Looking for tips on building an effective prebuilt party for players.

[QuadraticGish]

A DM for a group I'm in wants to run a low fantasy and likely low magic campaign that has players(including I) pick from 8 prebuilt characters. Now since he isn't that good at building characters, he has asked me to build the 8 characters following his role guideline for each character. The guidelines themselves are fairly loose, so I have more than enough wiggle room for building them so long as it fills their given role. What I'd like to ask for is some advice in making sure that the characters are fun to play and can contribute on the mechanical level. Of note, is that there is specifically only one spellcaster and that all these characters will be built at first level. I am also permitted to leave notes on potential advancement directions and notes on how to use a given character's tool set. The materials I'm limited to are 1PP materials found on the PFSRD and Spheres of Might material from the wiki. EDIT: I forgot to mention that only humans are allowed and zero firearms.


I'll be using initials to signify each character.

AB
-Vice commander of the merc troop
-Has been with the troop since it's formation
-Takes the front lines with a zweihander
-xenophobic
-Role: Combat(damage)+Leadership
Core stat: Str

-DS
-Has been with the troop for a year
-skulks outskirts of combat with a short bow and other small weapons to remove stragglers
-quite and efficient, doesn't say much
-Role: Scout, Combat(Stealth/Ranged)
-Core Stat: Dex

EV
-New recruit, has been with the troop for a couple of weeks
-Fences with a long sword and short spear
-Nervous but tries hard to impress
-Role: Combat(Support), Duelist
Core Stat: All-Around

GS
-Been with the troop since formation
-Charges in with morning star and shield, his hefty body being able to take a lot of blows
-Alcoholic who can't keep a secret, pleasant at bars
-Role: Combat(Tank)
Core stat: Con

HF
-Has been with troop nearly as long as AB and GS
Takes ot mid lines with a long spear and throwing weapons
-Has contacts that provide her with salves and medicals supplies while also being proficent in them. Acts as the doctor
-Friendly and approachable, acts like the mother figure
Role: Healer
Core stat: Wis

HS
-Has been with the troop for six months, Joining with K
-Takes to mid-lines, using whatever weapon is available while providing moral support
-Not very proficient in combat, but natural diplomat and motivational speaker
-Charming but sketchy, when speaking to HS you aren't sure if he is taking you for a ride or not
-Role: Diplomat. Combat(Support)
-Core Stat: Cha

K
-Has been with troop for 6 months, joining with HS
-Takes the high ground and shadows, sniping with his crossbow
-From another continent far south, Xenophobia has made him standoffish
-Role: Sniper, Combat(Ranged/Stealth)
-Core Stat: Dex

MB
-Has been with the company nearly as long as AB and GS
-Takes mid to back lines, casting spells to assist allies and harm enemies
-Only member capable of magic
-Use of magic has been slowing driving MB insane. He is mostly harmless but will ramble on for hours while making distracting noises
-role: wizard
-Core Stat: Int

[Palanan]

What are his role guidelines? Without knowing these it's hard to give any specific advice.

[BowStreetRunner]

Is this a group of 8 players each getting one of the PCs? Or is it a smaller number of players and there will be PCs left unpicked. Because I can see a huge issue if someone gets stuck with a PC they feel is lame just because that is the only one left in the group.

Also, do you know enough about the other players to anticipate the type of characters they are likely going to find interesting?

Additionally, please define 'spellcaster' in the context of the one character allowed to the party. Does this just mean a full-caster like Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid & Cleric? Or are Paladins, Rangers, Bards and such impacted as well?

[ericgrau]

Use a standard set of pregens like this one: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509831-All-the-Free-(on-paizo-site)-Pathfinder-Society-Pre-generated-Characters-in-one-PDF

It's not certain but you're more likely that the players will be of similar power level that way. Maybe not as strong as you like, but hopefully close to each other which is what's most important. For more daka you can always give them nifty items and so on as you play.

[QuadraticGish]

What are his role guidelines? Without knowing these it's hard to give any specific advice.
I'll update the first post in a moment.


Is this a group of 8 players each getting one of the PCs? Or is it a smaller number of players and there will be PCs left unpicked. Because I can see a huge issue if someone gets stuck with a PC they feel is lame just because that is the only one left in the group.

