[PF] Free Speed Weapon Attack?

[Tsunamiatunzen1]

I'm making a character that uses various shuriken as the main mode of attack.
My question is this:
If I put a Speed enchantment on the shuriken, does it require me to throw multiple Speed shuriken to gain its benefit?
(For the sake of this argument, let's just say I have an unlimited number of whatever shuriken I throw).

The situations seem to be as follows for a character with BAB +6/+1:
1. Throws 2 Speed shuriken and can now throw another Speed shuriken.
2. Throws 1 Speed shuriken, 1 flaming shuriken, and may now throw another Speed shuriken.
3. Throws 2 flaming shuriken and throws a Speed shuriken.

This could be extended to two-weapon fighting with only 1 speed weapon. Could you swing with your other weapon a bunch of times and then bring in the Speed weapon attack?

[Yanisa]

By RAW this is impossible, as shurikens are (treated as) ammunition and the speed enchantment can only be placed on weapons.

If you want a personal opinion (and your GM allows this), I think option 3 makes the most sense. You can the throw the speed shuriken as an extra attack, like a quickened spell. Personally I would also limited it to 1 per full attack to prevent endless spamming speed shurikens shenanigans. (Say that three times fast)

(As for the two-weapon fighting point. You cannot mix attacks, so if you normally have 2 attacks with both weapons and enchant only 1, you can attack 3 times with that weapon, but still 2 times with the other weapon. The actually sequence of attacks isn't specified except it goes from highest to lowest modifier (+7/+7/+7/+2/+2). So you could attack with your speed weapon twice in a row (+7/+7), then twice with your offhand (+7/+2), and finish with the speed weapon(+2), not sure when that matters.)

[Silly Name]

RAW, you can't, since Speed shouldn't be applied on ammunition.

In any case, the Speed enchantment grants you one extra attack with the enchanted weapon itself. If you lose the weapon as part of your first attack, you can't make the extra granted attack.

However, it does mix with Two-Weapon Fighting, and it entitles you to one bonus attack with the enchanted weapon.

[Rainshine]

RAW, none of the above. A speed weapon gives you an extra attack with the speed weapon, and in the case of the shuriken, you just threw it away. Unless you have a weapon/ability that allows you to make a full attack with a single thrown weapon. Also, as per the shuriken text, you treat it like ammunition when crafting, and ammunition isn't eligible for the speed enchantment anyways
For two weapon fighting, I would say a single extra attack with a speed weapon, even if you have more than one -- it does specify it isn't cumulative with similar effects, and another speed enchantment seems like a similar effect.

[Tsunamiatunzen1]

Then this comes as quite confusing:
I've been looking at the chart that details ammunition special qualities but Brilliant Energy is listed under Ammunition Special abilities even though it's description says nothing about ammunition.
Is that not allowed either?

[Silly Name]

If it is in the table, it's allowed. Nothing in the text description mentions ammunition, so you must defer to the table.

[Yanisa]

If it is in the table, it's allowed. Nothing in the text description mentions ammunition, so you must defer to the table.

The table is also a later addition from Ultimate Equipment. In the core rule book nothing except number bonuses and brilliant energy (for some reason) mentions being able to enchant ammunition. Because UE added these ammunition enchantments it gets kinda unclear what you can and cannot enchant and Paizo never rewrote the basic enchantment rules from 3.5...

Besides, even if it's possible, you run into the problem the others pointed out:

If you lose the weapon as part of your first attack, you can't make the extra granted attack.

A speed weapon gives you an extra attack with the speed weapon, and in the case of the shuriken, you just threw it away.

And even if you find a way around that (returning doesn't work), then you run into a another rule problem:

Magic Ammunition and Breakage: When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or is otherwise rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, or bullet that successfully hits a target is automatically destroyed after it delivers its damage.
And shurikens are treated as Ammunition for breakage:

A shuriken is a small piece of metal with sharpened edges, designed for throwing.

Benefit: Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.

So if you hit, the shuriken breaks and the speed enchantment is gone. Only by missing you might be able to get that second attack, 50% of the time. Not worth it.

[Jack_Simth]

In any case, the Speed enchantment grants you one extra attack with the enchanted weapon itself. If you lose the weapon as part of your first attack, you can't make the extra granted attack.

OP is using Path of War material, see An earlier question (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?568413-PF-Solar-Wind-s-Phantom-Sun-Stance-Copies-what)

So in the OP's case, the ammo does not get destroyed, as the real deal never gets thrown, just a copy.

[Yanisa]

OP is using Path of War material, see An earlier question (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?568413-PF-Solar-Wind-s-Phantom-Sun-Stance-Copies-what)

So in the OP's case, the ammo does not get destroyed, as the real deal never gets thrown, just a copy.

To be honest, by RAW it changes nothing. Al it changes is that now the copy is the weapon with the speed enchantment, but the copy runs into exactly the same problems. The copy can't be used to gain the second attack after throwing because you are no longer holding the copy and the copy still gets destroyed when it hits (now by both ammunition rules and stance rules now).

It does safe you the gold you spend on the enchantments on the original shuriken at least.