Ideal 4th member

[Ethernil]

In a group consisted of a warblade, a swift hunter and a wizard what would the fourth member be most useful as? I suppose divine caster, most likely cleric, maybe even some bard using wands for healing? Some builds for a support oriented character fitting that spot? Everything wotc 3.5 including magazines is allowed but no pathfinder. Also take into consideration that the members are bad to mediocre at optimizing so no crazy solo campaign stuff.

[Cosi]

It depends on what the Wizard is going for. If he's built to buff the party, I'd probably roll a DMM:Persist Cleric with spell choices aimed at survivability as an extra warm body for buff effects with the capacity to save the party's bacon in situations they can't handle and access to status removal effects. Even if he's not built that way I'd probably still go Cleric (restoration is important for any party), but I'd look to provide buffs myself. With two martial characters, one of whom is likely to be making lots of attacks, any kind of AoE buff effect is going to be a pretty good force multiplier. You could go DFI Bard, but Bards generally lend themselves towards Bardblade or Sublime Chord, which would tread on other player's toes.

[Snowbluff]

I like bards as a flexible character. They can buff other characters and have good skills.

Clerics and druids are up there as well, having good casting ability and can also fight.

[Quertus]

So, it depends. Is the adventure as bad to mediocre as the party? Does the GM pull his punches, or would he, like me, present the world as it is, let the dice fall where they may, and not lose any sleep over a well-earned TPK?

In either event, I'd recommend a Cleric. There are too many nasty status effects - including, btw, "wounded" and "dead" - that you'll have a hard time dealing with otherwise.

Now, if the adventure is as suboptimal as the party, then I'd run the Quertus of Clerics: reasonable defenses, heavy on the bandaids, and utterly tactically inept. Randomly throw the most powerful, cheesiest attacks... at creatures that are immune to them. Or at doors... without checking if they're locked first. Be simultaneously all powerful... and completely ineffective. I'd go for humor in such an event.

In a real adventure? I'd build about the same Cleric, but play him well, and try to carry the team. I'd be Thor, of Thor (and the Avengers).

However, depending on what skills you've got covered, Arcane Spellcaster could take up the slack on needed skills, and pick up whatever spells (largely healing and status removal, presumedly) you need. And do so on a weaker chassis, lacking the full capabilities of the Cleric. This might be the easiest way to simultaneously give the party a chance without having to hold back while playing the character.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The RKV build in my signature. Or a mind mage. Mind mages are the best.

[Nifft]

What sorts of problems does the party have?

- "We're ability-damaged, blind, cursed, half our HP are gone... and it's only quarter past breakfast." -> Cleric

- "All that stuff right above, plus we need someone to handle Knowledge or talking checks." -> Cloistered Cleric

- "We all hit stuff but we want to hit stuff harder, while on fire. Also we're bad at talking." -> Bard

- "We need a frontline tank or two and more BFC, plus some healing would be nice, oh and if you could just win a fight or two on your own that'd be great." -> Druid

- "We need an endless source of disposable fodder to front-line for us, plus if you could just dominate enemies so they become front-line fodder that'd be super." -> Telepath / Thrallherd

- "We need a goddamn Kobold." -> Dragonwrought Sorcerer, this is probably overkill

[Eldariel]

Another Wizard, Archivist, Artificer, Cleric, Druid or whatever; they can all fill more or less the same role. A caster with 9ths is clearly the way to go and you probably do want to ensure you can remove all the conditions known to man.

[Luckmann]

I realize that this is supremely unhelpful and may sound like a cop-out, but the ideal 4th member would be a character that the player genuinely wants to play and that the player does something interesting with.

We can discuss intricacies of RAW and optimization and the best class combinations with various combos, but at the end of the day, come game time, there's absolutely no substitute for genuine interest and the drive that comes with playing a character the player enjoys.

So in a nutshell, don't try to fit in like a piece in a puzzle, but more like an interesting addition to a play-dough sculpture.

[DeTess]

What's your campaign about? If you're going to do a massive dungeon crawl, cleric or crusader will do fine. If you're going to be interacting with the world at large, you're probably going to need a face though, so a bard, beguiler, rogue or Dragonfire-adept will serve your needs better. I think anything that doesn't intrude on your swift-hunter's skill-specialization will be fine if this is a fairly casual campaign, though.