Also, do you know enough about the other players to anticipate the type of characters they are likely going to find interesting?

Additionally, please define 'spellcaster' in the context of the one character allowed to the party. Does this just mean a full-caster like Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid & Cleric? Or are Paladins, Rangers, Bards and such impacted as well? This isn't happing for a while as there isn't enough players at the time, but the plan is that 5 of the 8 will be taken by players and the remaining 3 will be played by the DM. I don't have a good handle on what one of them likes, but the other I know likes having multiple options(they tend to pick casters, but were enamored with PoW for the short time it was allowed.) Any class that can cast magic, so yes even partial casters, but from the given guidelines I have, it seems it's an arcane caster.

[QuadraticGish]

Use a standard set of pregens like this one: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?509831-All-the-Free-(on-paizo-site)-Pathfinder-Society-Pre-generated-Characters-in-one-PDF

It's not certain but you're more likely that the players will be of similar power level that way. Maybe not as strong as you like, but hopefully close to each other which is what's most important. For more daka you can always give them nifty items and so on as you play.I'm not the DM, so I can't do the latter. Plus, he asked me to build them up since he trusts me. Also I think it's a fun task. The OP was changed to include the guidelines for each character.

[Palanan]

Did the DM give you any guidance on how to generate stats? Is this point buy, 4d6, or some other method?

Also, I'm guessing no PoW material?

[Mehangel]

Since SoM is allowed, i just wanted to point out that the spheres of power wiki has a number of interesting level 1 SoM characters pregenerated.

[zlefin]

I'd consider using SoM for everything but the caster. iirc spheres is fairly well balanced, and then you won't have a disparity that might occur with the spheres classes being better than the base games' martial classes.

[Palanan]

Again, how are we generating stats?



Also:


Originally Posted by QuadraticGish
...he has asked me to build the 8 characters following his role guideline for each character.

Maybe it's my math skills, but I'm only counting seven character stubs in your OP.

.

[QuadraticGish]

Again, how are we generating stats?



Also:



Maybe it's my math skills, but I'm only counting seven character stubs in your OP.

.

20 point buy and good catch. It should be fixed now.

[LuminousWarrior]

Flavour-wise, I would suggest not using wizard for the spellcaster. Instead, consider the Psychic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/) from Occult Adventures. It plays like an Int-based variation on the Sorcerer, and has a more subtle form of magic that meshes well with low-fantasy.

Psychics also have Disciplines (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/), thier version of a Sorcerer's Bloodline, which determines the exact source of thier powers and how they access it. For the flavour you seem to be going for, I would suggest something like the Abomination (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/abomination/) Discipline. This represents that your power comes from some unknown, dangerous force, and that when you use your power you open up your mind to something... other. Other good Disciplines to look into include Dream (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/dream/), you gain power from journeys into the dream world, ala many of Lovecraft's stories such as The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath; Haunted (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/haunted/), you gain your powers from being... haunted; or, if you're looking to retain some amount of that "wizard" feel, Lore (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/lore/), power through study.

Also look into the Psychic Marauder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/archetypes/paizo-llc-psychic-archetypes/psychic-marauder-psychic-archetype/) Archetype. It's an archetype built around the Psychic slowly going insane and gaining strange powers from it to project thier insanity onto reality.

[Mehangel]

AB: Commander
DS: Technician
EV: Conscript
GS: Sentinel
HF: Scholar
HS: Commander
DS: Technician

I would make sure to pick unique Martial Traditions for each character to mitigate overlap.

[LuminousWarrior]

Alchemy isn't magic. Make HF an Alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/) and stack Archetypes to make a healer. Chirurgeon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/chirurgeon) and Wasteland Blighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/wasteland-blighter) make you a decent healer, and if the mutagen ability doesn't sound like it meshes well take the Inspired Chemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/inspired-chemist).

[QuadraticGish]

Flavour-wise, I would suggest not using wizard for the spellcaster. Instead, consider the Psychic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/) from Occult Adventures. It plays like an Int-based variation on the Sorcerer, and has a more subtle form of magic that meshes well with low-fantasy.

