Difficulties in creating a literal cat race.

[Brightersidegam]

So, I told a story to my group on how I played a cat wizard in 4e, for, like, a few games (like all of our "campaigns," it didn't last long before another shiny thing came out), and how much of a blast it kind of was to get up into some cat-like shenanigans. My current group liked it so much that they almost insist that I remake him in 5e (admittedly I suggested it), yet I'm having trouble finding a way to go about it.

See, this isn't a Tabaxi we're talking about, but a literal, house cat. Not exactly the most original idea, the idea of a typical wizard familiar going on an independent adventure, or a character like Salem from Sabrina the teenage witch and stuff.

The trouble is finding out how to do it. The original character was a human wizard that had somehow, permanently, been turned into a cat, it worked in 4e because of how that system did it's thing, but it's a touch trickier in 5e for a plethora of reasons. The idea, up until today, had been "make a variant human, only choose cattle options for the choices, make them tiny and have beast typing, be done." Not very elegant, but slightly better then "look at cat monster block, change intelligence." Which, admittedly, is also a way to go.

What I found today, though, was a homebrew race called the "Grimalkin," and while looking over it, liked the core of the race, but ultimately not the execution. I felt it unbalanced and kind of all over, like they were over balancing for the lack of dexterous manipulation playing a quadrapedal cat brings. It got me thinking of maybe making a ligit race for my character, based off the Cat Sidhe mythos, wouldn't add a bit more flair then a character I've literally played before.

Basically an intelligent, fey cat. The problem came when I realized elves are basically just that. Was thinking a bonus to dexterity and charisma, reflecting the cat nature and the beguiling fey nature. Dark vision, fey ancestry and keen sight, all elvish traits, all fit for a fey cat as well. The biggest difference the could be given to the Cat Sidhe would be taken from the Grimalkin race that I found, giving them the wild shape ability, a la druid (there's a little bit of a shape shifting myth when it comes to Cat Sidhe), and allowing dexterity to jump distance, and acrobatics to climb.

Am I just over thinking this? Is the simple solution of just make a variant human the best way to go about this? I'm lucky in that I'm not really under a time crunch for this, so there's time to actually implement it right, and not hash it together in a couple hours, so if an entire race needs to be made for one character, it can be.

[Unoriginal]

So, I told a story to my group on how I played a cat wizard in 4e, for, like, a few games (like all of our "campaigns," it didn't last long before another shiny thing came out), and how much of a blast it kind of was to get up into some cat-like shenanigans. My current group liked it so much that they almost insist that I remake him in 5e (admittedly I suggested it), yet I'm having trouble finding a way to go about it.

See, this isn't a Tabaxi we're talking about, but a literal, house cat. Not exactly the most original idea, the idea of a typical wizard familiar going on an independent adventure, or a character like Salem from Sabrina the teenage witch and stuff.

The trouble is finding out how to do it. The original character was a human wizard that had somehow, permanently, been turned into a cat, it worked in 4e because of how that system did it's thing, but it's a touch trickier in 5e for a plethora of reasons. The idea, up until today, had been "make a variant human, only choose cattle options for the choices, make them tiny and have beast typing, be done." Not very elegant, but slightly better then "look at cat monster block, change intelligence." Which, admittedly, is also a way to go.

What I found today, though, was a homebrew race called the "Grimalkin," and while looking over it, liked the core of the race, but ultimately not the execution. I felt it unbalanced and kind of all over, like they were over balancing for the lack of dexterous manipulation playing a quadrapedal cat brings. It got me thinking of maybe making a ligit race for my character, based off the Cat Sidhe mythos, wouldn't add a bit more flair then a character I've literally played before.

Basically an intelligent, fey cat. The problem came when I realized elves are basically just that. Was thinking a bonus to dexterity and charisma, reflecting the cat nature and the beguiling fey nature. Dark vision, fey ancestry and keen sight, all elvish traits, all fit for a fey cat as well. The biggest difference the could be given to the Cat Sidhe would be taken from the Grimalkin race that I found, giving them the wild shape ability, a la druid (there's a little bit of a shape shifting myth when it comes to Cat Sidhe), and allowing dexterity to jump distance, and acrobatics to climb.

