure she was all the way transformed, and she got a surprise attack that tore up his throat a bit.

The first game had a really cool cinematic made of the encounter that's fairly accurate to the books.

[Calemyr]

I think the problem with the Ciri thing is that they are looking for an actress of a non-canon heritage. This isn't a "this actress is just so good that we had to shift the setting a little just so we could use her" situation, they don't have an actress in mind. This is "I want to subvert the expectations of the fans" if not flat out "I want to make a point with my casting choices". I doubt a black or asian Ciri would be a deal breaker to virtually anyone if she could provide a superior performance, but breaking canon just to fill a quota is a cynical and willful move that sours a fanbase who loves the character for who she already is.

I'll admit I never really got into the games. I tried the first one because I saw a Bioware label on the box and at that time was of the opinion they could do no wrong (turns out they just bought the game engine off of Bioware rather than the company having anything to do with the production). Just felt too busy and needlessly over-complicated when I just want a game to be fun. So I don't have a great deal of investment in the franchise. This show was never high on my hype index, but Cavil is not impressing me and I hate having politics dictate my entertainment. I'll keep an ear out, though, in case their casting choice proves true. I don't much care the race, creed, or gender of a character as long as they can pull me out of my world for an hour or two.

[Eldan]

Maybe give Witcher 3 a try. It's an entirely different beast and miles better. Witcher 1 really was fairly horrible.

[Calemyr]

Maybe give Witcher 3 a try. It's an entirely different beast and miles better. Witcher 1 really was fairly horrible.

I might. I bought it during a steam sale a while ago, but I never really looked into it. At the moment, however, I've got Dragon Quest XI, Spider-man PS4, Original Sin 2 Definitive Edition, and Monster Hunter World competing for my hours after work.

[Aotrs Commander]

I think the problem with the Ciri thing is that they are looking for an actress of a non-canon heritage. This isn't a "this actress is just so good that we had to shift the setting a little just so we could use her" situation, they don't have an actress in mind. This is "I want to subvert the expectations of the fans" if not flat out "I want to make a point with my casting choices". I doubt a black or asian Ciri would be a deal breaker to virtually anyone if she could provide a superior performance, but breaking canon just to fill a quota is a cynical and willful move that sours a fanbase who loves the character for who she already is.

Yeah, okay, THAT is a significantly more massive problem.

[Devonix]

Well it's official Henry Cavill is no longer signed on to play as Superman in the DC movies.

[Olinser]

I think the problem with the Ciri thing is that they are looking for an actress of a non-canon heritage. This isn't a "this actress is just so good that we had to shift the setting a little just so we could use her" situation, they don't have an actress in mind. This is "I want to subvert the expectations of the fans" if not flat out "I want to make a point with my casting choices". I doubt a black or asian Ciri would be a deal breaker to virtually anyone if she could provide a superior performance, but breaking canon just to fill a quota is a cynical and willful move that sours a fanbase who loves the character for who she already is.

I'll admit I never really got into the games. I tried the first one because I saw a Bioware label on the box and at that time was of the opinion they could do no wrong (turns out they just bought the game engine off of Bioware rather than the company having anything to do with the production). Just felt too busy and needlessly over-complicated when I just want a game to be fun. So I don't have a great deal of investment in the franchise. This show was never high on my hype index, but Cavil is not impressing me and I hate having politics dictate my entertainment. I'll keep an ear out, though, in case their casting choice proves true. I don't much care the race, creed, or gender of a character as long as they can pull me out of my world for an hour or two.

Which is exactly what I said.

It demonstrates that the showrunners are more interested in scoring cheap political points than actually faithfully adapting the source material and making a good show. If they're willing to change something that basic then they're going to feel free to rewrite and change ANYTHING in the name of pushing their agenda, rather than making a good story.

[Lemmy]

Gotta admit... The Ciri thing definetely killed most of whatever little interest aI had in the series after I learned it was being made by the same guy who made Defenders... Idiots on the internet implying that anyone who dislikes the casting choice is racist was the final nail in the coffin (doesn't seem to be to be the case here in giantitp, thankfully).

