Ways to convert an undead npc back to life

[MarkVIIIMarc]

An npc and possible pc or two of mine may get "killed" becoming undead slaves to a demon or a demon themselves.

What ways will the party probably think of or try to convert them back? I hate to be unprepared and answer "that won't work" because I hadn't thought of it.

[microstyles]

I tried looking this up the other day and the general consensus I found was going from undead to normal alive was the realm of powerful spells like True Resurrection and Wish.

If it were me however, I'd say that a destroyed zombie is a corpse, and should be revivable by appropriate magic such as Raise Dead or regular Resurrection.

[Kane0]

Step 1) Kill the undead
Step 2) Raise/Resurrect the corpse

Step 2 may have a variable success rate depending on the magic used and condition of the body, with more powerful spells such as True Resurrection and Wish outclassing Raise Dead and the like.
If you want give it a 10% chance of success per spell level or something.

[Unoriginal]

Step 1) Kill the undead
Step 2) Raise/Resurrect the corpse

Step 2 may have a variable success rate depending on the magic used and condition of the body, with more powerful spells such as True Resurrection and Wish outclassing Raise Dead and the like.
If you want give it a 10% chance of success per spell level or something.

Unless you use True Resurrection or Wish, trying to use a resurrection spell on a corpse that has been undead either doesn't work or bring the Undead back to un-life

[Kadesh]

Unless you use True Resurrection or Wish, trying to use a resurrection spell on a corpse that has been undead either doesn't work or bring the Undead back to un-life

Unless there is something I'm missing the only prevention is that it cannot BE undead.

'You touch a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, that didn’t die of old age, and that isn’t undead. If its soul is free and willing, the target returns to life with all its hit points.'

[Unoriginal]

Unless there is something I'm missing the only prevention is that it cannot BE undead.

'You touch a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, that didn’t die of old age, and that isn’t undead. If its soul is free and willing, the target returns to life with all its hit points.'

If you make an undead out of a corpse, it transform the creature's type into "undead", even if the creature is killed again.

[prototype00]

If you make an undead out of a corpse, it transform the creature's type into "undead", even if the creature is killed again.

... There is absolutely no rule in all of the core rule books that say what you just said.

If I am mistaken, apologies I advance, but, yeah. Not written there at all.

[Unoriginal]

... There is absolutely no rule in all of the core rule books that say what you just said.

If I am mistaken, apologies I advance, but, yeah. Not written there at all.

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/04/11/can-i-revify-a-killed-zombie/

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/07/if-a-pc-becomes-undead-can-resurrection-work-if-the-undead-pc-is-killed/

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/04/26/a-pc-infected-by-vampirism-can-be-killed-and-raise-dead/



Jason Pesch: Hey JC, if a PC dies and becomes undead, can resurrection work if the undead PC is killed? or must use true resurrection?

Jeremy Crawford: True resurrection and wish are the main ways to restore a person who has been damned by undeath



James Endicott:I don't think reincarnate says "doesn't work on undead" like the others do.


Jeremy Crawford:Reincarnate works only on a humanoid, not on an undead or a creature of another type



jprepo1: Another FB group question. Fighter dies from death tyrant, raised as zombie, killed, revivify w/in 1 min, does that work?

Jeremy Crawford: If you cast revivify on a zombie, the creature returns as a zombie. The spell doesn't change creature type.




Aaron Berkowitz:According to ALDMG, a PC infected by vampirism can be killed and Raise Dead used to restore them. Is this not RAW? Thanks!

Jeremy Crawford: Raise dead: "The spell can't return an undead creature to life" (PH, 270)




Viktor Bengtsson: So a dead undead is still undead for those spells?


Jeremy Crawford: Yes.


To precise.

[prototype00]

Ah, fair enough. I wasn’t searching Sage Advice.

[Unoriginal]

Ah, fair enough. I wasn’t searching Sage Advice.

Make sense that the creature type isn't reset by death after being modified, though.

[holywhippet]

Preparation is the key. Reincarnate only requires a piece of the humanoid that is dead. So cut off some hair in advance and after someone gets made into an undead kill them then cast reincarnate on the hair.

[some guy]

I'm shocked to learn that according to Crawford the life-restoring spells, that literally state "returns/restored to life", apparently can return a corpse to undead existence.
Wow.

[JackPhoenix]

I'm shocked to learn that according to Crawford the life-restoring spells, that literally state "returns/restored to life", apparently can return a corpse to undead existence.
Wow.

Only Revivify can, and that one works on any creature type, including constructs. True Resurrection returns them back to life, Raise Dead, Reincarnate and Resurrection plainly don't work on undead at all.

[some guy]

Only Revivify can, and that one works on any creature type, including constructs. True Resurrection returns them back to life, Raise Dead, Reincarnate and Resurrection plainly don't work on undead at all.

