What Determines a Hit

[Galgano]

What exactly determines if I hit a creature? Does Magic Missile hit a creature? Does Fireball hit a creature? Does Eldritch Blast hit a creature?

[KorvinStarmast]

Have you read the rule book? At all?

Not all ways to damage a creature require an attack roll.
Magic Missile does damage without needing a die roll.
Eldritch Blast requires a 'to hit' roll.
Fireball requires that the target be in the area of effect.

Read the description of whatever spell you have a question about; it will indicate how damage is dealt to the target.

If you don't own the players hand book, download the basic rules and read the spell casting section. (http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/PlayerBasicRulesV03.pdf#page=78)

Also, read chapter 9, the combat section (http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/PlayerBasicRulesV03.pdf#page=69), which discussed various kinds of attack rolls.

[Lunali]

Are you talking about just hitting a creature, or hitting a creature with an attack?

[Galgano]

Nice to see some people just take questions at face value. Think about it. Why did I ask those three types? They all deal damage in different ways. Magic missile does guaranteed damage, Fireball does damage on a failed save (or half as much on a successful one), and eldritch blast is just a basic attack type that requires the player to roll a d20. These are all different types of attacks. I am asking if each of these types counts as a hit. Would you rather I ask the same question that has been asked 50,000 times ("Does magic missile proc hex's extra damage?")and gotten the same response 50,001 times? Or should I ask something new? Shake things up a bit? But, no. I guess people would rather complain about getting asked the same question over and over again instead of a new question. If my question is unclear, you can always ask for clarification like the second guy did.

Regarding hitting or hitting with an attack, that's what I'm here to find out. The specific scenario I'm trying to get a ruling on concerns a warlock with the Lifedrinker invocation throwing a pacted javelin of lightning. If there are enemies in the way, do they feel the effects of lifedrinker?

[Millstone85]

These are all different types of attacks.No they aren't. Not in 5e game terms. Of your three examples, only eldritch blast involves an attack. This also means that only eldritch blast deals damage on a hit, as opposed to dealing damage on a failed save or automatically.

[LordEntrails]

Nice to see some people just take questions at face value. Think about it. Why did I ask those three types? They all deal damage in different ways. Magic missile does guaranteed damage, Fireball does damage on a failed save (or half as much on a successful one), and eldritch blast is just a basic attack type that requires the player to roll a d20. These are all different types of attacks. I am asking if each of these types counts as a hit. Would you rather I ask the same question that has been asked 50,000 times ("Does magic missile proc hex's extra damage?")and gotten the same response 50,001 times? Or should I ask something new? Shake things up a bit? But, no. I guess people would rather complain about getting asked the same question over and over again instead of a new question. If my question is unclear, you can always ask for clarification like the second guy did.

Regarding hitting or hitting with an attack, that's what I'm here to find out. The specific scenario I'm trying to get a ruling on concerns a warlock with the Lifedrinker invocation throwing a pacted javelin of lightning. If there are enemies in the way, do they feel the effects of lifedrinker?
So you're playing games not asking the question you want to ask because it has already been asked 50,000 times and you don't like the answers so you thought it you played some sort of word game people would magically give you the answer you want so you can run back to your table and use it to support what you want?

That's all kind of dishonest.

[Millstone85]

The specific scenario I'm trying to get a ruling on concerns a warlock with the Lifedrinker invocation throwing a pacted javelin of lightning. If there are enemies in the way, do they feel the effects of lifedrinker?I just looked that weapon up. It is pretty cool, turning into a ligthning bolt then back into a javelin right before reaching the target. But the ranged attack, and possible hit, is only against said target. Enemies in the way are not hit, whether they fail their Dexterity save or succeed for half damage. They wouldn't feel the effects of Lifedrinker.

[Galgano]

So you're playing games not asking the question you want to ask because it has already been asked 50,000 times and you don't like the answers so you thought it you played some sort of word game people would magically give you the answer you want so you can run back to your table and use it to support what you want?

That's all kind of dishonest.

Actually no. For one, my character isn't a warlock; he's a dual axe wielding barbarian/paladin named Brolaf (complete with personal headgear and everything). I just read a forum thread posted not too long ago about the best warlock spells or some such. Since I haven't ever really looked into warlocks before (did you know they can only cast a few spells? Because I didn't) I decided to read up on them. Also, (at least the copy of the rules I'm looking at) hex specifically says when you attack and life drinker says when you hit. I was asking for clarification on if a hit is considered an attack and vice versa. Also, the question I wanted to ask wasn't even the $50,000 question. It doesn't even have anything to do with hex or magic missile. I was asking for stuff beyond the scope of my desired question so that I wouldn't have to come back later and ask about a similar thing.