Sadly, this is just another generic series to ignore. Netflix productions disappoint again. No surprises there.

On a separate note... Are the English version of the books a good adaptation? Like most people, I first heard of The Witcher through the games, and I've been meaning to read the books.

[Olinser]

Gotta admit... The Ciri thing definetely killed most of whatever little interest aI had in the series after I learned it was being made by the same guy who made Defenders... Idiots on the internet implying that anyone who dislikes the casting choice is racist was the final nail in the coffin (doesn't seem to be to be the case here in giantitp, thankfully).

Sadly, this is just another generic series to ignore. Netflix productions disappoint again. No surprises there.

On a separate note... Are the English version of the books a good adaptation? Like most people, I first heard of The Witcher through the games, and I've been meaning to read the books.

Books are decent. Not the best series ever but if you like fantasy its an entertaining read.

[Eldan]

Welp. I just got a half hour tirade over lunch from a Polish colleague at work. Apparently, the American Imperialists are out to destory the Polish Cultural Heritage and the Polish ambassador should officially cut all ties with NATO, then demand that the studio executives get put against the wall. (This is a slightly exaggerated version of what he actually said.)

[JadedDM]

The Ciri thing definetely killed most of whatever little interest aI had in the series after I learned it was being made by the same guy who made Defenders.
That's not entirely accurate.

The showrunner for the Witcher show is Lauren S. Hissrich, who was a writer for Daredevil and the Defenders, but was not the showrunner for either. She didn't 'make' either show, she just wrote a few scripts for them.

Also, she is definitely not a guy.

[-D-]

On the whole black Nilfgaard thing... I am compelled to point out that there is no reason Nilfgaard can't be both black and the bad guys (sic), because everyone deserves a chance to be the bad guys occasionally, regardless of genetic make-up.
Because it fails on multiple levels in-universe. In games you have Nilfgaard spies and defectors hiding in Northerner populace...

Black Nilfgaardian in Northerner's land would look like this:
https://img.memecdn.com/bluff_o_963020.jpg

I guess you could make every Nilfgaardian spy look white, but then you have to explain that. Were they a genetic experiment? An illusion that can be dispelled? Why didn't Northeners just track any non-black Nilfgaard couple?

So at very, very best - Nilfgaardians need to be mixed, which kind of fits, they are a quasi Roman (E pluribus unum) kind of Empire. But if they are mixed race, what prevents Nilfgaard from sending all black soldiers to fight in Northener territories, knowing they can't defect easily?

Like best you could do, is cast Ciri mixed race, but if she is would anyone welcome her, knowing she is probably related to someone from Nilfgard? It almost kinda fits for Bloody Baron to help her, but then the Skellige wouldn't help her.

[Morty]

What we're arguing for seems to be at best a context-less bit of the casting process... but whoever put it up on Reddit or wherever it first surfaced has certainly accomplished their goal.

[-D-]

Man, I won't even lie. I'd love to see good ol' Gaunter O'Dimm and his wacky spoon related shenanigans. If this series manages to get close to that, it's going to be awesome.

[Calemyr]

Black Nilfgaardian in Northerner's land would look like this:
https://img.memecdn.com/bluff_o_963020.jpg

Thank you. This really cheered me up, not least because it reminds me of a great scene from Blazing Saddles.


Baby, you are so talented... and they are so dumb.

[Lemmy]

That's not entirely accurate.

The showrunner for the Witcher show is Lauren S. Hissrich, who was a writer for Daredevil and the Defenders, but was not the showrunner for either. She didn't 'make' either show, she just wrote a few scripts for them.

Also, she is definitely not a guy.
Well, juding by qualitynof writing per episode, whatever she wrote for DD has about a 30% chance that is sucks... That goes up to about 100% for The Defenders.

Do the odds of she writing something good for TW are not in her favor.

