I just watched the second season of Luke Cage on netflix... I shouldn't have

[dehro]

The first season had many good things but suffered from pacing issues..
I've hated the second season almost from the first episode and only have dragged myself through it because I'm a completionist and a moron...

The pacing got worse...
The dialogue seems written by.. I don't even know, it was horrible...
The acting on a too high numer of occasions was borderline terrible...
The action coreography was as bad as it was in the first season...
The plot was utter nonsense...
The villain was completely bonkers and there was no reason in the universe why they shouldn't have put her in a straight-jacket around 3 phrases into any conversation she was a part in...
The other villain and his cronies, I am told, butchered any semblance of Jamaican accent or patois...

yet I read that people and critics really liked it and consider it better than the previous season.

Am I missing something??

On a separate note.. The second season of Iron Fist, the other Marvel show that I really disliked is now on Netflix.. and I know I'll end up watching it even if I really hated the main character and his stupid antics during the entire first season.

[An Enemy Spy]

I thought the second season was way better than the first one. I couldn't take Diamondback seriously at all as a villain, especially once he put on that dopey looking suit. Season two had villains with real pathos to them.

[dehro]

I thought the second season was way better than the first one. I couldn't take Diamondback seriously at all as a villain, especially once he put on that dopey looking suit. Season two had villains with real pathos to them.
Pathos is about all they had though... Pathos and baggage.
This should have been 4 episodes at the most, and really, half the plot made very little sense or was predicated on completely ignoring the real world. An app to track Cage's whereabouts? People walking down the street in plain sight with a hostage? A councilwoman who can still show her face after having been politically dragged through the mud? The dialogues made no sense half the time.. And what little sense they made was repeated ad nauseam... Give me Kingpin ten times over before I want to see another Stokes.. Half the time I was under the impression that even the cast couldn't believe the tripe that were their lines... And it's a pity because several of them are actually good actors

[John Campbell]

On a separate note.. The second season of Iron Fist, the other Marvel show that I really disliked is now on Netflix.. and I know I'll end up watching it even if I really hated the main character and his stupid antics during the entire first season.

Good news. I didn't like the first season of Iron Fist for the same reason, and finished watching it mainly because I felt like I needed to before I moved on to Defenders, but I still gave the new season a shot on the off chance it might be better. I'm a few episodes in now, and so far the ratio of "Colleen kicking the crap out of people" to "Danny being a douchecanoe" has been favorable. We'll see if that holds.

[Jayngfet]

I didn't have any particular problem with the Jamaican accents. Was it a bit thicker than it would otherwise be? Kinda. Is the pronunciation imperfect? Yes. Do they lean maybe a bit too heavily on Jamaican slang? Maybe a bit. But it's generally closer to an actual Jamaican dialect than 99% of Jamaican characters you see(or general carribean/west indian characters who are made to sound fake-Jamaican because that's the only accent anyone cares about).

The biggest detractor I can see is, as usual, some Americanized manchild on Vice complaining that he got made fun of for having any accent at all in middle school and still has the accent. The difference is Bushmaster and his family are intended to be actual Jamaicans living in Jamaica who either move between both locations or live primarily outside the U.S. and have only recently arrived or returned. Afro-Carribean dialects are highly regional and much more complicated than most people realize. Specific pronunciations may be off and the whole thing isn't fully authentic but I'd buy it as being closer than the usual attempts, at least to the point where an attempt was actually made even if it didn't land perfectly.

My big problem with Luke Cage Season 2 is much more in the fact that the show's internal logic is wonky. At the end of the day the entire season is based on the idea that over the counter herbal medications will yield results comparable to highly unethical genetics testing and cutting edge medical science and that running a herbal shop is equivalent to running a fully stocked clinic. If this was actually the case it makes Steve Rogers look like a giant idiot because some dude can just buy a bowl of crap for 20 dollars and call it a day.

[An Enemy Spy]

My big problem with Luke Cage Season 2 is much more in the fact that the show's internal logic is wonky. At the end of the day the entire season is based on the idea that over the counter herbal medications will yield results comparable to highly unethical genetics testing and cutting edge medical science and that running a herbal shop is equivalent to running a fully stocked clinic. If this was actually the case it makes Steve Rogers look like a giant idiot because some dude can just buy a bowl of crap for 20 dollars and call it a day.

I mean, only if he has the very specific herb that grows in only one place on Earth and he knows the Obeah rituals and only for a short while and he's willing to kill himself with repeated use.

