[FR] Blackguards and evil clerics of Kelemvor

[Ilerien]

So, I'm DMing a 3.5 Forgotten Realms campaign, and it just happens two of the PCs are followers of Kelemvor (both LN clerics). I want to present them with an ally they'll have very mixed feelings about.
Personally, I like the idea of a paladin who became increasingly dissatisfied with protecting weak people from undead and holding funerals. Or maybe he wound up accidentally killing an innocent who registered as undead to his detect undead spell thanks to someone's deception (probably a devil "serving" Kelemvor). So he fell. And then a fiend came and offered him an "atonement". The former paladin's powers returned almost intact, and as he desperately wanted to atone, he justified for himself their "slight" deviation from normal as his deity's divine plan. He still serves Kelemvor and still destroys the undead here and there, but with little to no regards for ordinary people. I.e. he has no problem with threatening a ruler of the village he suspects is a vampire's hunting grounds with his church's wrath if he doesn't cooperate and cheerfully burning down a house where those suspected of being vampires live.

OK, to the point.

Facts:

Forgotten Realms enforce the rule that a divine spellcaster (barring exotic PrCs like Ur-Priest or Blighter who explicitly get divine spells from other sources) must worship a deity to receive their spells;
Kelemvor does have a number of evil clerics as his entry in Faiths & Pantheons indicates.
An evil cleric of a neutral deity gets the ability to channel negative energy, i.e. rebuke/command/bolster undead. Same for blackguards.
His description states: "Clerics of Kelemvor never rebuke or command undead".
The Blackguard class has the following entry in its prerequisites: "The character must have made peaceful contact with an evil outsider who was summoned by him or someone else". It usually gets interpreted as a faustian deal of sorts made by a lesser fiend on behalf of some evil power.
Kelemvor has a pact with devils: they bargain with souls waiting for their gods' representatives (well, some afterlives in FR are worse than D&D Hell), torture the False (those who betrayed their faith) and take part of the Fugue Plane's defence againg raiding demons.


Questions:
Does Kelemvor grant blackguard spells? Or any other neutral deity accepting evil followers for that matter, but let's stick with Kelemvor as the most extreme case.
Do evil clerics of Kelemvor just refrain from channeling (negative) energy altogether? Or do they get to use turn undead somehow?

[hamishspence]

Paladins of Helm exist, despite the fact that Helm has no paladin levels and Deities & Demigods says a deity needs paladin levels to grant paladin spells. Dragon 300 references this, and says

"Your paladin has the same powers as any other paladin. Where they come from is a matter for you and your DM to settle."

Presumably, the same applies to blackguards - if the deity has no blackguard levels, then something else must be the source of blackguard power.

Probably "the cosmic forces of Evil" in the same way that "the cosmic forces of Law and Good" are where a paladin's powers come from, when they don't come from a deity.

As such, I would say that the Blackguard, being not a Cleric, rebukes/commands.

Regarding LE clerics - I think Kelemvor allowing them to Turn/Destroy as a "Specific" overriding the General rule about evil clerics, would make sense - be RAI, even if it's not RAW.

[Ilerien]

Paladins of Helm exist, despite the fact that Helm has no paladin levels and Deities & Demigods says a deity needs paladin levels to grant paladin spells. Dragon 300 references this, and says

"Your paladin has the same powers as any other paladin. Where they come from is a matter for you and your DM to settle."

Presumably, the same applies to blackguards - if the deity has no blackguard levels, then something else must be the source of blackguard power.

Probably "the cosmic forces of Evil" in the same way that "the cosmic forces of Law and Good" are where a paladin's powers come from, when they don't come from a deity.
While it is one more contradicting rule, it's probably not about a deity having levels of any class. Deities & Demigods is a 3.0 and not setting-specific book, so I have a feeling this rule doesn't apply to FR deities who are explicitly the source of all divine magic in the world.

It's basically boils down to one rule-wise question (Kelemvor's clerics explicitly don't channel negative energy, what about evil ones?) and one fluff-wise question (do "good-ish" deities like Kelemvor or Helm who battle forces of evil even have blackguards who are Evil with the capital "E"?).

[hamishspence]

While it is one more contradicting rule, it's probably not about a deity having levels of any class. Deities & Demigods is a 3.0 and not setting-specific book, so I have a feeling this rule doesn't apply to FR deities who are explicitly the source of all divine magic in the world.