And I don't care if she's a guy or not. I had only heard her last name.

[Devonix]

Well, juding by qualitynof writing per episode, whatever she wrote for DD has about a 30% chance that is sucks... That goes up to about 100% for The Defenders.

Do the odds of she writing something good for TW are not in her favor.

And I don't care if she's a guy or not. I had only heard her last name.

She was also a long time writer for the West Wing if that makes you feel any better. Boils down to this person having a long history of good work to go by.

[Lemmy]

She was also a long time writer for the West Wing if that makes you feel any better. Boils down to this person having a long history of good work to go by.
I have never watched even a single episode WW, so it doesn't mean anything to me...

[Devonix]

I have never watched even a single episode WW, so it doesn't mean anything to me...

Point is that the person has a long history in the industry. And if you're going to comment on how good or bad someone might be writing a new show. It's good to look back on the breadth of their work. We have no real info on the Witcher series so this is how we can guage what they might do with it.

You can't take one or two episodes this person has done and say. This is gonna be great, or This is gonna be terrible.

[thorgrim29]

She was also a long time writer for the West Wing if that makes you feel any better.

So there's going to be a lot of walk the Path and talk?

Jokes aside, she's credited as the writer for all episodes of Defenders, while that's not all she's done it's still a bit concerning.

[Lemmy]

Being a long time in the industry doesn't really mean anything. Michael Bay has a long time in the industry. Adam Sandler has a long time in the industry. Freaking Carrot Top has a long time in the industry.

Besides, that's only half the issue. The whole thing about the Ciri casting is more than enough to kill my interest. I have better ways to spend my time.

[GolemsVoice]

Isn't the whole "black Ciri" thing a rumour from some anonymous source, which has, btw already been contradicted by another anonymous source?

[Eldan]

No, the showrunner confirmed it and the casting notice is online. It says "minority", though, not black.

[Calemyr]

Isn't the whole "black Ciri" thing a rumour from some anonymous source, which has, btw already been contradicted by another anonymous source?

Haven't heard about a contradicting source, but at this point I can't imagine there's a lot of spinning and backpedaling going on. Whether or not you believe in the former, I definitely expect the latter.

As for the original source, according the channels I heard it from, the casting notes for Ciri were posted on Reddit, explicitly saying they were looking for a black or Asian minority 15 year old girl who could play down to 13.

Edit: Looking back on it, the specific racial details are a matter of side conversations, not the casting notes themselves, and it just got dragged along for the ride. So that part is my bad.

[GolemsVoice]

https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/9f2cs9/megathread_updated_information_regarding_the/

This is the information I'm going on.

[Devonix]

https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/comments/9f2cs9/megathread_updated_information_regarding_the/

This is the information I'm going on.

In other words people were probably jumping up and down making complaints about uncredited rumors again. Thanks internet.

[Olinser]

In other words people were probably jumping up and down making complaints about uncredited rumors again. Thanks internet.

In other words its already been confirmed by the showrunner, it's not an uncredited rumor, it's confirmed fact.

[Rynjin]

Point is that the person has a long history in the industry. And if you're going to comment on how good or bad someone might be writing a new show. It's good to look back on the breadth of their work. We have no real info on the Witcher series so this is how we can guage what they might do with it.

You can't take one or two episodes this person has done and say. This is gonna be great, or This is gonna be terrible.

It's a telling trend that she can't write fantasy very well. The West Wing is a different sort of show, that takes a different sort of writing, and the Defenders was like 80% trash, and so was most of Daredevil Season 2, which is the season she wrote for.

It'd be a bit more telling if I knew exactly what scenes she had a direct hand in. If it was the courtroom scenes it kinda proves my point; those were some of the best ones in Daredevil season 2. It marks that she's great at writing legal drama and big on interpersonal melodrama (which isn't my bag, but is what shows like West Wing, Private Practice, and Power often thrive on), but not so great at writing the big action set pieces and overarching plot (with most of the shows I'm seeing her hand in being largely episodic) a show like Daredevil, Defenders, or Witcher requires.

