Highest damage in one turn

[Bladewing2013]

Whats the highest damage in one "turn" with no outside help?
So no buffs from someone else, magic items, etc
Allowing all books and UA

My best guess is:
Class: Pheonix sorcerer 20
Race: Tiefling
Feats: Flames of Phlegethos
Cha: 20 (obviously)
Spells: Time stop, delayed blast fireball, fireball, scorching ray
Metamagic: Quickened, enhanced

Order:
Quickened scorching ray
Time stop
Mantle of Flame
Empowered DBFB
Empowered Fireball
Quickened scorching ray

Total is 57d6+85 re-rolling 1s, re-rolling 5 dice of both fireballs
To lazy to find average

[Kadesh]

Twinned Power Word Kill = 200 damage, guaranteed.

Time Stop is multiple Turns.

[strangebloke]

Same as the last thirty times this question came up.

It's an assassin 17/paladin 3 bugbear attacking from stealth with a rapier, casting booming blade in the process.

9d6 sneak attack
2d8 smite damage
1d8 rapier
3d8 booming blade (4d8 on next turn)
2d6 ambush (bugbear racial ability)
5 Dex

It's an auto-crit death strike, so the die are doubled and then the damage as a whole is doubled.

(12d8 + 22d6 + 5)*2 = average of 266, with a max of 466

This is improvable with gear, even nonmagical gear. Notably, purple worm venom adds 12d6 damage which is doubled twice for another 168 damage. (EDIT: Poison doesn't crit. So it's just 84 damage.)

Your example is illegal, since you can't cast a spell as a bonus action and as a regular action on the same turn. So both scorching rays are illegal. You can sub in a quickened firebolt which will deal 4d10 +5 or 4d10 +20 after mantle of flame, but that's obviously less. You also can't use firebolt twice, no matter how you slice it. Once timestop ends, you can't then take a timestop bonus action.

Honestly, you're also better completely disregarding the regular fireball and using scorching ray, instead, since its damage scales much better.

You can also spend your last two levels in fighter to get action surge for an extra spell, which will be scorching ray again.

So its instead:

Quickened Time stop
Mantle of Flame
Empowered DBFB (7th level 13d6+20)
Empowered scorching ray (8th level 18d6+180)
Empowered scorching ray (6th level 14d6+140)
Empowered Firebolt (4d10+20)

the 'reroll on 1' gives you an extra 0.7 on each of those d6s, and the math for the second reroll is very complicated but we'll approximate it as a +0.5 per die. So each d6 here averages to 4.7, and each each d10 to 6.7.

So that's 55d6+4d10+360 = 645.3

Actually if you forgo timestop completely and action surge to use your 9th and 8th level slots both on scorching rays the total is 38d6 + 4d10 + 400 = 605.4, which is only a little less.

...but the important thing to realize here is that this is all only possible because we're exploiting a probably-unintentional exploit in the text of the UA that probably would never make it to print, that the phoenix spark ability applies separately to each attack. Read more realistically, your combo comes out to 365.3, which is still really impressive, just... less so. But the first bit of my post deals with the correct answer without considering UA.

EDIT: The first part is the highest single target damage if you disallow summoning and/or minionmancy, and if you only count single-target damage.

[Sudsboy]

This is improvable with gear, even nonmagical gear. Notably, purple worm venom and adds 12d6 damage which is doubled twice for another 168 damage. (or 288 max)

Poison can't crit, so that would be 84 average after doubling.

[strangebloke]

Poison can't crit, so that would be 84 average after doubling.

You're quite right.

[Tanarii]

So its instead:

Time stop
Mantle of Flame
Empowered DBFB (7th level 13d6+20)
Empowered scorching ray (8th level 18d6+180)
Empowered scorching ray (6th level 14d6+140)
Empowered Quickened Firebolt (4d10+20)
If you quicken a Fire Bolt (or other spell), you can only cast cantrips on your Action(s).

[Ganymede]

An army walks across a caldera that's really a Mirage Arcane. The wizard that cast it ends the spell, and the army falls 1,000 feet into a lake of lava.

If you need more damage, just add more armies to the scenario; you have a whole square mile in which to fit the armies, so you're good.

[strangebloke]

If you quicken a Fire Bolt (or other spell), you can only cast cantrips on your Action(s).

Right. That rule gives me hives with how complicated and annoying it is.

so in my example the time stop is quickened and the firebolt is as normal.

