Water, water, and more water! (Spheres)

[SangoProduction]

I was thinking about making a water mage. OH! Spheres of Power is basically the go-to for any theme-based caster. So, starting there.
I only know of 3 aquatic races in Pathfinder, the Sea Elf, the Gillman, and the Undine. Are there any others? I can't find them.

But...perhaps more importantly, I was going to do some math on the amount of water a caster can create using Creation Sphere's Mass Liquid Generation (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/creation#toc18). So, as a small object, you can create one 5-foot cube of water (125 cubic ft.). This is around 935 gallons. A US gallon of water weighs 8.34 pounds.

So 935*8.35 = 7,724 lbs, or about (yay Google) 3503 kilograms. An African Forest Elephant weighs only 6,000 lbs (2,721 kg). Wow. And by standard, you can create that much water in one casting per Caster Level. Taking Larger Creation allows us to double that (for a slight cost). So 15,448 lbs per caster level.

So, with 5 levels of Knight of Willpower archetype of the Thaumaturge, we have an effective Caster Level of 11 when we go all out for this. 169,923 lbs, or 20,570 gallons of water in a single casting. An Olympic Swimming Pool is 660,253.09 gallons of water (Yeah, I know, I was surprised too)... so impressive, but... It would take another 28-32 casts to fill it, which might take a couple days at level 5.

But imagine having a house suddenly not only dropped on mid-combat, but sweeping you away, downhill. That'd be terrifying. But would this qualify as an environmental hazard, or is this just a pointless, if amusing, rant?

[Palanan]

My bad, misremembered.

:smallredface:

[SangoProduction]

Misremembered what?

[Palanan]

I could've sworn the munavri were aquatic, but it turns out they're only mariners on the subterranean seas in the Darklands.

Seems like there should be a couple other aquatic races, though. There were a ton in 3.5.

[Psyren]

By "aquatic" do you mean "actually amphibious/living in water" or just "water-themed?"

There's plenty regardless of which you mean - Merfolk, Adaro, Locathah, Tritons, Sahuagin, Cecaelia, Grindylows, Naiads, Grippli, water-based Suli, Skinwalkers (wereshark variant), and Deep One Hybrids to name several. All of the above are first-party, but some may be a bit more powerful than other races in your campaign depending on the RP budget your other players are working with.

[SangoProduction]

By "aquatic" do you mean "actually amphibious/living in water" or just "water-themed?"

There's plenty regardless of which you mean - Merfolk, Adaro, Locathah, Tritons, Sahuagin, Cecaelia, Grindylows, Naiads, Grippli, water-based Suli, Skinwalkers (wereshark variant), and Deep One Hybrids to name several. All of the above are first-party, but some may be a bit more powerful than other races in your campaign depending on the RP budget your other players are working with.

Kinda both. I'll take a look at those.

[Alistaroc]

I'd be interested in your build.
I've been toying around with a water/freeze character as well, but the only ways I've found to create/manipulate water in Spheres cost spell points.
Given it takes a spell point to Freeze a target, it's prohibitive to need to spend one to wet them too.
The best I can find is using Telekinesis, but it's unclear if it can be used on water.
The Cantrip feat as well does not list creating water, despite it being a cantrip.

[MeimuHakurei]

Weather Sphere is a good choice if you want to drop a ton of water/hail indiscriminately in the area.

Also, if it's about boosting Caster Level, strap on some casting drawbacks to gain Deathful Magic, Overchannel, Wild Surge and several other CL-boosting boons. It severely limits usability of the spell, but that's the price for power.

[khadgar567]

oi oi oi we are not creating self made prophet Noah build guys to much water in single cast might flood the entire world.

[SangoProduction]

I'd be interested in your build.
I've been toying around with a water/freeze character as well, but the only ways I've found to create/manipulate water in Spheres cost spell points.
Given it takes a spell point to Freeze a target, it's prohibitive to need to spend one to wet them too.
The best I can find is using Telekinesis, but it's unclear if it can be used on water.
The Cantrip feat as well does not list creating water, despite it being a cantrip.

After going through the build, I found it extremely one-dimensional and boring to actually play. Also, since we became so focused on Creation to make a bunch of water...the one upside Nature (water) had (freezing twice as many people per CL) became obsolete. With Waterlord, it becomes 4x as many per CL. At level 5 with the build, it was 12 medium, while with Creation, it was could encase 5 smalls, or restrictive casing 11 smalls (5 mediums).
EDIT: Whoops. I used the un-Waterlorded numbers for Freeze (fixed now). So this is actually appreciable, if you don't mind it being ice, rather than tougher materials. Oops. And I did just assume Restrictive Casing's rules as the default casing's rules. So yeah. Freezing is still quite decent.

I mean, it had vortex, which is a rather fun concept and battlefield control....but at 1d8+1/2 CL damage, you may as well take a destruction talent instead, and do something appreciable.
Oh...and...summoning a house's weight in water on top of someone doesn't actually do anything by RAW, unless your DM says that the Wave talent works with conjuring water, in which case it's a non-damaging Air Blast without benefit of blast shapes.

[Alistaroc]

freezing
Yeah I found this was the only thing I actually wanted from Nature, especially because it's an immediate action, but I'm not finding any way to actually apply water to a target short of Aquakineticist's kinetic blast.

[SangoProduction]

Yeah I found this was the only thing I actually wanted from Nature, especially because it's an immediate action, but I'm not finding any way to actually apply water to a target short of Aquakineticist's kinetic blast.

You could use Weather Sphere's Precipitation to create a mist as concentration, free of charge. The weather effect goes away once you stop, but it takes a round to go back to normal, in which time you can freeze people....if your DM lets that count as "wet".

[Ruethgar]

With shared casting(for a minion), familiar concentration, or easy concentration you can weather them with rain while freezing them. Also, while probably not intended, you might be able to get Metamagic Master and Magical Lineage for your water creation to cost nothing.

Also, while it might not be the case in PF, in 3.5 the default is that there are small fissures to the elemental planes that balance the prime material preventing Noah level floods, or at the very least make sure they don’t last too long.

[Alistaroc]

With shared casting(for a minion), familiar concentration, or easy concentration you can weather them with rain

I can find Familiar Concentration, however Shared Casting and Easy Concentration I cannot, what are their sources? Additionally is there a way to boost CL enough to have moderate by level 3? It seems undoable given the CL 7 requirement.

[EldritchWeaver]

I can find Familiar Concentration, however Shared Casting and Easy Concentration I cannot, what are their sources? Additionally is there a way to boost CL enough to have moderate by level 3? It seems undoable given the CL 7 requirement.

Easy Concentration is likely the Easy Focus boon.