Support Theif

[Teaguethebean]

I am making a character for an upcoming campaign who is a thief rogue for the fast hands but is based around support with healers kits, ball bearings, oil etc. He is a V human for the healer feat at level one any other suggestions to make him better as a utility belt for the team. I understand mastermind is also good but I really wanna be based on these items. Any tips

[stoutstien]

What content is allowed? What lv range is the campaign shooting for

[Kadesh]

I am making a character for an upcoming campaign who is a thief rogue for the fast hands but is based around support with healers kits, ball bearings, oil etc. He is a V human for the healer feat at level one any other suggestions to make him better as a utility belt for the team. I understand mastermind is also good but I really wanna be based on these items. Any tips

It seems like you have the basics. A source of darkvision is pretty much required - either paying a friendly caster for a Casting of Darkvision (500gp for a Pearl of Power) or multiclassing into Wizard 3 for it is rather helpful. Otherwise, you are either making yourself unable to hide with a Torch, or Blinded. Another alternative is Warlock 2, which gives you potential for Detect Magic, or the ability to not Sleep, and if you take it to 3rd, you can instead take Book of Shadows for Ritual Detect Magic, Find Familiar, etc that can all assist in scouting. And then taking the rest in Rogue is going to do alright.

[Rixitichil]

I've played a Mountain Dwarf variant of this build. I found setting Hunter's traps also worthwhile, especially if someone else in the party had forced movement. Throwing and placing light or smokesticks about the battlefield can be useful. A bag of flour can help track invisible Foes.
Poisoning the blades of your allies might be an option.
Check if any of your allies have Catapult on their spell list. A lot of the items that are for that spell are also good for you to use or place.

[Corran]

Dousing the tip of your arrows/bolts with oil and then lighting them perhaps, for some extra fire damage?

[sophontteks]

Agreed, V. Human is going to screw you. Hard to hide when you need a torch.

[JellyPooga]

Agreed, V. Human is going to screw you. Hard to hide when you need a torch.

I disagree. As a support Rogue, hiding is not a priority. For an assassin or scout, yes, darkvision is a nice add (if not actually essential), but for the role the OP is going for it's far from necessary.

Thief Rogue is IMO the best support Rogue; better than Mastermind, because the latter needs to use his bonus action every turn to help one ally, while the Thief uses his bonus action once and typically that will help multiple allies or hinder multiple foes with no furthsr input. Creating difficult terrain or obscurement with Fast Hands is my favourite trick; toppling furniture, extiguishing/lighting lights, creating smoke, shutting doors and so forth...all good stuff.

[sophontteks]

I consider scouting a form of support. Thats the big loss. Can't scout ahead. I've seen many rogues go V.human. They start to scout ahead. DM asks their light source, and then they realize. They screwed themselves.

Its not nessesary, but best to let a player know before they realize it mid game.

[ATHATH]

You could use Goggles of Night, which can give you Darkvision without requiring attunement.

[Kadesh]

I disagree. As a support Rogue, hiding is not a priority. For an assassin or scout, yes, darkvision is a nice add (if not actually essential), but for the role the OP is going for it's far from necessary.
The hiding is more necessary to help you spot without being spotted, and bringing that info back, which is supporting the party and stopping them from taking the damage you're then later healing the party with (at a cost, and often far less effectively).

Warlock 2
- Either Telepathy for silent passing of information, or Temp HP to protect you from Traps (don't go to Thailand), get Spare the Dying and the ability to not be attacked by low level Undead, +Prof to Damage against a target with potential healing, Critting on a 19-20, Prof with Martial Weapons, and Shields for additional AC when you're messing around with a trap (Cha to damage may be less effective though)
- Devil's Sight (120ft Vision, can see as if it were Daylight, so no penalty for using the eyes in the dark), Detect Magic at Will, Aspect of the Moon for being able to stay on watch all night, Disguise Self
- Blade Ward - protect self before attempting to play around with a trap as a bonus action
- Mage Hand - opening doors and chests from a distance so you're not worried about an explosion as large as a Fireball catching you or your party.
- Create Bonfire - for light
- Hex - no save targeting a creatures ability checks, helping your allies if they rely on Grappling, Insight,

Warlock 3
- As above
- Gift of the Ever Living Ones (spells and effects used to heal you are more efficient), Book of Shadows (Spare the Dying, Guidance, Dancing Lights, Light, Mending, Message, Resistance, Produce Flame, Thorn Whip to pull allies out of the way)
- Useful Rituals; Alarm, Animal Messenger, Augury, Beast Sense, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Detect Poison and Disease, Find Familiar, Gentle Repose, Identify, Illusory Script, Locate Animals or Plants, Magic Mouth, Purify Food and Drink, Speak with Animals, Tenser's Floating Disk, Unseen Servant, Ceremony, Skywrite)

Wizard 3
- Darkvision spell
- Many, many useful ones, like Shield and Absorb Elements; ritual spell list is less expansive


Thief Rogue is IMO the best support Rogue; better than Mastermind, because the latter needs to use his bonus action every turn to help one ally, while the Thief uses his bonus action once and typically that will help multiple allies or hinder multiple foes with no furthsr input. Creating difficult terrain or obscurement with Fast Hands is my favourite trick; toppling furniture, extiguishing/lighting lights, creating smoke, shutting doors and so forth...all good stuff.
They both do different things and can assist in different situations. A Mastermind is more capable in social situations.

