Summon Demon + Magic Circle + PLanar Binding

[Snowbluff]

Sould a magic circle keep a demon from leaving the plane when the Summon Demon spells ends so I have enough time to perform a Planar Binding?

[tieren]

Ask your DM

There is a timing issue, magic circle lasts for 1 hour, planar binding takes 1 hour to cast. Problem is you can't cast magic circle the same turn you begin casting planar binding, which means the circle would end 1 turn before you completed casting the binding.

Personally I think that is a lot of hogwash as it seems the two were designed to work together.

[Damon_Tor]

Ask your DM

There is a timing issue, magic circle lasts for 1 hour, planar binding takes 1 hour to cast. Problem is you can't cast magic circle the same turn you begin casting planar binding, which means the circle would end 1 turn before you completed casting the binding.

Personally I think that is a lot of hogwash as it seems the two were designed to work together.

Upcasting Magic Circle increases the duration. There's not an issue, unless I'm missing something.

[Snowbluff]

Ask your DM

There is a timing issue, magic circle lasts for 1 hour, planar binding takes 1 hour to cast. Problem is you can't cast magic circle the same turn you begin casting planar binding, which means the circle would end 1 turn before you completed casting the binding.

Personally I think that is a lot of hogwash as it seems the two were designed to work together.


Upcasting Magic Circle increases the duration. There's not an issue, unless I'm missing something.

Yeah, I can upcast it. My problem is that casting Planar Binding after trapping the Demon in the Magic Circles takes 1 hour, which is exactly long enough for the spell to end.

[Unoriginal]

Magic Circle doesn't prevent the Demons from leaving once the summon time is over, so...

[Damon_Tor]

I don't see a problem here.

Step 1: Cast Magic Circle as a level 4 spell. It has a duration of two hours. Or if you have a sorcerer dip, use Extended Spell.
Step 2: Cast Summon Greater Demon inside the circle. It has a duration of one hour. This is the challenging duration, not the Magic Circle. There are several ways to get around this, but the simplest is to dip sorcerer and use Extended Spell.
Step 3: Cast Planar Binding.
Step 4: Enjoy your pet demon.

[Scarytincan]

More simple than dipping into another class would be cast the summon spell on a glyph and let it maintain the concentration for you, as when you start casting an hour long spell you will lose concentration on the demon, which would mean it returns home in 1d6 rounds. And as others said, upcast circle.

[Snowbluff]

Magic Circle doesn't prevent the Demons from leaving once the summon time is over, so...


When you cast this spell, you can elect to cause its magic to operate in the reverse direction, preventing a creature of the specified type from leaving the Cylinder and protecting Targets outside it. This is the section in question. It says the demon wouldn't be able to leave.

[Scarytincan]

I feel like I've read somewhere that magic circle does not prevent something being dismissed or unsummoned....having a hard time finding it tho atm...

[Scarytincan]

But regarding summon duration and cast time :

"As DM, I'd allow you to pair conj. elemental with planar binding if the latter starts when the monster appears. #DnD https://t.co/jz6PIPYA9g

— Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) September 17, 2015"

Not a RAW guaranteed fix but seems to heavily imply RAI

[Damon_Tor]

More simple than dipping into another class would be cast the summon spell on a glyph and let it maintain the concentration for you, as when you start casting an hour long spell you will lose concentration on the demon, which would mean it returns home in 1d6 rounds. And as others said, upcast circle.

Planar binding doesn't require concentration though.

[Eragon123]

I really like the idea of using a 5th level spell slot to cast Glyph of Warding in order to store Planar Binding. What's cool is that this negates the need for magic circle entirely. As you can cast the glyph and planar binding at the same time (may need to be two hours). But the magic isn't released until you plop the demon on it. But once you do it is instantly bound, provided that it fails its save of course.

[Damon_Tor]

I really like the idea of using a 5th level spell slot to cast Glyph of Warding in order to store Planar Binding. What's cool is that this negates the need for magic circle entirely. As you can cast the glyph and planar binding at the same time (may need to be two hours). But the magic isn't released until you plop the demon on it. But once you do it is instantly bound, provided that it fails its save of course.

This probably doesn't work. Planar Binding says "The creature must be within range for the entire casting of the spell." while Glyph of Warding says "You can store a prepared spell of 3rd level or lower by casting it as part of creating the glyph." So in other words, you have the same problem: the demon to be bound has to be there while you cast the Glyph because the casting of Planar Binding happens at the same time.

A simple dip into sorcerer is a cleaner solution.

[MaxWilson]

Planar binding doesn't require concentration though.

Casting a spell that takes longer than one action always requires your concentration.


I really like the idea of using a 5th level spell slot to cast Glyph of Warding in order to store Planar Binding. What's cool is that this negates the need for magic circle entirely. As you can cast the glyph and planar binding at the same time (may need to be two hours). But the magic isn't released until you plop the demon on it. But once you do it is instantly bound, provided that it fails its save of course.

Of course, now the demon is bound to serve a glyph which doesn't exist any more, whereas you probably wanted it to serve YOU...

[ATHATH]

Why not use Glyph of Warding to cast Summon Demons and cast Planar Binding yourself (set up the upcast Magic Circle first, of course)?

[ATHATH]

Planar binding doesn't require concentration though.
Isn't there a rule somwhere about spells with casting times longer than 1 round requiring concentraion while being cast (or something along those lines)?

[MaxWilson]

Why not use Glyph of Warding to cast Summon Demons and cast Planar Binding yourself (set up the upcast Magic Circle first, of course)?

Yeah, that should work.

You don't have to upcast Magic Circle in that case of course: Magic Circle lasts for an hour, which is exactly how long you spend casting Planar Binding, so at the point where the demon could theoretically escape and start attacking you, it's already been bound. (And if it hasn't, the duration of Summon Demons is not extended, so it's no longer around.)

[Snowbluff]

But regarding summon duration and cast time :

"As DM, I'd allow you to pair conj. elemental with planar binding if the latter starts when the monster appears. #DnD https://t.co/jz6PIPYA9g

— Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford) September 17, 2015"

Not a RAW guaranteed fix but seems to heavily imply RAI

Well, thank you for that. That's some RAI.


Why not use Glyph of Warding to cast Summon Demons and cast Planar Binding yourself (set up the upcast Magic Circle first, of course)?
And here's a RAW way of doing it. Thank, folks. :3

[No brains]

Just Never summon a Babau or Glabrezu. Nothing stops them from spamming Dispel Magic on your Magic Circle.

AFAIK, the Glyph of Warding trick or a gullible apprentice is your best bet for keeping all the necessary spells up.

[Scarytincan]

You can summon them, just don't try to bind them unless you can knock em out first or store planar binding in a ring of spell storing or some other scheme. Also you can summon for fights rather than binding, just have contingencies for when /if they break free XD