[GolemsVoice]

In other words its already been confirmed by the showrunner, it's not an uncredited rumor, it's confirmed fact.

Got a link to that? All I see is just that, rumours. And I kept looking for that casting call, and while I saw some sites that already treated it like a fact, others wrote about allegations and rumours. I also never found where the showrunner confirmed anything.

[Morty]

I have likewise never seen an actual confirmation. I did see a tweet from the showrunner saying she won't comment on casting, but of course I haven't been following this debacle closely.

[Jan Mattys]

I'll admit I never really got into the games. I tried the first one because I saw a Bioware label on the box and at that time was of the opinion they could do no wrong (turns out they just bought the game engine off of Bioware rather than the company having anything to do with the production). Just felt too busy and needlessly over-complicated when I just want a game to be fun. So I don't have a great deal of investment in the franchise.

I'll second giving TW3 a try. I never played 1 or 2, but 3 is among my top5 rpgs ever, and a solid contender for the first place. It looks beautiful, and it plays beautifully.

[-D-]

I'll second giving TW3 a try. I never played 1 or 2, but 3 is among my top5 rpgs ever, and a solid contender for the first place. It looks beautiful, and it plays beautifully.
I played 1 but not 2, I loved 3 and you actually don't need to play previous installment, since 3 just goes - Oh, Geralt has all his memories back. Also there is Yennefer (you never saw before).

[Jayngfet]

2 is underrated but is a wonderful game in its own right and one of the few RPG's where your choices actually impact gameplay and story in a real, substantial way. 3 kinda carried that over which is still nice.

[Rynjin]

I feel like the first game is the most underrated; I'd never heard of the series until 2 came out, and being the completionist I am decided I couldn't play it until I'd beaten the first one.

It's a great game, with an interesting combat style "stance" system I'm sad they did away with for the simpler (and more boring) light/heavy attack system, and while cumbersome at parts has a good narrative and interesting side quests to carry you through some of the sloggier parts.

I'm sad to hear so many people talk down about it in this thread and elsewhere.

[Morty]

I also have something of a soft spot for Witcher 1's timing-based combat. It was as janky as the game in general, but it had its charm. The light/heavy attacks of Witcher 2 and 3 are a lot more typical.

[Avilan the Grey]

I'm not really into the whole Geralt thing. I mean I respect the games, but I never even finished the first one and the second one is just sitting in my Steam library. I never installed it or started it.
That said I hope to god this will be handled by someone competent. I would hate to have it sorted on the "another video game movie" pile.

[Jayngfet]

As much as 1 has it's fans 2 and 3 are a very different animal from the first and from each other. If 2 had been released in any year that didn't have a Zelda, Elder Scrolls, Portal, and Mario launch all at once it'd have easily been a GOTY contender and probably should have been higher up in the running anyway. 3 was good enough to basically sweep every major award despite being an indie game from eastern europe from a third party studio that had never developed anything besides those specific games, based on a series that hadn't had a main entry for like a decade and a tv movie nobody liked. 2 in and of itself was so good Poland's PM personally gifted the U.S. president with a copy when he came over.

[thorgrim29]

So has there been any more news? I haven't heard anything about the show and it's casting in the last few weeks.

[JadedDM]

No, the last thing I heard was that the showrunner was harassed to the point that she had to take a break from Twitter. Probably why we haven't heard anything more on the show since then.

[Clertar]

So we have a Ciri and a Yennefer:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/witcher-netflix-show-casts-ciri-yennefer-roles-1150868

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/ciri-yenefer.jpg?w=446&h=299&crop=1

Great choice, both of them! (And many playgrounders will no doubt be alleviated by Ciri's skin colour https://www.racocatala.cat/imatges/smileys/riure.gif)

[GloatingSwine]

A bit on the young side for Yennefer, would have preferred someone a bit closer to Cavill in age so they look more like a relationship between equals like they are in the books. (Bearing in mind in this time period Yennefer should be closing in on 90 years old and takes no **** off anyone)

[Morty]

Looks like the whole outrage was based on an unsubstantiated rumor, or at best an out-of-context piece of the casting process. Who'd have thought?

