School of Geometry. My Personal Take.

[Eragon123]

I found this class on reddit and instantly fell in love.


Direct Link to original (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/SkwZBBxO-)

From Reddit post with original subclass (https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/6uiqxh/arcane_tradition_school_of_geometry_for_wizards/)
All credit to Cephei_Delta (https://www.reddit.com/user/Cephei_Delta)


I loved it so much that I practically begged my DM to let me try it out. He agreed provided that we have an open conversation on balance. I readily agreed.

Issue one. The initiative boost from Arcane Topography was way too big. It so easily outclassed what the other characters could do that it created a feel-bad. Also with the release of the war-wizard, we decided that this wasn't the quick wizard. Rather spending all that time mapping out spells made it much more routine to cast rituals.

Issue two. Spell Link felt a little restrictive. We lessened the restriction so it felt more like a resource.

Issue three. Off the grid feels a bit tacked on. No change. But I'm willing to listen to ideas.

Issue four. Geometer's Journey Felt both clunky and overpowered. Since we made the change to Arcane Topography to make it more utilitarian, we decided to do the same here, sacrificing power for utility. Also the tokens are a bit stickier now as it was difficult to make good chains before. Since we lowered the ceiling we also raised the floor a bit.

Here are my changes to it. (http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Bk5_FHImX)

Concerns due to my changes.
Lowering ritual casting time ranges from useless to OP.
I did go through every ritual spell in the game. The only one that gave me major pause was Leomund's Tiny Hut. Being able to cast that spell in combat is really good, even better since it wouldn't cost a slot. However, once you get to the level where that is possible, 18th, you are capable of casting 9th level spells and there are way better get out of jail free cards at that point.

Most of the other rituals that get fast casted just allow for narrative opportunities in combat.
Even if one takes ritual caster: Cleric, the one that caught my eye was Meld into Stone but since Wizards already have Leomund's Tiny Hut.... we have bigger fish to fry.

I'm want to see if anyone has some feedback and have a conversation about it. :smallbiggrin:
(Note, I have spent a lot of time with this subclass so I might take things a bit personally, I will aim to be respectful though).

Also here are some maps I have made for this subclass if it helps to have a reference.

Map 1 (https://imgur.com/3dUPprQ)

Map 2 (https://imgur.com/Jiu2Uts)

Map 3 (https://imgur.com/pDrmqGu)

[GaelofDarkness]

I really, really like this. I LOVE the idea of the spell maps. It sort of makes the wizard's abilities tied to a puzzle mini-game, which is so cool.

So let's go through this feature-by-feature:

Spell Map:
LOVE THIS. Just wanted to say that again.

Arcane Topography:
The extra damage is a really strong feature, but it does seem to be one of the defining features of the subclass. Comparing it to the Power Surge feature of the War Magic Arcane Tradition does make me think it's too strong (power surge let's you spend a limited resource to add half your wizard level in damage). I ran some quick numbers, and if optimized this feature could increase the average damage of cantrips by like 50% or more - much more. It also means that cantrips that deal less damage because they have additional effects suddenly become much closer in damage output to cantrips that just deal damage. My best guess on a fix would be to switch the the levels you get Arcane Topography and Spell Link. Change the extra damage to one point per every... two/three(?) terminals with a maximum of one third of your wizard level rounded down. That's still a really sizable average damage boost. If it were at my table, I'd actually make it a limit of one quarter of your wizard level.

I'd probably recommend adding in these two minor limitations too:

1. The extra damage only effects wizard cantrips that target a single creature (acid splash and thunderclap could potentially be used to multiply the damage dealt by affecting multiple creatures - though they are both situational - and this would be future-proofing the subclass against an eldritch blast-like cantrip being added for the wizard)


2. The extra damage can only be applied once per turn. This shouldn't be a problem because the cantrips are all actions, but it might come up if someone was using the quickened spell metamagic option after taking a sorcerer dip.


