Barbarian Feats

[Expected]

Compared to Fighters, Barbarians have less feats and have to be more selective as a result, especially if they want to max Str/Con. PAM, GWM, and Resilient (Wis) are important for optimization, but what about Mobile and Sentinel? Mobile synergizes well with the Eagle totem ability allowing flight as well as ensuring a PAM reaction attack each round--attacking and moving back 15 feet. Sentinel competes with PAM for a reaction and since the Barbarian will most likely be the main tank, it's not fully utilized compared to a Fighter or other melee character in the frontline next to a tank. Any feedback is appreciated.

[sophontteks]

Mobile- They have disadvantage on reactions from eagle already, and your a barbarian. You can take a hit. Moreso, you are supposed to take a hit. If you move back for your free reaction, and they instead decide to kill your wizard, you are going to look awful silly.

Sentinel- A much stronger pick IMO, because its actually helping you be a tank, unlike the latter. Its something to consider if the enemy keeps focusing other characters rather then you, but I wouldn't say its better then ASI in strength. Hitting harder and more often serves a similiar role. It makes you a threat, which makes you the focus.

[CTurbo]

All five feats mentioned are great for Barbarians and yes under most circumstances, you won't be able to take even three of them much less four. It all comes down to what important to you. If you plan to wield a 2 handed weapon and want to do as much damage as possible, GWM is a must. If you want to shore up your single biggest weakness, Res(Wis) is a must. I would put those 2 at the top of the list but they are by no means mandatory. PAM is nice for for Barbs, you're choosing between PAM or GWM, not both like the Fighter. Sentinel is great for dealing extra damage while also protecting the party, but it on the verge of being a luxury feat. Mobile is awesome but is most definitely a luxury feat for Barbs in most cases.

[Rerem115]

I've always had a soft spot for Shield Master, to be honest. I know that you're sacrificing damage, but the increased AC, crowd control, and pseudo-Evasion can contribute to a solid wall of a character. It's definitely more of a "we-play" than a "me-play" character, but if you want to be the ultimate meat-shield, it's a great build.


*edited*
Also, it's total niche case, but if your DM is fond of Dominate effects, a Shield Master Barbarian is a lot less terrifying to go up against than one optimized for damage (I'm looking at you, VHuman PAM+GWM) :smalltongue:

[Man_Over_Game]

I've always had a soft spot for Shield Master, to be honest. I know that you're sacrificing damage, but the increased AC, crowd control, and pseudo-Evasion can contribute to a solid wall of a character. It's definitely more of a "we-play" than a "me-play" character, but if you want to be the ultimate meat-shield, it's a great build.


*edited*
Also, it's total niche case, but if your DM is fond of Dominate effects, a Shield Master Barbarian is a lot less terrifying to go up against than one optimized for damage (I'm looking at you, VHuman PAM+GWM) :smalltongue:

I agree. Barbarians are best at dealing with bosses compared to every other class in the game, and a lot of other classes can deal the pain well, so it kinda bugs me to see players neglect the defensive side of a melee fighter.

Shield Master:

Lets you use your Bonus Action to Shove
Improves your chance to make a Dexterity save
Lets you spend a reaction to cause a Dexterity save success to deal no damage or harmful effects.


Barbarians:

Have few ways of spending bonus actions
Have advantage on Strength checks (like Shove)
Have few ways of spending reactions
Have advantage on Dexterity saving throws


There is so much synergy here that the only reason you wouldn't want to take Shield Master is if you were just stupidly concerned about dealing as much damage as possible. The Shove isn't likely to benefit you much (as you have to attack before the shove) but it still gives you some much needed utility and makes you a better overall protector.

On top of that, since Rage adds a static bonus to STR based weapons, it has less of an impact with a heavy weapon than it does with a one-handed axe (unless you're going Berserker).

[Rerem115]

Actually, while the RAI was that you have to Shove after the attack, RAW and if I remember correctly, Sage Advice says that you can shove before you attack.

[Man_Over_Game]

Actually, while the RAI was that you have to Shove after the attack, RAW and if I remember correctly, Sage Advice says that you can shove before you attack.

Correct on the Sage Advice, but then the guy currently in charge of DnD (Jeremy Crawford) said (I think in a tweet) that an ability that requires a specific event must have that specific event occur before the ability-in-question can be used. So the required attack must occur before the possible bonus action shove.

[ciarannihill]

Correct on the Sage Advice, but then the guy currently in charge of DnD (Jeremy Crawford) said (I think in a tweet) that an ability that requires a specific event must have that specific event occur before the ability-in-question can be used. So the required attack must occur before the possible bonus action shove.

If "Action* B" cannot be performed normally, but can with the prerequisite of "Action A" having occurred, it makes sense that they happen sequentially. Think of it like "Action B" is locked behind a door, and "Action A" unlocks that door, it clearly requires a specific sequence. Breaking that sequence can allow for problems, though -- for example if by performing "Action B" prior to "Action A" a situation arises in which "Action A" is no longer possible (for example if doing so moves them into a terrain that renders them unconscious from damage) you run into rules issues. Not unsolvable ones, but ones that don't require a solution in the base game because of the sequential nature of the actions.

If you prefer to circumvent this because of "rule of cool" or any other justification that's fine, but that's what you're doing. This isn't Jeremy Crawford not understanding the rules he wrote or misleading you about them, this is you wanting to allow something outside of them because you like it better (which is fine and fair and please have fun doing so) -- I would advice you to take care to decide beforehand how you resolve scenarios like I mentioned previously to keep stuff consistent and so you don't run into weird headaches where you have to rewind something a character did because they wouldn't have been able to do it due to the results of it having been done.

