Optimal Skill Proficiencies/Expertise for an Arcane Trickster Rogue

[Expected]

As a High Elf Arcane Trickster Rogue with the Custom Urchin background, I can choose 6 skill proficiencies in addition to Perception, which is mandatory because of the Elf racial trait Keen Senses, and 4 skills to have Expertise in.

My ability scores are 8-17-15-14-12-8 so I don't have the Charisma to be party face. I will most likely take the role of forward scout/trap disarmer.

Skills
Acrobatics
Arcana
Athletics
Insight
Investigation
Perception
Sleight of Hand
Stealth

Tools
Thieves' Tools

Expertise
Athletics/Investigation
Perception
Stealth
Thieves' Tools

I am having a difficult time choosing and would appreciate feedback. Should I choose one skill over another? If so, why? And if not, why not?

[Darkstar952]

This is a very difficult question answer, there is no single optimal choice for skills.

The value of any given skill will depend on the type of campaign being run and on the specific tendencies of the DM. For example one of my DMs almost never calls for investigation checks, everything is always perception, so no one ever takes investigation when that DM is running the game.

[Corran]

I like my character's to have a role in social encounters, that's why I usually like cha-based builds. So maybe it's my preferences doing the talking right now, but I would definitely expertise one social skill, even with an 8 in charisma. That would be enough to make you relevant in social encounters. I quite like expertise in intimidation, on a low charisma character. IME, persuasion checks are more important than intimidation checks. That may depend on the table, but still, a group can always use persuasion first, and if that fails, you start with the threats (assuming it's wise to do so). So, in a sense, intimidation can often act as the backup of a failed persuasion (kind of like the bad cop good cop act, though in reverse). Leave persuasion to the party face, and if they fail, then you come in. Besides, a low charismatic character with a high intimidation skill feels kind of natural to me, as IMO intimidation utilizes a different aspect of charisma than say, reciting poetry, making inspiring speeches, etc.

Expertise in sleight of hand seems like an obvious pick to me, for arcane tricksters, due to mage hand legendermain (or whatever that feature is called). Arcane tricksters have the edge at picking pockets, compared to other rogues, so not using expertise on sleight of hand feels like a missed opportunity to me. Avoid if you don't plan on stealing things on a regular basis.

Athletics expertise is mandatory if you are using shield master for some reason. Athletics (or maybe even acrobatics; I prefer athletics) expertise is also important, if you plan on using darkness or greater invisibility (at higher levels), as you don't want to get grabbed. You want to use BB, move around and hide, in an effort to be untargetable.

But there are so many good choices, that you can't go wrong. It all depends what skills you use the most, and that depends on how you play/ on what role you aim to fill for the party. Are you the scout? Then perception, stealth and survival. Are you a thug? Then athletics, intimidation. Are you a thief? Then sleight of hand, thieves' tools, stealth, and possibly investigation (or perception, if the DM allows you to use it for traps). Are you a detective? Investigation, insight. Are you an assassin? Then stealth and deception. Etc, etc. Think of a personality and a bit about combat, and mot of the choices will come on their own.

Edit: I think there is no general rule regarding this, as it depends entirely on how you want to play. But the closest I can come to a generalization regarding expertise, would be:
1) stealth
2) perception
3) social skill (one of persuasion, deception, intimidation, depending on how you see this character)
4) open to anything

[Edgerunner]

The value of any given skill will depend on the type of campaign being run and on the specific tendencies of the DM. For example one of my DMs almost never calls for investigation checks, everything is always perception, so no one ever takes investigation when that DM is running the game.

THIS /\

It's one of the reasons I hate Expertise until I get to know a particular DMs style of play.
With a New DM that Expertise you sweated over may just become Totally Useless for the entire campaign.

I like to talk to the DM beforehand, if possible, and ask When it comes to Skill checks, both Passive and Active, how/when will Perception, Investigation and Insight be used? OR Can I use Acrobatics instead of Athletics for X, Y or Z?.

[Rixitichil]

As others have said, it is highly dependent on your DM. That said, I have opinions:
Stealth is generally quite nice to make full use of Cunning Action.
Athletics or Acrobatics tend to be good to escape from Grabs and avoid trips. Athletics allows you to use these shoves and grabs yourself.
A Charisma based interaction skill is usually worthwhile if you want to do anything in the social pillar of the game.
Perception/Insight/Investigation are all very good defensive skills for not walking into traps, ambushes or trusting shape-changers.
I've found History to be a surprisingly good general knowledge skill, but I know a lot of DM's prefer to use straight Int. checks.

[Naanomi]

Sleight of Hand and Theives’ Tools work with the Mage Hand abilities of the AT; and stealth/perception are generally good choices (because of their nature as contested skill checks)... not knowing more about the campaign I may be inclined towards these four

[Expected]

This is a very difficult question answer, there is no single optimal choice for skills.

The value of any given skill will depend on the type of campaign being run and on the specific tendencies of the DM. For example one of my DMs almost never calls for investigation checks, everything is always perception, so no one ever takes investigation when that DM is running the game.

True. I wish more DM's would use skill checks as they were meant to be used. Acrobatics/Athletics and Investigation/Perception are the main problems. I prefer to select skills based on RAW/RAI and not the whims of a DM.

[Expected]

As far as Charisma based skills go, which, in your opinion, is the most useful for an AT that can cast Illusion spells? Obviously, I won't be as good as the party face, but I would like to be useful in social situations.

[Blood of Gaea]

As far as Charisma based skills go, which, in your opinion, is the most useful for an AT that can cast Illusion spells? Obviously, I won't be as good as the party face, but I would like to be useful in social situations.
Deception, you can enhance your lies with Illusion, though there's an argument to be had for Performance and Intimidation.

[Expected]

Deception, you can enhance your lies with Illusion, though there's an argument to be had for Performance and Intimidation.

That is a good point. However, I know I do not want Intimidation proficiency because it goes against my character's personality.

[Blood of Gaea]

That is a good point. However, I know I do not want Intimidation proficiency because it goes against my character's personality.
So Deception or Performance then. :smallwink: