Weird Game Setup (probably not doable without a lot of changes)...

[GrayDeath]

.....Well, a friend gave us his setup for a game he intends to run.

Now this friend often comes up with weird, sometimes in a good way, ideas, but more often than not they show to be not really doable or he abandons them when they seem too much work.

Hence I thought I`d field this one to the Playground:

System is Pathfinder, with all nonbroken 3.5 prestige Classes in. No generic Classes, no Racial paragon Classes.

The Setup is thus: All Characters can have one Base Class (full casters are out of that pool^^), all other levels have to be Prestige Classes. Multiples, to be exact.

Detailed Limits: at most 5 levels in any one base class. Expanded by at least 2 (ideally 3, 4 are allowed, 5 are not) Prestige Classes.

Hard requirements (BAB, Skill Ranks) have to be fully followed, Feat Requirements only if the feats themselves are not trash (example: if the dodge tree is needed, it counts as ONE feat, or if you need Toughness, Die Hard and Great Fortitude, you must hVE ONE9:

Fluff Requirements must be followed if CLEAR (ergo "Must follow this God" or "Cannot be of that class" or something) and otherwise can be argued RAIwise.

Early Entry hijinx that are ... RAW only are out, those that can logically be argued to "make sense" in World are allowed (for Example no finagling with Earth and Sanctum Spell, or similar, to get "Able to cast 3rd Level Spells" at Level 1).


World is Eberron.

Stats are PF Pointbuy 32pts. Starting Level is 7. WBL is half, but everyone gets a free +3 Tome for one attribute. One free Template (PF or 3.5) of +1 or less LA (if less than +1 one free feat of choice is granted) is allowed and considered payed off.


Can this work for a full party of 5 until Level 20? If not, why not? If yes, please suggest 5 builds for a workable and not "laughable" group!

Thank you all!

[tyckspoon]

Should be workable, most of the classic 3.5 builds look more or less like that - the main difficulty is not dipping base classes. Casters don't really have any kind of problem with that, but martial/noncasting builds often want to have two or three base classes as their lead into prestiges - skill-centric characters often want to take a couple of more martial levels for weapon proficiencies/BAB/HD/saves, full BAB builds might want a couple extra feats so they swing through Fighter for a bit, etc. It sounds like you're also maybe intending some minimum amount of levels taken in the prestige classes, so you might have a problem with, for example, the Bard/Virtuoso/Sublime Chord build where Virtuoso is just taken for one or two levels to smooth out the progression into Sublime Chord?

Mixed concepts probably suffer the most; a traditional 3.5 gish build or an Arcane Trickster/Unseen Seer would be difficult to make under these rules. Pathfinder ameliorates that some, since there are better mixed base classes available to use there, but then chances are they'd want to continue with that base class and would have trouble finding prestige classes that suited their progression plans.

[Goaty14]

Should be workable, most of the classic 3.5 builds look more or less like that

This. With 3.5 stuff in, you should be relatively fine. The bigger question is if the DM will let the party run around without full-casters and not stopping at some point like "wait, why can't you just teleport there? Oh, I, ohhhh" and then quit the idea.

[GrayDeath]

Well.....I have no Idea honestly. We aren`t that far, obviously.

But even non full casters can get enough Magic to do well, and Buy Teleportation or somesuch, no?

So, 2 opinions towards workable but not easy. Thanks.

Still, keep em coming (mayhap with some build ideas?^^)!

[GrayDeath]

Small Info bit updated: Every Character will get a 3 times/Day healing SLA that upgrades with HD to avoid Death without CLeric as he put it.

Otherwise see above.

I would really like to see some interesting and workable builds.....:)

[Kayblis]

A group without a Cleric can just but a Wand of Lesser Vigor for 750gp, it has 50 charges and heals 11 HP a pop. It takes 11 turns of 1 HP heal each, so it's out-of-combat only, but healing mid-combat isn't very good anyways. Carry a Wand of CLW on lower levels if that is a problem.

The original idea, it's fine really. Most people won't notice a difference other than being able to use decent PrCs without needing 3 trash feats, and that's a good thing. Martials lose more than casters by not being able to pick a level in Barbarian or Fighter to round up their characters, but you're banning full casters from the get-go so everyone's boned equally. Just remember that a group without full casters is like a bycicle compared to a car - it works and can take you places, but it's much more fragile and shaky. As levels progress, they'll have difficulty with simple monsters of appropriate CR. It's completely doable though.

[Andor13]

Wait, Pathfinder with 3.5 prestige classes? Huh. That's odd.

But in that setup I'd take a Shifter (stop laughing, you'll see) and the prestige into Warshaper and Master of Many forms. By the time you finish those two you're at 18th level and I wouldn't worry about the campaign going that far, honestly.

[Menzath]

Question, how does said dm feel about quick progression prestige classes, like ur priest and sublime chord?

[ExLibrisMortis]

This, uh, just feels really convoluted and pointless. A lot of very specific requirements to no specific point.



at most 5 levels in any one base class. Expanded by at least 2 (ideally 3, 4 are allowed, 5 are not) Prestige Classes.
So, uh, why not five prestige classes?


Fluff Requirements must be followed if CLEAR (ergo "Must follow this God" [...] World is Eberron.
Okay, Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms prestige classes (with deity requirements) are out.


Early Entry hijinx that are ... RAW only are out, those that can logically be argued to "make sense" in World are allowed (for Example no finagling with Earth and Sanctum Spell, or similar, to get "Able to cast 3rd Level Spells" at Level 1).
Earth Sense and Earth Spell are totally sensible in-world. You're drawing power from the earth to produce a more powerful spell effect. I think you're confusing game balance--for which it makes no sense to produce third-level effects (spell level being much less unbalancing) at level 1--with fluff--for which it makes perfect sense that you can (sometimes) go past your usual limits.


WBL is half, but everyone gets a free +3 Tome for one attribute.
Those tomes are 82 500 gp each, almost 12th-level WBL, but they're not worth using until much higher levels. At 7th level, +4 stat boosters are still expensive (16 000 gp cost with 19 000 gp WBL), and having that +3 tome for only 9500 gp is probably an advantage, but at higher levels, the utility of an expensive +3 ability bonus falls off quickly. This just seems like a convoluted way to (slightly) front-load WBL.


Overall, I wouldn't play in this game. I think the restrictions were chosen because they sound decisive and impactful, whereas I think they aren't, and really don't achieve anything interesting.