Am I just over thinking this? Is the simple solution of just make a variant human the best way to go about this? I'm lucky in that I'm not really under a time crunch for this, so there's time to actually implement it right, and not hash it together in a couple hours, so if an entire race needs to be made for one character, it can be.

The easiest and most elegant solution is simply to make the wizard as they were before the transformation, then just changing their physical stats to the ones of the cat from the MM. With the cat's features.

Simple.

As long as they can talk and don't have their mental stats modified, there isn't any mechanical issues.

Using a special powerful fey cat who can use their master stat to nearly everything to avoid the inconveniences is kind of going "actually their curse makes them stronger", which is not really using the concept of being turned into a cat well, IMO.

[Magzimum]

Make sure to give the cat a claw attack. Consider a pounce attack (see e.g. the Panther in the Monster Manual) for tiny and small creatures.

Also, maybe you can do something with the fact that cats are said to have 9 lives? And it is said that cats can (partially, and with limitations) heal themselves by purring.

Finally, any good self-respecting cat race would need a little more rest. Looking at real housecats, they rest up to 20 hrs per day. But, even when they appear to be asleep, they have some kind of perception and sneaking up on them is very difficult.

Balancing all of this may be difficult. :)

[nickl_2000]

The easiest and most elegant solution is simply to make the wizard as they were before the transformation, then just changing their physical stats to the ones of the cat from the MM. With the cat's features.

Simple.

As long as they can talk and don't have their mental stats modified, there isn't any mechanical issues.

Using a special powerful fey cat who can use their master stat to nearly everything to avoid the inconveniences is kind of going "actually their curse makes them stronger", which is not really using the concept of being turned into a cat well, IMO.

Take the cat stat block, let them keep the original intelligence, wisdom, and charisma scores. Give them the ability to talk, darkvision 60 feet, and increase the claw damage to be 1d4+dex.


Overall it would be a curse since they are losing other things, but the character should still be playable

[Maelynn]

What Unoriginal said looks like the easiest option. Especially since then you've got the Wizard part covered the best. If necessary, you can tweak bits here and there if you feel that a cat wouldn't be able to do the things it could back when it was still a Human. Like playing a flute.

Also, adjust your spell list accordingly. Gust is a must-have, so you can knock things off surfaces. Expeditious Retreat as well, because cats bolt away as soon as something is amiss. Charm Person, with a disadvantage on their Wisdom saving throw if the target displayed a positive attitude towards cats/you before you cast the spell. A downgraded version of Stinking Cloud, like only a 5ft square. Oh, and no spells involving water.

[iTreeby]

Be a great old one pact of the chain warlock and play as the cat familiar that has dominated a humanoid servant.

[MagneticKitty]

Im doing an awakened cat mystic. It has 1d4 claws, negate fall damage 20 feet and under, 40 speed, darkvision


Awakened Cat Traits

Ability Score Increase: Your Dexterity score increases by 2. Your intelligence increases by 1.

Age: Due to the magic coursing through you, you have an average lifespan of 50+ the average lifespan of the animal you are.

Alignment: Awakened cats tend to be neutral in their outlook on life, although life experiences and their heightened intellect might cause them to have a different opinion on matters.

Size: Awakened cats are Small size and can grow up to twenty inches long.
Speed: Your walk speed is 40ft.
Darkvision: Accustomed to twilit forests and the night sky, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in Darkness, only shades of gray.

Languages: An Awakened Cat can speak, read, and write Common. Additionally, awakened cats can communicate with other felines in their own language, as if under a continuous speak with animals spell.
Natural weapons: your claws deal 1d4+dex slashing damage and are considered fineese.
Cat’s Grace: You can move through the space of any creature that is of a size larger than yours.
Feline’s Grace: Awakened cats have proficiency in the acrobatics skill. If you fall 20 feet or less you don’t take fall damage.

[Brightersidegam]

The easiest and most elegant solution is simply to make the wizard as they were before the transformation, then just changing their physical stats to the ones of the cat from the MM. With the cat's features.

Simple.

As long as they can talk and don't have their mental stats modified, there isn't any mechanical issues.

Using a special powerful fey cat who can use their master stat to nearly everything to avoid the inconveniences is kind of going "actually their curse makes them stronger", which is not really using the concept of being turned into a cat well, IMO.

