Melee Bard Build Help

[cartejos]

LA buy-off of an Athasian Human (Dragon... 319 i think)
Bard 3/monk 2/Shou Disciple 5/War Mind 10

Using either the dragonfang gauntlet to set a based price to put unarmed damage on a 2HW, falchion in this case?

Need Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, weapon focus (unarmed) for shou disciple, dodge and IUS can be gotten from monk

Monastic training can replace mobility, and taking Tashalatora would improve flurry enlugh to remove penalty and add 2 attacks, and shou disciple lets you do it with the falchion.

Taking dragontouched or being allowed to play an Athasian Silverbrow Human gets dragonblood subtype for dragonfire inspiration.
Squeezing in words of creation and taking song of the heart get extra inspire courage.
Taking 1 level in Crusader or Warblade and taking song of the white raven could get swift action +1, or +2 with Chaos Music.
If taking chaos music and song of the white raven and words of creation and song of the heart: +2(base)*2(WoC)+1(SotH)=+5d6 DFI
On top of a 2d6 (at medium) falchion damage die, with 6 base attacks (4 iteratives, 2 flurry)

[Zaq]

You don’t seem to have actually asked a question. What problems are you noticing with this build that you want help overcoming?

My first gut instinct is that the build looks kinda MAD, but I guess you don’t need that much CHA if you’re only using Bard for IC/DFI. Doesn’t feel much like a Bard to me by the time you’re done, but fluff is mutable.

Is all the work with Shou Disciple just so you can Flurry with an unusual weapon? What’s so important about the falchion that it’s worth all that build space? Couldn’t you just use a quarterstaff if you wanted a two-hander that’s compatible with Flurry? DFI dice aren’t multiplied on a crit (normal IC bonuses are, but still), so crit-fishing doesn’t seem that amazingly useful to me on this character. (Also, just as a crazy side idea, what about using a one-hander and an offhand unarmed strike to TWF with Snowflake Wardance instead of trying to Flurry with a falchion? Of course, that assumes a lot more Bard and a lot more CHA than what’s on display here. Might play nice with a Song if the White Raven build that goes Warblade for the crazy Tiger Claw Verbing Mongoose maneuvers. Add in Snap Kick and you might even get more attacks.)

Does Chaos Music require you to be chaotic? War Mind requires nonchaotic. Of course, Monk requires lawful and Bard requires nonlawful, so you’re probably already ignoring alignment restrictions (which is fine with me 90% of the time, because alignment restrictions are usually dumb), but it’s probably good to be clear that we’re doing so.

Overall, what’s your goal (both with the character and with this thread)? What problem are you trying to solve? What’s mission-critical to you, and what are you willing to be flexible about?

[cartejos]

There wasn't much of a question that I wanted to pose. I wanted to present a build and see if anyone had major improvements, criticisms, etc. Alignment restrictions are pretty much ignored for class entry, though with Chaos Music and Words of Creation the character will have low level Chaotic and Good auras.

But here are some questions:
In a build that's already using a level or 2 in monk and 10 levels in any psionic class, is tashalatora worth it? Or are the 2 feats required for it not worth the 2 extra attacks without penalty?

What are the cheapest/best ways to boost the heck out of Inspire Courage?

Is there any way to make War Hulk work as a party face? That'd be hilarious!

[ExLibrisMortis]

I second what Zaq said about Flurry of Blows and falchions. If you want a two-handed flurry weapon, use a Large scorpion kama (6304 gp). That'll impose a -2 attack penalty, but it won't take a ton of feats, and it'll deal your unarmed strike damage, which is 2d6 with Tashalatora.

Bard 6/monk 2/war mind 10 would be a pretty solid base. With Chaos Music and a vest of legends, you have 15th-level Inspire Courage, which gets you a +3 bonus, and Song of the Heart as bonus feat at bard 6, for a +4 bonus, all before Words of Creation.

Crusader 3/monk 2/war mind 2/heartfire fanner 5/war mind +8 is a bit trickier*, but you do get 21st-level Inspire Courage with Chaos Music, Song of the White Raven, and a vest of legends. That's a +5 bonus before Words of Creation.


*You need to take your monk levels at 1 and 5 to maximize Perform ranks, and take two ranks Diplomacy and Perform cross-class with your War Mind levels, which only have two skill points per level--good thing one of the requirements on Words of Creation is 15 Intelligence, right?

