Conditional Spell Question

[ATHATH]

Does the effect of the Conditional Spell metamagic feat (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/conditional-spell-metamagic/) last for only 1 day per caster level, like the spell that it's based on, or does it last forever?

I want to cast Contiditional Spell Breath of Life on people to gain the ability to instantly kill someone that I've revived if they fail to meet a condition that I specify (such as "obey the intents of my commands that are directed at you"). Sure, I could just reanimate them as undead instead, but this way is cooler (and doesn't take up any HD from undead control pools).

On a side note, are there any items (or spells) in PF that automatically trap their wearer's/wielder's/owner's soul upon their death that I can cast Arcane Mark/Instant Summons on (I presume that dead people don't count as possessors for items, right?) or that can just automatically send their soul to a certain location? I know that there was a 3.5 spell that gave an item the ability to do that, but I'm looking for a PF one (or a PF item).

[upho]

Yes, it lasts for 1 day/CL. But there's quite a lot of stuff allowing you to boost your CL. Beyond that, you simply have to get efficient and creative with your Godfather mobster methods! I mean, in most cases 20-25 days should be more than sufficient for your poor victims to play their parts in your EvilTM schemes for world domination... :smallbiggrin:

Regarding trapping souls, I've got this distinct feeling I've seen something (item?) along those lines, working with create soul gem IIRC. But I can't remember what it's called, and a quick search didn't bring anything.

[ATHATH]

Yes, it lasts for 1 day/CL. But there's quite a lot of stuff allowing you to boost your CL. Beyond that, you simply have to get efficient and creative with your Godfather mobster methods! I mean, in most cases 20-25 days should be more than sufficient for your poor victims to play their parts in your EvilTM schemes for world domination... :smallbiggrin:

Regarding trapping souls, I've got this distinct feeling I've seen something (item?) along those lines, working with create soul gem IIRC. But I can't remember what it's called, and a quick search didn't bring anything.
Cacodemons, maybe?

So does that mean that the duration of Conditional Favor counts as a rule that's laid out in it (in Conditional Favor, I mean)?

I guess I can just recall my lieutenants every 10 days or so to re-kill and re-revive them...

[ATHATH]

Is there a spell that can be cast on an undead creature that can return them to life (NOT unlife) while skipping the whole "dead" bit in-between? I could make THAT spell a Conditional Spell spell...

See, the thing is, I don't want people to get around this by just dying (on a spur-of-the-moment decision, so I can't forbid them from plotting to die in a convenient location) and getting rezzed by someone who isn't me.

Red Fel, Red Fel, Red Fel.

He's probably dealt with soul-trapping stuff like this before; maybe he'll know.

[Jack_Simth]

Cacodemons, maybe?

And does the duration of Conditional Favor count as a rule that's laid out in it?

I guess I can just recall my lieutenants every 10 days or so to re-kill and re-revive them...
For most folks, habit will take care of it after the initial period. The first ten days are magically enforced, and the spell tells them that certain things will kill them if they try it (but only when they're about to do so). If they're not specifically aware that the effect wears off (AKA, no Spellcraft / Kn(Arcana))... well, they've been doing whatever you say for well over a week out of fear, and any time they started to do something that would go against you... they get a nagging dread. Most (not all) folks will stop trying to disobey in that period if they're not aware of the time limit.


Is there a spell that can be cast on an undead creature that can return them to life (NOT unlife) while skipping the whole "dead" bit in-between? I could make THAT spell a Conditional Spell spell...

Yes. Resurrection. Not because of anything in the Resurrection spell itself, but because of a weird clause in the Undead Type (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/):
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.(Emphasis added)

So in the same way that a flesh golem reacts differently to electricity, fire, or cold spells, an undead reacts differently to Resurrection spells.

[ATHATH]

Nice!

So I can create Manchurian Agents by reanimating someone as a malicious undead monster, casting Conditional Spell Resurrection on them, then letting them "escape"? A couple of days later, they'll transform back and either go on a killing spree or obey my remote commands (depends on whether or not I turn them into a type of undead that I can/want to remotely control).

[upho]

Nice!

So I can create Manchurian Agents by reanimating someone as a malicious undead monster, casting Conditional Spell Resurrection on them, then letting them "escape"? A couple of days later, they'll transform back and either go on a killing spree or obey my remote commands (depends on whether or not I turn them into a type of undead that I can/want to remotely control).No. Because the only thing which expires "a couple of days later" is the conditional favor/Conditional Spell part, while resurrection is instantaneous and its effect will remain an event of the past once the Conditional part has expired. The same is of course true if you decide to dismiss the conditional favor/Conditional Spell part (which you can if you can touch the unlucky "tool" you're using to carry out your vile plans).