[vexedart]

Once hit 32 men in formation for 34 damage with a single fireball. 1088 damage, but I’m sure people are looking for single target too.

Be a level 17 caster with shapechange, simulacrum, poison tool kit proficiency, fabricate, and animate objects.

WARNING:
This cheese is cheddar, and it’s sharp, don’t cut yourself. I’ve not done it in a game, but I have fun theorizing.

Shapechange into a purple worm and have your simulacrum harvest it’s poison for you, use fabricate to hasten the process of crafting a useable poison. Have a jar of 18 semi hollow iron needles soaking in the poison. Have a spare also made for your partner in crime, your simulacrum.

Open the lid to your needle container. Now cast a level 9 animate objects for 18 tiny servants, the glass needles soaking in purple worm poison.

18d4+72+216d6

Now have your simulacrum copy you...

36d4+144+432d6=2592 Max damage, if the gods smile upon your rolls.

Now these things only have a +8 to hit, so find a way to get advantage. They don’t have eyes, so dim light or darkness might help, and if you really, really, REALLY want (more) books thrown at you, tiny servant, or a necromancer with raise dead can get even more mileage out of this (ab)use of the spells intentions. I’m to lazy to do the math, but a necromancer could save his level 9 spell to achieve the same DPR previously mentioned, not counting his army of poison soaked zombies/skeletons, or his simulacrums army.

[Ganymede]

Right. That rule gives me hives with how complicated and annoying it is.

I do wonder if it would even break anything if that rule was deleted.

[Tanarii]

Right. That rule gives me hives with how complicated and annoying it is.How is it complicated? If you cast a Bonus action spell, any other spells on your turn must be 1 Action cantrips. That's a single sentence straight forward rule.

I can't speak on how much it annoys you though. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:


so in my example the time stop is quickened and the firebolt is as normal.You lost me now. Because the Time Stop ends as soon as you cast a damaging spell. Can you include the actions each thing is using.

[samcifer]

Same as the last thirty times this question came up.

It's an assassin 17/paladin 3 bugbear attacking from stealth with a rapier, casting booming blade in the process.

9d6 sneak attack
2d8 smite damage
1d8 rapier
3d8 booming blade (4d8 on next turn)
2d6 ambush (bugbear racial ability)
5 Dex

It's an auto-crit death strike, so the die are doubled and then the damage as a whole is doubled.

(12d8 + 22d6 + 5)*2 = average of 312, with a max of 466

This is improvable with gear, even nonmagical gear. Notably, purple worm venom and adds 12d6 damage which is doubled twice for another 168 damage. (EDIT: Poison doesn't crit. So it's just 84 damage.)

So Booming Blade adds it's spell damage to the weapon attack damage? (I've always been confused by this spell's wording and how the damage on the attack is calculated).

[strangebloke]

How is it complicated? If you cast a Bonus action spell, any other spells on your turn must be 1 Action cantrips. That's a single sentence straight forward rule.

I can't speak on how much it annoys you though. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

You lost me now. Because the Time Stop ends as soon as you cast a damaging spell. Can you include the actions each thing is using.

It's complicated because it's not intuitive. A rule like 'you can't cast more than one non-cantrip spell a turn' would be much more straightforward. A bonus action cantrip denying a regular action spell, but not vice versa, is silly. Action surge granting two spells is also silly.

As to timing: all of the timestop turns happen immediately after time stop happens. A quickened spell can be cast before or after the main action.

So you can do:

Quickened timestop
(stuff during time stop)
Action (cantrip)
Action surge action (spell)

[holywhippet]

Twinned Power Word Kill = 200 damage, guaranteed.

Time Stop is multiple Turns.

?? Power word kill does nothing unless the target has 100 HP or less. You can use it to do 200 HP worth of damage, but only if both targets have exactly 100 HP each.

[Tanarii]

So you can do:

Quickened timestop
(stuff during time stop)
Action (cantrip)
Action surge action (spell)But you can't cast an action surge action (spell). You cast a quickened Time Stop. So you can only cast 1 action cantrips on your turn. That applies to all actions, including from an Action Surge.

Guess it is kinda complicated. :smallbiggrin:

[LudicSavant]

UA allowed? Well, there's always the nuclear druid, for when you want to kill anything in the Monster Manual with one shot that can't even miss.

[MrStabby]

Quivering palm monk is also a point of interest for this kind of thing.

Likely to do more damage than storm of vengeance over a populated area? Probably not.