I don't see any issues with the reduction in ritual casting time other than the one's you've raised - and I don't think any of them are that worrying. That said, I don't think putting in a minimum of the original casting time changes anything much either. It kinda makes more sense to me to do that just because it's strange that I could cast a spell for free faster than casting it as normal and consuming a spell slot. Just, feels counter-intuitive I guess. Not really important one way or another.

Spell Link:
Like I said, I'd recommend switching the levels at which you get this and Arcane Topography. Because of that - I might change it from being limited to a number of times per day equal to your intelligence modifier to a number of times per day equal to your proficiency modifier, so that it comes online a little more gradually. In the end, you'd actually end up with more uses too, and I think that's fine.

I don't think you'll have too much trouble with the changing of saving throw types. It's a cool feature and it's not like you can change the type arbitrarily. Personally, I might restrict it so that a physical saving throw remains a physical saving throw and a mental saving throw remains a mental saving throw - but honestly, I don't think it's necessary.

For changing damage types, I think that's fine as is. Spell Link overall is actually fairly similar to the Spell Secrets feature the UA Loremaster wizard got. If it became an issue, I might restrict it so that you couldn't change a damage type to force, radiant, psychic or thunder - because those types are very rarely resisted - but I wouldn't bother unless the geometer started dominating in combat at the table.

Off the Grid:
Hmmm, I think that this is too strong. Assuming it doesn't stack, it doesn't synergize very well with repeated usage and just acts as a bit of a damage soak for your allies. But it's still a significant damage soak, espeically since it's not very limited. It'd be similar to being able to cast a bunch of aid spells for free all the time. Maybe set it so you can only target one (conscious) ally (or yourself) at a time maybe? That still makes it pretty useful. It also means that your choice of ally could be more meaningful and tactical, rather than just passively buffing all allies all the time.

If you're looking for a complete rework of the feature, it might be interesting to make casting a terminal spell give you - or an ally within 30 feet - resistance to the spell's damage type or a damage/effect type based on school of magic until your next turn - or even until you cast another terminal spell as long as the resistances weren't too strong. So maybe casting a necromancy spell gives you resistance to necrotic damage or casting an enchantment spell gives an ally advantage on saving throws against being charmed or frightened.

It could also be interesting to change this for a defensive feature relying on the number of closed loops. Right now, I'd posit that there's an incentive to have lot's of terminals and a small number of large closed loops. I think it'd be interesting to have there be a trade-off in having more terminals or having more loops. Maybe, as a reaction you could "expend" a closed loop to add a modifier (the number of spells in the loop, your Int, your proficiency, just a static modifier like the war wizard's? Not sure) to an ally's saving throw before you know if they succeeded or failed. You can't use any of the spells in that loop until the end of your next turn and each loop can only be used once per day in this way. That's just spit-balling mind, so it's in need of balancing.

Geometer's Journey:
Love the change from the original. I really like it. It gives you utility without making it too easy to just up and use whatever spell you want. You might be able to acquire quite a lot of readily available low level spells, but they wouldn't be that significant by the time this feature comes online. Ooooh, what if you got an extra bonus for using a closed loop of tokens rather than just a chain. Like maybe this is how you give your party temporary hit points - equal to twice the spell's level maybe? That could be cool - and limited enough that it shouldn't happen too often. I'd feel right proud of myself for getting a well placed (though unprepared) Banishment spell and boosting my allies to turn the tide of a tough battle. Then again, that depends on how fitting it is to intentionally choose the spells in that loop during combat... I still think there should be some benefit to getting a closed loop of tokens even if it is mostly inconsequential. Maybe you can expend a spell slot of one level lower to cast the spell if the tokens form a loop? I don't know.


Sorry for throwing so much text at you, but I really do like the idea of this subclass.

[Eragon123]

I really, really like this. I LOVE the idea of the spell maps. It sort of makes the wizard's abilities tied to a puzzle mini-game, which is so cool.

This is how I've felt! Glad I can spread the joy!



So let's go through this feature-by-feature:

Yes, lets.



Spell Map:
LOVE THIS. Just wanted to say that again.


