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Merudo
2018-09-15, 06:17 PM
What is the most OP level 3 character that isn't a Moon Druid? It's a one-shot, so long term viability is not an issue.

Multiclass is allowed, and all published books are okay. Stats are picked by Point Buy (27).

I would say the Hexblade, or the Battle Master?

However some dips may be really strong, like Barbarian 1 for the damage resistance.

Expected
2018-09-15, 06:45 PM
At level 3, I vote for a Variant Human Path of the Totem Warrior Barbarian with PAM and ability scores of 16-14-16-8-10-8 wearing medium armor and wielding a glaive/halberd. You have Reckless Attacks for advantage, 2 attacks that apply Rage damage, potential for opportunity attacks, and not to mention the 50% damage resistance to all types except psychic. With this, you are tanky and have excellent DPR.

Rerem115
2018-09-15, 07:02 PM
Depends on the scenario; against anything with wings, archers/spellcasters are fantastic. If it's more of an intrigue kind of deal, Rogues and Bards are king. If it's a straight "We stand next to each other and whack each other", yeah, PAM or GWM Barb is the way to go. Warlocks and Rangers, especially Hexblades and Variant Rangers, are ridiculously front-loaded, so they also do well at that level.

One thing to note: Clerics, Sorcerers, and Wizards are never a bad choice, and the argument could be made for Bards as well.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-09-15, 07:18 PM
Winged Tiefling Hexblade/Tome Warlock with Agonizing Blast and Eldritch Spear? A strong ranged attack, flight to keep you out of reach when you can, medium armor and shields for when you can't, tons of cantrips and ritual spells for utility, extra hexing...

JakOfAllTirades
2018-09-15, 08:58 PM
At third level, a Tempest Cleric using channel divinity to maximize Shatter is crazy powerful. I mean like, shut down an encounter dangerous.

8wGremlin
2018-09-15, 10:16 PM
Vhuman Gloom stalker ranger hand crossbow user is good.

3 attacks first round for +7 to hit for 1d6+3 damage per hit.
Or hunters mark and 2 shots at +7 for 2d6+3 per hit every round.

JellyPooga
2018-09-16, 02:28 AM
Barbarian 2/Rogue 1 - Sneak Attack, Rage, Expertise, Reckless Attack. Need I say more?

Barbarian 1/Rogue 2 - As above but switch Reckless for Cunning Action.

Either of the above is a lot of fun. Athletics Expertise and Advantage on Str checks from Rage makes you grapple-tastic, Sneak Attack plus Rage damage makes even paltry looking weapons (I'm looking at you, Whip) terrifying, Medium Armour plus Shield gives you competetive AC and neither Reckless or Cunning need any introduction. Resistance to B/P/S damage is also solid.

Rogue 3 - 2d6 Sneak Attack. The single most reliable extra damage available over a long adventuring day at that level (and let's face it; one-shot games tend to spread resources pretty thin). PAM hasn't got too many damage buffs to really take off yet and GWM comes with a crippling to-hit tax, Smites are limited to a few per day, as is Hunters Mark/Hex, no-one has Extra Attack, or Haste...but Rogue 3? He's dealing 3d6 damage every turn, all day, every day. If he plays his cards right, that can double every now and then with OA's. That doesn't take into account GFB/BB either. I would look at something like;

V.Human Arcane Trickster 3
Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha : 10/15+1/14/12/13+1/8
Feat: Sentinel (Rogues love Sentinel)
Spells: Booming Blade, Shield plus whatever else you fancy
Expertise: Whatever (I like Perception and Athletics, but milage varies)

At level 3, this isn't exactly overpowered, but it's a lot of fun; you're mobile, tankish, deal high damage, versatile. On the battlefield, you'll dance around combat wrecking face and leaving a trail of foes wondering what to do; if they move they take damage (either from BB or an OA), if they attack you they'll probably miss (Shield), if they attack someone else they'll eat an OA (Sentinel). Dual-wielding Shortswords gives you a high chance of landing Sneak Attack and the option to use your Bonus Action on the offense OR Cunning Action gives you mobility and utility with Mage Hand Legerdemain.

Merudo
2018-09-16, 02:40 AM
Barbarian 2/Rogue 1 - Sneak Attack, Rage, Expertise, Reckless Attack. Need I say more?

Barbarian 1/Rogue 2 - As above but switch Reckless for Cunning Action.