Likely to do more than a necromancer with a summoned army of skeletons against an encounter? Again probably not.

But it can do just enough damage with no overkill against a lot of opponents.

[strangebloke]

But you can't cast an action surge action (spell). You cast a quickened Time Stop. So you can only cast 1 action cantrips on your turn. That applies to all actions, including from an Action Surge.

Guess it is kinda complicated. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, right. So you'd be best off Just forgetting about the bonus action entirely.

[Tanarii]

Oh, right. So you'd be best off Just forgetting about the bonus action entirely.
Yup. IMO the only time quicken is worth it is if you can do something huge with your Action. Like use it to do something with an ongoing spell, or to extra attack for huge damage (if you're a multiclass). It's just not worth it to drop an extra cantrip outside of niche "this is my only battle today" scenarios.

[NaughtyTiger]

Poison can't crit, so that would be 84 average after doubling.

why can't poison crit?

[Kadesh]

why can't poison crit?

A Critical Hit requires an attack roll. Poison is a saving throw, and thus a different source of damage.

[NaughtyTiger]

A Critical Hit requires an attack roll. Poison is a saving throw, and thus a different source of damage.

so no crit was specifically referring to "purple worm poison can't crit", not in general.
cuz there are several poison damages that aren't saving throw and are part of the attack.

[Kadesh]

so no crit was specifically referring to "purple worm poison can't crit", not in general.
cuz there are several poison damages that aren't saving throw and are part of the attack.

Every source of poison in the DMG has a save attached to it.

You are correct in that there are other sources of no-save poison damage (Yuan-ti, as an example, as it's one we recently fought), but there's no rules presented yet for procuring these as poisons you can apply as yet (for example, unlike the poisons presented in the DMG, they are not stated as being Contact, Ingested, Inhaled, or Injury).

[NaughtyTiger]

Every source of poison in the DMG has a save attached to it.

You are correct in that there are other sources of no-save poison damage (Yuan-ti, as an example, as it's one we recently fought), but there's no rules presented yet for procuring these as poisons you can apply as yet (for example, unlike the poisons presented in the DMG, they are not stated as being Contact, Ingested, Inhaled, or Injury).


i was considering beastmaster with flying snake and trickster cleric divine strike. those are direct attack rolls with poison damage. that poison should crit.
i was confused by the blanket statement that poison doesn't crit. it is clear you are referring specifically to applying poisons to weapons for bonus damage.

[Kadesh]

i was considering beastmaster with flying snake and trickster cleric divine strike. those are direct attack rolls with poison damage. that poison should crit.
i was confused by the blanket statement that poison doesn't crit. it is clear you are referring specifically to applying poisons to weapons for bonus damage.

Given that was the context of the discussion, that appears to be correct, yes.

[UrielAwakened]

Yup. IMO the only time quicken is worth it is if you can do something huge with your Action. Like use it to do something with an ongoing spell, or to extra attack for huge damage (if you're a multiclass). It's just not worth it to drop an extra cantrip outside of niche "this is my only battle today" scenarios.

Sorlocks love quickened Eldritch Blasts.

[R.Shackleford]

Technically, the highest damage you can deal is equal to the target's current HP. You can't deal 1000 damage to a creature that has 5 HP.

Say theoretically, you can deal 100 HP on your turn. If the creature has 60 HP... You only deal 60 HP worth of damage. If my character deals 70 HP of damage in a turn, we deal the same amount of damage to that creature.

Sure, massive damage is a thing for PCs, but enemies and monsters insta die at 0.

***
So, side note, for the most optimal damage dealer, you want to shoot for a target number (damage) equal to the average HP of the creatures you will be facing. But only the ones that your minimum damage doesn't kill.

This way you don't waste too many resources on damage but you have enough to be a major threat.

End side note.

***

Just a thought. I love optimized builds and silly stuff like Snake Tsunami so I'm not trying to be a buzzkill or anything haha.

[NaughtyTiger]

Technically, the highest damage you can deal is equal to the target's current HP.

When damage reduces you to 0 Hit Points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum.

you can deal at least maxHP + current HP.

[R.Shackleford]

When damage reduces you to 0 Hit Points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum.

you can deal at least maxHP + current HP.

Massive damage is for PCs. Not for monsters/NPCs.

"Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.

Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.

Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable."

The DM can run all creatures like PCs, but that's always seemed to be the exception in 5e.

So, the most damage you can do is their current HP.

[JNAProductions]

Quivering Palm on whatever has the most HP.

