Trying to make Bloodborne Style trick weapons

[Zertryx]

My current game that i am going to start running is set in Eberron with a Bloodborne style theme overlayed on top of it. One of the things i wanted to try and do was come up with a way to create Some bloodborne style trick weapons that had the ability to swap forms without making them overly powerful or super underwhelming. These weapons wont be available from the start but i was thinking of handing them out as like treasures or them being able to craft them using scrap they found on a hunt or something.

What i have though of so far would be somthing along the lines of taking 2 basic weapons, mashing them together and giving a special property that the can do to "swap" the form while also doing a unique thing on top of it.

Example being "Threaded Cane"

Martial, Shortsword / Whip (1d6 piercing, finess, light/ 1d4 slashing, finess, reach), Special

Special: after making an attack with the weapon, you can use a bonus action to transform the weapon into its other form as well as a special action
In Shortsword form - weapon changes into Whip and you are able to move 5ft from your target without provoking an OA
In Whip form - Weapon changes into a Shortsword and you can attempt to trip the enemy (DC 15? Dex save) and knock them prone if they fail

A few things i considered is also adding the weapons other forms dmg die tot he attack (no modifers added) durring the bonus action, so if you switch from short sword to whip you also add a D4 to the dmg roll though idk if that becomes Too powerful or not? (i figured you are using a bonus action so that conflicts with other class bonus actions so i figured the extra dmg couldnt be to op but idk?)

The other thing was idk if this conflicts too much with the new "Dual bladed scimitar" from the Eberron pdf, also should i limit the ammount of times per combat they can do the special actions?

Any kind of advice on this kinda thing would be much appreciated, weather there are guides on creating magical weapons (because im also willing to count these as magic items and just flavor them to be "trick weapons" maybe they have "Charges" for the transformations idk) or if there are already good balanced trick weapons made already that people have tested and used that they know of (i did find a few homebrews already but i never tested them before and they all seemed kinda underwhelming in general or way to powerful)

[Grod_The_Giant]

What i have though of so far would be somthing along the lines of taking 2 basic weapons, mashing them together and giving a special property that the can do to "swap" the form while also doing a unique thing on top of it.

Example being "Threaded Cane"

Martial, Shortsword / Whip (1d6 piercing, finess, light/ 1d4 slashing, finess, reach), Special

Special: after making an attack with the weapon, you can use a bonus action to transform the weapon into its other form as well as a special action
In Shortsword form - weapon changes into Whip and you are able to move 5ft from your target without provoking an OA
In Whip form - Weapon changes into a Shortsword and you can attempt to trip the enemy (DC 15? Dex save) and knock them prone if they fail
That's pretty cool, actually. Both seem fine for a bonus action.

[Zertryx]

As i started to try and come up with other weapon ideas with similar power i started to run into the issue that i feel im am stepping on the toes of Battle master and Rogue features since they currently have no limitations. This makes me believe that i may have to give these weapons "Uses per days / Charges" to try and keep them balanced more and if you expend all the charges there is a small chance the weapon breaks.

Basically the Concept i think would be, Bonus Action to change the weapon forms (with no specials added), and if i wanted to add the special menuvers / abilitys i could expend a charge. this way i still have the versatility of being able to swap the weapon forms without being punished while also giving the weapon something "More" to make it appealing over say just normal weapons.

because before the threaded cane i didn't realize at first but would kinda be a free Disengage every other turn stepping on one of the rogue class features.

So now it be something like

Threaded Cane - Martial Melee Weapon, Trick Weapon

Trick: When you draw this weapon or When you attack and hit with this weapon as a bonus action you change it to it's other form.

Cane Form: 1d6 Piercing Damage, Finess, Light
Special: When you use your Bonus action to change this weapon to Whip Form you can expend a charge and move 5ft away from your target without provoking an OA from them.

Whip Form: 1d4 Slashing Damage, Finess, Reach
Special: When you use your Bonus action to change this weapon to Cane Form you can expend a charge if the target of your attack is same size or smaller than you in attempt to trip them (DC = 8+prof+STR or DEX mod) vs their STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics) they choose which to use.

Charges: 3, you gain back all charges of this weapon after a Short Rest? if your charges reach 0 and you attempt to use the special maneuvers there is a chance the weapon can break and become unusable (50% chance?)

The other questions is does this now make it way less appealing? Should i add it so you can add the other forms weapon die to the special since you are consuming charges? does that just further step on Battle masters toes trying to do it that way and should just keep it without the bonus damage? do i make these magic weapons?

[iTreeby]

Threaded Cane - Martial Melee Weapon, Trick Weapon

Trick: When you draw this weapon or When you attack and hit with this weapon as a bonus action you change it to it's other form.

