I could use some help optimizing a Ranger.

[Daghoulish]

So, I had a horrible idea and I wanted to see just how bad the PHB Beastmaster ranger really is. The best way to do this is obviously by playing this at the local AL tables. So, I want to try and make this work and could use some more experienced peoples opinion to make it not be terrible.

I want them to be a melee ranger, maybe even small sized to ride the animal although this is optional and just something I think I would enjoy. So far this is what I've got.

Dragonborn *Edit Stats were changed.*-**Edited again, because the beastmaster doesn't suck enough, everyone needs to rule's lawer against it too**-*AL allows point buy, who knew*-*wizards, stop hating Rangers*
14+2=16 Str, 13 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 14 Wis, 9+1=10 Chr.

Fighter 1/Ranger12/Fighter2/Ranger16/Fighter4-I think this is the level progrestion I plan to follow. Getting action surge after 11 lets me do 6 attacks in one turn (2 from me and 4 from my pet).

Fighting Style- Protection, Dueling
Pet- Giant Poisonous Snake, I was going to get it studded leather barding which should bring it up to 18-22 ac, not perfect but with 10 foot reach I'd like to think I can keep it out of the death zone too often.
My ASI and Feats are looking like- Warcaster,Con+2,Str+2,Con+2, then a feat or another ASI. I'm undecided on what to use my last ASI for. Ideas more than welcome. (Screw you Wizards, I'm doing it anyway.)

Alright got a slightly better plan now. Going to go warhammer/longsword/battleaxe with heavy armor and shield. I'm going to stay in front of my pet and use protection to keep it or my allies safer. Starting as a fighter for heavy armor and will probably get a second level at 13 for action surge. Then I could attack 6 times in a single turn, 2 times from me and 4 times for my pet. At level 4 the snake would be doing more than me on average so beast bonding and staying in front of it to give it perpetual advantage and using protection I could give attackers against it disadvantage. Anything anyone else wants to add? I could still get Hail of Thorns too, I would just have to use it with Javelins instead of bows. Which I guess isn't as good but as I want to be on the front line I don't think it'll make to big a difference.

*Also, I love the ideas about dual wielding lances and it sounds like a really fun build. However this character is to see how bad the beastmaster is while using it as intended. Meaning the pet attacks and so do I, even if it's not the most optimal. I'm just trying to make this unoptimal thing the best it can be while keeping the spirit of the subclass alive.*

[NaughtyTiger]

low wisdom means debuff spells are out.

cure wounds for mr snakey.
fog cloud (blindsense gives advantage, cloud gives disad against the snake)
jump

silence shuts down casters better than counterspell
protection from poison/lesser restoration

plant growth - no concentration

also consider flying snake (ignores difficult terrain, hides in trousers, and flyby)

[Crgaston]

Spike Growth is an excellent battlefield control spell that doesn’t depend on wisdom. Darkvision might come in handy on a Halfling.

Also, you might wish to consider switching your Cha and Wis stats and picking up Observant or Resilient Wis if you make it to L12. Unless you have other plans for that 13 Cha (like green dragon sorcerer. Then you’d both be scaly).

Edit:
Oh, but that doesn’t work because you need 13 Wis to mc out of Ranger.

[McSkrag]

The thing about Beastmasters is their beasts compete for their actions and bonus action. So your tactics at before level 5 revolve whether you OR your beast should attack. Then after level 5 you're splitting your 2x attacks with your beast.

The advantage is beasts have some cool abilities and act as an extension of your character.

You're probably better off taking dueling and using a rapier+shield. That will give you a better AC, 2x 1d8 + DEX attacks at 5th, and free up your bonus action for spells and telling your beast what to do.

For your stats, I would bump WIS to 14 and then put the extra 4 pts in STR, INT, or CHA:

Stout Halfling
10 Str, 14+2=16 Dex, 15+1=16 Con, 8 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Chr.

Not sure how far you're taking this character but a few levels of Rogue after you get Ranger extra attack would give you some extra damage and versatility.

Useful spells: Beast Bond will give your beast advantage on attacks, Hunters Mark gives you extra damage, Hail of Thorns and Spike Growth for crowd control, Pass without Trace for sneaking the party past the all liches.