Faiths and Pantheons (also 3.0 but setting-specific) has exactly the same text about how deities need paladin levels to grant paladin spells (and druid levels to grant druid spells, and so on).

And a 3.5 FR book (Champions of Ruin) has an undead druid with no deity, who is teaching his followers his "method of drawing upon the divine power of nature, freeing them of the need to call upon a deity for their spells".

Deities are the normal intermediary - - but the power itself may not always reside in a deity.

[Silly Name]

I would take the "clerics of Kelemvor never rebuke or command undead" not as a class limitation, but more of a roleplay thing. Kelemvor hates undead, and thus his clerics are expected to turn and destroy them, not rebuke or command them.

You could still, theoretically, be an Evil cleric of Kelemvor who channels negative energy - it's just that your religion forbids you from using that negative energy to rebuke or command undead (but I am sure you can find ways to channel that energy for other uses).

Anyway, I am not sure Kelemvor would be ok with Blackguards, mostly because as you said he leans on the Good-ish side of Neutral. But if he's ok with Evil clerics, I don't see why he wouldn't allow Blackguards.

Anyway, you might get around the issue by using the Despot variant class found in Dragon Magazine #312: it's a Lawful Evil Paladin with no particular ties to the undead, although it still channels negative energy (although to affect the living).

Another solution could be that the fallen Paladin is fully convinced he is still serving Kelemvor, but in reality his Blackguard powers come from another source.

[hamishspence]

When there's a big mismatch between deity and type power (CG Sune allowing LG paladins, for example) I would guess that the power is coming from "the cosmic forces" - so, a paladin of Sune is tapping into the "cosmic forces of Law and Good" - which is how standard PHB paladins work.

The important question is - what will happen to them in the afterlife? Are they The Faithful, or The False?

If this blackguard whose patron is Kelemvor is very good at following Kelemvor's "destroy the undead" doctrine, and steers clear of major sins - he might be counted as one of the Faithful. Even if the power itself is coming from "the cosmic forces of Evil" or "The devils he made friendly contact with" not Kelemvor.

[gorfnab]

How about just replacing the turn/rebuke undead ability with something else? Cleric and Paladin have a number options for alternate class features that replace turn undead such as Divine Counter Spell (CM 33). A decent list of these alternatives can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444354-3-5-Alternative-Class-Features-(ported-from-Wizards-community-boards)).

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think Kelemvor would provide Blackguard spells no problem, and channeling negative energy is likewise no problem, as long as you don't do it to rebuke or command undead.

Ordained Champion 2 lets you Smite (no alignment restriction) with your turn/rebuke uses, which isn't a bad use, especially if you aren't allowed to rebuke anyway. It's best entered as cleric 4 due to some domain-related cleric-only abilities, but paladin 1/blackguard 10/OC 2 is good for smiting. The OC smite would be exactly as powerful as the blackguard smite, and you'd have a ton of uses, at least 7 + CHA (depending on how that blackguard trade-in works--I could read it as 8 uses for a paladin 1/blackguard 10).

[Ilerien]

Faiths and Pantheons (also 3.0 but setting-specific) has exactly the same text about how deities need paladin levels to grant paladin spells (and druid levels to grant druid spells, and so on). Could you point me to specific page in Faiths and Pantheons , please? It seems very odd taking into account how many non-LG deities have paladins among their worshipers...
And a 3.5 FR book (Champions of Ruin) has an undead druid with no deity, who is teaching his followers his "method of drawing upon the divine power of nature, freeing them of the need to call upon a deity for their spells".Exotic stuff happens. :) I'd think it's just another example of "specific trumps general" rule.
Deities are the normal intermediary - - but the power itself may not always reside in a deity.I see your point. :) It's probably up to any DM to decide, and I'm kinda in doubt. Thank you for a consistent explanation! :)

The important question is - what will happen to them in the afterlife? Are they The Faithful, or The False?Probably they are still the Faithful. Accepting someone as a worshiper (granting that someone spellcasting powers is probably sufficient evidence) and then abandoning a loyal worshiper to the Wall of the Faithless seems irrational. Why would one even worship such an ungrateful deity?

Another solution could be that the fallen Paladin is fully convinced he is still serving Kelemvor, but in reality his Blackguard powers come from another source.I've actually entertained the idea, but then the question becomes moot: Kelemvor won't have anything with such a character's new shiny (or not very shiny :D ) powers.

