Condition: Battered

[Trask]

Conditions are a good way of abstractly representing certain bad things that happen to people or things they suffer from. I think though that there are some conditions that could be added to be used to represent things that normally fall under the realm of HP. One such example is being "battered".

Consider a 10 foot flight of stairs. A 10th level character is fighting against an assassin who broke into his room at the top of the stairs. He considers shoving him off the stairs, but realizes (or asks the DM who tells him) that the damage it would be pitiful compared to his sword, and reasonably so. Making a tumble down a flight of stairs even a d6 damage is pushing it, considering that means a 1 in 6 chance of death for the toughest commoner alive. So instead of using the environment of the game in a cool way, and creating a cinematic moment you just have an attack fest. The only time the character might consider pushing the assassin down the stairs is in the case of an escape.

Now consider this. A 10th level character is fighting against an assassin who broke into his room at the top of the stairs. He shoves him off and the assassin takes 1d4 (or maybe none) damage and makes an acrobatics check (or maybe a strength save). He fails, and becomes "Battered". A condition that represents a relentless pummeling he has received that has left him less effective and a more vulnerable.

The condition models a character becoming physically weakened by physical damage, without necessarily reducing their HP. What HP actually means is incredibly abstract and personal, but to me it represents physical toughness, resilience, will to live, and luck. One of the problems I have with using the HP system for everything is that it makes HP feel more than pure meat, and can make characters feel too superhuman. I know we are playing a heroic fantasy game, but even in heroic fantasy pushing someone down stairs might be a valid way to batter them. Using the defense that "heroic fantasy = mundane things shouldnt affect me" makes the game feel more and more stale as it progresses into the higher levels, where nobody has any reason to use their environment to their advantage.

Other situations where a creature may become "Battered" are
1. Having a very large object smashed over them
2. Being Thunderwaved into a wall
3. Being thrown
4. Being reduced to 0 hp maybe

I think I've laid out why this condition could take up a place and not step on any toes or feel superfluous. But what should being "Battered" do mechanically?

Here are some spitballed suggestions

1. It impairs movement in some way. The assassin who was pushed down the stairs limping up after the hero who runs into one of the rooms to hide. So maybe half movement, or a simple 10-15ft speed reduction.

2. When you are battered you cannot take the Dash or Dodge action to represent more limited mobility

3. On the turn you are battered you are also stunned until the end of your next turn.

Any suggestions or thoughts on this houserule condition or its effects?

[Mith]

Conditions are a good way of abstractly representing certain bad things that happen to people or things they suffer from. I think though that there are some conditions that could be added to be used to represent things that normally fall under the realm of HP. One such example is being "battered".

Consider a 10 foot flight of stairs. A 10th level character is fighting against an assassin who broke into his room at the top of the stairs. He considers shoving him off the stairs, but realizes (or asks the DM who tells him) that the damage it would be pitiful compared to his sword, and reasonably so. Making a tumble down a flight of stairs even a d6 damage is pushing it, considering that means a 1 in 6 chance of death for the toughest commoner alive. So instead of using the environment of the game in a cool way, and creating a cinematic moment you just have an attack fest. The only time the character might consider pushing the assassin down the stairs is in the case of an escape.

Now consider this. A 10th level character is fighting against an assassin who broke into his room at the top of the stairs. He shoves him off and the assassin takes 1d4 (or maybe none) damage and makes an acrobatics check (or maybe a strength save). He fails, and becomes "Battered". A condition that represents a relentless pummeling he has received that has left him less effective and a more vulnerable.

The condition models a character becoming physically weakened by physical damage, without necessarily reducing their HP. What HP actually means is incredibly abstract and personal, but to me it represents physical toughness, resilience, will to live, and luck. One of the problems I have with using the HP system for everything is that it makes HP feel more than pure meat, and can make characters feel too superhuman. I know we are playing a heroic fantasy game, but even in heroic fantasy pushing someone down stairs might be a valid way to batter them. Using the defense that "heroic fantasy = mundane things shouldnt affect me" makes the game feel more and more stale as it progresses into the higher levels, where nobody has any reason to use their environment to their advantage.

Other situations where a creature may become "Battered" are
1. Having a very large object smashed over them
2. Being Thunderwaved into a wall
3. Being thrown
4. Being reduced to 0 hp maybe

I think I've laid out why this condition could take up a place and not step on any toes or feel superfluous. But what should being "Battered" do mechanically?

Here are some spitballed suggestions

1. It impairs movement in some way. The assassin who was pushed down the stairs limping up after the hero who runs into one of the rooms to hide. So maybe half movement, or a simple 10-15ft speed reduction.

2. When you are battered you cannot take the Dash or Dodge action to represent more limited mobility

3. On the turn you are battered you are also stunned until the end of your next turn.

Any suggestions or thoughts on this houserule condition or its effects?

My thoughts:

1) 10' reduction in movement, compare it to being inproficent with armour you are wearing
2) I like this
3) While I get the idea of what you are doing here, I think putting Battered as an "in between" to Stunned and fine is a better way to do it, so just give disadvantage on STR & DEX Saving Throws, and to speak clearly requires a Concentration check, so spells are still possible.

I like the idea of this for when people feel like there should be a consequence that doesn't involve you unable to take a prisoner because you Repelling blasted someone into a wall, and the impact killed him.

[stoutstien]

Rolling down stairs should at least result in prone which could lead to a round of attacks with advatage

[Trampaige]

In real life, falling down a flight of stairs does regularly kill people, if not horribly maim them if they are unlucky. A friend of mine was in the shape of his life and a practitioner of martial arts for years when he missed a step and compound fractured his leg in 3 places after falling down a flight of stairs. It ruined his life and left him permanently disabled.


Reflex or Fort save to avoid the penalties of incapacitated or stunned seems perfectly fine for 5e.

Or how about the staggered condition from 3.5/pathfinder?

[bid]

So, a weak version of stunned?

[the secret fire]

Can we get Condition: Offended next?

[Vorpalchicken]

Most folks would be commoners and they would indeed have a good chance of being done in by stairs. More heroic types would only be ended if their luck (hp) had run out. Still, taking damage, being prone and facing difficult terrain to get back into the fight (and perhaps another push) may make the maneuver worth while. The fighter need only give up one attack of his two or three to try this.
I don't think another condition is merited. But a spontaneous ruling by a DM would be acceptable.

[Kane0]

You might want to incorporate Vulnerability somehow. Its notably underused

[MaxWilson]

Rolling down stairs should at least result in prone which could lead to a round of attacks with advatage

Per PHB rules, taking falling damage always results in going prone.

@OP, if I were you I'd simply increase falling damage. HP in 5E are inflated by roughly 3x (my estimate) relative to AD&D, so falling damage should be 3d6 per 10' or 1d6 for 5'. Now shoving someone off the edge of the stairs is a viable combat tactic once again, especially considering the BFR (battlefield removal) aspects. Shoving someone off a 20' roof is just brutal.

Scale up falling damage by creature size as desired, e.g. 2x damage per size category over Medium.

[Asmotherion]

My thoughts, and some questions.

A) Falling down stairs has a chance of breaking your neck, leaving you paralised for life or killing you. 1d6 is at the very least generous. At least considering a real life person a "commoner" or a level 1 character, wile a character with more levels would "know how to fall" to reduce the lethality of the impact due to him being more awesome I suppose? Just wanted to put my input on this.

B) Why would you need a new condition, instead of effectivelly enforcing existing ones?
For example:
Clubbed to the head? Con check, or enforce the Stunned Condition.
Fall? Prone Condition, and Con Check or enforce the Incapaciated Condition.

C) Actually, what you're looking for looks a lot like the Incapaciated Condition (perhaps with repeating checks over round?). At least in my perspective. Look it up.

[Theodoxus]

Can we get Condition: Offended next?

Quickly followed by Condition: Triggered :smallfurious:


You might want to incorporate Vulnerability somehow. Its notably underused

I was thinking this reading the OP before hitting the examples.

[stoutstien]

The way it would run at my table, fighter shoves assassin. Assassin fails check and tumbles down stairs taking 1d6 Blunt damge for every 5 feet worth of stairs ending prone. Assassin stands up and starts back up stairs and get a table tossed at his/her head potentially pinning them against the wall.

[Mellack]

Why would the stairs not already be a good tactic by the standard rules? Fighter gets his first attack, then uses his second to shove. If the assassin fails the check, they take 1d4 or 1d6, and are now prone at the bottom. This also means they can't both get up and run back (assuming 30' move, 15' to stand up then they don't have enough to go up 10' of difficult terrain). It already makes sense by the rules for the fighter to use this without adding new rules.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think there's a certain virtue of having a "you just got hit really hard" condition, particularly given 5e's emphasis on simplicity-- kind of a stripped down version of Star Wars Saga Edition's condition track.

That said, if you want to keep high level characters anchored to reality, a simpler way to do it might be to frame environmental damage as a PERCENTAGE of your total health. Getting tossed in a fire deals 10%. Getting thrown down the stairs deals 5%/5ft. And so on. You could add a flat DC save to allow high level guys to be a bit more resilient without being superhuman.

[Trask]

Thanks for the responses. Ill try to address and clarify.

As far as "incapacitated" and "stunned" goes, I think those are too harsh for what I'm trying to represent. My idea for the condition is like a halfway point between being totally impaired and being fine. The hero was lashed to a pole and pummeled with padded sticks by peasant cultists or was nearly trampled by a horse but managed to get pushed out of the way. They just got beat up and need to catch their breath.

To those that say its unnecessary I see where you're coming from but I think theres value in having a condition that represents a character becoming physically fatigued and worn down without having to reduce their HP which 1. doesnt actually affect their performance and 2. might not make sense in a situation where what is happening is not lethal. In my personal DMing style, I dont inflict damage unless I think what is happening is lethal, even if its only 1 point of damage, that could potentially be fatal for someone.

Vulnerability is underused, and I'm intrigued by the possibility of using it but its also incredibly harsh for whoever gets it.

More falling damage isnt really what I mean either because the ultimate result of increasing damage is just knocking someone out cold. And reducing HP doesnt (and shouldnt imo) have a spiraling effect.

I was also thinking about how long the condition could last, and I think I would make it a general (can be overruled by specific cases or effects) that when you become "battered" it disappears on either a short rest or after 10 minutes. Long enough to last for a fight but not long enough to really become crippling. And lesser restoration can remove it.

[Kane0]

Staggered
- Knocked Prone
- Vulnerability to Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing damage
Basically a more severe version of knocked Prone without losing action economy

Dazed
- Unable to take Bonus Actions or Reactions
Basically a lesser version of incapacitated, which feeds into paralyzed/stunned/unconscious.

[Theodoxus]

I think there's a certain virtue of having a "you just got hit really hard" condition, particularly given 5e's emphasis on simplicity-- kind of a stripped down version of Star Wars Saga Edition's condition track.

That said, if you want to keep high level characters anchored to reality, a simpler way to do it might be to frame environmental damage as a PERCENTAGE of your total health. Getting tossed in a fire deals 10%. Getting thrown down the stairs deals 5%/5ft. And so on. You could add a flat DC save to allow high level guys to be a bit more resilient without being superhuman.

I did this when my players ended up in 1968 West Berlin when they encountered modern firearms.

Rifles were doing 33-66% of health on a hit, based on the roll. My level 15 players were truly scared for the first time in a while. It was glorious.