Charming a charmed target?

[NRSASD]

Hey playground! I've got a RAW question for you guys. What happens if an orc is charmed by one wizard, and then immediately charmed by another? Does the second charm override the first? Assume the orc failed his save both times.

As always, thanks for any and all help!

[Demidos]

Not sure if there's an official ruling, but my group plays it as an opposed charisma check -- 1d20+cha mod + other boosters.

[JNAProductions]

Hey playground! I've got a RAW question for you guys. What happens if an orc is charmed by one wizard, and then immediately charmed by another? Does the second charm override the first? Assume the orc failed his save both times.

As always, thanks for any and all help!

He's charmed by both. They will both have advantage on Charisma checks against the orc, and the orc cannot target either wizard with an attack, along with whatever else the charmed condition does, in this case.

Edit: If it's something like a Dominate spell, then they would follow both sets of orders to the best of his ability.

If they are mutually exclusive (say, one Wizard says "Kill the king" and the other says "Protect the king") then I'd have a roll off of 1d20+casting stat+proficiency, with the winner's order taking hold.

[JackPhoenix]

He's charmed by both. They will both have advantage on Charisma checks against the orc, and the orc cannot target either wizard with an attack, along with whatever else the charmed condition does, in this case.

Edit: If it's something like a Dominate spell, then they would follow both sets of orders to the best of his ability.

If they are mutually exclusive (say, one Wizard says "Kill the king" and the other says "Protect the king") then I'd have a roll off of 1d20+casting stat+proficiency, with the winner's order taking hold.

Assuming they did use different spells. Otherwise, the orc can be only under one instance of the same spell.

[Tanarii]

Assuming they did use different spells. Otherwise, the orc can be only under one instance of the same spell.
That's not what the rule says. It says the effects don't combine, and you only get the most potent effect, such as the highest bonus.

In this case, the effects aren't combining. They are independent.

[JackPhoenix]

That's not what the rule says. It says the effects don't combine, and you only get the most potent effect, such as the highest bonus.

In this case, the effects aren't combining. They are independent.

"The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don’t combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect—such as the highest bonus—from those castings applies while their durations overlap."

They are combining in the meaning they are both trying to affect a single creature. They would be independent if they were affecting different creatures, on a single one, only one effect applies.

[sophontteks]

In CoS a certain charm effect has a big impact on the game, creating a big challenge to the players. It'd be silly if my bard could completely counter this effect with a level 1 spell.

Nothing about the charmed condition seems mutually exclusive where being charmed by two things creates a conflict. Its not mind control. Though the CoS one is pretty strong.

[Lunali]

In CoS a certain charm effect has a big impact on the game, creating a big challenge to the players. It'd be silly if my bard could completely counter this effect with a level 1 spell.

Nothing about the charmed condition seems mutually exclusive where being charmed by two things creates a conflict. Its not mind control. Though the CoS one is pretty strong.

It would only be countered if the original spell was the same one the bard would cast.

[Tanarii]

They are combining in the meaning they are both trying to affect a single creature.
That's not what combining means.

[JackPhoenix]

That's not what combining means.

And what do you think it means in this context?

[Tanarii]

And what do you think it means in this context?
If you cast charm person and follow it up charm person, you don't get double advantage (or roll three dice) when you make a Cha check.

[JackPhoenix]

If you cast charm person and follow it up charm person, you don't get double advantage (or roll three dice) when you make a Cha check.

Yeah, it doesn't matter who the second Charm Person come from. Even if it's from someone else, only one effect applies (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/06/23/if-i-cast-charm-person-on-a-target-and-you-cast-the-same-spell-on-the-same-target-what-happens/).

[Tanarii]

Yeah, it doesn't matter who the second Charm Person come from. Even if it's from someone else, only one effect applies (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/06/23/if-i-cast-charm-person-on-a-target-and-you-cast-the-same-spell-on-the-same-target-what-happens/).
And if we follow from crawfords somment, if we apply that rule, nothing unsual happens. Both affects apply individually. :p

Bad answer on his part if he meant it to say what you're claiming it says. Ie you (and he) are begging the question by assuming the rule says "combine" to mean "only one effect applies if there are two instances, regardless of if the effects would combine to be more powerful or not".