Need help deciding on barbarian vs. fighter with rolled stats

[Want2mess]

Hi there everyone, this is my first time posting in this forum so I hope I'm in the right place to get some help!

My group and I are making new characters starting at level 7 and I'm unsure which class I should go. We rolled stats in order, so we all have pretty good stats and our DM throws difficult encounters at us regularly so I would like to be pretty well optimized.

My base stats are: 17 Strength, 15 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 14 Wisdom, 8 Charisma

We get a free feat at level 1 and variant human is banned, and since we are starting at a higher level we all get one uncommon magic item of our own choice, plus two magic items that our DM will create or roll for. Plus 1500 gold and any armor under plate (plate will cost 1000 of our starter gold if we want it).

There will be 5 maybe 6 players total, and so far we have a rogue, a wizard, one player is either playing a druid (spore) or a sorclock (optimized for blasting), and then one person is still undecided but based off of their stats they will most likely be a charisma caster or a dex fighter or monk (we rolled 2 sets in order and choose between them). There is potential for one more person, however they would most likely be joining after we start and would choose their character based off of what we already have in the group.

I'm pretty much trying to decide between barbarian and fighter, but I am very open to different ideas if I'm missing something.

I basically have 3 ideas:

1. Ancients barbarian with shield master/brawny/resilient dex (at level 8) to be extremely tanky, decent AC (not using reckless attacks), advantage + proficiency in dex saves, and advantage (while raging) + expertise in using the shield master shove to knock enemies prone to help control the battlefield. The thing I'm worried about is that we have a lot of ranged characters especially if one player goes the sorclock build, and knocking someone prone has negative synergy with that.

2. Totem Barbearian with the classic PAM/GWM/Sentinel (wouldn't get 3rd feat until level 8). The reason for this is it's a nice middle ground between full tank and going for more of a DPR fighter, while still tanking well due to rage and damage resistance from the bear totem. Also the PAM/Sentinel is a different form of battlefield control that doesn't knock enemies prone so it will synergize better with all of our long range people. The problem with this build is that it's very feat heavy and with my stat array, the better barbarian races leave me with 19/17 strength and con that I wouldn't be able to even out until level 12.

3. Battlemaster Fighter with the classic PAM/GWM/Sentinel (Tunnel Fighter is banned). This is definitely more DPR oriented (I've read a LOT of math about it on these forums) while still offering even MORE battlefield control due to superiority dice, but it sacrifices overall tanking ability which could be very important for our group if our undecided player doesn't go spore druid.

The plan is for this campaign to go to level 20 and keep playing at that level, so I probably wouldn't multiclass (although barb 17/champ 3 looks really fun) since both classes capstone are very good, and I truly believe we can make it to 20 so that's why I'm taking character creation very seriously.

We can use pretty much any Wizard's Coast content, including UA at the DM's discretion. If there's anything I left out please let me know, otherwise hit me with some builds, or tell me why mine don't work! I've only ever played Cleric and a bit of Warlock so I really appreciate the help with martial character builds!

[bid]

My base stats are: 17 Strength, 15 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 14 Wisdom, 8 Charisma
Half-elf would even out those odds. Mountain dwarf also gives you good starting stats.
I feel Con18 is not worth enough to need a racial bonus there.

Resilient(Dex) is not that necessary with danger sense. Failing Wis saves can put you out of combat.

Tanking doesn't work all that well without aggro control. Any commited group can zerg past you, you'll stop at most one of them. When you use 2-handers, you do enough damage from AO that they won't try to zerg you.

Class-wise, BM should pick riposte and precision, with maybe menacing as the 3rd maneuver. If you have a rogue, he'll love you if you use commander on him.
Remember that whatever edge in DPR is less than the chunkiness of enemy hp, you should concentrate on utility over pure damage. For instance, if you were going sword and board I would recommend figher 11 / rogue 9 over pure fighter even if the 4th attack ups the DPR. It does not apply to your polearm build, but maybe you can find life outside combat.:smallbiggrin:

[MaxWilson]

3. Battlemaster Fighter with the classic PAM/GWM/Sentinel (Tunnel Fighter is banned). This is definitely more DPR oriented (I've read a LOT of math about it on these forums) while still offering even MORE battlefield control due to superiority dice, but it sacrifices overall tanking ability which could be very important for our group if our undecided player doesn't go spore druid.

