Wizard vs Sorcerer vs Mesmerist...

[tadkins]

...for your typical "illusionist/deceiver/mind controller" archetypal character.

Looking at all three classes and I'm wondering which one I'd pick were the opportunity arise to play one. From where I'm standing each of them have their own advantages.

Wizard - Access to the most utility. Illusion or Enchantment school powers work nicely.

Sorcerer - Keys off of CHA which fuels manipulative skills and spells. Narrower spell list but can choose a bloodline that matches well with the focus.

Mesmerist - Also fueled by CHA. Narrowest spell list and utility, but the class itself is very thematic and has lots of neat powers related to the concept. The 20th level ability sounds very wicked and cool.

Thoughts? What direction would you guys go with?

[Eldonauran]

... Arcanist, naturally. :smallamused:

As far as I am concerned, unless you are going for something fairly specific, the Arcanist has the viability of both the Wizard and Sorcerer, with added ability to specialize with an Archetype.

[tadkins]

... Arcanist, naturally. :smallamused:

As far as I am concerned, unless you are going for something fairly specific, the Arcanist has the viability of both the Wizard and Sorcerer, with added ability to specialize with an Archetype.

Hmm, good point!

Looking at the Arcanist class and they have a few interesting exploits that would fit with the theme. Not really seeing any archetypes though.

[Eldonauran]

Blood Arcanist will allow you to pick up a Sorcerer Bloodline if you find one that fits your theme, for the costs of a few exploits. Similarly, the School Savant will do the same for any Wizard school you want.

Given a choice (and to fit within the theme you are going for), I'd say choose Blood Arcanist. Pick up the Fey bloodline for the +2 DC to compulsion spells. Pick up the School Understanding exploit for the Enchantment school (Or Manipulator subschool).

[tadkins]

Blood Arcanist will allow you to pick up a Sorcerer Bloodline if you find one that fits your theme, for the costs of a few exploits. Similarly, the School Savant will do the same for any Wizard school you want.

Given a choice (and to fit within the theme you are going for), I'd say choose Blood Arcanist. Pick up the Fey bloodline for the +2 DC to compulsion spells. Pick up the School Understanding exploit for the Enchantment school (Or Manipulator subschool).

Thanks for the advice, and for showing me how that works.

Was also considering going with the Shadow bloodline + Shadow subschool for Illusion to build something of a cool Shadowmage. That's if I want to focus on Illusion rather than Enchantment. Tough to choose which route to go with as the two schools tend to go hand in hand. xD

[ElFi]

Since OA classes are evidently on the table, have you also considered the Psychic?

You get all the classic mind-control and illusion spells, plus through psychic magic, which is subtle and silent. You can mind-whammy a guard while standing right in front of him and he'd be none the wiser. Shadow and Rapport are probably the best choices for your discipline, the former is great for sneaky, illusion-y types while the latter has a lot of team support through cool mental powers but also gets a lot of the classic control spells. Both also key off of CHA, which is great if you want to be the party face (and it seems like you might).

Mesmerist is more of a psychic rogue than a straight "controller caster" type. It's very good at its job, for sure, but your spells usually won't have quite the oomph that full-casters do. You are much better in a straight-up brawl, though, with damage comparable to striker classes like the Rogue and Inquisitor if you make good use of Painful Stare.

Wizard is... a wizard. If you want to specialize in illusions, mind-control, and trickery fluffwise as well as play-wise, I probably wouldn't go here. A wizard even at his most specialized is still a generalist in the end, because he can always prepare different spells each day (and is indeed encouraged to do so, unlike spellcasters who cast from memory).

Sorcerer also got the Psychic bloodline through OA, which gives you the psychic magic that the aforementioned Psychic and Mesmerist also use. Cast all kinds of zany spells (psychic fireballs! psychic chain lightning!) without ever giving away it's you. A weird quirk in one of their bloodline powers also allows Psychic Sorcerers to technically have more spells known than any other spontaneous caster, thanks to the interesting way in which "undercast" spells like mind thrust and psychic crush work.

[Chromascope3D]

Mesmerist doesn't have world rending arcane might but his top level spells effectively have the same DCs as top level wiz/sorc spells thanks to stare reducing will saves. Also you can keep using low level spells with HD restrictions at higher levels.

Also it's more flavorful, imo :p

[Florian]

...for your typical "illusionist/deceiver/mind controller" archetypal character.

Shadow Oracle.

[Manyasone]

A Spheres of Power Eliciter 😀