Using the Ring of Regeneration's effect as a racial feature

[Greywander]

I'm contemplating a homebrew race with regeneration as a racial feature. Obviously, the 18th level Champion fighter feature is way too powerful to give as at 1st level, but the effect of the Ring of Regeneration seems like a decent compromise. The Ring of Regeneration restores 1d6 HP every 10 minutes (if you have at least 1 HP), and regenerates body parts over 1d6+1 days as long as you have at least 1 HP the whole time. How would you rank this as a racial feature? Specifically, how would it rank according to this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ViqLSEN67mmd2Lo_OJ-H5YX0fccsfI97kFaqx7V1Dmw/edit)? How would it compare to a +1 to one ability score? Or to a gaining a feat?

There's a lot of ways this could be tweaked, too. We could limit the HP regen to being only up to half your max HP (like the Champion regen), we could change the die size or the time period. We could remove the body part regeneration or change the time scale on it. Heck, we could change the HP regen to being temp HP that stacks with other sources of temp HP but not with itself.

[Kadesh]

Vhumans as the baseline race, with Tough feat has 2-40HP extra this would need to be balanced against that.

1 hour duration, healing Prof Mod, with stat bonuses to Str would make it a decent, less OP option, but even then, it is a very strong ability.

[qube]

How would you rank this as a racial feature?I wouldn't.

I would either take the Goliath ability, and balance it towards that (How many encounters per short/long rest do you plan on doing) or start from variant human as template, and modifiy a feat. Examples could be
1/short rest heal a hit die for free (~1/2 feat; variation of Dwarven Fortitude, XGtE)
automatically stabilize, after each rest (short or long), you start with 2 temp hp (~2/3 of a feat; variation on magic initiatite (goodberry & stabilize cantrip)
or automatically stabilize, short rest heal +1 hp, a long rest heals +6 hp
hit die heal an additional +1 hp (~1/2 feat; variant of Durable (as 1dX+con gives a minium of 2*con, it basically gives your die a minimum roll of your con, which equals a boost of .5 hp per point your con-mod is above 1 ) )
edit: or, to use Kadesh example: double this effect and you're equivalent to the toughtness feat


It's MUCH easier to balance something by taking an existing feature and bending it towards a desered effect,
then starting out with an effect and trying to ram it in a class feature.

[Dr. Cliché]

Vhumans as the baseline race, with Tough feat has 2-40HP extra this would need to be balanced against that.

That seems like a terrible comparison.

Surely one of the greatest benefits of Variant Humans is versatility? You can choose whichever feat helps your build your most.

But what you're asking is that a race with a focus on regeneration has to be equal to a single option of the Variant Human. And not even a good option of theirs.

What's more, the Variant Human hp from Tough is useful in battle, whereas this is only useful between battles.


With regard to the proposed ability, it's pretty good but I don't think it's *that* strong. it's useless in battle and 5e already has a ton of out-of-combat healing.

It's hard to make a complete judgement without seeing the rest of the homebrew race, but I really don't think this ability would be overpowered in and of itself.

[qube]

Surely one of the greatest benefits of Variant Humans is versatility?Yes - but it's not balanced toward versility: because you can only take 1 feat. D&D isn't balanced toward the options you don't take - it's balanced toward the options you have. In effect, a feat is no different then a sub-species - as in, it's silly to make races weaker because they can chose from more sub-species.


... well ... we've added shader-kai and made them a subspecies of elf. Now all the people who play wood elf, high elf or drow play with an overpowered race. If only we made it a seperate race, then elves would at least be balanced

There's a very good reason why most class-guides put human in light-blue. It's not because the wizard guide considers the fact humans technically have access to heavy weapon mastery. But because the power of a feat.