You could take the same chassis (PAM/GWM/Sentinel) and simply switch from Battlemaster to Eldritch Knight for more tanking.

An alternate approach would be to go Barbarian 1/Moon Druid 6 with Sentinel feat and do your "tanking" as a Giant Constrictor Snake. You've got 120 HP per short rest (Giant Constictor Snake = 60 HP, x2 per short rest) and 2 Rages per long rest when you need them. If you can get someone to cast Mage Armor on you your AC goes up to 15, and you have the option of Dodging if you want to since Sentinel will still give you reaction attacks if enemies try to attack other PCs. (Your job as a tank is not to be attacked--it's to prevent other PCs from being attacked. Anything that makes enemies want to not attack other PCs means you're doing your job correctly.)

The nice thing about this option is that since you have a ranged-heavy party, they will benefit a lot from the fact that you grapple and restrain enemies: anyone you have restrained can be attacked at advantage by your ranged buddies. (And of course it can't move, so all it can do is try to attack your AC 15, at disadvantage.)

Bonus: if you're not raging, you can add a metric ton of other tanks to the party via Conjure Animals and later on Conjure Woodland Beings (a.k.a. Summon Quicklings :)). It almost doesn't matter what kind of animals you get--eight of anything is great, or you can try to summon another Giant Constrictor Snake if you want to keep things simple. (You're not guaranteed to get another big snake, but you're allowed to at least tell your DM what you're aiming for when you cast the spell, and cross your fingers. Some DMs use random tables, others pretty much just give you what you ask for.)

[Foxhound438]

if you don't mind the overall simplicity of barbarian, it's a very good class. Reading your concerns, I feel that a bear totem barbarian would fit all of your needs. Personally I'd never bother using anything but PAM/GWM on a barbarian since you have very strong tanking inherent in your damage resistances, and I think shield master is probably the last thing I'd want to be doing. That's my bias though.

As a neat alternate, you could probably do pretty well as a cleric of some sort. 14 wis starting out as a Gith can up that to 16, and you otherwise have well above par stats for any kind of cleric you want. Life clerics in particular get heavy armor, and the boosted healing can cover for a lot of tanking needs. Forge clerics can also be pretty tanky with their extra AC from abilities. Your damage from the attack action will be much lower here, but cleric comes with a solid selection of spells that can fix that deficiency pretty easily. For either cleric, I'd probably take war caster and then max out wisdom.

[Want2mess]

As a neat alternate, you could probably do pretty well as a cleric of some sort..

I've been playing a cleric for the past ~7 months with this same group so I didn't want to roll up another one for our new characters, but I definitely had fun with my last cleric!

[Want2mess]

It does not apply to your polearm build, but maybe you can find life outside combat.:smallbiggrin:

I feel like we roleplay in our group well enough that even if I have a DPR focused build it wouldn't be too much of a negative thing outside of combat. The problem is that our DM throws very difficult encounters at us since we are very strong PC's and I just want to be prepared for that.

[CTurbo]

Hi there everyone, this is my first time posting in this forum so I hope I'm in the right place to get some help!

My group and I are making new characters starting at level 7 and I'm unsure which class I should go. We rolled stats in order, so we all have pretty good stats and our DM throws difficult encounters at us regularly so I would like to be pretty well optimized.

My base stats are: 17 Strength, 15 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 14 Wisdom, 8 Charisma

We get a free feat at level 1 and variant human is banned, and since we are starting at a higher level we all get one uncommon magic item of our own choice, plus two magic items that our DM will create or roll for. Plus 1500 gold and any armor under plate (plate will cost 1000 of our starter gold if we want it).

