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MisterSaturnine
2007-09-15, 04:34 PM
I'm confused as to how enchanting weapons work--

First of all, before you add some property to weapon (like, for example the Merciful property to a Light Crossbow), do you need to make the weapon +1? In different terms, must a dagger be a +1 dagger before it can be a +1 flaming dagger? Or can you skip the whole +1 thing altogether and just make a flaming dagger?

Additionally, what does the +1 bonus even do? Masterwork already makes it have a +1 to attack rolls. Does +1 just add +1 to the damage roll, too? Am I misunderstanding this completely, and the +1 in front of the enchanted weapon just tell you the bonus?

Spiryt
2007-09-15, 04:38 PM
Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat. All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonus on attack rolls does not stack with their enhancement bonus on attack rolls.
Weapons come in two basic categories: melee and ranged. Some of the weapons listed as melee weapons can also be used as ranged weapons. In this case, their enhancement bonus applies to either type of attack.
In addition to an enhancement bonus, weapons may have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement +10.bonus.

Well, it's all pretty clearly stated here.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-15, 04:39 PM
A weapon has to be at least +1 before you can add special abilities to it. Same goes for armor.

kpenguin
2007-09-15, 04:41 PM
The weapon must already have a bonus in order to be enchanted with a special ability. You can craft a +1 rapier or a +1 keen rapier, but not a keen rapier.

That +1 bonus adds a enhancement bonus to damage and attack rolls. However, since a magic weapon must be masterwork, it already gets an enhancement bonus to attack rolls and since the effects don't stack, only the damage roll in modified. However, a +1 weapon has another advantage over a masterwork weapon: damage reduction. A +1 warhammer will bypass a celestial moth's DR, a masterwork one won't.

MisterSaturnine
2007-09-15, 04:41 PM
OK, I think I get it. This means that, say, a +1 twilight chain shirt would have a +2 enchantment bonus altogether? And a +5 vorpal longsword would have a+10 enchantment bonus, and thus be epic?

EDIT: Wow, lots of posts in a short time. Thanks for the help, everyone--it's crystal clear now.

Hunter Noventa
2007-09-15, 04:42 PM
A weapon has to be at least +1 before you can add special abilities to it. Same goes for armor.

I've always thought that rule a bit silly. my latest DMs have been house ruling that you can put whatever you want on it without the +1 before flaming nonsense.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-15, 04:42 PM
OK, I think I get it. This means that, say, a +1 twilight chain shirt would have a +2 enchantment bonus altogether? And a +5 vorpal longsword would have a+10 enchantment bonus, and thus be epic?

Yes on both counts.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-15, 04:43 PM
+1 tells you the enhancement bonus to attacks and damage. Since bonuses don't stack unless it says specifically that they do, the masterwork bonus doesn't stack.

Spiryt
2007-09-15, 04:46 PM
I've always thought that rule a bit silly. my latest DMs have been house ruling that you can put whatever you want on it without the +1 before flaming nonsense.

Well, as DM I always make the same way, with the items in shops or found during adventures.

I think that this rule should be kept when players are crafting/customizing somehow their own weapons. Otherwise things could go little cheesy.

Jasdoif
2007-09-15, 04:46 PM
OK, I think I get it. This means that, say, a +1 twilight chain shirt would have a +2 enchantment bonus altogether?It would have a +2 equivalent bonus, for the purpose of pricing and such, but it would still only have a +1 enhancement bonus to AC.


And a +5 vorpal longsword would have a+10 enchantment bonus, and thus be epic?No, +10 is the limit for non-epic weapons. It'd have to be +11 or higher for it to be epic.

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-15, 04:46 PM
OK, I think I get it. This means that, say, a +1 twilight chain shirt would have a +2 enchantment bonus altogether? And a +5 vorpal longsword would have a+10 enchantment bonus, and thus be epic?

EDIT: Wow, lots of posts in a short time. Thanks for the help, everyone--it's crystal clear now.

No. To qualify as epic, a weapon or armor has to have an enhancement bonus of + 11 or higher. However, the cost for this is extraodinary.

<enhancement bonus squared * 10,000>

Draz74
2007-09-15, 04:48 PM
OK, I think I get it. This means that, say, a +1 twilight chain shirt would have a +2 enchantment bonus altogether? And a +5 vorpal longsword would have a+10 enchantment bonus, and thus be epic?

Hmmm ... almost. There is no such thing as an "enchantment bonus." The price of a +1 Twilight Chain Shirt is indeed the same as the price of a +2 Chain Shirt. But it still only adds 1 to your armor class (compared to a mundane chain shirt).

The +5 Vorpal Longsword is indeed priced like it is +10. But it only adds 5 to your attack and damage rolls, not 10. And pre-epic items can go up to +10 effective bonus (in terms of price), as long as their actual enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls is less than +6. So it's not (quite) an epic item.

The advantages of a +1 weapon, compared to a masterwork weapon, are the following:
+1 Damage
Ability to overcome Damage Reduction x/magic
Ability to be enhanced with further magical powers like Merciful or Flaming
When resolving a Sunder attack against you, a +1 weapon has 2 extra hardness and 10 extra hit points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#magicArmorShieldsandWeapons)

Douglas
2007-09-15, 04:48 PM
OK, I think I get it. This means that, say, a +1 twilight chain shirt would have a +2 enchantment bonus altogether? And a +5 vorpal longsword would have a+10 enchantment bonus, and thus be epic?

EDIT: Wow, lots of posts in a short time. Thanks for the help, everyone--it's crystal clear now.
The chain shirt would have a +2 bonus, but only for cost purposes. Only the actual enhancement bonus (+1) would add to AC.

The +5 vorpal longsword would have a +10 bonus for cost purposes, but would not be epic. The epic threshold is any of: an actual enhancement bonus of +6 or higher; a special ability that costs +6 or more all by itself; a total bonus for cost purposes, including both enhancement bonus and special abilities, of +11 or higher.

Starsinger
2007-09-15, 04:50 PM
+1 tells you the enhancement bonus to attacks and damage. Since bonuses don't stack unless it says specifically that they do, the masterwork bonus doesn't stack.

But in Anti-Magic Fields, that +1 attack bonus frm masterwork comes back into play...

And in the Book of Ed there's a magic item which is a disrupting light mace without an enhancement bonus, but that's a special case. As a DM you can make Flaming Daggers with no enhancement bonus, but as a player you cannot.

OneWinged4ngel
2007-09-15, 04:52 PM
Yes on both counts.

Not quite, Fax. +10 isn't Epic.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-15, 04:53 PM
A house rule I've had moderate success with has been allowing the first +1 to be either an ability or a simple +1, but requiring that to get an equivalent +2 or higher, you need a +1. It empowers low-level players without harming balance at higher levels. In short, you can have a flaming greatsword, or a greatsword +1, but not a flaming shock greatsword without another +1 tagged on the end

Shas aia Toriia
2007-09-15, 05:33 PM
Fax, that's a good rule. In fact, I think I'll run it by my DM. I've always found it silly that you can't have a flaming longsword without it being at least +1.