[Clertar]

A bit on the young side for Yennefer, would have preferred someone a bit closer to Cavill in age so they look more like a relationship between equals like they are in the books. (Bearing in mind in this time period Yennefer should be closing in on 90 years old and takes no **** off anyone)

Female magicians in this world make themselves look really young, while males like to look mature and experienced. That age fits Yennefer perfectly, the actress actually should look younger than the actor portraying Geralt:

A young woman entered the circle of light. Her black hair was tied up with a golden net, and she wore a woollen cloak.

(...)

Men, for their reputation and prestige, preferred a look of maturity that would suggest wisdom and experience. Women---like Yennefer---cared less about prestige and more about their beauty.

(...)

"I cannot tell your age, witcher, but I bet you're much older than your looks would suggest. That's why that woman..."
"That woman," Geralt cut him off coldly "must look much younger than I do."
"A sorceress?"
"Yes."

[Talking about Geralt's mother, who was a sorceress.]


(From The Sword of Destiny)


So in the Witcher saga sorceresses make themselves look like young women. And Geralt says that his mother, just from knowing she's a sorceress, must look much younger than he does.

[Ashen Lilies]

I also think the pictures they used in the casting announcement are not very good.

Here's another pair taken from recent parts that I think are better.

http://cdn2us.denofgeek.com/sites/denofgeekus/files/2018/10/freya-allan-into-the-badlands-anya-chalotra-wanderlust.jpg

[Chen]

Having only the game to go off for Yenn I do also feel that actress is a bit young. Ciri also looks young but I believe this is set much earlier than the Witcher 3 so that kinda follows. Problem is Yennifer and Geralt always looked more or less contemporary (despite any actual differences in age).

[Keltest]

Having only the game to go off for Yenn I do also feel that actress is a bit young. Ciri also looks young but I believe this is set much earlier than the Witcher 3 so that kinda follows. Problem is Yennifer and Geralt always looked more or less contemporary (despite any actual differences in age).

Really? Because Geralt has always looked like a scarred older man, while Yen looks like... well, a sorceress, frankly. Geralt does nothing to hide his age, even if as a witcher he only looks like a man in his 30s-40s, and not in his 100s.

[GloatingSwine]

Female magicians in this world make themselves look really young, while males like to look mature and experienced. That age fits Yennefer perfectly, the actress actually should look younger than the actor portraying Geralt:


Whilst that's true and works for a book, putting them together in a movie and conveying a relationship between equals via the camera has different requirements.

[Jayngfet]

Vesemir says so in the third game. But the timeline of the books is vague at best, so that may or may not be true. And some years pass between the last book and the first game anyway.

Geralt is explicitly in his 80's in the first book and Ciri is conceived during it. Him being about 100 in the last game when Ciri has become an adult checks out. If anything he should be closer to 110 than 100.

As well lets keep in mind that wizards and sorceresses were never the only two types of magic user out there. The druid from 3 shows up with young Crach an Crait and Ciri's parents in the same anthology short. In fact, one of the things Geralt makes not of fairly regularly early on is that the more like a powerful wizard or sorceress someone dresses, the least likely they are to be one. There are frauds, fakers, minor mystics, and equivalents all over the place. If Geralt meets a dude with a beard and pointy hat and they can actually do magic it's the exception and not the rule.

[Morty]

Where does it say that Geralt is in his eighties in Last Wish? I haven't read it in a while, so I may be forgetting something.

[GloatingSwine]

Geralt is explicitly in his 80's in the first book and Ciri is conceived during it. Him being about 100 in the last game when Ciri has become an adult checks out. If anything he should be closer to 110 than 100.