Anyway, if I was a member of your group, I'd suggest Bard, because I like to have talking open as an option to us.

[Ethernil]

I am the dm and we will be playing the shackled city, the entire campaign. I m just helping the group optimize so that i can use harder and more interesting encounters.

[Nifft]

I am the dm and we will be playing the shackled city, the entire campaign. I m just helping the group optimize so that i can use harder and more interesting encounters.

If it's a DMPC / NPC then consider a Cloistered Cleric pacifist who buffs & heals & identifies loot & never stabs anything.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You've got a dedicated warrior, a warrior-skill blend, and a dedicated utility caster. I'd say you should round out with a divine-skill blend. Sapphire hierarch can fit the bill if you want to play with incarnum.

[Sheogoroth]

A 4 man band, (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FourManBand) eh?
Well, it looks like you've got the Smart Guy as the Wizard. I'm assuming the Hunter is the Cassanova?
Meaning the Warblade is probably the Only Sane Man.

That just leaves the Butt Monkey. I would suggest something with a lot of comic relief potential, maybe a drug-addict Alchemist who's high all the time?
Alternatively, you could go for supplanting the Casanova role by rolling a Bard, thereby forcing the Hunter into the Butt-Monkey role.

[Quertus]

I realize that this is supremely unhelpful and may sound like a cop-out, but the ideal 4th member would be a character that the player genuinely wants to play and that the player does something interesting with.

We can discuss intricacies of RAW and optimization and the best class combinations with various combos, but at the end of the day, come game time, there's absolutely no substitute for genuine interest and the drive that comes with playing a character the player enjoys.

So in a nutshell, don't try to fit in like a piece in a puzzle, but more like an interesting addition to a play-dough sculpture.

Actually, I thoroughly agree with this sentiment. But, then, I love the "how the **** do we make this group work?" minigame. It's far more fun than cookie cutter, paint-by-numbers parties, IMO.

Still, I felt that wasn't what the was asking.


I am the dm and we will be playing the shackled city, the entire campaign. I m just helping the group optimize so that i can use harder and more interesting encounters.

Oh, snap.

Well, then, help them optimize. Either directly, by telling them what to do to make someing other than wastes of paper, or indirectly, by killing them off with reckless abandon until they get the picture, and figure it out for themselves.

Do not do it by making Thor, god of DMPCs. That way lies GM horror stories.

[Mike Miller]

I am the dm and we will be playing the shackled city, the entire campaign. I m just helping the group optimize so that i can use harder and more interesting encounters.

I am currently running the Shackled City, too. The group is in the middle of chapter three, Flood Season, at the moment. I am also curious if you have a 4th player or are making a DMPC to round them out. The SCAP is actually intended for 6 PCs so if you are making a DMPC, I would recommend cleric. However, if you have a 4th player, I would recommend letting them be whatever and having them all gestalt because even with 6 PCs I have had one death, multiple unconscious, and even more close calls. Then, even if it is 3 PCs gestalt is a good idea.

I have a link in my signature to my podcast which includes my campaign updates if you are interested. Also feel free to ask me about the campaign in general if interested. Good luck, the SCAP has been much fun so far.

[zlefin]

My inclination looking at that lineup would be a cleric, or some sort of cha based divine caster (I don't recall the options for that being too good in 3.5) that can double as a face (as long that player is comfortable being the face).
you've got a solid front-line already; plenty of chars with either skill points or that benefit off of int, so you don't really need more skill power. druid might step on the swift hunters toes, so i'd rather take a cleric than druid.

[Mike Miller]

druid might step on the swift hunters toes, so i'd rather take a cleric than druid.

I feel like this depends a bit on whether the swift hunter is going melee or ranged. A druid would get along just fine if the swift hunter was taking the ranged route. If the swift hunter had a rogue level in there or some other sneak attack access (swordsage stance) and went melee he could work well with a druid, too. I think a druid or cleric would be just fine here, but the SCAP doesn't have a lot of outdoors stuff for the druid to feed off of (which won't be a big deal if this is a DMPC).