[Kitten Champion]

I mean, only if he has the very specific herb that grows in only one place on Earth and he knows the Obeah rituals and only for a short while and he's willing to kill himself with repeated use.

It's also stated numerous times that Bushmaster is "special", that the herb brought out existing characteristics hidden within his biology that let him survive through a - bad vaccination I think - that killed the rest of its recipients and likely through a long bloody history as a fighter.

I did notice that as the series went on the thickness of the Jamaican dialect tapered out. Which I imagine was part the production realizing maybe they should pull back a bit, and part because the Jamaican characters had more and more dialogue with the American characters.

As to Luke Cage season 2, I enjoyed it immensely. It took the Blaxploitation, Wild West kind of serial narrative and did it with self-awareness and style.

[dehro]

Can somebody explain the localising app to me and why a lawyer didn't put a stop to it? There are so many issues with it even being in the plot for more then an episode it is laughable.
Can somebody explain to me why every single thug thinks he's special and his bullets will work? Mind you, the fight scenes were such crap that they had to film something happening to justify their lack of proper direction or value.
Can somebody explain to me why Shades, Comanche, Tilda or the police didn't have Mariah institutionalised after one of her crazy monologues?
Could the bad cop have phoned it in any more clearly?
Also, did it really take Luke cage half a day of meditation to realise the witness would be in a clinic and why did the cops not check for that either?
On top of all that there's the simple fact that half the episodes bored me to death (and no, I'm not someone who needs there to be constant action or who doesn't appreciate a slow movie done right).
Between the constant grandstanding in the face of failure and the repetitive (and dumbed down) dialogue and plot, I really don't see how this was possibly better than the first season.
Don't get me wrong, Luke Cage, his dad, Misty, even Mariah were entertaining concepts and well acted, but half the time I feel the actors were pretty much going through the motions or reciting lines that made very little sense.

I left this season with the distinct impression that the producers thought they were dealing with a bunch of fifth graders and didn't care at all about the final product, on the assumption that people will watch anything with the MCU label on it, no matter how bad.
And this annoyed me immensely because I have to admit it's true

[Starbuck_II]

It's also stated numerous times that Bushmaster is "special", that the herb brought out existing characteristics hidden within his biology that let him survive through a - bad vaccination I think - that killed the rest of its recipients and likely through a long bloody history as a fighter.

I did notice that as the series went on the thickness of the Jamaican dialect tapered out. Which I imagine was part the production realizing maybe they should pull back a bit, and part because the Jamaican characters had more and more dialogue with the American characters.

As to Luke Cage season 2, I enjoyed it immensely. It took the Blaxploitation, Wild West kind of serial narrative and did it with self-awareness and style.

Wait, this is Deadpool movie, he had a mutant power but they needed to activate it. Bushmasters activated while taking the herb.

[Jayngfet]

Can somebody explain the localising app to me and why a lawyer didn't put a stop to it? There are so many issues with it even being in the plot for more then an episode it is laughable.
Can somebody explain to me why every single thug thinks he's special and his bullets will work? Mind you, the fight scenes were such crap that they had to film something happening to justify their lack of proper direction or value.


Your average gangster is a middle to highschool dropout generally high on their own self image. They don't have a reputation for being smart.


Can somebody explain to me why Shades, Comanche, Tilda or the police didn't have Mariah institutionalised after one of her crazy monologues?


Shades was in love, Comanche wasn't high enough up the ladder, and the police are another kettle of fish altogether. Gangsters also generally don't stop in prison if they're at the top. As we see in real life gang leaders, especially well connected ones, are fully capable of leading their operations from prison. We see in Daredevil this is no different in the MCU.


Also, did it really take Luke cage half a day of meditation to realise the witness would be in a clinic and why did the cops not check for that either?


The clinic itself is illegal and off the books.

[Tvtyrant]

I really liked Luke Cage Season 2, and thought a lot of the things you didn't like were actually great.

1. I loved that the fight scenes looked like amateurs instead of expert fighters. Luke Cage was a cop turned cage fighter, he is not Danny Rand (Defender of Kung Lung) or Matt Murdock (raised to be Kung Lung's assassin).

He also fights gangsters instead of immortal ninjas, so both he and his opponents fight like people do instead of martial artists. Even Bushmaster isn't a trained assassin, he is a magic gangster.

