Bard/warlock character, advice welcome

[Chaosticket]

I really want to play total magic in Dungeons and Dragons sessions, but it doesnt seem like I can make a support spellcaster like a Pure Lore Bard work in 5e. I think I have to make a Blaster.

I dont know if there is a perfect blaster build.

A Bard 2/Warlock 2 multiclass is what Im trying right now. I know Im going to have so many penalties. I dont know how long the campaign Im in is going for so I dont know if a either class to level 20. Bard is better skill and support, warlock is better blaster. Should I give up on one class now?

[n00b]

I really want to play total magic in Dungeons and Dragons sessions, but it doesnt seem like I can make a support spellcaster like a Pure Lore Bard work in 5e. I think I have to make a Blaster.

I dont know if there is a perfect blaster build.

A Bard 2/Warlock 2 multiclass is what Im trying right now. I know Im going to have so many penalties. I dont know how long the campaign Im in is going for so I dont know if a either class to level 20. Bard is better skill and support, warlock is better blaster. Should I give up on one class now?

I think most will agree that Warlock 2/Sorcerer 3+ is a really good and arguably one of the best blasters. Quickened Eldritch Blasts do a lot of damage.

[MilkmanDanimal]

Warlock and Bard is a great combination; if you want to be a blaster, Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast + Hex means you have at-will very solid ranged damage, and Bard will give you skills and loads of support spells. Going Sorcerer instead of Bard will make you a better blaster, but going Bard means you get blasting + all the general utility a Bard gives you. I'm playing this character now, and he's basically built to throw Eldritch Blast in combat, and be good at all sorts of stuff out of combat as the party face + expertise in extra skills.

[Chaosticket]

Eldritch Blast is maybe the best possible Blaster spell. 1d10 damage isnt much, but gaining multiple attack attacks rather than more damage on one single attack means the benefits are multiplied. Agonizing Blast can give 4 times as much damage, Repelling Blast can give up 40 feet of knockback, 4 times as many chances to hit, critical, and benefit from Advantage (if it effects multiple attacks) or overcome Disadvantage.

a 2 level dip was a Warlock for that cantrip and 2 Invocations is very useful for the Paladin, Bard, and Sorcerer. You can learn Eldritch Blast through several means, but only 2+ levels in a Warlock gives Invocations.

A Sorcerer is something I dont really know how to evaluate. the Metamagic Quickened is potentially awesome. Every 2 levels basically gain an additional use of Quickened per Long rest. The problem is just that, its per Long Rest. Until level 20 a Sorcerer doesnt gain any benefits to short resting. The Synergy between a Warlock that is based on using Short Rests to regain spells is difficult to take full advantage of.

a Bard isnt strong on fighting without devoting Feats, multiclassing, and generally splitting itself to be a Master of None. Its great for Skills, and because of Magical Secrets its possible to copy certain party roles, like pick the resurrection spells and act as a Pseudo-Cleric. Best I can find without splitting levels is to take Spell Sniper as a feat for Eldritch Blast, no Invocations though. Building a Expertise Bard is simpler but sacrifices any real combat ability. 1 level as a Rogue gives 2 Expertise skills, and 1 level as a Knowledge Cleric can give 2 more. It possible to have 6 Expertise skills by character level 5, but actual combat ability would be nil.

[Keravath]

Some folks don't like the delay in spell progression for a bard that taking a dip in warlock causes and I will admit that levels 5 and 6 can feel a bit tougher without your third level spells. However, I have a level 8 (level 6 lore bard/2 hexblade warlock) that I find very fun to play.

At levels 5 and 6 (3 and 4 in bard), eldritch blast comes on line for doing decent direct damage especially if combined with hex. At level 7 and 8 you have your third level spells and then the two magical secrets so spells catch up while eldritch blast continues to scale.

I find that my bard does lots of things ... skills (especially persuasion since I took expertise in it) ... party support, backup healing with healing word, crowd control and debuff.