[Ethernil]

Initially the warblade wanted to play a stock fighter since he didn't know better, i showed him psychic warrior, warblade and crusader and he liked warblade more, crusader was a close second but he didnt like themaneuver recovery mechanic. The swift hunter wanted to play stock ranger but i showed him scout and the feat and he really liked the idea, he is going archer. The wizard will need some help with prc and spell choises as he has only played blasters. The 4th character will be a dmpc i will purposely keep below the group powerwise that a friend who can only play with us rarely will pilot sometimes.

[Mike Miller]

Have you considered gestalt? It may solve your issue without having to resort to a DMPC at all.

[Ethernil]

Have you considered gestalt? It may solve your issue without having to resort to a DMPC at all.

Thanks for the advice, i might have questions about the AP later. As for gestalt i suggested it and the players said they dislike it.

[Falontani]

DMPC is going to be an artificer. Your players sound like they know what they want to play, and might be able to role play, but optimization is not their strong point. So equipment is going to be their bane. Giving each of them good equipment and then standing back with scrolls/wands to buff/heal will be your best bet. You also can identify and help back up the swift hunter if it comes to traps. I would consider giving them access to use the DMPC in all non combat situations and clearly let them know what talents the DMPC has (IE trapping). If the melee ever needs assistance in melee the artificer makes a homonculus. The Homonculus will not steal thunder, just hits. Finally you could in character tell the party something like, "I am considering creating a contraption to assist in combat, do you guys have any ideas on what would help?" so they can help come up with something to assist them.

[Quertus]

The SCAP is actually intended for 6 PCs


Have you considered gestalt? It may solve your issue without having to resort to a DMPC at all.

Gestalt is good, but doesn't usually help with some things, like action economy.

If the AP is designed for 6, have you considered letting everyone play 2 characters? (And then maybe letting the extra player play one or more of those when he showed up?)

Of course, both of these solutions are potentially too complicated for your group.

I'm just not sure how an underpowered, understaffed group is supposed to have a chance at succeeding, though.

[Eldariel]

Initially the warblade wanted to play a stock fighter since he didn't know better, i showed him psychic warrior, warblade and crusader and he liked warblade more, crusader was a close second but he didnt like themaneuver recovery mechanic. The swift hunter wanted to play stock ranger but i showed him scout and the feat and he really liked the idea, he is going archer. The wizard will need some help with prc and spell choises as he has only played blasters. The 4th character will be a dmpc i will purposely keep below the group powerwise that a friend who can only play with us rarely will pilot sometimes.

If that's the case, the Healer-class is pretty good though Cleric works as well. Cleric seems more appropriate here with the goal you're going for: buff the martials, lay down crowd control if needed and act as a defensive powerhouse. Getting the martials Magic Vestment on their defensive equipment is pretty great in the long run and Tyche's Touch, Benediction, etc. are great early defensive buffs. Then you have Resurgence and company to deal with status effects. There's also the offensive half in spells like Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Recitation (which is also defensive), etc. that'll help people do things. And on top of all that throw in some Ice Slick, Dark Way, Nauseating Breath/Laogzed's Breath, etc. as necessary as control spells. All this combined will make for a character just as efficient as necessary that acts through the rest of the party. Add something like the Destiny domain to reroll stuff on your teammates and perhaps something that grants some other nice buffs (Hero-domain to eventually gain Giant Size?). And some stuff that synergises with whatever the Wizard is doing. Should be sweet. But yeah, it seems like the party could use a force multiplier and Cleric is a huge one.

[Mike Miller]

DMPC is going to be an artificer. Your players sound like they know what they want to play, and might be able to role play, but optimization is not their strong point. So equipment is going to be their bane. Giving each of them good equipment and then standing back with scrolls/wands to buff/heal will be your best bet. You also can identify and help back up the swift hunter if it comes to traps. I would consider giving them access to use the DMPC in all non combat situations and clearly let them know what talents the DMPC has (IE trapping). If the melee ever needs assistance in melee the artificer makes a homonculus. The Homonculus will not steal thunder, just hits. Finally you could in character tell the party something like, "I am considering creating a contraption to assist in combat, do you guys have any ideas on what would help?" so they can help come up with something to assist them.

If Eberron material is in play, I second this. Artificer could really help in a lot of ways, as Falontani said.