*Action in the "do something" sense, not the "Action, Movement, Object Interaction, Bonus Action" sense.

[sophontteks]

Jeremy ruled specifically that push can be used before, so everyone accepted this for years. Then he recently reversed this as if it was never a thing, so, at this point everyone is doing it one way or another because Jeremy ruled both ways on the exact same thing. Not everyone reads twitter to know any different.

[GlenSmash!]

Compared to Fighters, Barbarians have less feats and have to be more selective as a result, especially if they want to max Str/Con. PAM, GWM, and Resilient (Wis) are important for optimization, but what about Mobile and Sentinel? Mobile synergizes well with the Eagle totem ability allowing flight as well as ensuring a PAM reaction attack each round--attacking and moving back 15 feet. Sentinel competes with PAM for a reaction and since the Barbarian will most likely be the main tank, it's not fully utilized compared to a Fighter or other melee character in the frontline next to a tank. Any feedback is appreciated.

Feat starvation is what drives most of my Barbs to be Variant Humans. Even then I try to think "What one feat will be the most fun to have for most of my adventuring career." Since I may not get a second one for a while.

I've done the GWM at level one Barbarian, and it's a lot of fun. I shy away from PAM since I mostly play in published adventures, and Cool Polearms seem few and far between in those, but its got the best action economy built right into it.

Sentinel is a really solid choice. It has a nice identity to it and good action economy, and is solidly useful on a Barb looking to protect his mates.+

Mobile is never a bad choice as I find extra movement on a Melee focused character is always useful. It also helps to breakway form guys you don't want around you so you can get to guys you do want to fight.

Lucky is also universally good.

My latest Barb started with 13 Wisdom, so I took resilient Wis to bump it and shore up a Barbarian weakness, I play him as an experienced Mercenary more cautions than your average frothing at the mouth Barb. Pretty fun so far, and nice to play something different.

Next I'm planning a grappler Barb, so Prodigy for Athletics expertise is where I'll start.

[Man_Over_Game]

If "Action* B" cannot be performed normally, but can with the prerequisite of "Action A" having occurred, it makes sense that they happen sequentially. Think of it like "Action B" is locked behind a door, and "Action A" unlocks that door, it clearly requires a specific sequence. Breaking that sequence can allow for problems, though -- for example if by performing "Action B" prior to "Action A" a situation arises in which "Action A" is no longer possible (for example if doing so moves them into a terrain that renders them unconscious from damage) you run into rules issues. Not unsolvable ones, but ones that don't require a solution in the base game because of the sequential nature of the actions.

If you prefer to circumvent this because of "rule of cool" or any other justification that's fine, but that's what you're doing. This isn't Jeremy Crawford not understanding the rules he wrote or misleading you about them, this is you wanting to allow something outside of them because you like it better (which is fine and fair and please have fun doing so) -- I would advice you to take care to decide beforehand how you resolve scenarios like I mentioned previously to keep stuff consistent and so you don't run into weird headaches where you have to rewind something a character did because they wouldn't have been able to do it due to the results of it having been done.

*Action in the "do something" sense, not the "Action, Movement, Object Interaction, Bonus Action" sense.

An example I can see is if the fight takes place somewhere where the floor is unstable and weak. Barbarian goes to attack and shove as per Shield Master, and does the shove first. Enemy is knocked prone, but the terrain causes the floor to fall out from underneath the target, causing him to fall to the next floor down. The barbarian cannot continue the combo with the attack, and technically illegally used his Shield Master feat.

However, I could see a DM rule that the Shield Master shove + attack combo is a practiced momentum-based string of maneuvers, and you carry out the events whether the target is there or not. In other words, you still attempt the following attack in the air, even if there's no target available.

If a player brought forward research that Shield Master was weaker than other feats, and needs the shove prior to the attack to stay competitive, I would allow this alternative at my table. As it is, though, I think Shield Master's fine, it's just that other feats (GWM, PAM) are a little too strong and cause everything else to be overlooked.

[CTurbo]

I REALLY like Ritual Caster on Barbarians to shore up a major weakness of not having much to do outside of combat.

Dual Wielder is another dark horse feat that's great on Barbs even without the TWF Style. You still get the bonus Rage damage from the off-hand attack.

[Man_Over_Game]

I REALLY like Ritual Caster on Barbarians to shore up a major weakness of not having much to do outside of combat.

Dual Wielder is another dark horse feat that's great on Barbs even without the TWF Style. You still get the bonus Rage damage from the off-hand attack.

The issue I see with that is the INT/WIS requirement on Ritual Caster, and while wisdom is the likely choice (going for druid or cleric, likely druid), most of the rituals you will ever find will likely be Wizard. What other classes have a reason to write down spells, if not to give them away?

[CTurbo]

The issue I see with that is the INT/WIS requirement on Ritual Caster, and while wisdom is the likely choice (going for druid or cleric, likely druid), most of the rituals you will ever find will likely be Wizard. What other classes have a reason to write down spells, if not to give them away?


As I see it, you only need Wis 13 to qualify for the feat. You can still choose Wizard as your choice regardless of your Int score. How many rituals actually rely on your casting score anyway?

[Ganymede]

My current barbarian puts the Athlete feat to good use.

[NorthernPhoenix]

I think most people overvalue the stat increase. The game generally isn't balanced in such a way that you'll "suck" without max anything. STR 16 can be perfectly fine for a very long time, thanks to the way bounded accuracy (and the barbarian mechanics themselves!) Support this. Don't be afraid to branch out!