Arcane Trickster/Sorcerer AL

[PeteNutButter]

For my next AL character I'm looking to make a Rogue/Sorcerer. Here is the plan:

8, 16, 14, 10, 8, 16
Human Variant

The basic strategy is to quicken BB and then ready BB for double Sneak attack. Eventually I'll get sorcerer 5 and have Haste attack and ready BB. It's not the best action economy, since readying is essentially two for one against yourself as you use your action and a reaction to get one attack, but if you have enough sneak attack dice it might be worth it. The big problem is that leaves the character open to enemy attacks, without the option to cast shield or use uncanny dodge.

Here are my considerations, and I'd like to get folks' input on this:

Feat:
Since you can now buy any +x weapon, I was considering Spell Sniper with BB and a whip. I was already planning to start with sorcerer (for con save prof) so the prereq is met at level 1. It could fix some of the character's issues as he'd be less likely to get attacked if he were 10 feet away. I'd lose out on 2 damage per attack though compared to a rapier, and the effect is wasted on enemies with reach. Warcaster would be another good choice if I want to haste a lot. I'll spend my subsequent ASIs on dex until capped and then maybe cha.

Subclasses:
I'm pretty sure AT is the best way to go, since I'll be using my spell points like crazy, as long as there is a melee ally nearby so I can SA. Swashbuckler is tempting since I'll have a high cha, but in the end it's probably not as strong. I can use a familiar to get SA fairly regularly once per round anyways. I wouldn't bother doing the whole ready thing, unless there is another ally nearby to get my SA.

For the sorcerer side, draconic is probably best for the free "mage armor," but I'm tempted to go wild mage if I can convince the local DMs to let me surge often. It wouldn't be until high level, but the idea of wild surging a fireball on top of myself and then taking no damage due to evasion is pretty rad. Shadow and divine soul are off limits as I'll be using SCAG as my +1 for BB. Sadly that means no shadow blade either.

Level Order:
As mentioned, sorcerer 1 is probably a must for con saves. I'll get one less skill compared to starting rogue and rely on my high dex for dex saves. After that, I'm impatient so rogue 1 is where I'll go. From there, I'm not sure. I'm considering rushing either one to level 5. As I mentioned above uncanny dodge isn't as high a value target with me using my reactions (so maybe don't rush rogue), but the whole readying sneak attacks doesn't do all that much when I've got only 1d6 sneak attack(...so maybe don't rush sorcerer). Either way the build won't feel great until maybe level 8 or 9, and I accept that going in.

Any input is appreciated.

[Joe the Rat]

What are you planning to use for your default trigger on the readied BB?

You can always drop your readied action to react (shield, uncanny dodge).

Fastest way to get this schtick online is Sorc3/Rog3(AT) - 3 sorcery points and the spell slots of a 4th level caster. Your maximum uses in a day is 13, less actual spells cast or other metamagics used. Assuming a standard AL game, you can probably throw these just about every round in a fight encounter, then recharge SP in between. Your resource pool and chance to actually be a sorcerer will grow from there. The irony is the more juice you have from sorcerer, the less relevant the sneak attack aspect becomes, as you can do a hell of a lot more damage using spell slots.

Starting Sorc is probably the best approach, but you'll need to decide on how much you want to be sorcerer vs. magic rogue: 1 and 1 gets magic and stabbing online fast, then you can layer in what you need (more SA, or the sorcerer tricks). Since you need to melee, even with whip reach (once you find a way to get whip) you may want to favor Dragonblooded - the AC is nice (free better-than-studded), but the extra hit point is what keeps you on a steady 5+CON per level progression.

[ATHATH]

Since this is AL and online trading is a thing, you could go straight Rogue 20 (or Rogue 1/Hexblade 3/Rogue 16 for Darkness+Devil's Sight) and grab a Scimitar of Speed to get those extra attacks without sacrificing your SA damage.

[PeteNutButter]

What are you planning to use for your default trigger on the readied BB?

You can always drop your readied action to react (shield, uncanny dodge).

Fastest way to get this schtick online is Sorc3/Rog3(AT) - 3 sorcery points and the spell slots of a 4th level caster. Your maximum uses in a day is 13, less actual spells cast or other metamagics used. Assuming a standard AL game, you can probably throw these just about every round in a fight encounter, then recharge SP in between. Your resource pool and chance to actually be a sorcerer will grow from there. The irony is the more juice you have from sorcerer, the less relevant the sneak attack aspect becomes, as you can do a hell of a lot more damage using spell slots.

Starting Sorc is probably the best approach, but you'll need to decide on how much you want to be sorcerer vs. magic rogue: 1 and 1 gets magic and stabbing online fast, then you can layer in what you need (more SA, or the sorcerer tricks). Since you need to melee, even with whip reach (once you find a way to get whip) you may want to favor Dragonblooded - the AC is nice (free better-than-studded), but the extra hit point is what keeps you on a steady 5+CON per level progression.

Yeah I totally forgot rogues don't get whips to start. That means either picking up a feat or a fighter level, seems like more than it's worth.