[EdenIndustries]

Same as the last thirty times this question came up.

It's an assassin 17/paladin 3 bugbear attacking from stealth with a rapier, casting booming blade in the process.

9d6 sneak attack
2d8 smite damage
1d8 rapier
3d8 booming blade (4d8 on next turn)
2d6 ambush (bugbear racial ability)
5 Dex

It's an auto-crit death strike, so the die are doubled and then the damage as a whole is doubled.

(12d8 + 22d6 + 5)*2 = average of 312, with a max of 466


Correct me if I'm wrong, but there might be an error with your math there:

(12d8 + 22d6 + 5)*2
= (12(4.5) + 22(3.5) + 5)*2
= (54 + 77 + 5)*2
= (136)*2
= 272 average damage, not 312

[holywhippet]

Quivering Palm on whatever has the most HP.

That is a little dubious unless you multi-class with fighter to get action surge. Quivering palm normally takes one turn to put into place and then a following standard action to activate. That is two turns, not one unless you use action surge to give yourself another action. On top of that it allows a CON saving throw which high HP monsters can likely succeed.

[Kadesh]

That is a little dubious unless you multi-class with fighter to get action surge. Quivering palm normally takes one turn to put into place and then a following standard action to activate. That is two turns, not one unless you use action surge to give yourself another action. On top of that it allows a CON saving throw which high HP monsters can likely succeed.

Similarly, the amount of preparation many of these builds have to go through also equate to spending more than one turn, and have several other improbabilities.

[Millface]

Not sure why there seems to be an implied winner here, but it's not at all the winner, not by a mile.

Paladin 2/Rogue 3 (assassin)/Fighter 2/Warlock (hexblade) 5/Sorcerer 8 with PAM, Half Orc prebuff with haste

With Assassinate this master of single target death gets 6 attacks with action surge and haste, each of which crit, fitting in 8 smites between the Hexblade and Paladin + an additional damage dice per crit from Half Orc Savage Attacks (4 4th level smites, 2 3rd level smites, then an additional 2 3rd level smites from warlock, which stack on two of the attacks) and deals a whopping 15d10+3d4+74d8+66 (+11 per hit if you curse the target before you ambush) or 504 average damage in one turn with a max of 820.

There are 4 or 5 paladin/fighter/rogue configurations at minimum that absolutely put the Bugbear assassin in the dirt in terms of optimal set up single turn damage. Smites are just king of one turn nova. The smite damage alone here weighs in at 333 average damage, outclassing every single multiclass you could put together that doesn't capitalize on Assassinate/4th Level Smites/Action Surge.

You can probably get higher than my numbers, but it would be with some other combination of those three abilities just plugged in differently.

[Kadesh]

Not sure why there seems to be an implied winner here, but it's not at all the winner, not by a mile.

Paladin 2/Rogue 3 (assassin)/Fighter 2/Warlock (hexblade) 5/Sorcerer 8 with PAM, Half Orc prebuff with haste

With Assassinate this master of single target death gets 7 attacks with action surge (4 4th level smites, 3 3rd level smites, then an additional 2 3rd level smites from warlock, which stack on two of the attacks) and haste and deals a whopping 12d10+4d4+80d8+66 (+11 per hit if you curse the target before you ambush) or 514 average damage in one turn with a max of 842.

There are 4 or 5 paladin/fighter/rogue configurations at minimum that absolutely put the Bugbear assassin in the dirt in terms of optimal set up single turn damage. Smites are just king of one turn nova.

I'd like you to stat that out with Stat Array and see how unlikely that is, between your 2 ASI's, and need for 4 stats to be 13, without a Cha bonus race, the ability to do what you suggest from ambush in any case (Hex, Haste, and then what?, hope you go first with a +1 Initiative?)...

[Millface]

I'd like you to stat that out with Stat Array and see how unlikely that is, between your 2 ASI's, and need for 4 stats to be 13, without a Cha bonus race, the ability to do what you suggest from ambush in any case (Hex, Haste, and then what?, hope you go first with a +1 Initiative?)...

Nobody ever stated the rules for how likely the situation has to be.

The curse itself isn't that important. Haste only adds 2d10+6d8+5 anyway, so it still does 13d10+3d4+68d8+25. Which is 423 average damage.

If you like... Variant Human instead, take PAM with your first level, +1 Dex +1 CHA. You get 3 ASIs, 1 at warlock 4, one at sorc 4 and one at sorc 8. Two are for CHA, one is for Alert, if that makes you happier.