And to call toughness "not even a good option" ... YMMV. Not only dfid I happen to point out it's balanced compared to other feats ... I know very little people who consider the following trade-off to be objectively bad
+2 CON (+1 hp/lvl , +1 saves & checks, +1 to certain abilities if you have them)
+2 hp/lvl

[Dr. Cliché]

Yes - but it's not balanced toward versility: because you can only take 1 feat. D&D isn't balanced toward the options you don't take - it's balanced toward the options you have. In effect, a feat is no different then a sub-species - as in, it's silly to make races weaker because they can chose from more sub-species.


But that makes no sense.

You're asking for a race with a plethora of options to be just as good in any of those options as a race which specialises in those specific options.




... well ... we've added shader-kai and made them a subspecies of elf. Now all the people who play wood elf, high elf or drow play with an overpowered race. If only we made it a seperate race, then elves would at least be balanced

Eh?

It seems that you just want Variant Humans to just be the best at everything with no drawbacks.



There's a very good reason why most class-guides put human in light-blue. It's not because the wizard guide considers the fact humans technically have access to heavy weapon mastery. But because the power of a feat.


Or, to put it another way, Variant Humans have versatility. They can pick the best option (in the form of a feat) for just about any build.



And to call toughness "not even a good option" ... YMMV. Not only dfid I happen to point out it's balanced compared to other feats ... I know very little people who consider the following trade-off to be objectively bad
+2 CON (+1 hp/lvl , +1 saves & checks, +1 to certain abilities if you have them)
+2 hp/lvl

It's not a bad option per se, but I'd argue it doesn't give anywhere near the edge that feats like War Caster or Great Weapon Master offer.

[Damon_Tor]

I'm contemplating a homebrew race with regeneration as a racial feature. Obviously, the 18th level Champion fighter feature is way too powerful to give as at 1st level, but the effect of the Ring of Regeneration seems like a decent compromise. The Ring of Regeneration restores 1d6 HP every 10 minutes (if you have at least 1 HP), and regenerates body parts over 1d6+1 days as long as you have at least 1 HP the whole time. How would you rank this as a racial feature? Specifically, how would it rank according to this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ViqLSEN67mmd2Lo_OJ-H5YX0fccsfI97kFaqx7V1Dmw/edit)? How would it compare to a +1 to one ability score? Or to a gaining a feat?

There's a lot of ways this could be tweaked, too. We could limit the HP regen to being only up to half your max HP (like the Champion regen), we could change the die size or the time period. We could remove the body part regeneration or change the time scale on it. Heck, we could change the HP regen to being temp HP that stacks with other sources of temp HP but not with itself.

I would probably make it something like where using their hit dice to heal becomes more effective for them in a variety of ways. For example, they could add their proficiency bonus to the damage healed when they spend a hit die, or if they have a flavorful stat they can add on top of con add that instead (for example, if it's a +2 wis race, and their natural regen is based on how in-tune they are with their bodies, add their WIS bonus to the HP healed). You could also allow them to recover extra hit dice after a long rest, either a stat bonus or proficiency.

Note this actually does have some potential in-combat applications, with abilities like the fighter's Second Wind that allow you to spend a hit dice in combat.

As for limb recovery I wouldn't have a problem with basically whatever. Lingering Wounds are a variant rule anyway. I'd include it, along with some disease/poison resistance, at the cost of some hit dice.

So my final trait would look something like:


Rapid Healing Add your proficiency bonus to the number of hitpoints recovered when you spend a Hit Die, and to the the number of Hit Dice recovered at the end of a long rest. When you roll a constitution save against poison or disease, you can spend a Hit Die, roll it, and add the result to the save. After you've recovered your Hit Dice at the end of a long rest, you can spend any number of Hit Dice; each Hit Die spent in this way removes one lingering wound effecting you.

[Kadesh]

Variant humans have no versatility any more than another race once you have chosen that feat giving them a direction.