Nice idea, but sneak attack only works with fitness weapons, while Rage only does extra damage if you use a weapon using strength. Still, it would work with a Rapier.

CTurbo
2018-09-16, 02:45 AM
Variant Human is the most OP race at level 3

So I will agree with Tempest Cleric, but to throw in another choice that nobody has mentioned...

I've found that Swashbucklers are extremely strong at level 3 easily being able to pull off 4d6+3 damage every single turn all day long.

Revised Gloom Stalker and Hunter Rangers are extremely strong at level 3, especially as archers.

Shout out to Fiendlocks and Long Death Monks with their 6 temp hit points per kill.

JellyPooga
2018-09-16, 02:53 AM
Nice idea, but sneak attack only works with fitness weapons, while Rage only does extra damage if you use a weapon using strength. Still, it would work with a Rapier.

It works with any finesse weapon. Whip, Shortsword, Dagger...whether you're rolling d4 or d8 for damage is fairly irrelevant when you're adding 1d6+2 to damage in addition to your Strength mod and you can always use Strength for the attack roll, regardless.

A Str 16 Barb/Rog is looking at 1d6 (base Shortsword) +1d6 (Sneak Attack) + 3 (Str) +2 (Rage) plus another 1d6+2 (off-hand Shortsword inc. Rage) for a total of 3d6+7 damage, or an average of 18 damage a turn if all goes well. Factor in a reasonable miss-rate and you're still looking at dealing a reliable 10+ damage every turn, on average. Wizards pay spell slots for that kind of damage at that level.

sambojin
2018-09-16, 08:20 AM
It's actually kind of hard to go past a Firbolg Cleric. Light or Arcana. Or the Zeal domain of UA if MtG stuff is allowed. All three levels.

One has nice damaging magic on top of a 30' AoE enemies-only short-rest "spell" for more damage, and has some defense.

The other gets you Wis-based Wizard cantrips, which is almost as nice as proper damaging magic. And a good frighten button that works against plenty of things.

The last turns you into a truly martial character while still having maximized shatter, and smites etc once per short rest. And bonus attacks if you go for a two-hander (you probably should). Almost a better tempest cleric. 3-4 encounters a day where something is getting max kaboomed or bonus action puree'd. And cleric stuff after that.

The Firbolg bit? Well, +2 Wis, some social/adventurey/stealthy magic and another defensive button to push (a very good defensive button, invis attack disadvantage until your next turn is huge at level 3). And speaking to animals just ups your available approach to encounters or social situations. +1Str isn't bad, and double carry capacity can be very nice too.

But basically, you buff, zap and bash. Probably not the most "powerful" by itself, but one of the most flexible to make you and your party powerful in nearly any situation. Not Moon Druid OP, but you'd never want for something to contribute with any of the cleric builds, even if it's just you bashing stuff as much as you can (which isn't bad) or throwing guidance on anyone doing anything.


I'd kind of slap Firbolg on any build to up the power at this level. Disguises, see magic and popping invis is great. Good for BMs too. Just makes a good "does other stuff than combat" race for nearly anything. Even Land Druid 3 isn't bad either if you don't mind being fairly slot limited but like a bit of wildshape (two free slots worth of natural recovery, and Draft Horses, Wolf Spiders, Velociraptors, Wolves, Elks and Giant Badgers aren't exactly bad at this level for reliable damage, utility and free HP. The elk is pretty good really). Want a monk? Make it a Firbolg monk. At least you get free magic. Want a Totem Barb? You guessed it. Firbolg! Not sucking at other stuff is power of sorts, but it makes already defensive builds even better at that too.

sambojin
2018-09-16, 09:38 AM
Actually wondering how good a Land Druid could be at this level. Assume another second level spell due to Natural Recovery. And that your wildshape is "competitive" compared to what other classes can do damage-wise (it sort of is at one hour a go of a free 10-19HP, and a "reasonable" attack with a rider or more damage).

Hold Person can splat BBEGs for your party's heavy hitters.
So can Heat Metal as a 2d6 auto-smite x 2-10.
Spike Growth absolutely destroys mook battles (6d4-8d4 damage is fine for a lvl2 slot in a 20' radius).
Flame Sphere does it's defensive/attacky thing.
PwT can let you stealth an encounter a day for the entire party (on top of potential +7 Spider stealth and proficiency for you. So, umm, +19 stealth when you want at lvl3 😂).
But even stuff like Faerie Fire can feel like a "we win" button if you can get it to stick against a BBEG or multiple mooks.