Geralt's age is never explicitly stated in any of the books.

[Nilan8888]

Looks like the whole outrage was based on an unsubstantiated rumor, or at best an out-of-context piece of the casting process. Who'd have thought?

That said, it brought to light a couple things I hadn't thought about the original work.

Although I didn't think changing the ethnicity of Ciri to black or asian was the right move... seemed a bit random to me... when I thought about it, I DID start thinking Ciri as white didn't quite fit the environment she hailed from.

Nilfgaard always seemed to have these southern connotations, but not TOO far south, if you get my meaning. So I started thinking a background from Italian to Greek to Persian or Arab would have been an ideal fit. Now that I see a Ciri closer in line to the game, now I'm thinking... eeeh, you know it actually doesn't seem to fit anymore.

Agh, these casting calls ruining the entire sage for me! I can't be satisfied!

[Keltest]

That said, it brought to light a couple things I hadn't thought about the original work.

Although I didn't think changing the ethnicity of Ciri to black or asian was the right move... seemed a bit random to me... when I thought about it, I DID start thinking Ciri as white didn't quite fit the environment she hailed from.

Nilfgaard always seemed to have these southern connotations, but not TOO far south, if you get my meaning. So I started thinking a background from Italian to Greek to Persian or Arab would have been an ideal fit. Now that I see a Ciri closer in line to the game, now I'm thinking... eeeh, you know it actually doesn't seem to fit anymore.

Agh, these casting calls ruining the entire sage for me! I can't be satisfied!

I think its worth noting that the Nilfgaardians are ethnically similar enough to the Northern Kingdoms that Emhyr is not readily identifiable as being Nilfgaardian when his curse is broken. While his genealogy and backstory are not completely and truthfully explained, I don't believe theres any indication that the imperial family was of substantially foreign stock, and the empire itself at the very least pays attention to one's origins, as Cahir claims that in the empire only those actually hailing from the city of Nilfgaard and the immediate surroundings are considered Nilfgaardians.

[Divayth Fyr]

Similiarly there is a moment where Calanthe presents Geralt a group of children ordering him to find the child of Emhyr and Pavetta among them. While the real difficulty was
that Ciri wasn't there, this means either Geralt wouldn't expect Ciri to have a skin tone different from the usual child in Cintra or that the queen had access to a bunch of half-nilfgaardian, half-cintrian children. I kinda put my money on the former...

[Morty]

Let's keep in mind that it's highly unlikely that Sapkowski had Duny's real identity even vaguely in mind when he wrote A Question of Price.

[Keltest]

Similiarly there is a moment where Calanthe presents Geralt a group of children ordering him to find the child of Emhyr and Pavetta among them. While the real difficulty was
that Ciri wasn't there, this means either Geralt wouldn't expect Ciri to have a skin tone different from the usual child in Cintra or that the queen had access to a bunch of half-nilfgaardian, half-cintrian children. I kinda put my money on the former...

In my copy at least, Ciri was there. The trick was that Geralt was expecting a boy, and she was the only girl.

[Jayngfet]

Geralt is mentioned as being in his 80's in one of the temple scenes. I don't have access to the books right now but I remember it distinctly. That may be a change from some other edition and as I understand it the temple scenes were a framing device made after the fact to turn these magazine anthologies into an actual novel. The version I read was a very recent publication that had game art as it's cover. This may be a Greedo Shot First type scenario and there's some kind of weird publication retcon. That or I'm misremembering, but it's odd that the ages being brought up line together well in that case.

[GolemsVoice]

I think its worth noting that the Nilfgaardians are ethnically similar enough to the Northern Kingdoms that Emhyr is not readily identifiable as being Nilfgaardian when his curse is broken. While his genealogy and backstory are not completely and truthfully explained, I don't believe theres any indication that the imperial family was of substantially foreign stock, and the empire itself at the very least pays attention to one's origins, as Cahir claims that in the empire only those actually hailing from the city of Nilfgaard and the immediate surroundings are considered Nilfgaardians.