[qube]

It's not a bad option per se, but I'd argue it doesn't give anywhere near the edge that feats like War Caster or Great Weapon Master offer. Except, I'm not trying to make apples out of oranges. Neither of those feats give anything resembing regeneration. Considering we're looking at a race for a person who wants his edge in hit points, War Caster or Great Weapon Master are irrelevant. And if the characters wants them anyway - level 4 is still open for business.

You think using a feat as benchmark is bad? Well ... Lets not take human. Lets take a race known for its hp: the hill dwarf.
standard +2/+1 scores
less speed, darkvision.
some fluff or highly situational bonusses (weapon proficiency, tool proficiency, stone cunning)
adv. & resistance vs poison (1/3rd of the Infernal Constitution feat)
+1 hp / level (1/2 of the toughness feat)

Would you agree that balacing around the hill dwarf would be a good benchmark?

[ad_hoc]

Specifically, how would it rank according to this guide (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ViqLSEN67mmd2Lo_OJ-H5YX0fccsfI97kFaqx7V1Dmw/edit)?

That guide is rubbish.

The author doesn't understand ribbons, or balance in general.

For example, they rate a +1 as being worth 2 languages.

[qube]

That guide is rubbish.

The author doesn't understand ribbons, or balance in general.

For example, they rate a +1 as being worth 2 languages.yeah .. I've taken a closer look at it, and it's indeed quite silly. Stonecunning = Poison Resilience = Extra Language ?

heck ... 1 Skill Proficiency = 1 Tool proficiency? Yeah right. when you start to rate proficency brewers tools as equivalent to proficiency in perception, you know you dun goofed.

[PeteNutButter]

It's going to be very DM dependent, so since you're doing the homebrew, you can easily control for any overpowered aspects.

I tend to do rather short adventuring days, with a few good fights that are usually close together. That means any healing that is based on 10minutes or more isn't doing all that much impact on the day. If you run long days with multiple small fights it might be a tad too powerful, but even so there are multiple ways for PCs to get extremely good out of combat healing. If you have a druid, potentially with a life cleric dip, you can eat good berries from yesterday's spell slots, effectively making hundreds of out of combat hp. Healing Spirit is also obscene for out of combat healing.

The general design approach for 5e seems to be that in the majority of scenarios, PCs enter most fights with the majority of their hp, unless those fights are back to back.

All that being said, I'd be totally fine giving a race 1 hp per 10 minutes (not 1d6 just to keep down time wasting rolling). It wouldn't do that much in my game, other than make the player feel cool when they get 6 hp more back on a short rest. It'd scale poorly as they go up in level so you could consider making it half proficiency bonus hp per 10 minutes to mitigate some of this.

Now how you balance it really depends on the fluff. The regen feature seems mostly effective on barbarians since they are the class designed to take hits. If the race gives a con bonus and something else that isn't strength, then there is an obvious trade off having a barbarian start with 15 or less strength (assuming point buy). There may also be other neat ways to balance it depending on the fluff. Where does this healing come from? Are they just like Wolverine? Does it come from the body's natural fuel? Does that mean they need to eat a ton? What about exhaustion? I'd imagine regrowing a limb would be quite tiresome on the body. Is there a racial weakness, like a troll?

Overall don't get carried away with it. Out of combat healing just isn't that big of a deal in most games. Even when it is, you can probably still challenge the party, assuming not every PC is this regening race. There are two types of adventuring days: 1) The time constrained day, meaning OoC healing isn't going to be effective unless it takes just a few minutes and 2) the no rush day, meaning PCs can generally back out of the area and spam short rests between fights if necessary. Neither of these is effected too much by OoC regen.

[Tanarii]

I'm contemplating a homebrew race with regeneration as a racial feature.
You're contemplating giving a race an attune-free magic item, roughly worth 40000 gp, typically found in T3, that can't be taken away?

I wonder if there are some clues or hints that it might not be balanced.