[djreynolds]

Nothing resists sneak attack damage.
Landing your sneak attack is key.

The mobile feat really opens it up for rogues so they disengage without a BA and save that BA for other stuff. Some may say no, but I like the feat.

Stab, run to a friend without needing to disengage and use BA to heal.... mobile allows this.

I'm assuming dex based rogue, max sure you have a short bow and plenty of daggers.

But remember your sneak attack is key... IMO more important than skills and scouting.

Others can scout, a wizard with invisibility can cover down effectively at times. When there's a dragon... now it's your job.

I would take the mobile feat first, it will open up cunning action and allow you to melee when needed and perhaps use that BA for an offhand attack if needed or to heal.

Who else is in the party? Buy the wizard the darkvision spell scroll, it's good for 8 hours.

Good luck

[JellyPooga]

The hiding is more necessary to help you spot without being spotted, and bringing that info back, which is supporting the party

I'll point out that this is a scout role more than support and nothing says a Rogue must be a scout. Yes, they make good scouts if and only if they take Stealth and Perception Expertise, but nothing pidgeon-holes Rogues into that role except expectations. Rogues make good scholars, athletes, socialites and more to boot, if they take appropriate skills and feats. As a support Rogue, you don't need to be a scout and as such have no requirement to be any more independant of light than any other party member. If you're not going off solo, you can be as reliant on the parties light as the Fighter or Wizard.

[Derpldorf]

Take the Tavern Brawler feat and you'll gain proficiency with Improvised Weapons. Potions, poisons alchemical items and anything else you could conceivably chuck at something count as improvised throwing weapons that key off strength.

Spend your downtime learning the Alchemist, Herbalist and Poisoners kits. You can spend your downtime crafting necessary supplies and sundries, this is especially useful for races with a reduced need for rest as you can spend more of your rest time crafting.

[R.Shackleford]

I am making a character for an upcoming campaign who is a thief rogue for the fast hands but is based around support with healers kits, ball bearings, oil etc. He is a V human for the healer feat at level one any other suggestions to make him better as a utility belt for the team. I understand mastermind is also good but I really wanna be based on these items. Any tips

I know this will sound silly, but ask your DM which items can be used with "use an object" action. Some DMs have been known to not allow it to work with anything that attacks or deals damage, leaving it for things like opening doors or passing items or whatever.

I would definitely go Mastermind Rogue. Use your action to use an item or to heal with a healer kit. Then you can use your bonus action to help with an attack. But really, mastermind allows you to do something awesome and you won't have to keep track of items.

Roleplay that bonus action to your heart's content. Just roleplay it as throwing ball bearings, spitting at an enemy, cussing the enemy out, or throwing a stink bomb (not a very potent one tho).

What's great is you can still use your action for using items OR to use the help action on a different creature. Heck, you could use your bonus action to help against a creature and then use your action to ready a second help for after said creature is hit by a weapon attack.

I forget if this was my idea, or my friend's, but one of my favorite uses of the MM bonus action help is to attempt to spit in the mouth of enemies. Yup.

What's more is the bonus action help is guaranteed to work, unlike many items that need rolls.

Anyways... The mastermind does another thing amazingly well. It's great support for out of combat too. The thief is fine... But the mastermind has so many applications for roleplaying.

If I could, I would take the Mastermind subclass and put it on any other class to make that other class better (expertise at 6th level for classes like fighter, barbarian, monk, and the rest that go the 3, 6, 9-11 progression).

So, what I would do is...

Tiefling Rogue (Mastermind @3) (Criminal Skills but Acolyte Background feature)
Level 1

Grew up in the church, wasn't really interested in the religion... But kept his contacts and still throws money that way. He does like helping others, just doesn't think that religion is the way to go. The character was framed for a crime he didn't actually commit (he's done other shady things for the church though) so he had to leave the church.

Enchanting Spells Racial Traits

Str: 8
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 14

Skills: Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Insight (Expertise), Perception (Expertise), Deception, and Persuasion

ASI: 4th (Healer), 8th (moderately armored), then boost Cha.

You can drop Int a bit and boost str to 10 in order to carry more stuff.


Edit: You could also take Inspiring Leader feat at some point.