There will be 5 maybe 6 players total, and so far we have a rogue, a wizard, one player is either playing a druid (spore) or a sorclock (optimized for blasting), and then one person is still undecided but based off of their stats they will most likely be a charisma caster or a dex fighter or monk (we rolled 2 sets in order and choose between them). There is potential for one more person, however they would most likely be joining after we start and would choose their character based off of what we already have in the group.

I'm pretty much trying to decide between barbarian and fighter, but I am very open to different ideas if I'm missing something.

I basically have 3 ideas:

1. Ancients barbarian with shield master/brawny/resilient dex (at level 8) to be extremely tanky, decent AC (not using reckless attacks), advantage + proficiency in dex saves, and advantage (while raging) + expertise in using the shield master shove to knock enemies prone to help control the battlefield. The thing I'm worried about is that we have a lot of ranged characters especially if one player goes the sorclock build, and knocking someone prone has negative synergy with that.

2. Totem Barbearian with the classic PAM/GWM/Sentinel (wouldn't get 3rd feat until level 8). The reason for this is it's a nice middle ground between full tank and going for more of a DPR fighter, while still tanking well due to rage and damage resistance from the bear totem. Also the PAM/Sentinel is a different form of battlefield control that doesn't knock enemies prone so it will synergize better with all of our long range people. The problem with this build is that it's very feat heavy and with my stat array, the better barbarian races leave me with 19/17 strength and con that I wouldn't be able to even out until level 12.

3. Battlemaster Fighter with the classic PAM/GWM/Sentinel (Tunnel Fighter is banned). This is definitely more DPR oriented (I've read a LOT of math about it on these forums) while still offering even MORE battlefield control due to superiority dice, but it sacrifices overall tanking ability which could be very important for our group if our undecided player doesn't go spore druid.

The plan is for this campaign to go to level 20 and keep playing at that level, so I probably wouldn't multiclass (although barb 17/champ 3 looks really fun) since both classes capstone are very good, and I truly believe we can make it to 20 so that's why I'm taking character creation very seriously.

We can use pretty much any Wizard's Coast content, including UA at the DM's discretion. If there's anything I left out please let me know, otherwise hit me with some builds, or tell me why mine don't work! I've only ever played Cleric and a bit of Warlock so I really appreciate the help with martial character builds!

I would go Half-Orc Barbarian with Greataxe and GWM as the free feat. Bump Str and Con +1 at level 4 and you'd have 20 Str, 15 Dex, 18 Con at level 7. I'd either put +1 in Dex and Wis at level 8 and then take Res(Wis) at level 12 or take them in reverse. I'm taking Res(Wis) no matter what though and by level 12 at the latest, even if it leaves you with an odd Wis score.

I would say go Zealot if you know you're gonna got to level 20, but with no Cleric in the party, it might not be worth it. Totem Barb might be the way to go.

Goliath is another great choice.
Half-Elf rounds out Str and
Dex while leaving you with no dump stat.

Mobile is a great feat for Barbs

Ritual Caster is awesome for Barbs too to give you something to do outside of combat that benefits the entire party.

If nobody else has Sentinel, it's a must pick IMO.


Edit: this whole time I was thinking about going unarmored but really, just wear medium armor and take the odd Wis score to free up the feat space for Sentinel.

PAM/Sentinel is always good. GWM is not really necessary with them but does work well.

Bugbear PAM hits from 15ft away on your turn!