[Zaq]

Crusader 3/monk 2/war mind 2/heartfire fanner 5/war mind +8 is a bit trickier*, but you do get 21st-level Inspire Courage with Chaos Music, Song of the White Raven, and a vest of legends. That's a +5 bonus before Words of Creation.


*You need to take your monk levels at 1 and 5 to maximize Perform ranks, and take two ranks Diplomacy and Perform cross-class with your War Mind levels, which only have two skill points per level--good thing one of the requirements on Words of Creation is 15 Intelligence, right?

Unless you've got a feat or something to the contrary, once you "leave" being a Monk and take a level in something that isn't Monk, you aren't allowed to take any more levels in Monk.

This is an incredibly stupid restriction that should be houseruled away, but it is there by RAW. (Same for Paladin, with my same assessment of how dumb the restriction is.)

[OgresAreCute]

Unless you've got a feat or something to the contrary, once you "leave" being a Monk and take a level in something that isn't Monk, you aren't allowed to take any more levels in Monk.

This is an incredibly stupid restriction that should be houseruled away, but it is there by RAW. (Same for Paladin, with my same assessment of how dumb the restriction is.)

It's a tough life in tier 5. Not only are you a really crappy class to begin with, but then you get bogged down by alignment restrictions, oaths and multiclassing bans.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Unless you've got a feat or something to the contrary, once you "leave" being a Monk and take a level in something that isn't Monk, you aren't allowed to take any more levels in Monk.
Good thing it isn't crucial to the build, as monk 2/crusader 3 still qualifies just fine. However, I did just realize that Knowledge (psionics) is not a monk class skill. It is a class skill for kalashtar monks, so that's our fix--also helps meet the pp requirement for War Mind, and boosts available pp quite nicely. You want to avoid the first substitution level like the plague (drop Flurry for one of the worst abilities in the game), but the second one is pretty good (any psionic feat as monk feat, but need to meet prereqs). If you didn't want the x4 skill multiplier on monk skills, you could go crusader 2/monk 2/crusader +1 to pick up Psionic Meditation at level 4.


Let's do the full thing, just in case. 15 starting Intelligence (for Words of Creation). We need:

Psionic Meditation (ECL 4)
Concentration 7 ranks

War Mind (ECL 5)
Knowledge (History) 2 ranks
Knowledge (Psionics) 8 ranks

Tashalatora (ECL 6)
Autohypnosis 5 ranks
Concentration 5 ranks

Heartfire Fanner (ECL 7)
Diplomacy 10 ranks
Perform 10 ranks



Class
In-Class Skills
Cross-Class Skills
Spent/Total


Crusader 1
Concentration 4, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (History) 2
Autohypnosis 2, Knowledge (Psionics) 2, Perform 2
22/24


Crusader 2
Concentration 5, Diplomacy 5
Autohypnosis 2.5, Knowledge (Psionics) 2.5, Perform 2.5
5/6


Monk 1
Diplomacy 6, Perform 5.5
Autohypnosis 3, Knowledge (Psionics) 3
6/6


Kalashtar monk 2
Diplomacy 7, Perform 6.5, Knowledge (Psionics) 7

6/6


Crusader 3
Diplomacy 8
Perform 8, Knowledge (Psionics) 8
6/6


War Mind 1

Diplomacy 9, Perform 9
4/4


War Mind 2

Diplomacy 10, Perform 10
4/4


While it's possible to enter both classes at the earliest possible level (ECL 6 and 8 respectively), Psionic Meditation and Tashalatora can't also be picked up at their earliest level (ECL 4 and 6 respectively), unless you manage to get one additional class skill, a starting Intelligence of 16, or the ability to take monk levels discontinuously (at 1 and 4--only gets you Psionic Meditation).

[Nifft]

While it's possible to enter both classes at the earliest possible level (ECL 6 and 8 respectively), Psionic Meditation and Tashalatora can't also be picked up at their earliest level (ECL 4 and 6 respectively), unless you manage to get one additional class skill, a starting Intelligence of 16, or the ability to take monk levels discontinuously (at 1 and 4--only gets you Psionic Meditation).

Are Kalashtar human enough for Able Learner?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Are Kalashtar human enough for Able Learner?
Inspired have the human subtype, but I can't find a proper listing for Kalashtar. I think they're just Humanoid (psionic) :smallfrown:.

[Nifft]

Inspired have the human subtype, but I can't find a proper listing for Kalashtar. I think they're just Humanoid (psionic) :smallfrown:.

Changelings were unofficially nudged in, so Kalashtar could also get permission -- especially if Inspired somehow got the nod.