The average opinion on channeling negative energy in the name of Kelemvor seems the following: such priests just fuel their divine feats/whatever with their rebuke attempts or have ACFs that replace rebuke undead.

Thanks everyone for clarification and bringing up several options I haven't thought of. :)

[ATHATH]

Wait, do deities still need to have Paladin levels to (directly) grant Paladin spells, or was that just a 3.0 thing? It was mentioned in this thread, but I just want to be sure one way or the other.

[hamishspence]

Could you point me to specific page in Faiths and Pantheons , please?

Page 8:

Grant Spells
A deity grants spells and domain powers to mortal divine spellcasters who pray to it. Most deities can grant spells from the cleric spell list, the ranger spell list, and from three or more domains. Deities with levels in the druid class can grant spells from the druid spell list, and deities with paladin levels can grant spells from the paladin spell list.


Wait, do deities still need to have Paladin levels to (directly) grant Paladin spells, or was that just a 3.0 thing?

The SRD includes "updated to 3.5" content from Deities & Demigods. It has exactly the same entry for "Grant Spells" as the 3.0 books do.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#grantSpells

[Luckmann]

Or maybe he wound up accidentally killing an innocent who registered as undead to his detect undead spell thanks to someone's deceptionThis would not be a fallable offense, unless we're talking about a really fundamentalist type of deity, which Kelemvor definitely isn't. Hell, he doesn't even *like* his job, but he does it anyway because he's pragmatic that way.



Does Kelemvor grant blackguard spells? Or any other neutral deity accepting evil followers for that matter, but let's stick with Kelemvor as the most extreme case.Kelemvor absolutely grant evil followers spells. His worshippers are listed as Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, and Lawful Evil. Note that in a lore/fluff sense, anyone can worship any deity, there's nothing stopping someone that is Chaotic Neutral from worshiping Kelemvor. "Worshiper" in this context refers to divine classes such as Paladin, Cleric or, in this case, Blackguards.


Do evil clerics of Kelemvor just refrain from channeling (negative) energy altogether? Or do they get to use turn undead somehow?As far as I'm aware, nothing prevents evil clerics of Kelemvor from channeling negative energy any more than good clerics are prevented from channeling positive energy.

When it comes to neutral deities, (all deities, actually, but especially neutral ones) and especially lawful ones, I would focus less on alignment and more on the dogma, teachings and tenets of the deity and the cult in question. As long as a Paladin or Blackguard carries out the commands of Kelemvor and follows doctrine, Kelemvor is likely fine with you. This also means that it can be hard to fall as a Paladin of Kelemvor (or so I would argue, myself) because Kelemvor doesn't necessarily care, himself, whether you are virtuous or not.

That said, in cases such as this (Paladin of primarily good/evil-indifferent deity) falling, I'd say that the Paladin's self-image and the order he belongs to becomes of paramount importance. He might feel like he has failed as a Paladin, be expelled from the order, and if nothing else, he loses his good-aligned powers because he is no longer Good (which, as a paladin, means basically all of them, prompting the "fall" as a paladin, even if the deity sees no fault).

I'd argue that it's even possible for a Paladin of Kelemvor to "fall" without him considering himself fallen at all, because he is perhaps even *more* pious than any of the clerics, sticking to the ideals of Kelemvor to the letter, to the point of, well, evil, and "blackguard" is simply his class, not his persona.

[hamishspence]

As far as I'm aware, nothing prevents evil clerics of Kelemvor from channeling negative energy any more than good clerics are prevented from channeling positive energy.


There's Faiths & Pantheons fluff about how "clerics of Kelemvor never command or rebuke undead" (which requires the channelling of negative energy) but that may be more a roleplaying limitation than a mechanical one. Possibly, if an evil cleric capable of doing so does so, they may get a message of complaint from Kelemvor - perhaps warning dreams.

That said, I like the interpretation that evil clerics of Kelemvor automatically get Turn Undead instead of Rebuke Undead.

Mostly because OoTS Loki appears to have the reverse "Always Turn Undead Regardless of Alignment" and Kelemvor clerics having "Always Turn Undead Regardless Of Alignment" canonically, would set a precedent for OoTS Loki.