Cane Form: 1d6 Piercing Damage, Finess, Light
Special: When you use your Bonus action to change this weapon to Whip Form you can expend a charge and move 5ft away from your target without provoking an OA from them.

Whip Form: 1d4 Slashing Damage, Finess, Reach
Special: When you use your Bonus action to change this weapon to Cane Form you can expend a charge if the target of your attack is same size or smaller than you in attempt to trip them (DC = 8+prof+STR or DEX mod) vs their STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics) they choose which to use.

Charges: 3, you gain back all charges of this weapon after a Short Rest? if your charges reach 0 and you attempt to use the special maneuvers there is a chance the weapon can break and become unusable (50% chance?)

The other questions is does this now make it way less appealing? Should i add it so you can add the other forms weapon die to the special since you are consuming charges? does that just further step on Battle masters toes trying to do it that way and should just keep it without the bonus damage? do i make these magic weapons?


If your concern is that you will make the battle Master obsolete or inferior, you could change the wording so that it does damage when you make a trip attack with it it deals weapon damage.

I would not worry about charges because it isn't really too powerful in either form. I would definitely ditch the break chance because breaking is no fun (unless you like the wind fan in the dmg)

I would also just have it be a bonus action to change forms and allow it to simply stay in that form and gain the abilities of that form not limiting it to one use per form. It's not too powerful compared to something like flame tongue

[Zertryx]

If your concern is that you will make the battle Master obsolete or inferior, you could change the wording so that it does damage when you make a trip attack with it it deals weapon damage.

I would not worry about charges because it isn't really too powerful in either form. I would definitely ditch the break chance because breaking is no fun (unless you like the wind fan in the dmg)

I would also just have it be a bonus action to change forms and allow it to simply stay in that form and gain the abilities of that form not limiting it to one use per form. It's not too powerful compared to something like flame tongue

yeh breaking i suppose isnt really fun, however wouldn't being able to get a free disengage every other turn as a bonus action kinda be too good without any limitations? considering that its a class feature the Rogue gets? instead of charges maybe i could let the unique portion happen once per combat? (basically make it kinda like an encounter power?)

other than that though what other kinda things could i end up giving these kinds of weapons? i thought about one that gives Advantage on all your attacks next round, ones that attempt to disarm, ones that try to push the targets. im just afraid im gonna make these to powerful or end up creating some stupid combo i didnt forsee haha if i dont add limitations on the amount of uses.

These are a few ideas more i came up with

Hunters Axe - Martial Melee Weapon, Trick Weapon

Trick Property: When you draw this weapon you can choose which form it starts in

Axe Form: 2d4 Slashing
Special: When you attack and hit with this weapon you can use a Bonus action to switch to Halbread Form, In addition if the target of your attack is same size or smaller than you, you can attempt to Push them 5ft away from you
DC = (8+prof+STR) vs thier STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics) they choose which to use.

Halbread Form: 1d8 Slashing, Reach, Versatile (1d10)
Special: When you attack and hit with this weapon you can use a Bonus action to switch to Axe Form, In addition if the target of your attack is same size or smaller than you, you can attempt to Pull them 5ft towards you
DC = (8+prof+STR) vs thier STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics) they choose which to use.

-------------------------------------------

Saw Spear - Simple Melee Weapon, Trick Weapon

Trick Property: When you draw this weapon you can choose which form it starts in

Saw Form: 1d6 Slashing Damage, Light, Thrown (20/60)
Special: When you attack and hit with this weapon you can use a Bonus action to switch to Spear Form, In addition you also have advantage with all attacks made against this target untill the end of your next turn.

Spear Form: 1d6 Piercing Damage, Thrown (20/60), Versatile (1d8)
Special: When you attack and hit with this weapon you can use a Bonus action to switch to Saw Form, In addition if the target of your attack is same size or smaller than you, you can attempt to Disarm them, if they fail you can choose 1 item they are holding and it drops to thier feet.
DC = (8+prof+STR) vs thier STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics)

[iTreeby]

If you are worried about the disengage being to good just say your movement becomes zero after the make the special at rack and move 5. That brings it in line with the new weapon properties as a small move that doesn't outclass class abilities.

I'm not sure how the thrown ones work, do they have the returning property?

If you make the weapons trigger of the special attack type instead of a regular attack and bonus action I don't think it's broken, just a slight damage boost. But I don't think they are problematic.

If you record a combat that happens in a game in enough detail, you can compare the differences the weapons would make, just keep track of who doesn't use their bonus action each round. Or just had the weapons out and test them. Or give them to some mooks. I think you'll notice if it isn't fun. I don't see anything game breaking.