13 Str
14 Dex
12 Con
10 Int
10 Wis
16 Cha

No set up, then
Drops your damage to 8d10+2d4+64d8+25 = 370. For more realism, average AC is 18 for that level, which, with advantage, you have only have a 91% chance to hit with a non-magical weapon. So 361*.91= 337 average single turn damage. Your stats with basic point buy fit the multiclassing, and you have a +7 initiative and Expertise in Stealth (you don't need initiative if you manage to surprise, btw)

Would this character level well? No, not at all. But I can't run numbers to answer the challenge if I don't know what rules I'm supposed to be playing by. There were no parameters set here. Give me some, if you like, and I'll run that instead. The point is, there's no build that doesn't use 4th level smites and action surge that will outdo a build that does when it comes to single turn damage potential.

[MaxWilson]

That is a little dubious unless you multi-class with fighter to get action surge. Quivering palm normally takes one turn to put into place and then a following standard action to activate. That is two turns, not one unless you use action surge to give yourself another action. On top of that it allows a CON saving throw which high HP monsters can likely succeed.

It does however have the virtue of completely dominating the assassin/paladin build, since anything that would fail its save against the Assassin's Death Strike would fail its save against Quivering Palm. In the assassin/paladin's case, failing the save leads to 300+ points of damage; in the Quivering Palm case, failing the save reduces you directly to 0 HP no matter how many HP you have.

In either case, you're restricted in practice to targets with much less than 300 HP, because anything that has 300 HP probably has beefy Con saves and/or legendary resistance to deny Death Strike and Quivering Palm both.


Not sure why there seems to be an implied winner here, but it's not at all the winner, not by a mile.

Paladin 2/Rogue 3 (assassin)/Fighter 2/Warlock (hexblade) 5/Sorcerer 8 with PAM, Half Orc prebuff with haste

With Assassinate this master of single target death gets 6 attacks with action surge and haste, each of which crit, fitting in 8 smites between the Hexblade and Paladin + an additional damage dice per crit from Half Orc Savage Attacks (4 4th level smites, 2 3rd level smites, then an additional 2 3rd level smites from warlock, which stack on two of the attacks) and deals a whopping 15d10+3d4+74d8+66 (+11 per hit if you curse the target before you ambush) or 504 average damage in one turn with a max of 820.

There are 4 or 5 paladin/fighter/rogue configurations at minimum that absolutely put the Bugbear assassin in the dirt in terms of optimal set up single turn damage. Smites are just king of one turn nova. The smite damage alone here weighs in at 333 average damage, outclassing every single multiclass you could put together that doesn't capitalize on Assassinate/4th Level Smites/Action Surge.

You can probably get higher than my numbers, but it would be with some other combination of those three abilities just plugged in differently.

Not bad. I don't follow the details of your math (15d10+3d4+74d8+66--what are those d10s and d4s? are you using a halberd + PAM instead of Quickened Booming Blade? and what's 66 for? Strength mod should only get you +30) but the gist is clear.

Note that there is nothing to stop you from smiting purely with 4th level spells instead of 3rd, since you have warlock + sorcerer to easily build up a dozen or so 4th level spell slots over a few hours' rest. (This isn't "coffeelock"/Java Do'Urden because it doesn't require multiple sleepless nights, just a few hours' meditation.)


Would this character level well? No, not at all. But I can't run numbers to answer the challenge if I don't know what rules I'm supposed to be playing by. There were no parameters set here. Give me some, if you like, and I'll run that instead. The point is, there's no build that doesn't use 4th level smites and action surge that will outdo a build that does when it comes to single turn damage potential.

It would probably level just fine IMO. Take the Fighter level first for Con save proficiency and heavy armor, then a couple of warlock levels, then a few sorcerer levels. That's your bog-standard armored sorlock and you'll do just fine from levels 1-13ish (Fighter 2/Warlock 3/Sorcerer 8) using spells like Fear and Eldritch Blast and Polymorph. You can do all of your fancy assassin/paladin multiclassing at levels 14+.

[Millface]

Honestly the real best answer is to just break a staff of the magi over your knee for 400 damage. That's if we can use magic items, that is.

[MaxWilson]

Honestly the real best answer is to just break a staff of the magi over your knee for 400 damage. That's if we can use magic items, that is.

The real best answer is "who cares if the damage happens all in one turn?"