Since this is AL and online trading is a thing, you could go straight Rogue 20 (or Rogue 1/Hexblade 3/Rogue 16 for Darkness+Devil's Sight) and grab a Scimitar of Speed to get those extra attacks without sacrificing your SA damage.

I'd rather not have to wait until tier 3 to get it going though. Besides, I should have made it clear that the point of the build is to play a rogue/sorcerer. The readied action thing is just the best I could come up with using these two classes.

[Citan]

For my next AL character I'm looking to make a Rogue/Sorcerer. Here is the plan:

8, 16, 14, 10, 8, 16
Human Variant

The basic strategy is to quicken BB and then ready BB for double Sneak attack. Eventually I'll get sorcerer 5 and have Haste attack and ready BB. 3. It's not the best action economy, since readying is essentially two for one against yourself as you use your action and a reaction to get one attack, but if you have enough sneak attack dice it might be worth it. The big problem is that leaves the character open to enemy attacks, without the option to cast shield or use uncanny dodge.


Subclasses:
I'm pretty sure AT is the best way to go, since I'll be using my spell 1. points like crazy, as long as there is a melee ally nearby so I can SA. Swashbuckler is tempting since I'll have a high cha, but in the end it's probably not as strong. I can use a familiar to get SA fairly regularly once per round anyways. I wouldn't bother doing the whole ready thing, unless there is another ally nearby to get my SA.

2. For the sorcerer side, draconic is probably best for the free "mage armor," but I'm tempted to go wild mage if I can convince the local DMs to let me surge often. It wouldn't be until high level, but the idea of wild surging a fireball on top of myself and then taking no damage due to evasion is pretty rad. Shadow and divine soul are off limits as I'll be using SCAG as my +1 for BB. Sadly that means no shadow blade either.

Any input is appreciated.
Hey ;)
Few bits (note I make them in "disorder").

1. Well, considering you're an ancient here, I suppose you know what you're doing... I still worry a bit when seeing that though. ^^ SP will be a scarce resource for a very long time, and could be used on powerful spells instead. Anyways.

2. Actually, the best for you, provided you are smart and communicative enough to make it an asset for party, instead of a bother, Shadow Sorcerer would be by far the best choice.
Draconic AC is equal to Mage Armor, which is itself just one point better than best light armor. No big deal.
Meanwhile, Sorcerer nets you an "avoid death" feature 1/long, more importantly give you "Darkness which you can see through".
Which is an easy and reliable way to generate advantage for your Sneak Attack, whether there is an ally close by or not.
And provided you reach high enough level for that, Shadow Hound will make you much better at inflicting debuffs AND motivating your target to move in spite of a Booming Blade as a consequence. ^^

3. Actually, what you say here is much better than the Quicken BB + Ready BB. MUCH better.
Instead of using 2 SP every turn, you spend the equivalent of 5 for the whole fight. Note though, which is kinda a big deal, that it also means you'll expose yourself to threats for whole rounds. With much increased risk to lose Haste at a bad time as a consequence.
So keep this in mind when you decide whether to fall back or stick to enemies. :)
Also, if you planned on getting Warcaster somewhere, it also means you don't care about Haste for Ready anymore. Unless your DM agreed that the Ready action could include movement, in which case it's still better by a large margin (like "I go smack this one with Booming Blade as soon as it makes a move").

[PeteNutButter]

Hey ;)
Few bits (note I make them in "disorder").

1. Well, considering you're an ancient here, I suppose you know what you're doing... I still worry a bit when seeing that though. ^^ SP will be a scarce resource for a very long time, and could be used on powerful spells instead. Anyways.

2. Actually, the best for you, provided you are smart and communicative enough to make it an asset for party, instead of a bother, Shadow Sorcerer would be by far the best choice.
Draconic AC is equal to Mage Armor, which is itself just one point better than best light armor. No big deal.
Meanwhile, Sorcerer nets you an "avoid death" feature 1/long, more importantly give you "Darkness which you can see through".
Which is an easy and reliable way to generate advantage for your Sneak Attack, whether there is an ally close by or not.
And provided you reach high enough level for that, Shadow Hound will make you much better at inflicting debuffs AND motivating your target to move in spite of a Booming Blade as a consequence. ^^

3. Actually, what you say here is much better than the Quicken BB + Ready BB. MUCH better.
Instead of using 2 SP every turn, you spend the equivalent of 5 for the whole fight. Note though, which is kinda a big deal, that it also means you'll expose yourself to threats for whole rounds. With much increased risk to lose Haste at a bad time as a consequence.
So keep this in mind when you decide whether to fall back or stick to enemies. :)
Also, if you planned on getting Warcaster somewhere, it also means you don't care about Haste for Ready anymore. Unless your DM agreed that the Ready action could include movement, in which case it's still better by a large margin (like "I go smack this one with Booming Blade as soon as it makes a move").

1. It's not at all optimal and I get that, but it fits the fluff I'm going for.

2. Can't mix shadow sorcerer and BB in AL sadly. That darn +1 rule.

3. Haste is definitely optimal.

So I played the character like this today (that's why I'm posting again). I went with Rogue 1/Sorcerer 3. I obviously had to forgo the whip idea.