[Daghoulish]

low wisdom means debuff spells are out.

-Spell Choices-

also consider flying snake (ignores difficult terrain, hides in trousers, and flyby)

Yeah, the Wis is kind of a problem. Maybe I should change it to be better. Also, didn't know that flying snakes got flyby attack. That's pretty cool and something to consider.


Spike Growth is an excellent battlefield control spell that doesn’t depend on wisdom. Darkvision might come in handy on a Halfling.

Also, you might wish to consider switching your Cha and Wis stats and picking up Observant or Resilient Wis if you make it to L12. Unless you have other plans for that 13 Cha (like green dragon sorcerer. Then you’d both be scaly).

Edit:
Oh, but that doesn’t work because you need 13 Wis to mc out of Ranger.

I never realized you needed the stats to multiclass out of a class. No, I didn't have a plan for the Chr, just don't like odd numbers in my main stats.


-snip-

You're probably better off taking dueling and using a rapier+shield. That will give you a better AC, 2x 1d8 + DEX attacks at 5th, and free up your bonus action for spells and telling your beast what to do.

For your stats, I would bump WIS to 14 and then put the extra 4 pts in STR, INT, or CHA:

Stout Halfling
10 Str, 14+2=16 Dex, 15+1=16 Con, 8 Int, 14 Wis, 10 Chr.

Not sure how far you're taking this character but a few levels of Rogue after you get Ranger extra attack would give you some extra damage and versatility.

Useful spells: Beast Bond will give your beast advantage on attacks, Hunters Mark gives you extra damage, Hail of Thorns and Spike Growth for crowd control, Pass without Trace for sneaking the party past the all liches.

I could see taking a few level of something else but I would much rather mostly be ranger, as I'm testing how the Beastmaster Ranger is. Your stat spread, while good, is also not standard array so I can't use it. Also, as good as sword and boarding it up sounds it kinda ruins what I'm doing. I'm testing out how the beast master is and that means my beast is attacking. Not just me attacking then telling it to dodge. Which means I can't use my bonus action to tell it to do anything and that frees it up for two weapon fighting. So that's my reason for going two weapon.

After all of this, what if I changed the stats like this.
10 Str, 14+2=16 Dex, 13+1=14 Con, 8 Int, 15 Wis, 12 Chr.
My Con goes down by a point but my Wis goes up by a point and would be pretty easy to bring up again. Thank you all for the spell choices, I will keep them in mind while choosing my depressingly short list of know spells.

[Rixitichil]

Your other options include a Pterasaur for flying Cavalry or a Giant Crab for the grab, which makes a half decent tank.
A Lance might work on the former character, especially with the Pterasaur' flyby.

[Louro]

By RAW duel wielding is not compatible with Beastmaster, care with that.
Zephyr strike (xanathar) is a great spell if you are going melee.
Being melee you can position the snake behind you (+2 AC) and get two OA if enemy runs away.

[Daghoulish]

By RAW duel wielding is not compatible with Beastmaster, care with that.
Zephyr strike (xanathar) is a great spell if you are going melee.
Being melee you can position the snake behind you (+2 AC) and get two OA if enemy runs away.

Are you serious? at 5th level I can make an attack and then my pet can make an attack. Are you telling me that even though I swing I can't take a second swing, which is the entire point of two weapon fighting.

[rbstr]

You use your action to command the beast, you don't actually take the attack action, which is required for TWF.
But I think plenty of people would let you TWF anyway.

For spells: Absorb Elements is great utility though the game. Healing Spirit could be very helpful to keep your beasty up. Spike Growth can be really good.
I really like the Ranger AOE spells like Hail of Thorns and Lightning arrow, but your wis is pretty dang low, you might not find those stick very well.

[Kadesh]

Dual wield Lances for fun and profit.

[Daghoulish]

You use your action to command the beast, you don't actually take the attack action, which is required for TWF.
But I think plenty of people would let you TWF anyway.

For spells: Absorb Elements is great utility though the game. Healing Spirit could be very helpful to keep your beasty up. Spike Growth can be really good.
I really like the Ranger AOE spells like Hail of Thorns and Lightning arrow, but your wis is pretty dang low, you might not find those stick very well.