2. I thought the acting was better then in season 1. It is a story about blood feuds and gang wars, hammy is good. Mariah's actor was amazing, showing the tremendous range to get across that she is a mean but quintessentially civilian individual imitating what she thinks gangsters should be like and startling herself with her own violence.

3. What about the plot did you find nonesensical? With the exception of the terrible last episode the whole thing was basically "Hamlet but someone trying to stop the fallout."

[An Enemy Spy]

I left this season with the distinct impression that the producers thought they were dealing with a bunch of fifth graders and didn't care at all about the final product, on the assumption that people will watch anything with the MCU label on it, no matter how bad.
And this annoyed me immensely because I have to admit it's true

Walk it the hell back. You've gone past criticism and into abuse here. You may not like the show but insulting the intelligence of people who do is unacceptable.

[Kyberwulf]

Yeah, you are missing the point where, almost all the real points to anything determining the quality of a given media. Is how much PC Points you can get for putting it out there. I mean look at Jessica Jones. Not worth half the praise it got.

Luke cage is pretty much an all black show. So it gets a lot of "It is AMAZING" points. I liked the first season of Luke Cage. In my view it falls behind Daredevil Season 1 in the ranking. That being said, it wasn't as amazing as people say it was.

The new season though.... I started it. I fell asleep around episode two I think. It has been one of those shows where I keep telling my self I will start watching it again, then I notice other shows that I would rather watch again.

[Devonix]

Yeah, you are missing the point where, almost all the real points to anything determining the quality of a given media. Is how much PC Points you can get for putting it out there. I mean look at Jessica Jones. Not worth half the praise it got.

Luke cage is pretty much an all black show. So it gets a lot of "It is AMAZING" points. I liked the first season of Luke Cage. In my view it falls behind Daredevil Season 1 in the ranking. That being said, it wasn't as amazing as people say it was.

The new season though.... I started it. I fell asleep around episode two I think. It has been one of those shows where I keep telling my self I will start watching it again, then I notice other shows that I would rather watch again.

Or it could be that Luke Cage is tapping into something that people want and that they enjoy. Luke Cage Season 1 was a great show and I'd put the first half of Season 1 above any of the other netflix Defenders shows. Unfortunatly it had a poor Second half that spoiled it.

Season 2 fixes just about every problem I had with season 1 and improves everything I liked about the first Half of the first season.

[An Enemy Spy]

Aaaand this thread has officially reached the thinly veiled racial argument event horizon. I'm out, have fun arguing for two or three pages before the inevitable shutdown by the mods.

[Friv]

Can somebody explain the localising app to me and why a lawyer didn't put a stop to it? There are so many issues with it even being in the plot for more then an episode it is laughable.
A lawyer didn't put a stop to it because the only person who could complain was Luke, and he was busy not taking it seriously enough.


Can somebody explain to me why every single thug thinks he's special and his bullets will work?

Literally the first fight, Luke goes, "come on guys", and the guys go, "Hey, we gotta try." Criminal gangs run on bravado and toughing it out. So they do. Also, they don't actually know it's Bulletproof Luke every time.


Can somebody explain to me why Shades, Comanche, Tilda or the police didn't have Mariah institutionalised after one of her crazy monologues?
I mean, Comanche was basically yelling "Lady is crazy" at Shades every damned time. Shades was in love and trying to ignore Mariah's collapse, and by the time Mariah had one of those in front of Tilda she was in a place where Tilda couldn't affect her.


Could the bad cop have phoned it in any more clearly?
The bad cop did a pretty good job.


Also, did it really take Luke cage half a day of meditation to realise the witness would be in a clinic and why did the cops not check for that either?

Why did the cops not check out the hidden illegal clinic? Because it was hidden and illegal. Luke found it.

Maybe the problem is actually that the plot didn't click with you personally, so you were zoning out and missing the details that actually explained what was going on, because frankly the story was pretty much coherent and consistent throughout.

I enjoyed it. The best parts weren't as strong as the best parts of Season One, but the worst parts weren't as bad as the worst parts of Season One either, so I'd say pretty solid overall.

[Kitten Champion]

Your average gangster is a middle to highschool dropout generally high on their own self image. They don't have a reputation for being smart.

As much as you may be aware on an intellectual level that a gun won't work, like when Luke confronted the bodyguard to the Italian mobster bigwig at the end -- it's difficult to truly believe it until you've seen it for yourself, not when it's worked for you every other time. Kind of like Harry Potter and the killing curse.

