Feat: Lucky Vs. Magic Initiate

[NockSchlockJock]

Hi Y'all, hoping to get some opinions from the playgrounders on my feat choice.

Background: Currently playing a Ranger 3 (UE Revised Ranger Beastmaster) / Rogue 3 (Assassin) for a homebrew story in the D&Dverse. After our last encounter we accrued enough XP to reach level 7 (Leveling Ranger first, although each 4th character class level granting the feat/ASI) & I have the decision of Lucky Vs. Magic Initiate.

From most of my reading on here, all guides seem to rate the Lucky feat as a high priority, but the additional spells & access to cantrips is also a desirable feat.

Can anyone with some in game experience of running a character with either of these feats offer their perspective on how they were pleased/displeased with either path?

I may end up sinking both feats into the character over the next two levels, but would appreciate any opinions.

Thanks in advance!

[Angelalex242]

Pick Alert first. Assassins LOVE alert.

Then go Lucky.

[JDanton]

Lucky is never an essential feat, just a really powerful one, giving you three rerolls a day can be big and if used strategically can turn a whole encounter on its head. The only issue with luck is that it is kind of boring despite its versatility and power and some players view it as being too OP and in some cases they may be right. Since you're using a fairly powerful multiclass you can definitely do without luck but it would definitely still be of benefit. Magic initiate is a fine feat for a ranger, if not just for find familiar, but since you're a beast master and are multiclassing rogue I assume you're going more for a martial ranger than a caster which makes magic initiate kind of redundant. There are probably some better feats to take but that depends what sort of fighting/playstyle you're looking for, if no you can never go wrong with luck (although your GM may hate you for it).

[NockSchlockJock]

Pick Alert first. Assassins LOVE alert.

Then go Lucky.

This is also another option, Dex is my main stat usually meaning I tend to be high in the pecking order but the initiative bonus is an enabler for the assassin abilities.


Lucky is never an essential feat, just a really powerful one, giving you three rerolls a day can be big and if used strategically can turn a whole encounter on its head. The only issue with luck is that it is kind of boring despite its versatility and power and some players view it as being too OP and in some cases they may be right. Since you're using a fairly powerful multiclass you can definitely do without luck but it would definitely still be of benefit. Magic initiate is a fine feat for a ranger, if not just for find familiar, but since you're a beast master and are multiclassing rogue I assume you're going more for a martial ranger than a caster which makes magic initiate kind of redundant. There are probably some better feats to take but that depends what sort of fighting/playstyle you're looking for, if no you can never go wrong with luck (although your GM may hate you for it).

We operate a small group (3 PC's) so the multiclassing was mainly for damage bonus & versatility (Currently archer fighting style so ranged/closeup as an option). I'm thinking of it more as an additional option, but then run the risk of going down the Jack of all, master of none rabbit hole where i'm not effective either way.

The GM already hates us for taking his delightful plot & bending it to our whims, but he's a decent enough chap :)

[JDanton]

I'd consider Alert, crossbow expert (if you want to use crossbows), Dungeon Delver, sharpshooter or skulker, they all work quite well with archery rangers/rogues and are a lot more fun and interesting than lucky, although lucky is probably still more powerful. Also if you don't want to be a jack of all trades but want to stay as a ranger/rogue consider taking the gloom stalker conclave and go for a full ambush and assassination build, then just take alert or sharpshooter, you're initiative and first turn damage will be insane.

[Galadhrim]

Hi Y'all, hoping to get some opinions from the playgrounders on my feat choice.

Background: Currently playing a Ranger 3 (UE Revised Ranger Beastmaster) / Rogue 3 (Assassin) for a homebrew story in the D&Dverse. After our last encounter we accrued enough XP to reach level 7 (Leveling Ranger first, although each 4th character class level granting the feat/ASI) & I have the decision of Lucky Vs. Magic Initiate.

From most of my reading on here, all guides seem to rate the Lucky feat as a high priority, but the additional spells & access to cantrips is also a desirable feat.

Can anyone with some in game experience of running a character with either of these feats offer their perspective on how they were pleased/displeased with either path?

I may end up sinking both feats into the character over the next two levels, but would appreciate any opinions.

Thanks in advance!

What are you looking to get out of magic initiate? Obviously there are tons of options for cantrips and first level spells. I think that would help in giving advice.

[Aett_Thorn]

Lucky generally makes you better at what you can already do.

Magic Initiate gives you new things to do.

Which one sounds more fun to you?

[Rerem115]

In my mind, Lucky doesn't really make you better at the things you do; it doesn't lift the ceiling of your abilities, it just raises the floor 3 times a day.