[Eldariel]

If Eberron material is in play, I second this. Artificer could really help in a lot of ways, as Falontani said.

It's also possible to run a non-Artificer crafter and that would conveniently keep the DM character a level or two down on the rest of the party though; I might go that route since getting a spell list to buff/defend with would be highly convenient as well, while Artificer infusions are a bit less powerful (though still solid, of course; but 6th vs 9th caster basically, though the one that changes bonus type and of course Metamagic Effect are gold).

[Doctor Awkward]

Inspire Courage focused Bard.

You have two solid damage dealers, and a wizard who can summon even more damage dealers.

[Ethernil]

Great suggestions, especially Eldariel. I was considering some kind of hybrid before, like rogue/cleric/shadowbane stalker or bard/druid/fochlucan lyrist, to not be as strong as a full spellcaster but thats gona be too complex for little effect. Druid is much easier to steal the spotlight so it is most likely a toss up between some cleric, bard or artificer build. The latter i have wanted to play as an own character in the past but i already have to deal with the dm book keeping and i m gona have a ton of extra stuff to keep track of. The thing is that bard high charisma is gona be half wasted as it will feel too weird taking on the face role as an npc...

So, in the case of cleric which is 90% probably what the character will be... builds/feats/spells i should keep in mind for a support focused character?

I have never actually played a cleric, i mostly enjoyed skill monkeys and Tier 3 classes. Being able once in a blue moon to buff and pick up the slack when the party is close to tpk is okish but being a dedicated killing machine is not. I have played with a dm who had an entire guild of uber dmpcs, their lieutenants being level 30-40 while we were 15ish... ye fight was so boring we decided to get flags and stuff and pretend being cheerleaders once, he didn't get the clue. Worst part is he was trying to get us in said guild from the low levels, the other players having played with him knew it and we tried to abstain but he did all he could, including imprison us and have said guild pay the ransom for our release so that we would "owe" them.

[Sleven]

If you're comfortable with psionics, the answer is Ardent. They make great simple/mindless heal bots capable of removing any condition (including death). They perform particularily well at this role when combined with Sangehirn. Egoists can do the same. Both are great at specializing in niches your wizard may not decide they want to fill (such as divination-based investigative work). Best of all, they're easy to build and adjust the power of based on power selection. Which is great, because it allows you to adjust their level of involvement to the party's needs.

I'm actually playing a psionic healer in a campaign right now, roleplayed as an empath (although we're an evil party and I'm also expected to fill other roles, so not all of my powers are benign or peaceable). The party was initiatlly skeptical of my ability to fill the role, but quickly recognized just how good psionic healing can be once we got into the game. Empathic Transfer alone can handle poisons, diseases, ability damage, and hit points; all of which are easy to mitigate the effects of on yourself.


(Hero-domain to eventually gain Giant Size?)

The hero domain is shaman exclusive.

[16bearswutIdo]

Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist imo. Not insanely strong, but strong enough to "jack of all trades" reasonably well. Works as a secondary front line (assuming your swift hunter is going to be using a bow primarily) and brings divine spells.

[bean illus]

If the AP is designed for 6, have you considered letting everyone play 2 characters? (And then maybe letting the extra player play one or more of those when he showed up?)

I'm just not sure how an underpowered, understaffed group is supposed to have a chance at succeeding, though.

Best idea. Really.


Inspire Courage focused Bard.

You have two solid damage dealers, and a wizard who can summon even more damage dealers.

Bard with a healing wand, but ...

Keeping the players from dying is LAME.
Letting them play 2 builds each ... lets you kill them ... (heh).
Really. Ask em an see what they say.

[Calthropstu]

Monk. Straight monk from phb. Build for grapple.

[Ethernil]

I went back to the opening of the adventure and it says it is designed for a group of 4 1st level characters, not 6. I have the hardcover combined form of the campaign, not the separate magazines over which was posted chapter by chapter if that makes any difference. I have read halfway through the entire campaign and i don't see any problematic fights.