Psychics also have Disciplines (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/), thier version of a Sorcerer's Bloodline, which determines the exact source of thier powers and how they access it. For the flavour you seem to be going for, I would suggest something like the Abomination (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/abomination/) Discipline. This represents that your power comes from some unknown, dangerous force, and that when you use your power you open up your mind to something... other. Other good Disciplines to look into include Dream (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/dream/), you gain power from journeys into the dream world, ala many of Lovecraft's stories such as The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath; Haunted (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/haunted/), you gain your powers from being... haunted; or, if you're looking to retain some amount of that "wizard" feel, Lore (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/psychic-disciplines/psychic-disciplines-paizo-inc/lore/), power through study.

Also look into the Psychic Marauder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic/archetypes/paizo-llc-psychic-archetypes/psychic-marauder-psychic-archetype/) Archetype. It's an archetype built around the Psychic slowly going insane and gaining strange powers from it to project thier insanity onto reality.
I'm not sure how'd he like it. I'll float the psychic stuff by him when he figures out if he wants to have his own rules on how magic works.


AB: Commander
DS: Technician
EV: Conscript
GS: Sentinel
HF: Scholar
HS: Commander
DS: Technician

I would make sure to pick unique Martial Traditions for each character to mitigate overlap.
I got permission to build a unique tradition for each one, so that's not a worry. I'm not sure he'd allow for technician since I'm completely unaware of the technology level. Firearms don't exist period in the setting.


Alchemy isn't magic. Make HF an Alchemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/) and stack Archetypes to make a healer. Chirurgeon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/chirurgeon) and Wasteland Blighter (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/wasteland-blighter) make you a decent healer, and if the mutagen ability doesn't sound like it meshes well take the Inspired Chemist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/Alchemist/archetypes/paizo-alchemist-archetypes/inspired-chemist).
When an alchemist mixes an extract, he infuses the chemicals and reagents in the extract with magic siphoned from his own magical aura. I'm pretty sure it is on a technical level from the description. The DM dislikes magic as a whole in 3.x/PF, so I'm trying not to tread on any lines. How about the Scholar's (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/scholar) Doctor archetype? I feel it may better represent the mundane medicine aspect.

[Mehangel]

I got permission to build a unique tradition for each one, so that's not a worry. I'm not sure he'd allow for technician since I'm completely unaware of the technology level. Firearms don't exist period in the setting.

Technicians don't need to use firearms, you can improve bows or crossbows (or avoid improving weapons altogether and instead improve other equipment).

[LuminousWarrior]

I'm not sure how'd he like it. I'll float the psychic stuff by him when he figures out if he wants to have his own rules on how magic works.

If Oracle or Sorcerer are on the table, the Psychic is pretty much the same thing. Of course, it's not for everyone. If you want a little bit of the flavour, but don't want to go all the way, there's always the Psychic Sorcerer Bloodline (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/psychic-sorcerer-bloodline/).


I'm pretty sure it is on a technical level from the description. The DM dislikes magic as a whole in 3.x/PF, so I'm trying not to tread on any lines. How about the Scholar's (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/scholar) Doctor archetype? I feel it may better represent the mundane medicine aspect.

Okay, so I haven't actually read Spheres of Might, so I didn't feel that I was in a position to suggest anything from it. But, upon seeing this, I think I might want to test it out. This is definitely a better choice than what I was suggesting.

[Elkad]

I wouldn't assign personalities. Getting handed a pile of stats doesn't bother me. Having someone else decide my personality and motivations does.

At most, I'd throw some personalities in a separate hat and let the players pick independent of the character - and I'd still let them swap among themselves or have a redraw.

Why can't the drunk be the doctor, or the scout? Or even the commander, who stays straight on duty, and every night drinks away the years of pain from watching his men die (sometimes at his orders).

Same with every other personality. The commander could have recently earned a battlefield promotion, when he didn't even understand why his orders worked, leaving him nervous and insecure.

[QuadraticGish]

I wouldn't assign personalities. Getting handed a pile of stats doesn't bother me. Having someone else decide my personality and motivations does.

At most, I'd throw some personalities in a separate hat and let the players pick independent of the character - and I'd still let them swap among themselves or have a redraw.

Why can't the drunk be the doctor, or the scout? Or even the commander, who stays straight on duty, and every night drinks away the years of pain from watching his men die (sometimes at his orders).