[Luckmann]

Ah, fair point, I did not think of that in terms of turn/rebuke undead.

This is by no means canonical fluff or RAW, but *I* would not consider it positive or negative energy per see, and simply consider it divine force stemming from Kelemvor, and instead of Rebuke, always Turn.

If it becomes a DM issue and argument over RAW, however, it can always be noted that it refers specifically to clerics, not paladins or blackguards. I think it's silly, but some people are silly.

[Yogibear41]

Paladins of Helm exist, despite the fact that Helm has no paladin levels and Deities & Demigods says a deity needs paladin levels to grant paladin spells. Dragon 300 references this, and says




In 1st Edition Divine spell casters could cast 1st and 2nd level spells without getting them from anything, and 3rd-5th from an intermediary source, which could be construed as say an outsider or something similar. Since Paladins don't have higher than 4th level spells normally, It is possible to say that based on this the deity doesn't really need to grant them spells anyway.

[Luckmann]

In 1st Edition Divine spell casters could cast 1st and 2nd level spells without getting them from anything, and 3rd-5th from an intermediary source, which could be construed as say an outsider or something similar. Since Paladins don't have higher than 4th level spells normally, It is possible to say that based on this the deity doesn't really need to grant them spells anyway.

I didn't know this, but I think it's a lot more interesting than the latter "systems" (if it can be called such, since it's fluff), so kudos. It means fun things like having archangels or higher celestials as the deific or symbolic (or even literal) leaders of paladin orders, which may or may not conform entirely to the doctrine of the parent deity, or may even be in near-open revolt or be a fringe radical, allowing for a lot of interesting situations.

For example, an honest-to-god paladin order of Kelemvor centered around doctrine espoused by a fallen solar (rules-wise populated by fallen paladins, knights, fighters, blackguards, etc.). Kelemvor, dispassionate as always, may consider the solar in question overly driven and passionate, but not nearly enough for censure, and the doctrine espoused may be *borderline* heretical, but the solar could still sponsor actions and characters that Kelemvor himself may not, in ways he may not - such as Rebuke Undead.

I still like the idea of such orders always having Turn Undead instead, though. Something about an all-out Lawful Evil undead-hating scourge appeals to be conceptually. The kind of person to use innocents as bait to take out a nest of vampires, or burns down a mage's guild because they harbor necromancers.

[Telok]

I could see my way to accepting that such a cleric/blackguard could command undead, as long as the command was for them to destroy themselves.

[ATHATH]

Even Clerics that would normally rebuke undead can take the Destroy Undead ACF:

Instead of the cleric's normal ability to turn or rebuke undead

[Darth Ultron]

I'd say Kelemvor both grants spells to a Blackguard and allows them to turn/rebuke/command undead.

Really, the ''clerics never rebuke or command undead'' is a dumb, poorly written line. I'm sure the idea here is that a cleric of Kelemvor does not ''makez an undead army to take over the world!", but it seems very, very, very silly that a cleric of Kelemvor can't get rid of an undead creature or command them. Just take the basic 'undead attack some poor innocents'. Sure Kelemvor would want you to ''destroy" the undead.....but, you know, controlling the undead and forcing them out of town and then destroying them seems a bit better. In short, there are a lot of reasons a cleric might need to control an undead for a short time for lots of good reasons.

A Blackguard of Kelemvor does make a lot of sense. He would very much support a 'dark warrior' that lives on the edge of society to hunt and destroy undead. Kelemvor would not care about rules, laws, or the egos of petty people and such over destroying undead. To destroy an undead monster is far, far, far more important then a stupid law or rule saying ''oh, no one can go into the green field after sunset...even if a vampire is killing folks there...because it's the rule/law".

[Ilerien]

Page 8:

Grant Spells
A deity grants spells and domain powers to mortal divine spellcasters who pray to it. Most deities can grant spells from the cleric spell list, the ranger spell list, and from three or more domains. Deities with levels in the druid class can grant spells from the druid spell list, and deities with paladin levels can grant spells from the paladin spell list.



The SRD includes "updated to 3.5" content from Deities & Demigods. It has exactly the same entry for "Grant Spells" as the 3.0 books do.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#grantSpellsThank you! I'm blind, apparently. :D
Still can't wrap my mind around reprinting this rule and then cheerfully contradicting it a lot of times both in the same book and several others including FR Campaign Setting.
I'd say Kelemvor both grants spells to a Blackguard and allows them to turn/rebuke/command undead.