[KorvinStarmast]

Be a level 17 caster with shapechange, simulacrum, poison tool kit proficiency, fabricate, and animate objects.

WARNING:
This cheese is cheddar, and it’s sharp, don’t cut yourself. I’ve not done it in a game, but I have fun theorizing.

Shapechange into a purple worm and have your simulacrum harvest it’s poison for you, use fabricate to hasten the process of crafting a useable poison. Have a jar of 18 semi hollow iron needles soaking in the poison. Have a spare also made for your partner in crime, your simulacrum.

Open the lid to your needle container. Now cast a level 9 animate objects for 18 tiny servants, the glass needles soaking in purple worm poison.

18d4+72+216d6

Now have your simulacrum copy you...

36d4+144+432d6=2592 Max damage, if the gods smile upon your rolls.

Now these things only have a +8 to hit, so find a way to get advantage. They don’t have eyes, so dim light or darkness might help, and if you really, really, REALLY want (more) books thrown at you, tiny servant, or a necromancer with raise dead can get even more mileage out of this (ab)use of the spells intentions. I’m to lazy to do the math, but a necromancer could save his level 9 spell to achieve the same DPR previously mentioned, not counting his army of poison soaked zombies/skeletons, or his simulacrums army. I love it.

[Millface]

Not bad. I don't follow the details of your math (15d10+3d4+74d8+66--what are those d10s and d4s? are you using a halberd + PAM instead of Quickened Booming Blade? and what's 66 for? Strength mod should only get you +30) but the gist is clear.
.

It was a halberd with PAM, but Quickened booming blade would probably be significantly better. Hadn't even thought of it, that's incredibly powerful.

The 66 was for the +6 per attack that you'd get if you were able to curse your target before ambushing them. That, I'd think, would be DM discretion for whether or not you have to actually say anything to lay down the Hexblade curse.

Booming Blade at 17 is 3d8 extra? So instead of 2d4 you'd get 6d8. The fact that you can smite on a Booming Blade is incredible, to be honest. I'm starting a campaign today where I'm running Hexblade 1, Paladin 1-6, then sorcerer for the rest (assuming I don't change my mind and take another level of warlock for invocations at some point, having trouble figuring out where I want them in the build. Opinions on that welcome). I can't believe the idea of quickening BB or GFB never occurred to me, and I'm a bit ashamed. Add to that that I hadn't thought of meditating for a couple hours to build more 4th level slots...

I just stumbled on some crazy good advice, thank you!

[MaxWilson]

Another thing to consider is that surprise is incredibly tactically powerful, and if you can get surprise you can usually kill whatever you're fighting even without any fancy smiting shenanigans. (Not only do you get a free round of actions, not only do your guarantee that your enemy has no short-term buffs in place when you attack them, not only do you get to choose favorable positioning before engaging, but your enemy can't even use defensive reactions like Shield and Counterspell against you.)

So... if you're playing with a DM that allows surprise to actually work the way it should, the "most powerful build" might just be "anything with access to Pass Without Trace", so your whole party can gain surprise against almost everything, all the time. It's like passing out free action surges to everyone, starting at level 3. By level 9 you can be auto-killing adult red dragons just by surprising them and casting Cloudkill + Wall of Force from two PCs during the surprise round. (Hello, 500d8 (2250) poison damage! Save for half, not that it matters.)

And if surprise just doesn't work that way at your table, well, neither will Assassin/Paladin tricks.

[Millface]

If you can't get the surprise, you can kind of make your own.

Paladin 2/Wizard 3 (Divination)/Fighter 6/Sorcerer 9

Instead of relying on surprise, you rely on a portent roll of 5 or less to ensure a quickened Hold Person on anything without legendary resistance, then proceed to do two attack actions full of level 4 smites.

It's a little less damage than the Rogue variant, but you create your own luck with that build, which is nice. Sure, you won't always roll low on portent, but when you do you get an auto kill on anything that isn't legendary. Build is mad AF though.

Something like V.Human
16 Str
08 Dex
14 Con
13 Int
09 Wis
14 Cha

[strangebloke]

Not sure why there seems to be an implied winner here, but it's not at all the winner, not by a mile.


Hmm, yeah, I think I was remembering a different challenge, the 'most damage in one attack challenge.'

[Millface]

Hmm, yeah, I think I was remembering a different challenge, the 'most damage in one attack challenge.'

Oh well yeah in that case Assassin wins hands down. It's not that far down the list on damage per turn, either. It's about as high as you can get without smiting.