I mean, the book makes it sound like I can.
"Once you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make one attack yourself and you can command the beast to take an Attack action."
"Two-Weapon Fighting: When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. (PHB, p. 195)"
I am indeed taking the attack action and attacking with my weapon. One of my uses of the action is being used to command my pet but otherwise I fit the description. Pre 5th and extra attack? No, I don't think I can two weapon fight by raw after having my pet attack.

[Kadesh]

It is badly written enough that you are not strictly taking the attack action. You are using your action to order the beast to attack and make an attack yourself. They are correct, unfortunately.

[rbstr]

I am indeed taking the attack action and attacking with my weapon. One of my uses of the action is being used to command my pet but otherwise I fit the description. Pre 5th and extra attack? No, I don't think I can two weapon fight by raw after having my pet attack.

Making an Attack and using the Attack Action are different things. Several actions let you make an attack but are not the Attack Action. Like, you make an Attack as part of Green Flame Blade but not taking the Attack Action so Extra Attack and TWF doesn't apply.

Also, your rules quote on the command is not the actual text (as I have it):

You can use your action to verbally command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, or Help action. Once you have the Extra Attack feature,you can make one weapon attack yourself when you command the beast to take the Attack action.
Which makes it more clear you're not actually taking the Attack Action. You're doing the verbal command thing but you also get to make an attack.

[Louro]

I would let any Beastmaster take the bonus attack. I think it's pretty stupid your archetype not being compatible with one of your basic skills, but I'm a very lenient DM.

[NaughtyTiger]

1) healing spirit is stupid broken. i explicitly didn't mention it, cuz no.
2) crossbow expert, twf, polearm master are out by RAW (i just learned hat a week ago), but i have never had any DM say no.
3) i tend to rule against riding your flying pet... cuz it is hard enough to fly.

[djreynolds]

Get a polearm and grab sentinel, let the DM attack your beast, grab a reaction attack.

When it dies... find a new beast.

Rinse and repeat.

Try out new beasts.

[ATHATH]

Be a small race and ride a Pteranodon for 60 ft. flight with Flyby (remember that movement that you don't perform under your own power doesn't provoke AoOs) at level 3. Since you're riding it, it may or may not use the mounted combat action rules instead of the Beastmaster ones; it doesn't really matter too much for our purposes. Take Mounted Combatant, Dual Wielder, Sharpshooter, or Crossbow Expert at level 4, depending on your priorities. Don't ever use your beast's attack; instead, just (dual) wield lances or crossbows (depends on what feats you have and whether or not you want to (ab)use the Ranger's ranged combat spells).

You should probably multiclass out of Ranger at some point; after 5th level, you don't really get much that's worth it other than higher level Ranger spells (mm, Swift Quiver) and extra HP for your mount (which was terrible anyway; plus, this is somewhat mitigated by Mounted Combatant). I dunno WHAT you'd multiclass into, though. Something that gives you something to do with your reaction? Rogue for the Sneak Attack dice (your companion can count as an ally adjacent to an enemy, right?)? Maybe Arcane Trickster would work, as it can pick up Shield or something. Eldritch Knight could also work, giving you extra ASIs, Shield, and Action Surge.

[Daghoulish]

Edited the first post and made some serious changes, if you let could let me know about anything else that would be fantastic. Also thank you everyone for showing me the true power of rule lawyers, to destroy the beastmaster even more.(I'm kidding, it sucks but it's been making me laugh)

[Crgaston]

I see your rebuild. Looks good, but...

Are you opposed to darkvision for some reason? :)

For a Strength Ranger, Mountain Dwarf would let you point buy 16/10/16/10/14/10.
Or 17/10/17/8/14/8 if you were so inclined.

Starting with 1 level of Fighter would let you take Protection FS (which would give you a use for your reaction, imposing disadvantage on an attack on your snake) and then pick up Dueling from Ranger for the +2 damage.


The Sentinel feat would give you a second option for your reaction. Having protection and Sentinel both will seriously disencentivise attacks on your snake, but you’ll be tough and hard to hit as well.