Really, the ''clerics never rebuke or command undead'' is a dumb, poorly written line. I'm sure the idea here is that a cleric of Kelemvor does not ''makez an undead army to take over the world!", but it seems very, very, very silly that a cleric of Kelemvor can't get rid of an undead creature or command them. Just take the basic 'undead attack some poor innocents'. Sure Kelemvor would want you to ''destroy" the undead.....but, you know, controlling the undead and forcing them out of town and then destroying them seems a bit better. In short, there are a lot of reasons a cleric might need to control an undead for a short time for lots of good reasons.

A Blackguard of Kelemvor does make a lot of sense. He would very much support a 'dark warrior' that lives on the edge of society to hunt and destroy undead. Kelemvor would not care about rules, laws, or the egos of petty people and such over destroying undead. To destroy an undead monster is far, far, far more important then a stupid law or rule saying ''oh, no one can go into the green field after sunset...even if a vampire is killing folks there...because it's the rule/law".As much as it makes sense for an undead-hating deity overlook controlling undead just to get rid of them, I have an impression your example screams "Chaotic". :) Lawful Evil types (any Evil types, actually) are actively malicious and make a living at the expense of others. So a blackguard of Kelemvor might demand village elder to pay him for destroying undead threatening the village more than the village is able to afford, let's say, without starving afterwards. Or they might weigh "evils" (according to Kelemvor's dogma) and decide that sacrificing several innocents to draw out a vampire is better than allowing it to roam free, and if one of those innocents just happens to be a person who had wronged them in the past, hey, bonus points!

[Luckmann]

Lawful Evil types (any Evil types, actually) are actively malicious and make a living at the expense of others.
I disagree on the "make a living at the expense of others". Alignment is judged by action, and being malicious in your actions, even with a higher intent, can still be evil. The blackguard might simply be single-minded in their pursuit and use whatever means necessary, no matter the cost, even if it involves "evil".

Using the living as bait, killing innocents during the pursuit of "justice", burning villages that have become "tainted", hunting down wizards that have associated with necromancers even if they themselves are not, or torturing people in the pursuit of a vampire lord are all potentially evil actions taken by someone without it being about making a living at the expense of others, or even selfish, but could still be considered lawful since the actions are taken as a matter of principle in an organized and premeditated fashion, in accordance to a structure of belief and set tenets in service of something the blackguard considers a higher ideal.

Bonus points if the blackguard knows he's damning himself, but still chooses to do it due to strict adherence to the pursuits of his faith.

As Gygax said on Lawful Good: "Lawful Neutrality countenances malign laws. Lawful Good does not.

Mercy is to be displayed for the lawbreaker that does so by accident. Benevolence is for the harmless. Pacifism in the fantasy milieu is for those who would be slaves. They have no place in determining general alignment, albeit justice tempered by mercy is a NG manifestation, whilst well-considered benevolence is generally a mark of Good."

In contrast, thus, a complete disregard for "well-considered benevolence", an enforcement of would-be malign laws or principles, and no sense of benevolence for the "harmless" (or perhaps not considering *anyone* harmless) would easily pave the way to Lawful Evil.

And specifically in regards to Darth Ultron's post; legality and laws have absolutely nothing to do with being Lawful. It is possible to live under a completely seperate set of principles that run counter to the law of the land, malignant or benevolent, and still be entirely Lawful. A blackguard such as the one described by Darth Ultron would obviously consider social order imperative, and consider civilization and general order important, but it doesn't mean that he would not disregard laws when necessary to do so in the pursuit of a higher purpose and a society structured around his own religious principles - a society in which individual life and liberty is obviously a lot less important than "kill absolutely all dead".

Also, let's not forget that this is medieval-inspired fantasy (high or otherwise), primarily depicting different forms of feudal society. Serfs and peasants may be considered to be of extremely low import, easily disregarded, and fully subservient to the nobility or knighthoods. A paladin or blackguard might not just consider them too low to bother with all things considered, but they may consider it *right* and *proper* to sit in judgement of them.

Fully Lawfully.

[Doctor Awkward]

Presumably, the same applies to blackguards - if the deity has no blackguard levels, then something else must be the source of blackguard power.