I think it bears repeating :smallbiggrin:



Arcane Topography:
The extra damage is a really strong feature, but it does seem to be one of the defining features of the subclass. Comparing it to the Power Surge feature of the War Magic Arcane Tradition does make me think it's too strong (power surge let's you spend a limited resource to add half your wizard level in damage). I ran some quick numbers, and if optimized this feature could increase the average damage of cantrips by like 50% or more - much more. It also means that cantrips that deal less damage because they have additional effects suddenly become much closer in damage output to cantrips that just deal damage. My best guess on a fix would be to switch the the levels you get Arcane Topography and Spell Link. Change the extra damage to one point per every... two/three(?) terminals with a maximum of one third of your wizard level rounded down. That's still a really sizable average damage boost. If it were at my table, I'd actually make it a limit of one quarter of your wizard level.


The cap for the damage is a bit high but on one hand it is always lower than the warlock (whatever small favor that is). My main issue is that the cap scales SOOOO well for the map... seriously optimizing the map was some great fun and hap me pulling out one of my graph theory books.
Also keep in mind that the War Wizard has great defensive capabilities while the Arcane Surge was mostly a near-ribbon.



I'd probably recommend adding in these two minor limitations too:

1. The extra damage only effects wizard cantrips that target a single creature (acid splash and thunderclap could potentially be used to multiply the damage dealt by affecting multiple creatures - though they are both situational - and this would be future-proofing the subclass against an eldritch blast-like cantrip being added for the wizard)


I don't think we will ever get a cantrip like eldritch blast on the wizard. If we do I'll patch it then. I've never seen anyone even take acid splash so maybe I'll leave it for now.




2. The extra damage can only be applied once per turn. This shouldn't be a problem because the cantrips are all actions, but it might come up if someone was using the quickened spell metamagic option after taking a sorcerer dip.



My playgroup doesn't allow multiclassing but I don't think it's a big enough deal either way.



I don't see any issues with the reduction in ritual casting time other than the one's you've raised - and I don't think any of them are that worrying. That said, I don't think putting in a minimum of the original casting time changes anything much either. It kinda makes more sense to me to do that just because it's strange that I could cast a spell for free faster than casting it as normal and consuming a spell slot. Just, feels counter-intuitive I guess. Not really important one way or another.


Yeah it does seem kinda weird but playing it at the table was satisfying.



Spell Link:
Like I said, I'd recommend switching the levels at which you get this and Arcane Topography. Because of that - I might change it from being limited to a number of times per day equal to your intelligence modifier to a number of times per day equal to your proficiency modifier, so that it comes online a little more gradually. In the end, you'd actually end up with more uses too, and I think that's fine.

I don't think you'll have too much trouble with the changing of saving throw types. It's a cool feature and it's not like you can change the type arbitrarily. Personally, I might restrict it so that a physical saving throw remains a physical saving throw and a mental saving throw remains a mental saving throw - but honestly, I don't think it's necessary.

For changing damage types, I think that's fine as is. Spell Link overall is actually fairly similar to the Spell Secrets feature the UA Loremaster wizard got. If it became an issue, I might restrict it so that you couldn't change a damage type to force, radiant, psychic or thunder - because those types are very rarely resisted - but I wouldn't bother unless the geometer started dominating in combat at the table.


Yes it is similar to the lore wizard but being limited to the spell features around you does make it reasonable. Keep in mind you can only make changes in the local loop. Which requires some setting up to get right.
(Also look at combining Slow with something requiring a DEX save :wink:




Off the Grid:
Hmmm, I think that this is too strong. Assuming it doesn't stack, it doesn't synergies very well with repeated usage and just acts as a bit of a damage soak for your allies. But it's still a significant damage soak, especially since it's not very limited. It'd be similar to being able to cast a bunch of aid spells for free all the time. Maybe set it so you can only target one (conscious) ally (or yourself) at a time maybe? That still makes it pretty useful. It also means that your choice of ally could be more meaningful and tactical, rather than just passively buffing all allies all the time.