Yea, this was what I was thinking, until I started realizing that the base race was human, and a lot of their "traits" aren't natural to being human, so much as their adaptability in every situation. I'm thinking more on the feat they get, but same logic applies to skills and language. If the human form was alert, then would they lose that after the transformation? If not, then the benefits of being a cat far outweigh the cost, and suddenly I'm making human+. Less then 10lbs? I can mage hand myself anywhere. Heck, mage hand in general. Unseen servant, and other spells really make the no-hand thing trivial, and an intelligent wizard would find ways around those disadvantages.

I mean, ultimately, it's what I've done, and probably what I'll stick with, but I'm just wondering if there isn't a better approach.

[Nifft]

A wizard would have access to Shocking Grasp and other cantrips, so I wouldn't bother making 1d4 claws -- let the little paws be relatively ineffectual by default, but in actual play that's irrelevant because magic.

Booming Blade might be funny -- theme it as tripping over a phantom spirit cat if the target moves. (Tripping over a thunder cat, if you will.)


Spellcasting ought to be obvious (so NPCs can Counterspell etc.), maybe something cute like the little cat standing on its hind legs and pawing the air.

[ImproperJustice]

Really, the most elegant solution is to just have you be polymorphed into a cat for mechanical purposes as described above.

It’s a fun idea. My wife did something similar in a Rifts game, playing an escapee from Odessa. She was a mutant cat named Mittens, with above average intelligence and opposable thumbs. She was adopted by an old Mage as a house pet, and she learned the magic trade from him, eventually becoming a full fledged Ley Line Walker.

There was something intensely humerous about the tiny house cat riding on the shoulders of the Glitter Boy (An awesomly powerful Power Armor Trooper), deflecting lasers and missiles, while magically hurling tanks with Magical Telekinesis and then Flying through the air raining fire on those below.

[Anymage]

An elf subrace that can wild shape into a cat sounds like it would be the simplest case. +1 Cha, aforementioned wild shape ability (the Beast Spells feature and ability to speak might be a little strong to add to this racial, but I'd allow it because d'aww kitty), token weapon proficiencies because elf, and you have your subrace features. If you stay cat form full time, I think you forget little inconveniences like lugging around your spellbook and component pouch. Having the option to take a humanoid form, especially if your gear comes along with said humanoid form, should be simpler. Plus, the ease of doing enough damage to pop a cat wild shape means that combats are easier on the DM, even if they aren't as much fun.

Full time cat, my biggest worry about going full MM statblock is that it basically gives you free dumpstats. The basic cat package - super-dump strength, a climb speed and +10 land speed, innate advantage on all perception checks - sounds like the beginning of a race already. Try to hammer out fair cat racial features first. If you've been in that form long enough it's okay to call all those traits your racial features, and not focus overmuch on the race and features you had long ago in some other form.

[Brightersidegam]

An elf subrace that can wild shape into a cat sounds like it would be the simplest case. +1 Cha, aforementioned wild shape ability (the Beast Spells feature and ability to speak might be a little strong to add to this racial, but I'd allow it because d'aww kitty), token weapon proficiencies because elf, and you have your subrace features. If you stay cat form full time, I think you forget little inconveniences like lugging around your spellbook and component pouch. Having the option to take a humanoid form, especially if your gear comes along with said humanoid form, should be simpler. Plus, the ease of doing enough damage to pop a cat wild shape means that combats are easier on the DM, even if they aren't as much fun.

Full time cat, my biggest worry about going full MM statblock is that it basically gives you free dumpstats. The basic cat package - super-dump strength, a climb speed and +10 land speed, innate advantage on all perception checks - sounds like the beginning of a race already. Try to hammer out fair cat racial features first. If you've been in that form long enough it's okay to call all those traits your racial features, and not focus overmuch on the race and features you had long ago in some other form.

Admittedly, the trying to manage the little things LIKE the spell book and material components is kind of a draw for me. How would a cat get around those limitations, and just how far can mage hand be pushed (actually thinking of later on multi classing rogue/arcane trickster, if just for the mage hand perks). Yet, these are things that a clever wizard should be able to work through and problem solve. Maybe even going so far as to making spells that fix since problems, or getting/making magic items to hold stuff (would be funny to see a cat carrying around a portable hole)

Also, I'm starting to lean toward using the cat stat block, and just rolling the "mental" stats for the character. I've done the "human looking to become human again," and am finding more and more a charm behind the chaos of a cat gifted with intelligence. Luckily, my group liked a good story and character over the power level of said character, and I've been talking with the DMs about how best to make this work. But ultimately I'm the one with the most experience with 5e in our group, so they kinda differ to me whether something is a bit powerful.