I suggested to the players the ideas of gestalt and double character running and they said they don't like it. They suggested i roll a dmpc as they saw how i longed to roleplay something of my own and that noone else can or wants to dm at least for now, we generally enjoy roleplay(wizard being don juan chasing skirts,dwarf being a drunkard who likes weird food, the ranger making fun of the dwarf's height etc)as a group. At first i didn't want to because i was afraid it would substract my attention from running the world but then i decided i can do it.

The character i have decided to make is a defensive support oriented cleric. Help the warblade protect the squishies, buff people and offer healing outside combat. All the cleric handbooks i have found are for making codzila, ruiner of campaigns and slayer of gods. The help i need now is build suggestions for a cleric base(prcs etc), feat, domain and spells selection.

[bean illus]

I went back to the opening of the adventure and it says it is designed for a group of 4 1st level characters, not 6. I have the hardcover combined form of the campaign ..

...then i decided i can do it.

The character i have decided to make is a defensive support oriented cleric. ... All the cleric handbooks i have found are for making codzila, ruiner of campaigns and slayer of gods. The help i need now is build suggestions for a cleric base(prcs etc), feat, domain and spells selection.

Planning domain for free extend spell.

[Mike Miller]

I went back to the opening of the adventure and it says it is designed for a group of 4 1st level characters, not 6. I have the hardcover combined form of the campaign, not the separate magazines over which was posted chapter by chapter if that makes any difference. I have read halfway through the entire campaign and i don't see any problematic fights.

I suggested to the players the ideas of gestalt and double character running and they said they don't like it. They suggested i roll a dmpc as they saw how i longed to roleplay something of my own and that noone else can or wants to dm at least for now, we generally enjoy roleplay(wizard being don juan chasing skirts,dwarf being a drunkard who likes weird food, the ranger making fun of the dwarf's height etc)as a group. At first i didn't want to because i was afraid it would substract my attention from running the world but then i decided i can do it.

The character i have decided to make is a defensive support oriented cleric. Help the warblade protect the squishies, buff people and offer healing outside combat. All the cleric handbooks i have found are for making codzila, ruiner of campaigns and slayer of gods. The help i need now is build suggestions for a cleric base(prcs etc), feat, domain and spells selection.

There are tons of NPCs in this campaign. No worries about getting to RP as the DM. Keep in mind you don't want the DMPC to have a large RP role because you want the PCs to have the decision making spotlight.

[Quertus]

codzila is a fine base for a Cleric. Just add in a Ring of Spell Storing, and Persist all those (p)ersonal spells on the party, rather than on yourself.

[Nifft]

Monk. Straight monk from phb. Build for grapple.

For serious that as a DMPC might make the other PCs look absolutely awesome by comparison.

Like that one ugly friend you invite into your selfie background to make yourself cuter.

[Ethernil]

Is there any prc like war weaver available to divine casters?

[Eldariel]

No. However, there's divine metamagic: chain spell. So that might be something to look at. Add ocular/reach spell as necessary to qualify for the Chain Spell requirements. Though many of the better Cleric buffs (Recitation, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Magic Circle against X, etc.) are innately AOE so it might not be that necessary. Still nice though. And she can use Divine Insight/Guidance of the Avatar to skill monkey in a pinch too. Hell, it's not a terrible idea by any means to make her a Cloistered Cleric to help the Swift Hunter out with skill monkeying. Add skills to list with domains and feats if desired.

Really, much the same stuff works for support Cleric as for Clericzilla. Classes adding Domains such as Church Inquisitor, Radiant Servant of Pelor, Seeker of the Misty Isles, Divine Disciple, Divine Oracle, Contemplative, etc. are good for extra versatility. Pick Spontaneous Domain Casting in some good utility domain (Trickery, Time, Celerity, Travel, Transformation, Spell, etc. are all good options though a cooperative Wizard reduces the necessity of accessing arcane spells; Healing is also a much better choice than the standard Spontaneous Cures since it brings spontaneous Heal among other things).