You can grab whatever defensive or utility spells you want from your land type.

Not sure if 3x2nd level druid spells and still-just-competitive-damage-wildshape isn't the answer here, at level 3.

What's the most powerful thing at level 3 other than a Moon Druid? A Land Druid.
2x short rest wildshapes really are that good at this level. So, really, any druid. Utility, damage, HP, all at about a lvl2 slot thereof, but you get an extra 2 slots of this stuff per short rest. Not even a Warlock or Fighter has that much "do the thing we need to do, now". Land druids are nice for the sheer slot power available over time (played smart, each lvl2 slot is an entire encounter, not just a big blip of damage. That's 3 encounters a day, done by you! With magic. And you've got lvl1 slots too! And wildshape! ).

Aaron Underhand
2018-09-16, 10:02 AM
A Str 16 Barb/Rog is looking at 1d6 (base Shortsword) +1d6 (Sneak Attack) + 3 (Str) +2 (Rage) plus another 1d6+2 (off-hand Shortsword inc. Rage) for a total of 3d6+7 damage, or an average of 18 damage a turn if all goes well. Factor in a reasonable miss-rate and you're still looking at dealing a reliable 10+ damage every turn, on average. Wizards pay spell slots for that kind of damage at that level.

A Dex 16 vhuman ranger with sharpshooter and archery style is looking at d8+13 or 17.5 with a slightly reduced hit prob (15% less). However...

Hunter's mark brings that to 21
And you have the option of another d8 if they are damaged OR another attack on an adjacent enemy (picked at character creation, not round by round).

Resourceless (ignoring Hunter's mark) that's a fairly reliable 22 or 35 in my experience... I prefer the extra attack, but ymmv...

McSkrag
2018-09-16, 10:27 AM
V.Human Arcane Trickster 3
Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha : 10/15+1/14/12/13+1/8
Feat: Sentinel (Rogues love Sentinel)
Spells: Booming Blade, Shield plus whatever else you fancy
Expertise: Whatever (I like Perception and Athletics, but milage varies)

At level 3, this isn't exactly overpowered, but it's a lot of fun; you're mobile, tankish, deal high damage, versatile. On the battlefield, you'll dance around combat wrecking face and leaving a trail of foes wondering what to do; if they move they take damage (either from BB or an OA), if they attack you they'll probably miss (Shield), if they attack someone else they'll eat an OA (Sentinel). Dual-wielding Shortswords gives you a high chance of landing Sneak Attack and the option to use your Bonus Action on the offense OR Cunning Action gives you mobility and utility with Mage Hand Legerdemain.

Don't forget you can get an Owl Familiar named "Owl Pacino" to give advantage on most attacks. Which means you could take Sharpshooter for 1d6 + 2d6 + 4 + 10 = 24 average damage a hit with a shortbow.

Aaron Underhand
2018-09-16, 10:37 AM
Don't forget you can get an Owl Familiar named "Owl Pacino" to give advantage on most attacks. Which means you could take Sharpshooter for 1d6 + 2d6 + 4 + 10 = 24 average damage a hit with a shortbow.

That depends very much on your DM. I've never had an owl last more than one round in combat, and I have DM rulings that prohibit Inspiring leader, casting Aid, or polymorphing to get more than the one hp... I completely discount all comments on familiars - useful scout, but that's pretty much it in games I'm in.

CTurbo
2018-09-16, 10:55 AM
That depends very much on your DM. I've never had an owl last more than one round in combat, and I have DM rulings that prohibit Inspiring leader, casting Aid, or polymorphing to get more than the one hp... I completely discount all comments on familiars - useful scout, but that's pretty much it in games I'm in.



From what I have seen in actual gameplay, owls have been reasonably useful in combat. They usually are not quickly targeted, and even when they are killed, that means that the enemy wasted a turn attacking it instead of attacking a party member. Of course you can't get away with using the help action every turn either.

Taebyn
2018-09-16, 11:07 AM
At level 3, I vote for a Variant Human Path of the Totem Warrior Barbarian with PAM and ability scores of 16-14-16-8-10-8 wearing medium armor and wielding a glaive/halberd. You have Reckless Attacks for advantage, 2 attacks that apply Rage damage, potential for opportunity attacks, and not to mention the 50% damage resistance to all types except psychic. With this, you are tanky and have excellent DPR.