[NockSchlockJock]

I'd consider Alert, crossbow expert (if you want to use crossbows), Dungeon Delver, sharpshooter or skulker, they all work quite well with archery rangers/rogues and are a lot more fun and interesting than lucky, although lucky is probably still more powerful. Also if you don't want to be a jack of all trades but want to stay as a ranger/rogue consider taking the gloom stalker conclave and go for a full ambush and assassination build, then just take alert or sharpshooter, you're initiative and first turn damage will be insane.

Thank you for this, Alert & Sharpshooter seem to both be attractive options.


What are you looking to get out of magic initiate? Obviously there are tons of options for cantrips and first level spells. I think that would help in giving advice.

Either the Cleric or Warlock spells (Cleric for healing utility, Warlock for Damage) are my considerations, Cha being my dump stat does somewhat hamper the Warlock option.


Lucky generally makes you better at what you can already do.
Magic Initiate gives you new things to do.
Which one sounds more fun to you?

Honestly? I'm not sure, hence my indicision. Lucky allows for more leway in a survivalist sense (i figure most of these points would be spent at a DC low roll) but also think having more in the toolkit is potentially a better option.


In my mind, Lucky doesn't really make you better at the things you do; it doesn't lift the ceiling of your abilities, it just raises the floor 3 times a day.

Thats a decent summary, portable skills step ladder of three uses

[Galadhrim]

My experience with Lucky was that I was willing to attempt more audacious actions because I was

1. more reasonably sure I would succeed
2. did not have to worry about rolling a 1 and ending up really hurting myself or my teammates.

In that sense, I did not find it to be a boring pick at all.

[Willie the Duck]

From most of my reading on here, all guides seem to rate the Lucky feat as a high priority, but the additional spells & access to cantrips is also a desirable feat.

I consider Lucky to be the reverse of high priority. It is good for anyone who has an ASI to spare, but it is mandatory for no one, and you pick it up when convenient. The people who most need it are those with the worst saves, since despite this edition having lowered the amount of save-or-totally-screwed effects, if there is one thing you would most want re-rolled, it is a failed save. A Ranger has fairly decent saves, in that they tend to focus on Dex, Con, and Wis more than Str, Int, and Cha.

Magic Initiate is kind of the opposite of the generalist nature of Lucky. Naturally, it is better to have it than not have it (were it free), but it is worth the opportunity cost of the ASI spent if and only if you have a particular reason to want it. Are you a human and your low-light seeing party members don't bother with lanterns or Light spells (and, as a bow user, you don't have a free hand to hold the lantern yourself)? Pick it up. Are you a skill-monkey conceptually, but (given that rangers don't get expertise and you are halving your rogue progression) you just don't hit the target numbers? Grab Guidance. Are you using Sharpshooter but the -5 is killing your hit ratio? Grab Bless. Are you a melee only...well, we already know that's not the case, but for the next character, MI is a great way for a melee martial with a better Int/Wis than Dex to pick up a ranged option.


Either the Cleric or Warlock spells (Cleric for healing utility, Warlock for Damage) are my considerations, Cha being my dump stat does somewhat hamper the Warlock option.

Neither of these are actually well served in this situation. A cleric can pick up Spare the Dying as a cantrip (replacing a healer's kit or Medicine skill check, but not actually increasing hp healed), and Cure Wounds for 1d8+wis 1/LR. You would be better served with the Healer feat (which, btw, is awesome. Consider it). If you had a high Charisma (which you don't) and needed a ranged attack (which you don't) you could pick up Eldritch Blast, but without high Cha and invocations (which require a 2-level Warlock dip, not MI) it doesn't outpace a bow. Beyond that, you could get Hex 1/LR which... differs from Hunter's Mark in the specifics, but not in the damage added (and competes for your concentration, regardless).

I am going to say, if it is truly between these two, pick Lucky, only because one should really pick MI because it does something specific for you, and it won't do for you what you specifically want from it. I think you might find it disappointing.


(Leveling Ranger first, although each 4th character class level granting the feat/ASI)

We operate a small group (3 PC's) so the multiclassing was mainly for damage bonus & versatility (Currently archer fighting style so ranged/closeup as an option).

Unsolicited advice: get up to ranger 5 before grabbing the rogue 4 level/ASI. Multiattack is one of the biggest and certainly the most on/off damage-add to gain.

[Cynthaer]

My experience with Lucky was that I was willing to attempt more audacious actions because I was

1. more reasonably sure I would succeed
2. did not have to worry about rolling a 1 and ending up really hurting myself or my teammates.

In that sense, I did not find it to be a boring pick at all.
I really like the feat because I think the execution is thematically appropriate.

The feat is called Lucky. If you have the kind of character where it would be interesting for them to be kind of lucky, then it's going to be an interesting feat. It (A) rewards behaving like someone who knows they're lucky, and (B) gives lots of clear opportunities to roleplay/narrate the effects of luck if you like that kind of thing.