Much depends on the alignment and race. Clerics can be built in any which way. I'd go Human with the at least Destiny domain for ally rerolls, perhaps with Chain Spell and DMM: Chain Spell as 1st level feats. Then pick up some Crafting feats like Craft Wondrous Items, Craft Magic Arms and Armor and perhaps even Craft Construct for Dedicated Wrights and such. Potentially also Rods, Wands and Potions in probably that order. The Wizard already has Scribe Scroll, so that is taken care of. Forge Ring late if ever. The Cleric herself might use Reliquary Holy Symbol [MIC] for extra turnings to fuel DMM: Chain Spell. Also a Nightstick if more is desired; that would necessitate Craft Rod, but that would be nice to give Metamagic Rods to the Wizard down the line anyways. DMM: Chain Spell could also be supported by taking Extra Turning or Undeath-domain granting Extra Turning once or a few times.

This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?514702-good-cleric-spells) covers some of the better caster Cleric spells (just skip out on some of the overtly offensive stuff like Create Ice Beast), though mind stuff like Benediction, Tyche's Touch, Protection from/Magic Circle against Evil, etc.

[Ethernil]

We will meet to make the characters today or tomorrow. I ve been through forums and books quite a lot and figured i like the radiant servant of pelor prestige class, with the spontaneous domain acf from ph2 he can spontaneously cast of the healing domain which the prc augments. What to fill the rest of the levels with? Church inquisitor does sound appealing. The character will be a neutral good human, party consists of good dwarf warblade, good whisper gnome swifthunter neutral human wizard.

[Eldariel]

Hmm, Church Inquisitor requires Lawful so he'd have to be Lawful Good. Not a problem you can't handwave away though.

Either way, that sounds like a fine way to go. Fill the spell slots up with buffs and control using spontaneous casting to heal if needed. Remember that Radiant Servant gets martial weapon profs so you can have him wield e.g. a Guisarme to protect his teammates with the reach attack of opportunity + trip. Don't go into Zilla but it's a solid defensive boon.

Extra Turning and Extra Greater Turning fuel Divine Metamagic: Chain Spell great so that seems solid. Other than that (takes your first 4 feats to take a metamagic feat, Chain Spell, Divine Metamagic and Extra Turning), the crafting route is probably still fine. This thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/5a1shr/35full_list_of_pelor_domains/[/url) contains the expanded list if his domains, which has some nice stuff. Pride in particular. If he has a decent Charisma bonus, Nobility Domain sounds perfect. Maybe even worth Extra Divine Power (DR343)

[Doctor Awkward]

Is there any prc like war weaver available to divine casters?

Technically, you can use War Weaver itself depending on the level of cheese your group is comfortable with:

If you take the Magical Training feat from Forgotten Realm Campaign Setting, you choose three cantrips that you cast as a sorcerer and you are now considered to have an arcane caster level of 1 to cast those spells.

Since you have an arcane caster level, this qualifies you for the Precocious Apprentice feat from Complete Arcane, which gives you a 2nd level arcane spell that you can now cast.

Taking the Sanctum Spell feat, also from Complete Arcane, which increases this to a 3rd-level spell when inside your designated sanctum.

Since you can now spontaneously cast cast a 3rd-level spell, you qualify for the Exalted Arcanist PrC from Book of Exalted Deeds. The Exalted Spell list feature on your cleric casting technically makes it now count as arcane spellcasting. You can now retrain Magical Training for Combat Casting.

This then qualifies for War Weaver. The biggest downside is that it requires a Charisma score of 15.

[Ethernil]

We re not anywhere close to that cheesy level of optimization. Today we rare makng the characters. I decided to go cleric 6 radiant servant of pelor 10 divine disciple 4, 5 if at some point way later we actually go into epic levels. Strong healing and antiundead powers, martial weapon proficencies to pull his weight in combat, really strong saving throws and imbue with spell, even if it comes late looks useful.

We are starting at level 1 so all this will take some time though. Thank you all for the useful advice.

[noce]

I often find that a couple wand charges is enough healing, so the swift hunter will cover it.

What you seem to lack is a trapfinder.
Given the two melee fighters, maybe a beguiler would be best (depending on wizard spell choices).

[Eldariel]

I often find that a wand use is enough healing, so the swift hunter will cover it.

What you seem to lack is a trapfinder.
Given the two melee fighters, maybe a beguiler would be best (depending on wizard spell choices).

Swift Hunter has trapfinding and a ton of skill points. Not to mention, HP damage is one thing but curses, blindness, disease, ability drain, etc. are quite tricky to deal with without a divine caster. And you miss out on numerous great buffs both offensive and defensive.