[Zorrah]

It could be made into an active ability. As a bonus action, activate it for 1 minute of healing 1 hp per round. Usable once per long rest. Meaning a cap of 10 HP per day. Various ways you can look at either buffing the skill or making it better per level would be something like 1 minute of healing for level hp/round, or usable a number of times per day equal to your proficiency mod, or making it last a number of rounds equal to twice your level. If you still want it to regenerate limbs, it would take a number of days, but days where you use the actual healing doesn't count as number of days per regenerating lost limbs.

Edit: Or rather, you may want to look at balancing it against either lay on hands or second wind as well, since those are heals you can get at low level, even if they are a class skill.

[Kane0]

Each hour you are conscious you regain HP equal to your Proficiency bonus, up to a maximum of half your total HP. You cannot regrow limbs using this ability, but you can reattach severed limbs if properly held in place. This will not protect you against decapitation or similar effects.

As powerful as a +2 ability bonus, to be safe.

Alternatively you can play around with the Hit Die mechanic, granting extra HD, bonus HP recovered when spending HD or giving the ability to spend them outside of rests.

[Greywander]

It's hard to make a complete judgement without seeing the rest of the homebrew race, but I really don't think this ability would be overpowered in and of itself.
Well, I think it's worth asking about in general, say if someone was thinking about making a half-troll race or something.

In my particular case, however, it's an undead race, so healing options are limited. Regenerating body parts is also an issue, as the way I've currently written them even decapitation doesn't kill them, but they currently have no way of reattaching or regrowing lost body parts, so cutting off their head is almost as good as killing them (unless you like the idea of playing a blind, deaf, mute character). Although allowing body parts to be reattached will probably be sufficient; if they actually somehow get a body part cut off and destroyed/lost, then they can wait for a Regenerate spell like anyone else.

All that said, this discussion needn't be restricted to my particular case. As I said in the first line, something like a half-troll is definitely worthy of consideration.


That guide is rubbish.

The author doesn't understand ribbons, or balance in general.

For example, they rate a +1 as being worth 2 languages.
I'll admit, the guide is a bit wonky, but I've found it invaluable in keeping at least a semblance of balance when homebrewing races. Otherwise you're just slapping together a bunch of abilities without necessarily thinking about how powerful the end result is. If I create a race with a point total of less than 4, I can be reasonably certain that it is underpowered, whereas if the point total is over 8 then there's a good chance it's overpowered. I try to aim for a score of about 6, with room to fudge up or down depending on how powerful the race as a whole "feels".

If you think you could create a better guide, I'd be happy to use it, and I might even take a crack at creating my own guide at some point. But until then I have to work with what I have.


All that being said, I'd be totally fine giving a race 1 hp per 10 minutes (not 1d6 just to keep down time wasting rolling).
Avoiding dice rolls is a good idea, particularly if you regain HP every 10 minutes or faster. If it's every hour or slower, then rolling dice is probably fine.


Where does this healing come from? Are they just like Wolverine? Does it come from the body's natural fuel? Does that mean they need to eat a ton? What about exhaustion? I'd imagine regrowing a limb would be quite tiresome on the body. Is there a racial weakness, like a troll?
I was actually wondering about this. Many monsters with regen can have it blocked by taking damage of a certain type, but it only blocks it for that one round. So if you regain HP every minute, 10 minutes, hour, or longer, then how would you apply the same principle? In my specific case, fire or radiant damage would probably block the regen. Although, if it takes longer than 1 minute to regen HP and you don't regenerate while at 0 HP, then it probably isn't necessary to block regeneration.


There are two types of adventuring days: 1) The time constrained day, meaning OoC healing isn't going to be effective unless it takes just a few minutes and 2) the no rush day, meaning PCs can generally back out of the area and spam short rests between fights if necessary. Neither of these is effected too much by OoC regen.
This is a good point. If you don't have time to take a short rest, then the regen isn't going to do much anyway. It can help take the edge off when you're needing to be continuously active (i.e. unable to take rests) but aren't taking damage, like, say, if you spend several hours shopping or crafting.