Dealing 1d8+1d6+3 twice a round just on the first round of combat was barely more damage than the extra 1d6 sneak attack would do over a few rounds. It had its advantages though. I was able to front load damage a fair bit, and even hit multiple foes. The real benefit of the build was what sorcerer actually gave me. I used invisibility along with my expertise in stealth to easily scout the entire "dungeon" as well as using it to do less than legal activities pretty easily. Since there were no other arcane casters, no one else could have done it.

To sum up, I think the whole quicken BB, ready BB strategy isn't really a thing to design a character around, but more like a way to mitigate the loss of damage you suffer from having less rogue levels. I want to play a rogue, but I need more spell casting in my characters. AT just doesn't give enough. This BB strategy can help mitigate my damage loss for what will ultimately probably be just 6 sorcerer levels. One of the coolest things about the build is it gets subtle spell, which the AT distinctively lacks.

I just hit level 5 so I have to lock in the character before the next session. I'm thinking Rogue (AT) 4/Sorcerer 1. I'm going to go wild mage since the DM said I'd surge every time I cast a leveled spell with Tides of Chaos down. Besides, the AC from Draconic matches +1 Studded which is auto-available now in AL (the extra hp per level will still be missed). I can use some DM quests to give him a couple rare items to shore up weaknesses. I'm thinking 1) a cloak of displacement and 2) some kind of weapon. Sunblade is tempting, but it'd be hard to surprise with it.

Stats will probably be 8, 16, 14, 10, 8, 16. Wisdom would be better than int, but its fluff that the character has dumped wisdom.

I just need to lock in the feat. Might want Warcaster for that eventual haste, maybe just Sentinel (way better than BB junk). Foes might not want to attack me with a cloak of displacement.

[LtPowers]

I obviously had to forgo the whip idea.

That's okay, because the range on booming blade (and green flame blade and sword burst, for that matter) is explicitly 5 feet. Using that cantrip with a whip doesn't gain you any benefit compared to using any other melee weapon.


Powers &8^]

[PeteNutButter]

That's okay, because the range on booming blade (and green flame blade and sword burst, for that matter) is explicitly 5 feet. Using that cantrip with a whip doesn't gain you any benefit compared to using any other melee weapon.


Powers &8^]

It works combined with spell sniper.

[Citan]

Dealing 1d8+1d6+3 twice a round just on the first round of combat was barely more damage than the extra 1d6 sneak attack would do over a few rounds. It had its advantages though. I was able to front load damage a fair bit, and even hit multiple foes. The real benefit of the build was what sorcerer actually gave me. I used invisibility along with my expertise in stealth to easily scout the entire "dungeon" as well as using it to do less than legal activities pretty easily. Since there were no other arcane casters, no one else could have done it.

To sum up, I think the whole quicken BB, ready BB strategy isn't really a thing to design a character around, but more like a way to mitigate the loss of damage you suffer from having less rogue levels. I want to play a rogue, but I need more spell casting in my characters. AT just doesn't give enough. This BB strategy can help mitigate my damage loss for what will ultimately probably be just 6 sorcerer levels. One of the coolest things about the build is it gets subtle spell, which the AT distinctively lacks.

I just hit level 5 so I have to lock in the character before the next session. I'm thinking Rogue (AT) 4/Sorcerer 1. I'm going to go wild mage since the DM said I'd surge every time I cast a leveled spell with Tides of Chaos down. Besides, the AC from Draconic matches +1 Studded which is auto-available now in AL (the extra hp per level will still be missed). I can use some DM quests to give him a couple rare items to shore up weaknesses. I'm thinking 1) a cloak of displacement and 2) some kind of weapon. Sunblade is tempting, but it'd be hard to surprise with it.

Stats will probably be 8, 16, 14, 10, 8, 16. Wisdom would be better than int, but its fluff that the character has dumped wisdom.

I just need to lock in the feat. Might want Warcaster for that eventual haste, maybe just Sentinel (way better than BB junk). Foes might not want to attack me with a cloak of displacement.
Hey ;) Thanks for providing post-session feedback, it's always nice to have.

So...
1. I'm (very egoistically, megalomaniacally even) glad your feedback backs my usual posture on Quicken BB nova for low-level characters. :smallbiggrin:

2. I'll agree and disagree at the same time on this one.
Yeah, obviously AT won't give you as much in terms of spell selection and slots, especially since you boosted CHA over INT for Sorcerer.
But considering how you targeted Subtle as a tool of your trade, and considering how you seem to like scouting and scouring in invisibility...

I'd urge you to project yourself as an Arcane Trickster 9 / Sorcerer X.
Expertise in Stealth + Magical Ambush + Subtle Metamagic + any level 2/3 AOE Sorcerer spell = MVPing fights.
Of course, you still need to have some kind of spell suiting the situation...
And it's a long road up to there, which means you'll probably be stuck as Sorcerer 3-4-5 for your whole life (or at least a veeery long time).
But this particular build really has the potential to make your DM cry, whether in combat situation or not. :)