[Ethernil]

We rolled for stats, roll 4 keep 3 dice, 2 rows keep best. We all got very good scores. I rolled 16,16,15,10,10,9. How should i assign rolls?(cleric of pelor). I chose sun and healing domains aiming for the radiant servant of pelor prc.

[Eldariel]

We rolled for stats, roll 4 keep 3 dice, 2 rows keep best. We all got very good scores. I rolled 16,16,15,10,10,9. How should i assign rolls?(cleric of pelor). I chose sun and healing domains aiming for the radiant servant of pelor prc.

Depends on a few things:
- How much melee do you plan on him doing? Because if you want to use those Martial Weapon Proficiencies, you'll need to invest in strength accordingly.
- Do you plan on him using DMM: Chain as suggested? If you do, extra Charisma is of course dandy.
- How much skill monkeying do you want him to be able to perform? By default as a Human he'll have enough for Concentration, Knowledge: Religion and Spellcraft at 10 Int unless you go Cloistered Cleric in which case you drop 1 BAB and some armor proficiencies for 4 extra skill points per level (though mind, you can get by with the Sanctified Armor spells from Book of Exalted Deeds, Greater Luminous Armor in particular helps down the line).

All things considered, I'd say 16 Str/9 Dex/15 Con/10 Int/16 Wis/10 Cha. 16 Wis is obvious and you can never have enough HP particularly as someone with Shield Other on their list (a great spell, but can be risky unless you can take the punishment; a great candidate for Imbue with Spell Ability and summons/callings/etc. down the line though) so 15 or 16 Con. If you want to melee, you'll already be behind BAB so you don't want to be behind Str. As such, 16 Str and 15 Con. And Int and Cha are both important enough that I think you'll rather eat up the Dex penalty and wear heavy armor than go down to 2 skill points per level or 2 turnings and worse turning checks.

[Ethernil]

Ugh roleplaying a dmpc feels very weird, i will probably try to retire him during the adventure and try to give some other form of power up to the group if needed.

[bean illus]

Ugh roleplaying a dmpc feels very weird, i will probably try to retire him during the adventure and try to give some other form of power up to the group if needed.

Here's an idea...

Make him/her speak a different language. Some weirdo antique language like mayan or somethin', so nobody can possibly learn it without roleplaying +dm. He pretends he will take the skill to learn common, but can't find a free skill point, and neither do most players.
So he never receives directions from the party, or gives face, or etc. If s/he doesn't see it she won't respond.

She won't even know who to heal without an extra round of gibberish. lol

It'll be fun, and retire into a great npc.

[ericgrau]

A 2nd hard hitting melee or a 2nd arcane full caster like a wizard or sorcerer. Plus a way to use a wand of CLW/lesser vigor. For example pick paladin for melee, or get UMD somehow on a sorcerer. A casting focused cleric or druid could also work. And he can also use the CLW wand/lesser vigor on the side and scrolls to fix X conditions. Scrolls for fix X and divine utility stuff would be nice for the paladin too.

I think it's a trap to try to fill a missing niche in a party. Because then you waste an entire character on a minor problem. What you really want is as much dakka as possible while expending minimum effort to fill in the missing needs. You're missing some healing, divine fix it magic and utility magic. Solve those with minor class features or magic items as much as possible and play what you like.

If it were me I might fall back on BFC sorc who also buff spams the party and has a million utility scrolls. And then UMD the CLW wands. Either cross class (it's only a DC 20 with retries), or via a prestige class. You may have your own way to do the same thing. Except I wouldn't play what I said because I've already done it half a dozen times before. So then instead I might try to buff monkey & utility with another class while still have a major attack method. Or play a completely unrelated character concept I've always wanted to do that may or may not round out the party at all. Yet while loading it up on magical utility items plus CLW wands on the side to accomplish rounding out the party.

[Mike Miller]

Ugh roleplaying a dmpc feels very weird, i will probably try to retire him during the adventure and try to give some other form of power up to the group if needed.

If they need some other power up due to the DMPC method not working, just supplement their treasure with useful things. Give them more healing wands or increase the charges on the ones that are available. Look ahead and drop useful utility scrolls/potions/wands aplenty.