I guess another option is to go sorcerer instead of wizard, go with wild magic, and let chaos ensue.

[Greywander]

I once played a couple games as a horse monk. Also in the party was a zombie, the zombie's ghost, and a mimic, I don't remember their classes. It wasn't meant to be a serious campaign (especially since the zombie ate our first quest giver).

When you say you want to play a cat, what exactly do you mean. Are you...?

A normal cat?
An "awakened" cat with human level intelligence but otherwise behaves like a cat?
An intelligent entity in the form of a cat, such as a human under a curse?

In the first case, I'd almost say just use the cat stat block. Alternatively, you can use the method I used for my horse monk: roll ability scores normally, and apply the modifiers from the stat block as bonuses/penalties. In either case, you'll have a hard time getting the INT you need to be a viable wizard (mine was 6, IIRC).

In the third case, you could probably roll your mental stats normally, but use the physical stats from the cat's stat block.

The second case is probably the trickiest. What you might do is just roll your stats normally, then apply a +2 bonus to whatever the highest ability score on the cat stat block is, and a +1 to the second highest. (In the case of a tie, you get to choose between the tying ability scores). This could also work for the third case, but not so much for the first since your INT would likely be too high.

[Bohandas]

Relevant:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?76770-Cat-Fans-Unite-and-PEACH

[Brightersidegam]

I once played a couple games as a horse monk. Also in the party was a zombie, the zombie's ghost, and a mimic, I don't remember their classes. It wasn't meant to be a serious campaign (especially since the zombie ate our first quest giver).

When you say you want to play a cat, what exactly do you mean. Are you...?

A normal cat?
An "awakened" cat with human level intelligence but otherwise behaves like a cat?
An intelligent entity in the form of a cat, such as a human under a curse?

In the first case, I'd almost say just use the cat stat block. Alternatively, you can use the method I used for my horse monk: roll ability scores normally, and apply the modifiers from the stat block as bonuses/penalties. In either case, you'll have a hard time getting the INT you need to be a viable wizard (mine was 6, IIRC).

In the third case, you could probably roll your mental stats normally, but use the physical stats from the cat's stat block.

The second case is probably the trickiest. What you might do is just roll your stats normally, then apply a +2 bonus to whatever the highest ability score on the cat stat block is, and a +1 to the second highest. (In the case of a tie, you get to choose between the tying ability scores). This could also work for the third case, but not so much for the first since your INT would likely be too high.

Originally the character fell under option number three, but talking with the DM, it would seem that option number two is the route we're going this time around. That being said, I think we've finally worked it out.

That doesn't mean that the conversation should end, though. I actually like the idea of making a race of intelligent cats or cat-like creatures from the fey realm. Sort of natural tricksters that masquerade as normal cats until they deem necessary. Could be an interesting concept (and, apparently, the playing of animals seems to be a common enough theme)

[Greywander]

That doesn't mean that the conversation should end, though. I actually like the idea of making a race of intelligent cats or cat-like creatures from the fey realm. Sort of natural tricksters that masquerade as normal cats until they deem necessary. Could be an interesting concept (and, apparently, the playing of animals seems to be a common enough theme)
Like a cat sith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_s%C3%ACth)? Hmm, ideas...

[Blacky the Blackball]

The biggest problems I forsee with an intelligent cat as a character is that spellcasting is going to be very limited.

If you can talk (rather than just making cat noises) then you can at least use spells with V components, but your lack of hands means no S or M spells and the inability to use a component pouch or arcane focus.

For those reasons, I'd not recommend being a wizard.

I'd recommend being either a bard (they have more V-only spells, including Vicious Mockery and Dissonant Whispers so you'll have some basic attacks to fall back on), or a sorcerer who is limited to V-only spells most of the time, but can occasionally use Subtle Magic to be able to cast a VS or S spell.

I think if I were creating an intelligent cat character I'd probably go for a lore bard.