But Revivify still states "to life", twice. Something returning to life and becoming a zombie instead of an actual living being is not intuitive at all.

[JackPhoenix]

But Revivify still states "to life", twice. Something returning to life and becoming a zombie instead of an actual living being is not intuitive at all.

And what wording would you use for undead, constructs, elementals and other things that aren't trully alive? "Creature returns to life, unless it's undead, in which case it returns to unlife, or construct, in which case it returns to being animated, or elemental, in which case..."

[some guy]

And what wording would you use for undead, constructs, elementals and other things that aren't trully alive? "Creature returns to life, unless it's undead, in which case it returns to unlife, or construct, in which case it returns to being animated, or elemental, in which case..."

"Creature returns into being"

[Kadesh]

"Creature returns into being"

o.O yeh, nah.

[some guy]

o.O yeh, nah.

Can you tell me what's wrong with it?

[Kadesh]

The creature is already 'being', whether it is alive or dead.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I can live with rules as intended. If it has to be True Resurrection or Wish then getting one of them cast on your is a quest in itself. Another session just planned itself for me!

Debating the meaning of being and all that reminds me of conversations with bad ex girlfriends. "Oh, when I told you we were steady that didn't mean I couldn't get with him, ya know".

[some guy]

The creature is already 'being', whether it is alive or dead.

Thanks, that makes sense.

Would "previous state of being" work better?
"You touch the remains of a creature that has been slain within the last minute. That creature returns to it's previous state of being (life, undeath, or any other) with 1 hit point. This spell can't restore a creature that has died of old age, nor can it restore any missing body parts."

[Kadesh]

I can live with rules as intended. If it has to be True Resurrection or Wish then getting one of them cast on your is a quest in itself. Another session just planned itself for me!

Debating the meaning of being and all that reminds me of conversations with bad ex girlfriends. "Oh, when I told you we were steady that didn't mean I couldn't get with him, ya know".

@some guy:

This. Trying to get wordsy with a DM is a free invitation to be shown a door. The rules, per RAW (Undead is meaningless in and of itself, typing is little more than a Keyword in this edition) work. It might take a clarification, sage advice or an errata to help clarify, and I'd probably say you have a point if theu didn't exist, but they do, so what's the argument?

[some guy]

so what's the argument?

There's not an argument, it's more a case of me trying to see other's viewpoint. The RAI, as brought by Crawford, did not feel in line with the text of life restoring spells for me. I saw people accepting his RAI without trouble, this felt weird for me as I read the spells very differently. By changing the wording of the revivify spell I came closer to understanding how Crawford and others see the spell.

[Atalas]

the problem though, is it can make Necromancers extremely jerkish foes early to mid levels, because a DM can basically take a players character away without them honestly being able to do anything about it. Kill them, turn them into an undead, boom, that player is now forced to roll up an all new character if they want to keep playing.

[Unoriginal]

the problem though, is it can make Necromancers extremely jerkish foes early to mid levels, because a DM can basically take a players character away without them honestly being able to do anything about it. Kill them, turn them into an undead, boom, that player is now forced to roll up an all new character if they want to keep playing.

Well two things:

1: that's a bit the point, Undead are horrific inherently

2: as a Necromancer, turning someone into an undead isn't a fast process unless you're using very high level magic

[MarkVIIIMarc]

the problem though, is it can make Necromancers extremely jerkish foes early to mid levels, because a DM can basically take a players character away without them honestly being able to do anything about it. Kill them, turn them into an undead, boom, that player is now forced to roll up an all new character if they want to keep playing.

Death should have consequences, even if I didn't spell it right.

Just have a high level chaotic something restore your pc....but at a cost.

[microstyles]

If it were me however, I'd say that a destroyed zombie is a corpse, and should be revivable by appropriate magic such as Raise Dead or regular Resurrection.

Ok you guys have convinced me. Only allowing True Resurrection or Wish gives a good mechanical reason for necromancy to be vilified--like it is in many of these fantasy settings. Animating a dead body corrupts it in such a way that the soul can no longer return.

[GoodmanDL]

Additional option: Divine Intervention, but depending on the deities and dead caracter involved.

While some clarity may be lacking in 5e, historically - returning an undead creature back to mortal life was very rare and difficult in prior editions of the game. Basically requiring Wish or a Miracle

[Merudo]

Thanks, that makes sense.

Would "previous state of being" work better?
"You touch the remains of a creature that has been slain within the last minute. That creature returns to it's previous state of being (life, undeath, or any other) with 1 hit point. This spell can't restore a creature that has died of old age, nor can it restore any missing body parts."

What about this wording?

"The death of the creature is undone, and it regains 1 hit point."

[JackPhoenix]

What about this wording?

"The death of the creature is undone, and it regains 1 hit point."

Necromancy. Appropriate for the topic, inappropriate for the forum.

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Thread Necromancy is disfavored here.