If you're looking for a complete rework of the feature, it might be interesting to make casting a terminal spell give you - or an ally within 30 feet - resistance to the spell's damage type or a damage/effect type based on school of magic until your next turn - or even until you cast another terminal spell as long as the resistances weren't too strong. So maybe casting a necromancy spell gives you resistance to necrotic damage or casting an enchantment spell gives an ally advantage on saving throws against being charmed or frightened.

It could also be interesting to change this for a defensive feature relying on the number of closed loops. Right now, I'd posit that there's an incentive to have lot's of terminals and a small number of large closed loops. I think it'd be interesting to have there be a trade-off in having more terminals or having more loops. Maybe, as a reaction you could "expend" a closed loop to add a modifier (the number of spells in the loop, your Int, your proficiency, just a static modifier like the war wizard's? Not sure) to an ally's saving throw before you know if they succeeded or failed. You can't use any of the spells in that loop until the end of your next turn and each loop can only be used once per day in this way. That's just spit-balling mind, so it's in need of balancing.


Also Spell Link deals with loops and Off the Grid deals with terminals which I liked. just something to keep in mind.



Geometer's Journey:
Love the change from the original. I really like it. It gives you utility without making it too easy to just up and use whatever spell you want. You might be able to acquire quite a lot of readily available low level spells, but they wouldn't be that significant by the time this feature comes online. Ooooh, what if you got an extra bonus for using a closed loop of tokens rather than just a chain. Like maybe this is how you give your party temporary hit points - equal to twice the spell's level maybe? That could be cool - and limited enough that it shouldn't happen too often. I'd feel right proud of myself for getting a well placed (though unprepared) Banishment spell and boosting my allies to turn the tide of a tough battle. Then again, that depends on how fitting it is to intentionally choose the spells in that loop during combat... I still think there should be some benefit to getting a closed loop of tokens even if it is mostly inconsequential. Maybe you can expend a spell slot of one level lower to cast the spell if the tokens form a loop? I don't know.


I'm not married to the whole THP thing so I don't want to tie it to yet another feature. Also I like the chain as it allows people to learn about Hamiltonian Paths (even if I removed that restriction more or less).

But I'm glad you liked my changes.



Sorry for throwing so much text at you, but I really do like the idea of this subclass.
I did like reading through it all! I hope you get a chance to play around with it.

[Kane0]

A also really like the concept!

I hope you don't mind if I take a personal take to your personal take? What I was thinking was mostly just for simplicity and clarity, more or less the same gist of things:

Level 2: Ritual Savant
Same as the PHB tradition features, but for ritual spells instead of a school

Level 2: Spell Chart
When you prepare your wizard spells you can arrange them visually on a triangular grid, connecting spells of the same school or within one spell level of each other. This chart must be one connected whole, though it need not contain all your prepared spells.
Any spell on the map with only one connection is called a terminal, and deals extra damage equal to your proficiency bonus when cast.
Any three directly interconnected spells is called a loop, and each one increases your Wizard level by 1 for the purposes of your Arcane Recovery feature to a maximum of your proficiency bonus.

Level 6: Spell Link
When casting a spell that is marked as part of a loop on your spell chart, you can exchange the damage type dealt or type of saving throw for that of another of a spell in that loop. After you use this feature you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Level 10: Anchor Point
When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher that is marked as a terminal on your spell chart, you and all allies within 30 feet of you gain temporary hit points equal to the level of the spell cast.

Level 14: Geometric Mastery
Select one loop on your spell chart. The spells that create this loop are treated as one spell level higher when you cast them.

[Eragon123]

A also really like the concept!

I hope you don't mind if I take a personal take to your personal take? What I was thinking was mostly just for simplicity and clarity, more or less the same gist of things:

Level 2: Ritual Savant
Same as the PHB tradition features, but for ritual spells instead of a school

Level 2: Spell Chart
When you prepare your wizard spells you can arrange them visually on a triangular grid, connecting spells of the same school or within one spell level of each other. This chart must be one connected whole, though it need not contain all your prepared spells.
Any spell on the map with only one connection is called a terminal, and deals extra damage equal to your proficiency bonus when cast.
Any three directly interconnected spells is called a loop, and each one increases your Wizard level by 1 for the purposes of your Arcane Recovery feature to a maximum of your proficiency bonus.