Same with every other personality. The commander could have recently earned a battlefield promotion, when he didn't even understand why his orders worked, leaving him nervous and insecure.
I wouldn't either, but that's what's the DM is doing. At least he's leaving their growth and development in hands of the players.

[Mehangel]

On the plus side, if you decide to roll up your own SoM characters, there is a character creation event happening on the spheres wiki right now for which you can submit your rolled up characters.

[Quertus]

Pregenerated characters, pregenerated personalities, GM doesn't like tech or magic, and may well be redoing the magic system? Any more red flags you'd like to tell us about?

[QuadraticGish]

Pregenerated characters, pregenerated personalities, GM doesn't like tech or magic, and may well be redoing the magic system? Any more red flags you'd like to tell us about?
I didn't mean redoing it, but I think he's planning on tacking extra rules to it. Hence why I'd like to try to persuade him to use SoP's magic instead since it would be a lot harder to make it unplayable by accident. He dislikes the damage potential that PoW brought when I introduced it. He's not a terrible person by any means, but he's not a fan of PF to begin with. 5e and 2e is more of his speed honestly, but the rest of us got bored with the former after a few sessions of trying it and he hasn't tried bringing us to the latter at all despite liking it a lot himself. Though I'd like to know if 2e has a high degree of customization somewhat comparable to 3.x/PF like he claims.

[Prime32]

If you want a low-magic mage type: Unchained Rogue (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/unchained-classes/rogue-unchained/) with the Counterfeit Mage (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/counterfeit-mage/) and Eldritch Scoundrel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-archetypes/eldritch-scoundrel-rogue/) archetypes.

That gets you:

Up to 6th-level spells, which are learned and prepared as a wizard
Knowledge of lots of obscure skills, and can eventually unlock new uses for them.
The ability to sense and unweave magical wards (but not mundane traps)
Can use wands and scrolls very well (which allow for stronger magical effects to be doled out by the GM on a limited basis). May be called upon to use healing items on their allies.
Not completely defenseless without their magic, which seems appropriate for a mercenary group. While they don't have the fighting instincts or damage output of a standard rogue, they can still whack enemies in the eyes to help their allies get another blow in.
At 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th levels, can train in a signature spell - either a low-level one that they can cast many times per day (Major Magic talent), or a unique spell that either has a continuous effect or can be cast spontaneously (modified ninja tricks). Plus some other options like Dispelling Attack. They can take a feat to learn more of these.


If you want some more low-fantasy wizard abilities, trade Skilled for Fey Magic (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/human/) and pick up some utility SLAs like nature's paths (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/n/nature-s-paths) or read weather (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/read-weather).

[Quertus]

Though I'd like to know if 2e has a high degree of customization somewhat comparable to 3.x/PF like he claims.

2e is my personal favorite system. What can I tell you? Hmmm... The character creation minigame in 2e is almost nonexistent. You can:

A) pick your class. Done. Fighter 1, Fighter 20.

B) pick your class and kit. Done. Fighter Gladiator 1, Fighter Gladiator 20.

B2) pick your class, kit, and faction, done. Fighter Gladiator Mercy Killer 1, Fighter Gladiator Mercy Killer 20.

B3) choose your faction someone after character creation. Fighter 1, Fighter Mercy Killer 20.

C) use the Skills & Powers line to pretend that you're playing a point-buy system. Kinda like a Fighter, but I traded away my ability to wear armor for Detect Magic and Find/Remove Traps.

D) use the DMG to create custom classes whole-cloth. I get d8 HP, Chronomancer spells, and an assortment of Thief skills.

E) be human, have insane stats, and change careers ("duel class"). Fighter 1, Fighter 7 + Wizard 20.

E2) be nonhuman, and advance multiple classes at once ("multiclass"). Fighter 1 + Wizard 1, Fighter 20* + Wizard 20*.

Characters in 2e are pretty much never in a "balanced" party, but that imbalance is never as bad as it could be in 3e. Also, it's part of the charm.

So, if you want simple character creation, 2e's got it. If you want complex character creation, 2e's got it. If you want complex "level 1-20" builds... Um... Be human, with insane stats, and duel class a lot?

* Or less, if he plays by RAW, with racial level limits.