In conclusion, I apologize Lord Entrails. I was merely asking for a rules clarification since the book uses two different wordings for what is apparently the same thing.

[JackPhoenix]

Actually no. For one, my character isn't a warlock; he's a dual axe wielding barbarian/paladin named Brolaf (complete with personal headgear and everything). I just read a forum thread posted not too long ago about the best warlock spells or some such. Since I haven't ever really looked into warlocks before (did you know they can only cast a few spells? Because I didn't) I decided to read up on them. Also, (at least the copy of the rules I'm looking at) hex specifically says when you attack and life drinker says when you hit. I was asking for clarification on if a hit is considered an attack and vice versa. Also, the question I wanted to ask wasn't even the $50,000 question. It doesn't even have anything to do with hex or magic missile. I was asking for stuff beyond the scope of my desired question so that I wouldn't have to come back later and ask about a similar thing.

In conclusion, I apologize Lord Entrails. I was merely asking for a rules clarification since the book uses two different wordings for what is apparently the same thing.

Hex causes extra damage when you hit the target with an attack. That means it won't work with Magic Missile (no attack involved) or Fireball (same). Lifedrinker specifies when you hit the enemy with your pact weapon, again, requires an attack, and only with the pact weapon, nothing else.

[sophontteks]

did you know they can only cast a few spells? Because I didn't
They can only cast a few spells per short rest.
All other casters replenish spells on a long rest.
This means in a given day the warlock could be casting many spells.

[NaughtyTiger]

That's all kind of dishonest.

totally agree. then denies that he was asking about lifedrinker and lightning.

[qube]

Would you rather I ask the same question that has been asked 50,000 times ("Does magic missile proc hex's extra damage?")Yes. Because - desipite possible snarkyness of the person answering - it's still what you, apparently, want to know.

Trying to frame it differently does not spice up our life. Oppositely, it gives many of us the feeling you're trying to manipulate us into giving the answer you want to hear opposite to the actual answer.
As you can hopefully understand, most people don't like to be manipulated (or, the feeling that they are - wether you intended or not.)


> What exactly determines if I hit a creature?

your attack roll determines whether the attack hits or misses
(not much debate about it - it's verbatim, from the link posted by KorvinStarmast)

> Does Magic Missile hit a creature?
> Does Fireball hit a creature?

No, in both cases, as it doesn't require an attack roll

> Does Eldritch Blast hit a creature?

if your attack roll was succesful, yes.

> eldritch blast is just a basic attack type that requires the player to roll a d20. These are all different types of attacks.

They are not. Shove would be a different type of attack, or grapple. (And the only reason for that, is that they are in the section of melee attacks. Anything else, like fireball, ain't that lucky).

Other then life drinker or hex, it can also be important for, for example, the Sentinal feat ("When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you, ...")

Melee Sword attack? Sentinal, yes. Hex, yes.
Shove? Sentinal, yes. Hex, no.
Burning Hands? Sentinal, no. Hex, no.
Eldritch Blast? Sentinal, yes. Hex, yes.
Magic Missle? Sentinal, no. Hex, no.



> The specific scenario I'm trying to get a ruling on concerns a warlock with the Lifedrinker invocation throwing a pacted javelin of lightning. If there are enemies in the way, do they feel the effects of lifedrinker?

Well, lets see ...


Lifedrinker: [When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

and


Javelin of Lightning This Javelin is a Magic Weapon. When you hurl it and speak its Command Word, it transforms into a bolt of lightning, forming a line 5 feet wide that extends out from you to a target within 120 feet. Each creature in the line excluding you and the target must make a DC 13 Dexterity saving throw, taking 4d6 lightning damage on a failed save, and half as much damage on a successful one. The Lightning Bolt turns back into a Javelin when it reaches the target. Make a ranged weapon Attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes damage from the Javelin plus 4d6 lightning damage.

Wether or not the people in the way succeed on their save or not, you never attack them, ergo you never hit them, ergo lifedrinker doesn't trigger on them.
You make an attack against the final target, which if succesful, you hit, and in that case, lifedrinker triggers

[terodil]

I liked this question and appreciate the answers. Thank you.

