I just realized...

[woweedd]

You know, a lot of people, back during the Godsmoot, were questioning why lots of the gods seem so apathetic about the idea of destroying the world, some of them for ridiculous reasons. This new comic makes me realize that of course they're apathetic: They've gone through this song-and-dance thousands of times. All those worlds, either obliterated by The Snarl or destroyed by The Gods themselves, to save thousands of souls? Seeing that sort of tragedy happen over and over again would wear on any soul. It makes sense some of them would retreat into apathy, disassociate so as to not be hurt again. They're just numb. They've seen The Snarl break out countless times. In the end, it all falls to pieces, always. No wonder some of them seem so quirky: It's a way of coping with the fact that billions and billions of souls, including a full quarter of their own number, died as a result of their petty squabbles. I'd go a bit nuts too.

[DeliaP]

It also makes the reasons of Thor, Sif, Freya etc seem that much more impressive. After all this time, after so many worlds have been lost, it would be so much easier just to retreat into a shrug of the shoulders and say "oh well, another one bites the dust, what do we try now?"

But they don't. They care about this world just as much as the first world , and they've cared about *every single one* in between. Logic be damned, they're not giving up. Ever.

(For the first time, I'm actually feeling something positive about the OotS-world gods!)

[woweedd]

It also makes the reasons of Thor, Sif, Freya etc seem that much more impressive. After all this time, after so many worlds have been lost, it would be so much easier just to retreat into a shrug of the shoulders and say "oh well, another one bites the dust, what do we try now?"

But they don't. They care about this world just as much as the first world , and they've cared about *every single one* in between. Logic be damned, they're not giving up. Ever.

(For the first time, I'm actually feeling something positive about the OotS-world gods!)
Yeah. I mean, I already found them to be noble, since their reasons all essentially boil down to "I actually give a **** what happens to these little creatures we made." but, with this context...Christ. Well, Thor, in this context, but you know what I mean.

[Mordaedil]

I assume every cycle all of the various souls that survived get to be reincarnated rather than being fresh souls, but the souls are probably not really the same after reincarnation.

[Mike Havran]

It also makes the reasons of Thor, Sif, Freya etc seem that much more impressive. After all this time, after so many worlds have been lost, it would be so much easier just to retreat into a shrug of the shoulders and say "oh well, another one bites the dust, what do we try now?"

But they don't. They care about this world just as much as the first world , and they've cared about *every single one* in between. Logic be damned, they're not giving up. Ever.

(For the first time, I'm actually feeling something positive about the OotS-world gods!) They are all divine beings. Time does not affect them the way it does mortals.

[jwhouk]

They are all divine beings. Time does not affect them the way it does mortals.

But loss apparently does. And perhaps even more, considering.

[Synesthesy]

And they have tried so many times that they almost know for sure that even this world will be destroyed sooner or later; some gods clearly talk like they are voting on when destroy the world, not if destroy it or not.

[Jaros]

I assume every cycle all of the various souls that survived get to be reincarnated rather than being fresh souls, but the souls are probably not really the same after reincarnation.

I think it's been said that the afterlife souls eventually kind of... merge with their plane after ascending enough? At least that's how it seems to work on Celestia, from what I've heard. I'd assume the other afterlifes have similar end points appropriate to themselves.

[Zyzzyva]

It also makes Monkey's demands for ninjas in #274 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) even funnier. It's not like they're not going to get more opportunities to throw stuff in; but, damnit, Monkey wants ninjas now! :smallbiggrin:

[Dion]

It also puts the wager between Loki and Hel into perspective. It seemed crazy to make such a rash bet when this was the second world. It makes a lot more sense when this is world no. 12,845,333,401.

“Hey Thor! Remember how last time we made the undead thirst for ranch dressing, instead of blood? Wasn’t that great? Well, this time let’s...”

[Jaros]

“Hey Thor! Remember how last time we made the undead thirst for ranch dressing, instead of blood? Wasn’t that great? Well, this time let’s...”

You heartless monster! That was a terrible bet! There's a reason it's only the semi-elemental plane now...

[denthor]

I just realized...


Durkon is worried about where his body is layed to rest.

How many generations of dwarfs could there have been in under 1,200 years. Maximum 5.

V on the other hand does not seem to care about other generations. There can also be only a maximum of 5.

Or is my math way off?

[Jaros]

I just realized...


Durkon is worried about where his body is layed to rest.

How many generations of dwarfs could there have been in under 1,200 years. Maximum 5.

V on the other hand does not seem to care about other generations. There can also be only a maximum of 5.

Or is my math way off?

Someone in another thread mentioned that War & XPs bonus material says King Monarch IV started the Northern Calender with year 1 being the founding of The Kingdom, so 1184 is likely the age of that calender, not the world itself

[Synesthesy]

How long do dwarf live? And when can they have children? This can answer the number of generations...

[Borris]

How long do dwarf live? And when can they have children? This can answer the number of generations...

The 3rd edition Player's Handbook tells us that "Dwarves are considered adults at about age 40, and they can live to be more than 400 years old."

I still believe that the current world is a lot older than a few thousand years. The given year is just that of the current Northern calendar.

[Dion]

so 1184 is likely the age of that calender, not the world itself

Yeah, the age of the world doesn’t matter much. The world is as old as it is.

Maybe Stickworld is like GoT, where it’s abundantly clear the Gods didn’t have a
clear idea how old the world actually was when they started to create it.

[LuisDantas]

The 3rd edition Player's Handbook tells us that "Dwarves are considered adults at about age 40, and they can live to be more than 400 years old."


Has it ever been stated how fertile Dwarves are? Or at which upper age limits for each gender?

Reaching adulthood probably involves becoming fertile, or is close enough for a rough estimation. And we know now that the gestation period is of only a few months.

But if both genders of Dwarves are fertile from the start of maturity until 200 or 300 years later, telling the number of generatiions passed may become much trickier than with humans. And age taboos will be much lesser than with humans, probably including a routine situation of young adults frequenting the same social circles as their own grandparents and mating anywhere within a range of six different generations or even more.

And current Dwarves at year 1184 since the very first Dwarves would be a mix from anywhere between the 3rd generation to the 30th, leaving aside unusual or extreme situations.

[Takver]

To the original post, yeah, it really changes how we think about the gods. And this has probably been brought up somewhere in the 24-page comic discussion thread, but I think that's why we had that interaction between Thor and Minrah beforehand. Because the first reaction I had to that long panel was despair - what's the point, they'll always lose, so many worlds ended and lives lost, etc.

But Thor's still kind to Minrah, one of his most minor clerics. He still knows her name and her hopes and fears. He's seen all that eternity of failures and yet Minrah still matters to him. And so should the fate of this world, and the characters we know and love, still matter to us. It's a counsel against despair.

[hamishspence]

I still believe that the current world is a lot older than a few thousand years. The given year is just that of the current Northern calendar.

It's worth noting that black dragons have not had enough time to hybridise enough that all black dragons share the same bloodline.

Several unrelated black dragon families were created - and since then, they have hybridised, but due to the lack of time that has gone by, only 1/4 of all black dragons are related in such a way that they actually get killed by Familicide when one member of the family is hit by it.

And "each family is extremely concentrated in one region" doesn't apply either - dragons all over the world are hit by it.

[Goblin_Priest]

It's worth noting that black dragons have not had enough time to hybridise enough that all black dragons share the same bloodline.

Several unrelated black dragon families were created - and since then, they have hybridised, but due to the lack of time that has gone by, only 1/4 of all black dragons are related in such a way that they actually get killed by Familicide when one member of the family is hit by it.

And "each family is extremely concentrated in one region" doesn't apply either - dragons all over the world are hit by it.

That spell also jumped bloodlines, though, if I remember correctly. Based on some... relatedness... affected some people a more linear genealogical effect wouldn't have.