If "this character is particularly lucky" doesn't sound interesting for the character concept (or doesn't interest you as a player), then obviously it's not going to be an interesting feat because you're taking the mechanical effect and throwing out the rest. I'm not saying you can't do that, just that it's not surprising for a feat to feel abstract and sterile when that's specifically how you're using it.

[mephnick]

Re-rolls bog the game down and Lucky ruins the dramatic tension of every aspect of the game, so I'd choose something cooler, like Alert or Magic Initiate.

[Galadhrim]

Re-rolls bog the game down and Lucky ruins the dramatic tension of every aspect of the game, so I'd choose something cooler, like Alert or Magic Initiate.

We found neither of those to be true when in use at our table.

[Keravath]

I'd say Alert or Sharpshooter might be your best first picks. Alert makes you immune to surprise and increases the likelihood of using your first round assassin bonuses. On the other hand sharpshooter will give you an amazing 600' normal range for a longbow (ignore long range disadvantage with range weapons), ignore 1/2 and 3/4 cover ... so hitting someone peeking out from behind a wall or involved in melee is easier, and allows for the -5/+10 option when you have multi-attack against easy targets ... however, the -5/+10 is much less desirable if you focus on rogue since landing the sneak attack damage is usually more desirable than the decreased chance of landing the +10. (By the way, I would probably level the ranger to 5 for extra attack before leveling the rogue to 4).

On the topic of Lucky .. it is a decent feat but I think that how many people see it is affected by perception bias.

Lucky lets you roll another d20 on three rolls/long rest ... essentially allowing free advantage (and turning advantage or disadvantage to a triple dice choice). It is very useful to dodge a critical hit from an opponent. It is very useful to get a second chance to make an important saving throw.

However, I've watched characters with Lucky use up their Luck points and fail all the re-rolls. It just offers a second chance, there are no guarantees. I think what tends to happen is that folks see it in use and then particularly remember the times it works rather than the many times it does nothing.

Since it is often used at critical moments, the times it works become very memorable ... and there is no denying that getting a second chance to save against that disintegrate spell can be very useful ... but if the DC is 17 and your save requires a 14 then even with a second roll from Lucky you are still probably going to fail.

On the other hand, feats like Sharpshooter, Alert and others provide tangible and ongoing benefits in each encounter. So .. if you have a free feat slot then by all means take Lucky ... it is great to have a bit of a safety net. However, if you have feats that you want that will immediately improve your build I'd go for those first.


Personally, I only have one character with the Lucky feat ... and in that case it is because he is the trap finding and disabling rogue in the party (also has the observant feat) .. so in his case .. Lucky is a bit of an insurance policy for saving throws (since he isn't proficient in either con or wis saving throws) failed attempts to disable traps, and a defence against critical hits.

[JDanton]

Re-rolls bog the game down and Lucky ruins the dramatic tension of every aspect of the game, so I'd choose something cooler, like Alert or Magic Initiate.

Rerolls don't have to bog down the game as long as you don't hesitate to use them to much and I'd argue that they can actually enhance dramatic moments by turning potential failure into a heroic success it just depends when or how its applied but I do see where you are coming from and there are way better feats.

[Dalebert]

The point of Magic Initiate IMHO is to fill in a specific niche for your character. I would never give it serious consideration unless there were a particular cantrip or 1st level spell that was either mechanically synergistic with my build or particularly flavorful for my character but was otherwise inaccessible. Otherwise it's a pretty weak feat. For instance, I could see taking it if you wanted a story hook to tie you in to a particular NPC of sorcerous bloodline, like evidence that you share their bloodline and are related that might come up in the game and make for a great story-telling moment.

[JeffreyGator]

What spells are you planning with magic initiate?

As a revised ranger beast master BB/GFB is more useful since you sacrifice a beast attack rather than your own extra attack @ level 5.

Find Familiar is also pretty cool to round out the collection of beasts.


(some second utility cantrip)

[Desteplo]

Almost all my characters have magic initiate. I like cantrips and that spell adds vesatility
(In your case, mage armor is usually +3 AC non concentration 8hr protection for your companion.)

[Corran]

Lucky is a great feat generally, and IME it is one of the best picks for assassins! This is because assassins have extra ways to utilize the extra rolls and that makes these extra rolls more of a part of your arsenal than a secondary defense.

To pull of an assassination, you need a lot of things to go your way. Some of these things include rolling:
1) Stealth or deception check(s).
2) Initiative
3) Attack rolls (you have advantage, but still...)

Lucky helps all 3 of the above, and in addition it has all other normal uses it has for non-assassins.

[CTurbo]

Lucky is one of those feats that's awesome on every character but also tends to be a really low priority. IMO, it a last pick feat that you take at level 16 or 19 if you have nothing better to take.

Magic Initiate is a great feat as is Ritual Caster. They open up new doors. I would give either a much higher priority or Lucky.

Alert is AWESOME for Assassins. I would certainly take it over Lucky.