You don't exactly have many options otherwise anyways. Surrender? Yeah, that's probably going to end up worse for you in the long run in the criminal underground. Only Mariah's people are savvy about how little threat they pose to him, which is why she felt comfortable abusing his nature rather than trying to overcome him in a physical confrontation.




Shades was in love, Comanche wasn't high enough up the ladder, and the police are another kettle of fish altogether. Gangsters also generally don't stop in prison if they're at the top. As we see in real life gang leaders, especially well connected ones, are fully capable of leading their operations from prison. We see in Daredevil this is no different in the MCU.

Also, and I can't stress this enough, you can't have people institutionalized for making impassioned speeches at heightened emotional moments.

[The Jack]

It's better than the defenders though, right?


None of the marvel shows have been particularly great. The 13 episode mandate creates a lot of repetitions, a lot of scenes that go nowhere, and then there's the Hand.

Plus, most of the fight choreography is iffy. DD really needs to stop with the spin-to-win kicks. He's got some which should do damage to himself than the enemy. Luke and Frank approach reasonable, and it looks a lot better.

[Lemmy]

My experience was the opposite of the OP's. I found the first season of Luke Cage terrible. Bordering on unwatchable after a few episodes. While the second season was incredibly fun and exciting, specially its second half. It isn't perfect by any means, and has a fair share of inconsistencies and absurdities, but I throughly enjoyed it.

It's better than any Marvel series storyline involving The Hand... Although, admittedly, that isn't saying much.

[dehro]

It's better than the defenders though, right?


well, yes, Danny Rand features prominently in the Defenders, so yes, it's better than that.
my personal list goes:
Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage first season, Defenders, Iron Fist, Luke Cage second season.

[dehro]

Walk it the hell back. You've gone past criticism and into abuse here. You may not like the show but insulting the intelligence of people who do is unacceptable.

I list myself amongst those people who are willing to give anything Marvel a shot... and my statement is that the authors of this particular run of Luke Cage didn't put a lot of thought into this season. That is of course my impression, and I understand it's not a very commonly held one.
that said, no back walking necessary.

[John Campbell]

Good news. I didn't like the first season of Iron Fist for the same reason, and finished watching it mainly because I felt like I needed to before I moved on to Defenders, but I still gave the new season a shot on the off chance it might be better. I'm a few episodes in now, and so far the ratio of "Colleen kicking the crap out of people" to "Danny being a douchecanoe" has been favorable. We'll see if that holds.

So, yeah, I finished Iron Fist Season 2. It's way better than Season 1 or any part of Defenders where Danny's mouth was moving.

The events of Defenders basically pulled the rug out from under Danny's whole sense of purpose and left him kind of at loose ends, so he's lost most of the smug attitude that made him so unbearable. He's still got his occasional moments, but he's a lot more tolerable in Season 2. And there's a lot of stuff going on with the other characters, especially Colleen+Misty (not to get too spoily, but I think there's a good chance we're getting a Daughters of the Dragon spin-off next season), in which Danny's only peripherally involved.

[dehro]

good news indeed...

[Sapphire Guard]

Also just watched Luke Cage Season 2. Better than season 1 on the whole



Misty would make a good vigilante, but she's a truly horrible detective. None of her witnesses ever actually get adequate protection, she abuses all her co workers constantly. She talks about how Shades was wearing a wire IN MARIAH'S HEADQUARTERS! Anyone less capable than Shades would have died for that, and even he got lucky.

The writers seem to be struggling with how invincible Luke is, only Bushmaster can hurt him and he has to try really really hard. Hard to keep things at stake. Mariah needed to be very very lucky to keep coming out alive.

Bushmaster and Shades probably the best part of the season, I sincerely felt bad for them both. And Comanche. Great performance from Alfre Woodard.

Colleen and Danny's appearances also really enjoyable.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I got a few episodes in, and just stopped. It wasn't even funny-bad, like Iron Fist (which is so ridiculous it's actually funny in retrospect, but not so funny that's it's worth sitting through).
Then again, I really don't rate the Netflix MCU shows at all - JJ is mainly good, but even that stretches my patience at times. LC series 1 was mainly good, until Diamondback turned up. He's just ludicrous. There are plenty more cool and interesting villains in the show, so why they felt they had to have that idiotic madman as the central threat, I really cannot fathom.
Frankly, I wonder if I shouldn't have given up with Netflix's MCU when I first felt like it - Episode 1 of DD.