I always figured that Nilfgaardians are kind of like the Roman empire, that is, one dominant people with a lot of smaller client states (like Toussaint, for example) that are integrated into the empire with a lot of self governance if they generally do what the Emperor asks, should he ask.

And while the Nilfgaardians from the games where always more Swedish-Germanic, from the books I got the impression that they include at least some regions with a more Mediterranean-like climate and people.

[-D-]

I always figured that Nilfgaardians are kind of like the Roman empire, that is, one dominant people with a lot of smaller client states (like Toussaint, for example) that are integrated into the empire with a lot of self governance if they generally do what the Emperor asks, should he ask.

And while the Nilfgaardians from the games where always more Swedish-Germanic, from the books I got the impression that they include at least some regions with a more Mediterranean-like climate and people.
If the witcher card game (and Witcher Wiki (http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Nilfgaardian_Empire)) is to be believed Nilfgaard has Zerrikanian contact, even as mercenaries. But nothing to really suggest they rule over Mediterran state.

[JadedDM]

First look (https://twitter.com/netflix/status/1057640842201055232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1057640842201055232&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.themarysue.com%2Fthe-witcher-henry-cavill-first-look%2F) at Henry Cavill in The Witcher. What the hell? He's not in a bathtub at all!

[GloatingSwine]

Needs a better wig.

It's not Starfire from Titans cheap, but it needs to look more like hair and less like nylon.

[factotum]

He looks far too "pretty"--witchers have a dirty job, and you'd expect some scars etc. from all that fighting--and what's with not having the iconic cat eyes? Being instantly recognisable as a witcher is part of how all the "normals" can simultaneously revile them and yet rely on them for the work they do.

[Rynjin]

Well, Geralt is a handsome man. And the facial scar is apparently new in the games, as Ciri comments.

With is still bad though. Eyes may end up CGI instead of contact lenses.

[Keltest]

In fairness, somebody who lets their face get stabbed is probably not doing that good a job. Faces are important.

[thorgrim29]

1800s fencers (and the ladies they went after) would disagree, they saw a few cool facial scars as a proof of rugged manliness (and would stand around cutting each other to get the look and therefore the babes, proving that young men thinking with their penis is a human universal). You'd think than in an era when people lost body parts to syphilis facial integrity would be looked for but I guess not.

Anyway, back on subject, Geralt fights huge things with crazy reflexes and claws regularly, it would be surprising if he'd never gotten cut in the face more than anything else, guess witchers don't scar easy.

[Keltest]

1800s fencers (and the ladies they went after) would disagree, they saw a few cool facial scars as a proof of rugged manliness (and would stand around cutting each other to get the look and therefore the babes, proving that young men thinking with their penis is a human universal). You'd think than in an era when people lost body parts to syphilis facial integrity would be looked for but I guess not.

Anyway, back on subject, Geralt fights huge things with crazy reflexes and claws regularly, it would be surprising if he'd never gotten cut in the face more than anything else, guess witchers don't scar easy.

Scars can be both cool and the result of getting smacked in the face when you didn't want to be.

[factotum]

Anyway, back on subject, Geralt fights huge things with crazy reflexes and claws regularly, it would be surprising if he'd never gotten cut in the face more than anything else, guess witchers don't scar easy.

I don't know if he's like that in the books, but in the games Eskel has an absolutely massive scar on his face that was clearly created by a set of very big claws.

[Keltest]

I don't know if he's like that in the books, but in the games Eskel has an absolutely massive scar on his face that was clearly created by a set of very big claws.

Eskel does have that scar in the book. One of the modules for the first game implies he got it from a magic blast to the face, and only survived because the other witchers and a sorceress were on hand to care for him. I don't know how canon that module is, or how accurate to the canon story if there is one.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That's uh, that's a look. Hoping it looks better in post. And that the Superface was just a thing for the teaser; it doesn't quite feel like Geralt to me.