You're contemplating giving a race an attune-free magic item, roughly worth 40000 gp, typically found in T3, that can't be taken away?

I wonder if there are some clues or hints that it might not be balanced.
You're talking about aarakocra, right? Actually, magic items that give fly speeds seem to be all over the place in terms of rarity, duration, and whether or not attunement is required. The Broom of Flying, for example, seems a bit OP for an uncommon item with no attunement.

Anyway, how does this look for a racial regeneration ability?

Regeneration. You regain hit points equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 hit point) every hour as long as you have at least 1 hit point the entire time. Regaining hit points this way can't give you more than half your maximum hit points. If you lose a body part, you are able to regrow the body part and restore full functionality in 2d4 - your Constitution modifier days (minimum of 1 day), provided you have at least 1 hit point the entire time. If you take [fire/acid/etc.] damage, the regrowth of that body part is suspended for 24 hours, after which it will resume.

The number of hit points you regain every hour increases by 1d6 at 5th, 11th, and 17th level.

[ad_hoc]

I'll admit, the guide is a bit wonky, but I've found it invaluable in keeping at least a semblance of balance when homebrewing races. Otherwise you're just slapping together a bunch of abilities without necessarily thinking about how powerful the end result is. If I create a race with a point total of less than 4, I can be reasonably certain that it is underpowered, whereas if the point total is over 8 then there's a good chance it's overpowered. I try to aim for a score of about 6, with room to fudge up or down depending on how powerful the race as a whole "feels".


Races are straightforward.

+2/+1
Couple abilities
Couple ribbons

The problem with the guide is that it doesn't actually tell you whether the abilities are balanced. It is just a tally for how many things there are. No guide is better than a terrible one. Remember, just because it is on the internet doesn't mean it is true. This goes for all of the guides out there.

[qube]

You're talking about aarakocra, right? Actually, magic items that give fly speeds seem to be all over the place in terms of rarity, duration, and whether or not attunement is required. The Broom of Flying, for example, seems a bit OP for an uncommon item with no attunement.considering they litterly admit it themselves? I suppose it's a half-good example. Half-good, considering a DM can ad-hoc nerve the aarakocra by sending the adventurers in dungeons.

As for Broom of flying ... have you ever sat on a pole? (ex. a fense without having a second bar beneith the first to hold your balance) druing anything with a moderate gust of wind? The broom of flying balancing factor is the DM. An inability to keep steady on it if you don't use both hands (it's still a flying pole), variations of mounted combat without a saddle(after all, it's state you do ride it. you get hit? well make a check to see if you can keep your balance and don't fall off), etc ...
As far as I'm concerned, winged boots all the way.



Regeneration. You regain hit points equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 hit point) every hour as long as you have at least 1 hit point the entire time. Regaining hit points this way can't give you more than half your maximum hit points. If you lose a body part, you are able to regrow the body part and restore full functionality in 2d4 - your Constitution modifier days (minimum of 1 day), provided you have at least 1 hit point the entire time. If you take [fire/acid/etc.] damage, the regrowth of that body part is suspended for 24 hours, after which it will resume.

The number of hit points you regain every hour increases by 1d6 at 5th, 11th, and 17th level. I'd still remove the dice, and add proficiency instead (from lvl 1).

it also needs a ruling how this works with short rest (as that's also an hour which can heal you from below to over half hp) (personally, I'd say that then it triggers both, or otherwise it will probbably never do so)

Otherwise, I think it's pretty balanced. (compared to the goliath's 1/short 1d12+CON damage reduction)
- Damage reduction is also a "useless power" if you end your short rest with more then half your hp anyway (considering the very little difference between full and 1 hp). this Regen heals slightly less, but has the potential to heal more in time pressured situations.

I'd even think of give it an extra feature: If you take a long rest, it keeps healing to full hp -- giving this feature an edge when you get attacked while resting.