We have no idea how large the founding population was, though.

Also, that spell is OP as "?$/!.

[hamishspence]

That spell also jumped bloodlines, though, if I remember correctly.

Stage one "everyone who shares blood with target" has no limitations. Stage 1 kills 1/4 of all black dragons, and also, all Draketooths.

Stage 2 "everyone who shares blood with those killed by Stage 1" has limitations. It kills those who are the grandparents, parents, uncles, cousins, etc of Draketooths but have no dragon blood themselves. Like Tarquin's wife. It requires a living ancestor of a Draketooth who is not a Draketooth themselves, for it to work.


Step 1: Kill everyone with the original target's blood. This is a simple yes/no effect: Is a creature (the secondary target) related by blood to the original target at all, in any way? If yes, kill it. If no, move on. Number of generations or percentage of blood or direction doesn't matter.

Step 2: Kill everyone who shares blood with any of the people killed in Step 1. Think of it as killing everyone descended from (or siblings to) any and all still-living ancestors of each secondary target. So if Penelope had a grandfather on one side and a great-grandmother on the other side who were still alive, every person who could trace their blood back to either of those people would be dead, because Penelope's daughter carries both of their bloods. If a person can only trace their blood through (say) Penelope's already-dead great-great-great-grandfather, then they're safe. Thus cousins and second-cousins and the like are all dead, but more distant genetic relations are not. It is possible for some cousins to survive if all older generations were already dead, yes, but Vaarsuvius wasn't really likely to take the time to make that distinction while sobbing on a dungeon hallway floor.




1.)The people created at the moment of the planet's creation were all unrelated to each other, or perhaps only related in small groups—a family of 5 or 10 might have been created, but with no relation to all the other families being simultaneously created. Why? Because.

2.) There is no reason to think that just because the comic shows something that it is statistically likely, or that the number of panels I draw of something is intended to be a statement about the frequency of such a thing. I do not draw the comic based on statistics or demographics, I draw it based on what looks good.

3.) Yes, the proof that not all humans have the blood of that specific black dragon is the fact that they didn't all die. Things aren't errors just because they don't support your preferred assumptions. It just means your assumptions are wrong.

4.) Explicitly, I am going to say that no black dragon, ever, in the history of the world, ever mated with any human being until Girard's grandparents. Some black dragons mated with other species, and some other colors of dragon mated with humans. But black dragons and humans? One time only in the history of OOTS-world. That's canon now. Done.

It's now impossible for any humans to have died other than the Draketooths and the families they intermingled with in the last 5 generations. And since Step 2 of the spell requires a LIVING link to keep the chain going, humans that have no living ancestors with those people are safe.



We have no idea how large the founding population was, though.

The Giant suggested that it could have been 100 dragons.


Wouldn't
that spell kill everyone of the original target's species?
In our world? Maybe. The OOTS world is not ours, though. It was created fully populated, even with black dragons. So there could be 100 original black dragons who (as V noted) breed slowly over the relatively-short span of time the current world has been in existence, leading to one-quarter of them being wiped out.

[dps]

Has it ever been stated how fertile Dwarves are? Or at which upper age limits for each genre?

Reaching adulthood probably involves becoming fertile, or is close enough for a rough estimation. And we know now that the gestation period is of only a few months.

But if both genres of Dwarves are fertile from the start of maturity until 200 or 300 years later, telling the number of generations passed may become much trickier than with humans. And age taboos will be much lesser than with humans, probably including a routine situation of young adults frequenting the same social circles as their own grandparents and mating anywhere within a range of six different generations or even more.

And current Dwarves at year 1184 since the very first Dwarves would be a mix from anywhere between the 3rd generation to the 30th, leaving aside unusual or extreme situations.

Did you mean "genders" where you posted "genres"? 'Cause otherwise I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

[LuisDantas]

Did you mean "genders" where you posted "genres"? 'Cause otherwise I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Good catch. Yes, I sure did. I will fix my previous post now.