[nickl_2000]

The biggest problems I forsee with an intelligent cat as a character is that spellcasting is going to be very limited.

If you can talk (rather than just making cat noises) then you can at least use spells with V components, but your lack of hands means no S or M spells and the inability to use a component pouch or arcane focus.

For those reasons, I'd not recommend being a wizard.

I'd recommend being either a bard (they have more V-only spells, including Vicious Mockery and Dissonant Whispers so you'll have some basic attacks to fall back on), or a sorcerer who is limited to V-only spells most of the time, but can occasionally use Subtle Magic to be able to cast a VS or S spell.

I think if I were creating an intelligent cat character I'd probably go for a lore bard.

Just curious, why couldn't a cat have a arcane focus The phb says that is could be a crystal, which could easily be hung from a collar and then cradled in the cats paw (or just touched).

[DragonBaneDM]

I came here because I thought we'd be creating a racing competition where we tried to launch housecats at supersonic speed. I've been let down by this website for the last time.

[nickl_2000]

I came here because I thought we'd be creating a racing competition where we tried to launch housecats at supersonic speed. I've been let down by this website for the last time.


May I suggest a CATapult?

Doing that would be a CATastrophe

[nickl_2000]

Weird that this appeared just today

https://www.facebook.com/drunkonhomebrew/photos/a.434582130386956/457332811445221/?type=3

I don't agree with the stats, still and odd thing to see.

[Blacky the Blackball]

Just curious, why couldn't a cat have a arcane focus The phb says that is could be a crystal, which could easily be hung from a collar and then cradled in the cats paw (or just touched).

Because a focus has to be manipulated in a free hand (of which a cat doesn't have any), not just worn around the neck or touched. That's why there are all the arguments about the War Caster feat and about the differences between S, M, and SM spells when it comes to foci replacing the need for components.

[Damon_Tor]

Because a focus has to be manipulated in a free hand (of which a cat doesn't have any), not just worn around the neck or touched. That's why there are all the arguments about the War Caster feat and about the differences between S, M, and SM spells when it comes to foci replacing the need for components.

There are cats with usable thumbs. Thumbs they can use to grab things, even. My sister had a cat that would reach into a basket of cat toys, grab one, then throw it across the room so he could chase after it.

Here, found an article about a dextrous cat: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3202025/Cravendale-cat-FOUR-extra-digits.html
A thread in which multiple people recount their polydactyl cats using their thumbs to grab and throw: https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/8jbyfj/my_cat_has_thumbs/

Anyway, I seem to recall a magic item that was a sash that could function as an extra hand. Maybe this was in a past edition, I'm not sure. Anyway, such an item could be used to give a non-thumbed creature the ability to use spells with reagents, and do things like open doors and such.

[Nifft]

I came here because I thought we'd be creating a racing competition where we tried to launch housecats at supersonic speed. I've been let down by this website for the last time.
That sounds less like a race (since the cats aren't competing with their own speed), and a lot more like playing horse-shoes or curling.

You should start a thread about curling cats.


There are cats with usable thumbs. Thumbs they can use to grab things, even. My sister had a cat that would reach into a basket of cat toys, grab one, then throw it across the room so he could chase after it.

Here, found an article about a dextrous cat: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3202025/Cravendale-cat-FOUR-extra-digits.html
A thread in which multiple people recount their polydactyl cats using their thumbs to grab and throw: https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/8jbyfj/my_cat_has_thumbs/ Commoners and Wizards are doomed, aren't we?

[Greywander]

Like a cat sith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_s%C3%ACth)? Hmm, ideas...
Here's what I've managed to whip up. I have no idea if it's balanced or not. Definitely seems skewed toward spellcasting classes, but could also make for a decent rogue or monk.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ul1AnJPlOa16gprurnZuEN2Ei7bhr3JWsbG3Gqucso/edit#

Edit: Let me also add that I had a lot of trouble finding any concrete folklore about the cat sith. Most of the websites that talk about the cat sith just regurgitated the sparse Wikipedia article, while the only info not on Wikipedia is about a poet named Senchen Torpiest who could roast people with his rhymes (if Shakespeare is to be believe, this guy was a RL Vicious Mockery user who could literally kill with his insults) and once roasted Irusan, the King of the Cats. I've found no other reference to Irusan except another website that word-for-word repeated the previous reference.