Let me just say though, that the usage of 'hit' and 'attack' are about as far removed from everyday semantic use as a D&D fireball is from a D&D attack. :smallbiggrin:

Also, I'll keep this in mind for when one of my next chaotic evil spellslingers fireballs a group of guards. 'Eh guys, chill, it wasn't an attack.'

[Maelynn]

hex specifically says when you attack and life drinker says when you hit. I was asking for clarification on if a hit is considered an attack and vice versa.

[...]

the book uses two different wordings for what is apparently the same thing.

No they're not. They're worded differently, because there are differences.

hit with an attack

"if you're making an attack roll, you're making an attack" - PHB 194. Whether it's a weapon, your limbs, or a spell, if you have to roll a d20 then you're making an attack. So a proc will only happen if you roll high enough to hit the target with your attack. Example: Fire Bolt is an attack, Fireball is not.

hit with your pact weapon

this will proc if you a) use your pact weapon to attack and b) get a high enough attack roll to hit the target. Using another weapon and you hit with it? No proc. Using your pact weapon and rolling too low for a hit? No proc.

when you attack

again, an attack happens when you have to roll a d20 for it. Regardless of whether it's a hit or a miss, this happens every time you grab your d20. Example: a Ranger's Feral Senses lets you attack without disadvantage even when you can't see the target, whereas other people would get that disadvantage.


So the difference between Hex and Lifedrinker is twofold: 1) one requires a pact weapon and the other doesn't, and 2) one can proc with either a spell, a melee or a ranged weapon attack, and the other only with a melee weapon attack.


And as for not wanting to ask something obvious, you're better off just giving all information necessary - rather than beating around the bush and hoping to get a useful snippet that happens to be a wee bit of an answer to what you really wanted to know. Just be straightforward and say, hey I was wondering if x works with y, because it seems that they might but I'm not sure. Much better than asking A when you want to know B and then get sassy when people respond to the nature of A.

[JackPhoenix]

So the difference between Hex and Lifedrinker is twofold: 1) one requires a pact weapon and the other doesn't, and 2) one can proc with either a spell, a melee or a ranged weapon attack, and the other only with a melee weapon attack.

You can make ranged weapon attacks with your pact weapon if it's a ranged or thrown weapon. Or if you're using it as improvised thrown weapon even if it lacks the thrown weapon property.

In fact, you can even make spell attacks with your pact weapon, if you somehow get access to Steel Wind Strike or similar spell and use the pact weapon as part of the casting.

[DarkKnightJin]

And here I was under the impression that you looked to see if an attack roll was involved if there was any doubt if something is an attack.

Because you can't tell my that my Cleric casting Sacred Flame or Toll the Dead on someone isn't attacking them.

Same as that casting Fireball isn't attacking a group of enemies.

Yes, I know that doesn't really help much in the case of "Javelin of Lightning as Pact Weapon + Lifedrinker"

Personally? I'd allow Lifedrinker to apply to the Lightning bit as well. Because A max of +5 to that 4d6, DC13 Dex save for half.. Come on.
And it's a once per day feature of the weapon. Any enemies in that line are still 'hit' by the lightning.

And honestly, if they can get more than 4 people in a line for that effect.. The DM kinda dropped the ball on the enemy positioning. You don't expect the players to be nice and line up for your Blue Dragon to hit them all with it's Lightning Breath, do you?

It's a tiny bit of damage, and it'll let the Warlock feel awesome for that single attack. He has to wait until the next dawn before he can do it again, so it's not like this is going to be their main method of attack. That's still going to be their (Agonizing) EB. Or just poking things with their Javelin Pact Weapon for 1d6+Str. Or Cha if they're a Hexblade.

[NaughtyTiger]

Because you can't tell my that my Cleric casting Sacred Flame or Toll the Dead on someone isn't attacking them.

Same as that casting Fireball isn't attacking a group of enemies.


i agree with you on this, and that's how i play at my table.

Crawford however is very clear that the RAW and the RAI is that those are not attacks.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/01/15/is-magic-missile-an-attack/

[Millstone85]

i agree with you on this, and that's how i play at my table.

Crawford however is very clear that the RAW and the RAI is that those are not attacks.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/01/15/is-magic-missile-an-attack/I love his whole exchange with this Dodger guy.