Level 6: Spell Link
When casting a spell that is marked as part of a loop on your spell chart, you can exchange the damage type dealt or type of saving throw for that of another of a spell in that loop. After you use this feature you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Level 10: Anchor Point
When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher that is marked as a terminal on your spell chart, you and all allies within 30 feet of you gain temporary hit points equal to the level of the spell cast.

Level 14: Geometric Mastery
Select one loop on your spell chart. The spells that create this loop are treated as one spell level higher when you cast them.

Wow! that is quite boiled down.
I really like the Ritual Savant.
Spell chart is a bit too boiled down for my tastes... but it does capture the essence quite well.
Spell link is good.
Anchor Point is good but then again I'm not married to the concept of mapping things being good for people's health.
Geometric mastery is interesting but it makes me realize one thing about this take.
Its all about boosting vertical power. Don't get me wrong, my take had quite a reach on it. but I was trying to make things more versatile.

I will say, I am quite impressed how you managed to take something and boil it down while retaining as much of the flavor as possible.

[Kane0]

If the mapping minigame is necessary to the class, it's probably best to keep it as simple as possible so everybody can do it, as well as not be a major pain to change when the wizard wants to swap out spells. It gives you the best possible chances of seeing actual use at the table if everybody can do it without needing to recruit help. It also keeps in line with the general 5e approach.

Yeah the THP does seem a little out of place. Can't think of anything better as of yet, but i'm sure inspiration will strike eventually. Same goes for the boring statistical bonuses. Versatility you have to be careful with wizards though, they already get tons of it.

Edit: Come to think of it, we could pilfer good ideas from unreleased UA stuff like the Lore wizard or theurge.

[Eragon123]

If the mapping minigame is necessary to the class, it's probably best to keep it as simple as possible so everybody can do it, as well as not be a major pain to change when the wizard wants to swap out spells. It gives you the best possible chances of seeing actual use at the table if everybody can do it without needing to recruit help. It also keeps in line with the general 5e approach.


While I generally agree with you. The way the map is set up now you have to make sacrifices in spell selection in order to max out Arcane Topography. So any changes in that are going to send unseen ripples through the class. Also I am not going to lie, my heart is kinda set on it. But for a more general homebrew, I would have to bow down to your suggestion. I just hate bowing :smallamused:



Yeah the THP does seem a little out of place. Can't think of anything better as of yet, but i'm sure inspiration will strike eventually. Same goes for the boring statistical bonuses. Versatility you have to be careful with wizards though, they already get tons of it.

Edit: Come to think of it, we could pilfer good ideas from unreleased UA stuff like the Lore wizard or theurge.


That's fair. I'm just going to list some ideas.
-If we keep spell link 1/SR then maybe Anchor Point refreshes it? I.e. casting a terminal spell refreshes Spell Link. (Though at that point we may need to rename it Arcane Roots /s)
-When you cast a terminal spell, you may spend a bonus action to teleport 5 feet per level of the spell.
-When you cast a terminal spell, all allies within 30 feet may spend a reaction to move up to 5 feet per level of the spell.

[Kane0]

Oh by all means, maybe just clean up the wording a bit. Perhaps something like:
- Each wizard spell you prepare is marked as a node on the (triangular) grid. Cantrips are recorded as level 0 spells.
- You draw connections between spells of the same level
- You draw connections between spells of the same school that are one spell level higher or lower of each other
- Connections cannot overlap, and your map must be one connected whole. You can leave out spells that don't fit into the map.
- Is there a restriction that all spells of the same level must be chained/looped? Clarity is key!
- Spells with only a single connection are called terminals
- Connections that form an enclosed space on the map are called loops

Ooh, the BA teleport sounds nice. Maybe extend that to teleporting around allies/enemies even.

Edit: Also perhaps for level 10 or 14 the ability to ignore the 'no two non-cantrip spells' or the 'single-concentration' rule from a loop, with a short (or long) rest refresh?