What you want is instead for the Conditional part to be somehow remotely or automatically triggered before it expires, resulting in your resurrection being treated as if it never had been cast and your "escaped tool" therefore reverting back to whatever undead horror you turned them into before resurrecting them. Which I think would be pretty much impossible outside perhaps wish with GM fiat, since conditional favor was designed for the very purpose of not being triggered by anything other than the target knowingly violating whatever terms you set.

But if you only want your minions to infiltrate communities and then simply wreak havoc, why not whip up say a couple of ghouls or ghasts, allow them to level up enough to get Civilized Ghoulishness (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/civilized-ghoulishness) and/or maybe Skin Suit (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/skin-suit-monster/). (With luck, you can get one of them to take say a Hunter level or two and simply win through sheer style, because Allosaurus Corpse Companion...) And then send them in and have them start spreading their love, carefully and very targeted at first so you have at least some control over the development. But once "critical ghoul" has been reached, just having your expanding ghoul horde go complete Walking Dead is probably the best in order to minimize the risks of anyone suspecting your involvement... :smalltongue:


Yes. Resurrection. Not because of anything in the Resurrection spell itself, but because of a weird clause in the Undead Type (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/):(Emphasis added)Actually, in PF the spell itself (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/resurrection/) does explicitly state that it works on undead: "You can resurrect... ...someone who has been turned into an undead creature"

[Jack_Simth]

Nice!

So I can create Manchurian Agents by reanimating someone as a malicious undead monster, casting Conditional Spell Resurrection on them, then letting them "escape"? A couple of days later, they'll transform back and either go on a killing spree or obey my remote commands (depends on whether or not I turn them into a type of undead that I can/want to remotely control).
Not unless they're the sort of person who wants to be an undead.

Even without that, though... you just spent 10k in material components and an ... 8th? ... level spell slot to get ONE minion in a city. You could have instead cast Polymorph Any Object on an undead to turn him into a copper coin, dropped him in a leaded bag, and tossed him over the wall to get the same effect. Or just spent him. The spell will wear off in a couple of days.

Alternately, Daywalker (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/daywalker/) or Fleshy Facade (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/fleshy-facade/) will do the job.


Actually, in PF the spell itself (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/resurrection/) does explicitly state that it works on undead: "You can resurrect... ...someone who has been turned into an undead creature"
You are cutting that quote three words too early. It's actually the same wording as in 3.5.

[Kurald Galain]

Does the effect of the Conditional Spell metamagic feat (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/conditional-spell-metamagic/) last for only 1 day per caster level, like the spell that it's based on, or does it last forever?
The spell lasts as long as it normally does, which in the case of Breath of Life is forever, and it can be revoked (by violating the condition) for up to one day per caster level. And, it will be hard for the subject to loophole his way out of this, because Conditional Favor explicitly goes for the spirit of its condition rather than its literal wording.

The main catch here is that Conditional Spell requires a willing target.

[upho]

You are cutting that quote three words too early. It's actually the same wording as in 3.5.Doh! And Doh! again for apparently failing to understand the meaning of one short simple sentence not just once, but at least twice! And a final and third Doh! for somehow incorrectly remembering the 3.5 version as saying something differently... :smallredface:

Dang, my poor brain is really getting old...

But thanks for the heads-up anyways!

[ATHATH]

The main catch here is that Conditional Spell requires a willing target.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f49ELvryhao

Well, maybe it'll work the first time.

And yeah, I should have included an "Exist and do not exist at the same time by date XYZ" clause.

The idea isn't necessarily to get an undead creature inside of a city, but rather to get an undead creature near my enemy's loved ones, organization(s), and/or friends. Plus, y'know, coolness factor.

[Jack_Simth]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f49ELvryhao

Well, maybe it'll work the first time.

And yeah, I should have included an "Exist and do not exist at the same time by date XYZ" clause.

Time hop, blink, and probably a few other effects could potentially cover it. However... the effect explicitly prevents forcing folks to break the condition. If they have no method by which to do task X by time Y as required... well, probably won't trigger.

The idea isn't necessarily to get an undead creature inside of a city, but rather to get an undead creature near my enemy's loved ones, organization(s), and/or friends. Plus, y'know, coolness factor.This one (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/t/temporary-resurrection/) might do you better, if that's your main goal. Extend if needed.