Most of the possible issues are fixed with a two level hexblade warlock dip.
- Decent at will direct damage with eldritch + agonizing blast
- since I took VHuman with resilient con at first level, devils sight fixes some of the see in the dark issues of starting as a human.
- proficiency in medium armor, shields, and martial weapons ... AC 28 is easy wearing a breast plate, and holding a shield
- warlock spells - hex, shield - the shield spell is particularly useful if you are being hit since it boosts AC to 23
- 2 short rest first level spell slots and 6 first level slots altogether at higher level is very convenient
- hex warrior so that your one handed weapon uses charisma to attack
- hexblades curse for those times when you want a little more damage and larger chance of crits

Basically, I find the two level hexblade warlock contribution addresses most of what might be considered weaknesses in a pure lore bard. (One game I played in had 3 bards [this was AL] ... on rounds when there wasn't a good opportunity for a spell they would either fall back on a light crossbow or vicious mockery which was at least 1/2 or more of the combat rounds because often the situation wasn't that great for a spell. Vicious mockery does 2d4 at level 5-10 with a save for no damage, a single shot from the crossbow was d8+dex while if I had hex up I was doing 2d10 + 2d6 + 2 cha (if both hit) on those rounds when I didn't use a spell. I honestly felt I was contributing a lot more compared to only having vicious mockery.

At level 8 I have the following spells
- eldritch blast
- vicious mockery
- minor illusion
- prestidigitation
- mage hand
- hex
- shield
- charm person
- dissonant whispers
- faerie fire
- healing word
- blindness/deafness
- heat metal
- phantasmal force
- shatter
- suggestion
- counterspell
- fireball
- hypnotic pattern

Which gives the character a wide range of choice on what to do against various opponents and in various situations and with varying party composition (which happens all the time in Adventurers League ... so it can often be better to be more of a generalist in AL when playing a support class).

[Chaosticket]

Thanks for the Hexblade patron. Being that it gives benefits at level 1 rather than waiting for level 3 makes it better for multiclassing.

I still dont know if I should abandon the skills. Im not really able to actively using them unless the GM allows it to solve problems, and if not its a waste of levels. I have a long standing grudge against rules forcing me into "roll-playing" combat instead of using skills.

I cant make a Warlock/Bard gestalt. That would solve my problem. I wonder if I should abandon the Bard levels and just go Full Combat? I just cant get Expertise without multiclassing.

[Citan]

Thanks for the Hexblade patron. Being that it gives benefits at level 1 rather than waiting for level 3 makes it better for multiclassing.

I still dont know if I should abandon the skills. Im not really able to actively using them unless the GM allows it to solve problems, and if not its a waste of levels. I have a long standing grudge against rules forcing me into "roll-playing" combat instead of using skills.

I cant make a Warlock/Bard gestalt. That would solve my problem. I wonder if I should abandon the Bard levels and just go Full Combat? I just cant get Expertise without multiclassing.
Hi!

First, I agree with overall what you (on Eldricht Blast) and Keravath (on dual-class) said.
Of course, if you think your DM will throw little checks at you, and would at the same time rein in your own suggestions, then Bard's Expertise and Jack of All Trades would matter much less.
Fear not though, 'cause Bard (especially Lore) is still a very solid class to mix with Warlock.
- Healing first: you get the best emergency healing (Healing Words), and at level 6 you can grab Healing Spirit to combine with Catnap (standard), Tiny Hut (standard) and possibly Rope Trick (Magic Secret). This will make you a powerhouse at healing -and other things- combined with Warlock 3's short rest spells. As a Lore Bard, you also get Cutting Words, which does not seem impressive at first but actually gets a lot of mileage to reduce party harm.
- Control and offense then: Faerie Fire, being an AOE, means you will usually hit at least one enemy, often 2-3, meaning it's never a waste to attempt it. Phantasmal Force is a great tool to divert a dangerous enemy for a few turns or simply create a distraction to infiltrate. Heat Metal, although situational by nature, is not that far from an insta-win button against enemies in medium/heavy metal armor. Shatter is a pretty decent AOE, less damage than Fireball but also less friendly fire, and usable against objects too. Finally, at 3rd level spells, between Plant Growth, Fear and Hypnotic Pattern you'll certainly find one that suits your party style.