[Mightymosy]

Sorry to derail but I have a pressing issue: How exactly do dragons mate with humans? i have a hard time picturing this, and I hope something like metamorphosis spells are involved?

[5a Violista]

Sorry to derail but I have a pressing issue: How exactly do dragons mate with humans? i have a hard time picturing this, and I hope something like metamorphosis spells are involved?

My guess is "magic", but I suppose psionics could work as well, if we have it in this setting...

[Werbaer]

Sorry to derail but I have a pressing issue: How exactly do dragons mate with humans?
Shapeshifting.

[Kantaki]

Sorry to derail but I have a pressing issue: How exactly do dragons mate with humans? i have a hard time picturing this, and I hope something like metamorphosis spells are involved?

Very carefully I'd hope.:smalleek:

[DeliaP]

It also puts the wager between Loki and Hel into perspective. It seemed crazy to make such a rash bet when this was the second world. It makes a lot more sense when this is world no. 12,845,333,401.

“Hey Thor! Remember how last time we made the undead thirst for ranch dressing, instead of blood? Wasn’t that great? Well, this time let’s...”

Actually, it so completely alters the Hel, Loki, Thor wager that I hadn't even thought this through.

If this had been World 2.0 and the hope or expectation was that it would last for ever, then Hel has been royally screwed over if she can't bring about the world's destruction - either voluntarily, in which case she wins and becomes Queen of the North for what is expected or hoped to be lasts-forever World 3.0, or destroyed-by-Snarl, in which case she might not get the Dwarven souls, but no-one else gets anything and at least she's released from the bet for World 3.0.

And in that case her plan would have been: even if the Dwarven Council don't get dominated by her vampire clergy, then the game isn't over as if the last gate goes Krakatoom then the gods have to unmake the world and she still wins. (Which is why I was expecting Durkula to still be around in Book 7 to lead Hel's minions in the final pile-up at Kraagor's Gate - shows what I know. Fortunately I forgot to change my bet in the OotS death pool though!)

But now look at it: this is World (x^y+z).0 and the Gods probably expected it to have a finite lifespan just like all the (x^y+z-1) before. And that means whenever that lifespan ends, if the Dwarves haven't already all died out, either Hel wins and becomes Queen of the North for World (x^y+z+1).0 or the Snarl breaks free and no-one gets any souls at all.

And there is a pretty clear implication in the Godsmoot discussion that remaking the world before the Snarl breaks free is not going to be too difficult - and so will be the default world ending scenario.

So: even if the Dwarven council is saved, and Xykon is defeated, and the fifth gate is defended, and Redcloak is stopped, and the other four gates are restored it is still the expectation that World (x^y+z).0 will have a finite lifespan and Hel will get all the Dwarven Souls at the end and will be Queen of the North in World (x^y+z+1).0, unless something can be done to make World (x^y+z).0 the permanent final world.

Which suggests one of a number of possibilities:

1) Loki really didn't think the bet through. (While Loki fans no doubt think this implausible, Loki trying to be too-clever-for-his-own-good and getting caught out is well within both Norse and Marvel versions)

2) Loki did think it through and really wants (or doesn't mind) Hel to be Queen of the North in the next world (somewhat at odds with his interaction with Hel at the Godsmoot, but this could be trickster double-dealing going on, where he's pretending to be on one side, but really on the other, trying to play chess-master, and which explains why his speech was so weak...)

3) Loki did think it through but has some further tricks up his sleeve to prevent Hel winning. And being a smart trickster god, he's avoiding a premature villain gloat and so didn't reveal to Hel what those tricks were at the Godsmoot.

4) Loki thinks this world might have (had) a chance to be permanent. Which gets back to "and was trying to royally screw Hel over".

FWIW: My money's on (1).

But also it means that I think that is one of the things Thor is going to point out to Durkon: if they can't fix this world permanently, then eventually, Hel is going to get millions of Dwarven souls. Which he probably already knew, but wouldn't have realised just how stupendously difficult a challenge it would be to make this world permanent.