I applaud your goal, and hope you give us updates as to how it goes.

[Daghoulish]

I see your rebuild. Looks good, but...

Are you opposed to darkvision for some reason? :)

For a Strength Ranger, Mountain Dwarf would let you point buy 16/10/16/10/14/10.
Or 17/10/17/8/14/8 if you were so inclined.

Starting with 1 level of Fighter would let you take Protection FS (which would give you a use for your reaction, imposing disadvantage on an attack on your snake) and then pick up Dueling from Ranger for the +2 damage.


The Sentinel feat would give you a second option for your reaction. Having protection and Sentinel both will seriously disencentivise attacks on your snake, but you’ll be tough and hard to hit as well.

I applaud your goal, and hope you give us updates as to how it goes.

Hey, thank you for the advice and no I don't have anything against darkvision (beyond everyone and their grandma having it), I just prefer not playing standard races. If volo's was allowed I'd probably play a Lizardfolk, but I want spells from Xanathar's so that race is out. Making Dragonborn my go to PHB race, I only choose halfling before because it would allow me to ride the pet and they seemed to have good stats for a two weapon fighting dex Ranger. All that went out the window though, leaving me with Dragonborn as a race I actually like. Adding the sentinal feat sounds like fun, it would fight for my reaction with Protection style but it would give me more options to help the snake so I will certainly keep it in mind.

I would be more than willing to let you know but I can only make 1 of the two days it runs at the store, so it might be a couple of months before I get to a decent level. Getting to 4 and getting my snake is probably quite a bit sooner so I could regale the forums about how the first adventure with my pet snake goes, and if I could keep him alive effectively.

I was also going to make him a green dragonborn (doubling down on that poison) and he was going to relate and enjoy this fellow green scaled reptile that also has poison. I found the interaction very cute and funny, the fact that in the dark the snake has blindsight and would be his eyes sounds like a fun and cool roleplay mechanic.

[th3g0dc0mp13x]

Dragonborn *Edit Stats were changed.*-**Edited again, because the beastmaster doesn't suck enough, everyone needs to rule's lawer against it too**-*AL allows point buy, who knew*
14+2=16 Str, 8 Dex, 15 Con, 8 Int, 15 Wis, 9+1=10 Chr.

Fighter 1/RangerX-I could easily see 16Ranger/4Fighter at the end of the day but that's a long time away, any subclass reccomendations?



You require a minimum of 13 in wisdom and dexterity to multiclass into or out of ranger.

Personally I'd go with Wood Elf: 8, 14+2, 14, 8, 13+1, 8 With 8 points to drop somewhere.

[Daghoulish]

You require a minimum of 13 in wisdom and dexterity to multiclass into or out of ranger.

Personally I'd go with Wood Elf: 8, 14+2, 14, 8, 13+1, 8 With 8 points to drop somewhere.

I hate you (I don't, thank you for the advice.). I really hate that the ranger has a dex and wis condition for ranger multiclass. Why can't they have a dex or str and wis requirement. It is absolutely terrible that you can't have a strength based ranger without being screwed over. Why wizards, I don't want to be Elf #10000, let me be Aragorn and use a greatsword. Fine, screw it Boring old DEX it is. But I'm still being a dragonborn, Elves can go suck the root. Then again, I might like elves more then.(Blatant hatred of all Elves in any setting, ever)

I realized I really didn't want to do dex and went Str after a little more thought.

[th3g0dc0mp13x]

I hate you (I don't, thank you for the advice.). I really hate that the ranger has a dex and wis condition for ranger multiclass. Why can't they have a dex or str and wis requirement. It is absolutely terrible that you can't have a strength based ranger without being screwed over. Why wizards, I don't want to be Elf #10000, let me be Aragorn and use a greatsword. Fine, screw it Boring old DEX it is. But I'm still being a dragonborn, Elves can go suck the root. Then again, I might like elves more then.(Blatant hatred of all Elves in any setting ever)

I feel the same way about the monk MC lol.

For sheer fun...
Stout Halfling Riding it's mount.
8,14+2,13+1,10,14,10
Use a whip and rip people apart.