[djreynolds]

"My base stats are: 17 Strength, 15 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 14 Wisdom, 8 Charisma"

Look at those beautiful stats... and you want to play a fighter or barbarian

1. Can you switch them around?

2. Yes.... bladesinger/paladin

You could pull it off. Either way, paladin or wizard, you will get wisdom save proficiency so you can live with the 8 there

Say you go with High Elf

Str 14
Dex 16+2 =18
Con 10
Wis 8
Int 17+1=18
Chr 15

Grab at least 6 levels of paladin for the save bonus, and I would get resilient con, but war caster is nice also

Play around with the stats...... You may never get this chance again, no offense, but you can always play a fighter or barbarian

Very few can ever hope to role up and play a legitimate paladin/bladesinger

Go for it

[Want2mess]

"My base stats are: 17 Strength, 15 Dexterity, 16 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 14 Wisdom, 8 Charisma"

Look at those beautiful stats... and you want to play a fighter or barbarian

1. Can you switch them around?

2. Yes.... bladesinger/paladin

You could pull it off. Either way, paladin or wizard, you will get wisdom save proficiency so you can live with the 8 there

Say you go with High Elf

Str 14
Dex 16+2 =18
Con 10
Wis 8
Int 17+1=18
Chr 15

Grab at least 6 levels of paladin for the save bonus, and I would get resilient con, but war caster is nice also

Play around with the stats...... You may never get this chance again, no offense, but you can always play a fighter or barbarian

Very few can ever hope to role up and play a legitimate paladin/bladesinger

Go for it

Unfortunately we rolled our stats in order so I’m stuck with them the way they are. Probably a good thing though otherwise I’d never be able to choose what I want to play with such good stats!

[Sigreid]

I personally would go with fighter. Reason being that while barbarians are cool, with those stats if you go fighter you will be able to rock melee, and if your opponents are far away be nearly as effective with a longbow.

The barbarian has the edge when he's berserk in toe to toe toughness, where the fighter has the edge in combat versatility.

[djreynolds]

Play a barbarian, play Conan

Just grab GWM and go to town

[Mikal]

I’d agree with half-elf and fighter.

18 Str 16 Dex 16 con and no dump stats
Fighting style- defensive

Subclass- battle master
Feat- PAM
Level 4- str to 20
Level 6- sentinel or gwm
Level 8- sentinel or gwm

After level 8 go ranger for a second fighting style, choose archery. You also gain spell casting, and other goodies. I recommend monster slayer for additional damage.

At Level 12 take sharpshooter. Finish off getting your Dex and wisdom up to whatever levels you want.

You’re now essentially a true weapons master, capable of deadly strikes at melee or ranged, capable of hunting down chosen foes and punishing them painfully.

[Want2mess]

I’d agree with half-elf and fighter.

18 Str 16 Dex 16 con and no dump stats
Fighting style- defensive

Subclass- battle master
Feat- PAM
Level 4- str to 20
Level 6- sentinel or gwm
Level 8- sentinel or gwm

After level 8 go ranger for a second fighting style, choose archery. You also gain spell casting, and other goodies. I recommend monster slayer for additional damage.

At Level 12 take sharpshooter. Finish off getting your Dex and wisdom up to whatever levels you want.

You’re now essentially a true weapons master, capable of deadly strikes at melee or ranged, capable of hunting down chosen foes and punishing them painfully.

Huh that's actually something I didn't consider, which is that since I rolled very good stats I can work as both a ranged and melee battlemaster with multiple feats... thanks for the input!

[Mikal]

Always glad to help. You could also swap the two fighting styles. You lose a little defense but your flexibility starts at level 1 with a slightly better chance to hit at range vs an extra attack with melee until you get your str raised to 20.

Your concept? The true master of war. Carry a war hammer and shield as well, so you can show yourself as the master of any type of traditional fighting style (all weapon damage types thanks to long bow, hammer, and halberd, pure melee offense and tactical control with pole arms, extra defense with “hammer and board”, ranged effectiveness).

Ranger eventually only makes you better as it since battlemaster goes pretty flat around level 8 anyway, with hunters mark and the monster hunter extra damage abilities, as well as other ranger casting.

Skill wise I’d probably go with stealth and perception for my racials, athletics and insight for class, and survival and whatever else for your background.

Put together you’re entirely self sufficient except for offensive social situations (you’re defended via insight). You can use breastplate armor if you don’t mind another ac hit so you don’t get disadvantage in stealth, or bite the bullet and choose mithral heavy armor for your uncommon item.