Probably "the cosmic forces of Evil" in the same way that "the cosmic forces of Law and Good" are where a paladin's powers come from, when they don't come from a deity.

The fluff surrounding clerics and paladins that worship ideals frequently suggests that some random deity is actually the one granting the spells.

Why the deity does is largely ignored or left up to the DM to decide, with everything from the character in question unknowingly advancing the deity's cause, or simply because it amuses them.

[Luckmann]

The fluff surrounding clerics and paladins that worship ideals frequently suggests that some random deity is actually the one granting the spells.

Why the deity does is largely ignored or left up to the DM to decide, with everything from the character in question unknowingly advancing the deity's cause, or simply because it amuses them.
Yeah, it is emphasized several times in books like Faiths & Pantheons (and similar) that the plans and motivations of deities are not of man, and that their perspectives are different, with schemes running decades, centuries, or longer. Even Good deities, for reasons of their own, do things out of perceived self-interest. Let's not forget the whole Dawn Cataclysm thing Lathander was supposedly involved in, and he's one of the goodiest goodies.

Apparently the road to hell is paved with good intentions unless you're a deity and can make your own plane a paradise anyway and say "Naw man, my intentions were good so I'm still fiiine".

It's all very "Gods work in mysterious ways" and can be used with great effect when it comes to interpreting things like this and "Break the (perceived) rules". I'm now imagining some high priest realizing that the deity was granting prayers to some non-believer or someone with another patron deity, turning to the bishop at his side, asking "Can he do that? Is this allowed?!" in a shushed, shrill voice, the bishop shrugging.

[Darth Ultron]

Lawful Evil types (any Evil types, actually) are actively malicious and make a living at the expense of others.

Well, nearly everyone no matter their alignment ''makes a living at the expense of others". Even the lawful good king taxes his subjects, for example. And the vast majority of lawful good cops ''make a living at the expense of others" by overly enforcing laws: make a road a 'no horse gallop zone' and then write out tickets for anyone with a horse that moves more then a trot.



So a blackguard of Kelemvor might demand village elder to pay him for destroying undead threatening the village more than the village is able to afford, let's say, without starving afterwards. Or they might weigh "evils" (according to Kelemvor's dogma) and decide that sacrificing several innocents to draw out a vampire is better than allowing it to roam free, and if one of those innocents just happens to be a person who had wronged them in the past, hey, bonus points!

Note that the average Lawful Good worshiper of Kelemvor would expect a willing donation to the church(or themselves, wink wink) in return for their undead hunting services. So, sure the LG person does not ''demand" money openly....but they do ''demand'' money all the same. Sure a ''good" religion or whatever does use donated money to, um, ''help the poor" or do some other good sounding thing...after just skimming like 75% of the money for themselves(or upkeep of the temple, wink wink). And it does not need to be money, as the classic good extortion is to get something else they want.

And the average Lawful Neutral worshiper of Kelemvor would just about always ''only help out of the price is right".

So that really does not make the Lawful Evil blackguard of Kelemvor stand out any for ''wanting money to help".

And on the other side....any type of good, other then Disney Kidz Stupid Good, has the idea of Acceptable Losses. The true good people know and understand that life is not a cartoon where you can save everyone. So, again, the average good worshiper of Kelemvor would still think the life of a couple innocents is worth destroying an undead.

[hamishspence]

The true good people know and understand that life is not a cartoon where you can save everyone. So, again, the average good worshiper of Kelemvor would still think the life of a couple innocents is worth destroying an undead.

The difference being that the average good person will not murder innocents to "draw out undead".

"Being prepared to write people off as acceptable losses" and "murdering people" are on very different levels.

[Luckmann]

It's very much the difference between "Anyone want to volunteer?" and "You're a volunteer."

I just came up with a potentially interesting concept: a Paladin that has terrible Charisma (entirely possible with the Serenity feat, and even good), and is (sadly) uninspiring to others, despite his best intentions and will. When he leads the charge, no-one follows. When he tries to rally the townsfolk, they abandon him in battle. When he asks for volunteers... nobody volunteers.

But he keeps sacrificing himself. He still charges that den of beasts. He still fights the vampires, even as the townsfolk huddle in their huts and cottages. He still draws the ghouls out of that crypt, At terrible disadvantage.

But how much is *too* much? How long before he grows cynical and disillusioned? He gives *everything* and they give *nothing*.