>>> If you want to play a dual class Warlock / Bard because you like the fluff implications or just think it's cool, go for it eyes closed. You'll not be "just good enough", you'll be as good or better as a single-class. Just in different ways (lesser powerful spells than expected, but much more sustainable).



I cant make a Warlock/Bard gestalt. That would solve my problem. I wonder if I should abandon the Bard levels and just go Full Combat? I just cant get Expertise without multiclassing.
By the way on this point, this is actually untrue. Alternative ways to "Bard" multiclass are only few, but exists. :)
1. Dual class Warlock and Sorcerer. Not only does Sorcerer gets "Enhance Ability" early enough, which is already a good way to approach a similar level of benefit (or actually better at low level), same class also gets "Skill Empowerment" at level 9. Although it competes with the former for concentration, at the level you get it the benefit becomes overall better since it raises the cap under which you auto-succeed.
This is the best way to go if you'd rather build someone with a strong combat toolset (and you can also MVP non-combat sessions with Subtle ;)).

2. Simply go Half-Elf, to qualify for racial feat Prodigy (authorized: humans, half-humans) to get a single Expertise in the skill you fancy the most. This solution is the one and only (that I can recall) to be a single-classed Warlock with Expertise somewhere. :)



a Bard isnt strong on fighting without devoting Feats, multiclassing, and generally splitting itself to be a Master of None

This bit seems extremely inaccurate to me.
If you were talking about Lore Bard specifically then I could agree (*maybe*, since combat is not all about just hurting people, and Bard has many spells to change the balance of power between antagonists).
Others?

- Valor Bard is the simple and solid thing for tanky gish. Pick Spirit Guardians or Circle of Power at level 10 and feel like a Cleric (except better damage with Extra Attack) or Paladin (except better protection since more slots to sustain Circle of Power).

- Swords Bard is a great martial at higher levels, between Extra Attack, Two-weapon fighting, Haste (Magic Secrets), and a "permanent" bonus of ~3 to AC (using 1d6 instead of actual BI die). + armor proficiencies.

- Whispers Bard can feel like a Rogue, thanks to extra damage scaling very well and recharging on short rest.

- Glamour Bard is another unsuspecting powerhouse, although more on the support side, thanks to the party-wide "THP + OA-free move". For the biggest fight, the ability to use Command as a bonus action gives you a pretty good chance to waste one creature's turn several times in a row, or simply order it to Crawl so you can then use a Booming Blade with advantage.

So the only investment made there in all case is level 10 Magic Secrets (or a Magic Initiate feat). Really not a big deal.
And with all Hexblade's benefits, it's even easier to make Bard a gish powerhouse. :)

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I really want to play total magic in Dungeons and Dragons sessions, but it doesnt seem like I can make a support spellcaster like a Pure Lore Bard work in 5e. I think I have to make a Blaster.

I dont know if there is a perfect blaster build.

A Bard 2/Warlock 2 multiclass is what Im trying right now. I know Im going to have so many penalties. I dont know how long the campaign Im in is going for so I dont know if a either class to level 20. Bard is better skill and support, warlock is better blaster. Should I give up on one class now?

Really do whatever fits your character better. Go talk with your DM and if her eyes sparkle when you mention an evil patron which can give the DM a few sessions worth of a story line you are golden.

A few dice here and there don't make that big of a difference but the damaging Cantrips are a good combo with the under rated subtly cool Vicious Mockery.

Consider pure Lore Bard with a feat of Magic Initiate. You'll get Eldritch Blast (w/o the bonuses), probably a melee attach cantrip and a 1st level spell. All this w/o slowing down how fast you get Magical Secrets for Fireball and Haste or Revivify or whatever.

When your Wizard has Polymorph and you don't its a long time until the next level up.

[Chaosticket]

Im currently running 3 different campaigns and maybe joining and/or dropping out of another soon.

Im trying to actually roleplay but then all the GMs pretty much make dungeon crawls. There my characters are terrible, and I usually rewrite them to be Warriors, and then wonder why they didnt say this was a warrior-only campaign.