[Daghoulish]

Hunters Axe - Martial Melee Weapon, Trick Weapon

Trick Property: When you draw this weapon you can choose which form it starts in

Axe Form: 2d4 Slashing
Special: When you attack and hit with this weapon you can use a Bonus action to switch to Halbread Form, In addition if the target of your attack is same size or smaller than you, you can attempt to Push them 5ft away from you
DC = (8+prof+STR) vs thier STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics) they choose which to use.

Halbread Form: 1d8 Slashing, Reach, Versatile (1d10)
Special: When you attack and hit with this weapon you can use a Bonus action to switch to Axe Form, In addition if the target of your attack is same size or smaller than you, you can attempt to Pull them 5ft towards you
DC = (8+prof+STR) vs thier STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics) they choose which to use.

I really like the weapon but I would change the special in Halberd form. I think it would make more sense that it would instead make you move 5 feet forward (as you take a step forward in the game) and that you attempt to prone them (because you smash the enemy flat in the game).




Saw Spear - Simple Melee Weapon, Trick Weapon

Trick Property: When you draw this weapon you can choose which form it starts in

Saw Form: 1d6 Slashing Damage, Light, Thrown (20/60)
Special: When you attack and hit with this weapon you can use a Bonus action to switch to Spear Form, In addition you also have advantage with all attacks made against this target untill the end of your next turn.

Spear Form: 1d6 Piercing Damage, Thrown (20/60), Versatile (1d8)
Special: When you attack and hit with this weapon you can use a Bonus action to switch to Saw Form, In addition if the target of your attack is same size or smaller than you, you can attempt to Disarm them, if they fail you can choose 1 item they are holding and it drops to thier feet.
DC = (8+prof+STR) vs thier STR (Athletics) or DEX (Acrobatics)

I'm cool with these, not sure why they can be thrown but whatever it's your game. I think however that like in the game it should have the Finesse property as the spear and cleaver are some of the best quality weapons in the game (even if the spear is slightly better with skill, I don't feel its enough to mean anything). I think the disarm is really cool, and Versatile with the spear form makes a lot of sense.

[Zertryx]

If you are worried about the disengage being to good just say your movement becomes zero after the make the special at rack and move 5. That brings it in line with the new weapon properties as a small move that doesn't outclass class abilities.

I'm not sure how the thrown ones work, do they have the returning property?

If you make the weapons trigger of the special attack type instead of a regular attack and bonus action I don't think it's broken, just a slight damage boost. But I don't think they are problematic.

If you record a combat that happens in a game in enough detail, you can compare the differences the weapons would make, just keep track of who doesn't use their bonus action each round. Or just had the weapons out and test them. Or give them to some mooks. I think you'll notice if it isn't fun. I don't see anything game breaking.

yeah the throw property is mainly there because its on the normal axe / spear already and plus i figured might be cool if they wanna attempt to throw and try to swap the weapon when it hits (i may remove thrown and give it finess or something but i feel at that point i may have to switch it to martial to keep it in line with other weapons


I really like the weapon but I would change the special in Halberd form. I think it would make more sense that it would instead make you move 5 feet forward (as you take a step forward in the game) and that you attempt to prone them (because you smash the enemy flat in the game).



I'm cool with these, not sure why they can be thrown but whatever it's your game. I think however that like in the game it should have the Finesse property as the spear and cleaver are some of the best quality weapons in the game (even if the spear is slightly better with skill, I don't feel its enough to mean anything). I think the disarm is really cool, and Versatile with the spear form makes a lot of sense.

The main reason the axe / spear can be thrown is basically due to currently all 3 of these are based on weapons that already exist in 5e and im just kinda mashing them together and giving them a bonus action + switch form (i felt that was prob the simplest way for the moment to balance these basic weapons.

The hunteraxe is the slight exception as i did tweak the dmg die to be 2d4 instead of 1d8 and removed the versatility of the DnD Great Axe, and then removed heavy and lowered the die but gave it versatility for the halbread to try and see if giving small tweaks would still be appealing and work.

I gave a boss fight my players faced today the Threaded cane, it seems like it'll be fine basically one player grappled him and he wasn't able to take 5ft jumps anymore, but now the weapon is in their possession so i'll see how this turns out, but yeah overall it doesn't seem like these 3 will be any problems.

If anyone has some other ideas of what kinda Bonus actions i could add to other weapons, i want to try and make a few of the other Bloodborne weapons like the Burial blade (one of my favorites), the Blades of Mercy, Tonitrus / Boom Hammer and then after those i feel i might get into some of the more complicated ones / unique things like Rifle spear, Bow Blade, The wheel ect ...