Second this. Very strong action economy/dpr but consider different subclasses. Depending on party Wolf, ancestral guardian, or zealot could do a lot of work for you. It’s hard to go wrong with bear in the long run but this is a one shot. Have fun

McSkrag
2018-09-16, 11:16 AM
That depends very much on your DM. I've never had an owl last more than one round in combat, and I have DM rulings that prohibit Inspiring leader, casting Aid, or polymorphing to get more than the one hp... I completely discount all comments on familiars - useful scout, but that's pretty much it in games I'm in.

As a DM I have the monsters react to the owl based on their abilities and experience. That zombie is not going to target the owl, but a hobgoblin might target it after seeing it in action, and an enemy wizard would recognize it right away.

sambojin
2018-09-16, 11:34 AM
I guess a one-off is probably going to be a bit of a combat grind. But, if the DM doesn't throw anything else into it, it's going to be a silly adventure. So it probably won't be *just* combat.
I've thought about it. Land Druid 3. Choose your poison in what land. No-one else gets that much utility, free HP, spells and vaguely useful combat, alongside basic social skills. Well, other than Moon.

Firbolg it. 15+1Str/14Dex/12Con/8Int/14+2Wis/8Cha.
27pt buy.

Can do caster form melee combat. Has 6 spells to choose from each day. +2 for land, even if it's just to free up "gimme" choices. Has 4lvl1/2lvl2/+2floating slots worth a day. Tend to be 10 round long DoT spells, 3 times a day when the floats get lvl2'd.

2xCR1/4 wildshapes per short rest. Tend to be 10-19 free HP each. Actually can do acceptable combat. How much is advantage worth? People quote +5 to-hit at low levels. It's not. But if it is..... Lol.

Has short rest Disguise Self and See Magic on top of.
Short rest pop invis for enemy attack disadvantage until next turn.
Can tell animals what to do. You has goodberry bribes. Fed all day, and HP.

Scimitar and shortsword/dagger for caster form. Or just Shillelagh Quarterstaff/light weapon if magic resistant foes.

Movement/proning, free HP taken care off. Solid enough anyway. Kite with wildshape as spells mulch enemies well for their slot, or get in amongst it. It's still free movement/HP for the action after you cast your spell. And you've got bonus action effect spells.
Utility done too. You have several castings of spiderclimb per day due to wildshape. And a 480lb carry in caster form. You'll be fine.

Guidance equals ~+2-+8 stat points of skill for "stuff thingy". For you or anyone. Nearly as good as expertise, but for anything.

Gets an extra druid cantrip (it'll probably be druidcraft, bonfire or shape earth).

Could easily choose Sailor background to cover grappling and perception, to choose what skills you wish. BTW, sailors travel around a bit. They see ALL THE ANIMALS. Of the world. Easiest druid backstory ever :)

Anyway. Easy. Round. Solid. Powerful.
The most all-round powerful that I've come up with for a lvl3 thingummy.

Citan
2018-09-16, 02:35 PM
What is the most OP level 3 character that isn't a Moon Druid? It's a one-shot, so long term viability is not an issue.

Multiclass is allowed, and all published books are okay. Stats are picked by Point Buy (27).

I would say the Hexblade, or the Battle Master?

However some dips may be really strong, like Barbarian 1 for the damage resistance.
Hi ;)
For level 3, if you expect your campaign to be primarily city-based or "non-combat" based (either because you can avoid it, or because it's just about espionage/politics/thieving) your gut intuition of Warlock is right.

Specifically Tome One (honestly, all patrons are nice depending on what you're looking for: Hexblade is the safe bet for armor, GOO for the telepathy would be prime choices if only official content).
Extra cantrips, possibly access to all 1st and 2nd rituals or simply free magic with other invocations is very nice.

Close second on that kind of campaign would obviously be Sorcerer, with Subtle Metamagic.

For combat-focused campaign, I'd actually say Bear Barbarian. It has a big flaw, which is heavily melee, but it's efficient in offense and very resilient in defense.

As for "I don't know the heck kind of campaign I'll get into), well, my vote would be split between Tempest Cleric (solid defense + solid AOE + great buffs), Shepherd Druid (great utility + great healing + solid offense, could suffer on defense unless Variant Human with Magic Initiate feat for Mage Armor) and Devotion/Vengeance Paladin (good all-around, extra reliability when needed with Sacred Weapon/Enmity depending on if you focus on one enemy or not).

(Honestly, these are suggestions, biaised by past play experience and on-the-fly "intuitions". I think experienced people here could make a strong case of "OPness" of most classes ^^).