Hilda on Netflix

[The Fury]

So this series was announced some time ago, only now there's been a trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCojP2Ubuto) for the first season released, as well as a release date of the September 21st, (yes, that's soon!)

So far the general vibe most folks seem to have is Gravity Falls/Over the Garden Wall. I... guess I can see that, though my thought from the trailer is that it looks like it'd be a fairly faithful to the graphic novels by Luke Pearson, which remind me more of Tintin or Studio Ghibli movies in feel.

Anyway, is anyone else looking forward to this? Plan on watching it? Fans of the graphic novels?

[Magic_Hat]

I saw the trailer and it looks really good. Unfortunately I decided to end my Netflix subscription today - the 20th - so I'm not gonna see Hilda until I restart it which will probably when Infinity War is on Netflix. Maybe I'll cave in earlier and restart it. Either way Hilda looks great and I'm curious what people who actually see it have to say about it.

[The Fury]

Now that the series is out, and I've actually watched it, can I recommend it? In short, yes. Just going by the trailer, it was pretty clear that the animation itself was going to look good and the voice acting was going to be decent, and the actual show didn't disappoint. It also had some darn good music... I mean, I for one really liked the show's opening (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbbqrwHfTIc).

So, for more spoilery thoughts on the show...

It's not a straight adaptation of the comics, which is really to the show's credit. I thought the comics were great, however I feel like the show was pretty faithful to the source material while adding new things that actually made sense and improved the story. Like when Hilda and her Mum moved to Trolberg after having lived in a cabin in the countryside for a long time. Hilda needing to acclimate to her new home and being awkward around other kids her age wasn't given much significance in the comics but it's given a lot more focus here. Also the friendships Hilda has with two other kids, Frida and David are treated as more significant as well, (It's been a while since I've read the graphic novels, so I'm not sure... I know Frida was in them, but was David in them at all?)

Also, fans of the comic will know that the name of Hilda's Mum has never been revealed. Well, now we finally know! ...It's Joanna.

At this point, it might be a little premature to speculate on how likely a second season is, but the show did not adapt the events of the last graphic novel, Hilda and the Stone Forest. I can think of a couple reasons for why that might be, one is that it's being saved for season 2 and the rest of the season will be made up of new material. The other is that it's still not clear if another season will be greenlit and Hilda and the Stone Forest had a pretty crazy cliffhanger ending.

[Farynator]

So this series was announced some time ago, only now there's been a trailer for the first season released, as well as a release date of the September 21st, (yes, that's soon!)

So far the general vibe most folks seem to have is Gravity Falls/Over the Garden Wall. I... guess I can see that, though my thought from the trailer is that it looks like it'd be a fairly faithful to the graphic novels by Luke Pearson, which remind me more of Tintin or Studio Ghibli movies in feel.

Anyway, is anyone else looking forward to this? Plan on watching it? Fans of the graphic novels?

Yup, can't wait.

[The Fury]

So to correct myself on something, I dug out some Hilda books and re-read them. David does appear in one of the books and is mentioned in another, but like Frida, his role is much bigger in the show than it was in the comics. Though one character I'm almost certain was invented for the show was The Librarian. She's also a big reason why I hope this show gets a second season. I'm hoping for some explanation of who or what she actually is down the line. Though I guess it's all but outright stated that she's some kind of witch. Plus she has a cool character design.

[Silfir]

From what I can tell the creator of the comics is part of the animated show staff (credited with "developed by" and as writer for episodes 10 and 12; he's also storyboarded for Adventure Time before this), so any changes from the source material I would assume have the creator's approval.

I can only hope the show gets the massive Netflix viewer engagement stats it deserves; that should lead to a second season getting made. The staff certainly seems up for it.

[AmberVael]

I binged this show last night. Or this morning, more accurately.

The show is probably the best thing I've watched in a long while. Its cute and fun, I like the characters, and the world is a whimsical, fascinating fantasy. I love it, and I want more.

Assorted favorite bits: Twig, for being the most adorable pet ever. The librarian, who I like just because she's a mysterious, helpful gothy witch, but who became my favorite for her appearance in Episode 9. And the relationship between Hilda and her mother, because its just so well done.

[Legato Endless]

Imminently charming. A fetching adventure with a great mix of low context world building.

I like how mature Johanna and Hilda's relationship is for her age. Johanna responds, cares, and avoids the uselessness that so many fantasy parents labor under.

The creatures are also pretty fun little twists.

Storms that get conjured by the blight of social media comment threads run amok. Giants that guard the plane and leap into space. The Marra are just teenage girls with a toxic pathetic hobby of bullying. Demi-planes made up of the neglected spaces of houses. Will anything happen with the Tide Rats that jumped into Hilda's backpack?

[The Fury]

From what I can tell the creator of the comics is part of the animated show staff (credited with "developed by" and as writer for episodes 10 and 12; he's also storyboarded for Adventure Time before this), so any changes from the source material I would assume have the creator's approval.

I'd say that's fair to assume. It helps that the changes to the source material were largely for the better. Hilda's mother taking an active role in not just her daughter's adventures, but helping her get used to city life was a great change. As was expanding the roles of Hilda's friends.


I binged this show last night. Or this morning, more accurately.

The show is probably the best thing I've watched in a long while. Its cute and fun, I like the characters, and the world is a whimsical, fascinating fantasy. I love it, and I want more.

Assorted favorite bits: Twig, for being the most adorable pet ever. The librarian, who I like just because she's a mysterious, helpful gothy witch, but who became my favorite for her appearance in Episode 9. And the relationship between Hilda and her mother, because its just so well done.

As I mentioned, The Librarian is one of my favorite bits too. Though I'm not crazy about calling characters "mysterious," she's a mysterious character done really well. I feel like there's more to The Librarian that simply hasn't come up, rather than the story withholding information.

I like the relationship Hilda has with her mother as well. Hilda's Mum being an active and positive presence in her daughters life reminds me a little of Greg Universe's relationship with Steven.


.
Storms that get conjured by the blight of social media comment threads run amok. Giants that guard the plane and leap into space. The Marra are just teenage girls with a toxic pathetic hobby of bullying. Demi-planes made up of the neglected spaces of houses. Will anything happen with the Tide Rats that jumped into Hilda's backpack?

The Tide Mice appear under Hilda's bed in one scene, so it unlikely we've seen the last of them. Even if they might be a background element for a while.

[Metahuman1]

Well, I've started it after seeing a few mentions here and there. It's slow, atmospheric, takes it's time to breath so far, I'm just starting episode 3, and I like those things, I do. I actually like the Mum (Though I'm with Hilda on this one, she needs to just sign the paperwork.)

But it's not quite Gravity Falls or Over The Garden Wall. It's hard to pin down. I don't, dislike the art style persay, but it feels Calarts, and well, that was not all that common cira 2010-2014, it hadn't quite exploded yet. So when Over The Garden Wall and Gravity Falls were taking queues from it, it still felt, new.



Though what I'm afraid is going to be the real stumbling block is that I get the vibe there going to drag the "She doesn't fit in and doesn't function well in this particular environment, so you just get to sit and watch her awkwardly flounder through no fault of her own for most of the next 8-11 episodes, and THAT assumes were good enough to confine it in it's entirety to this one season." Maybe I'm wrong and by the half way point till be firmly in the rearview, and we can get back to doing the more interesting stuff we were doing for most of the first couple of episodes.

[The Fury]

Well, I've started it after seeing a few mentions here and there. It's slow, atmospheric, takes it's time to breath so far, I'm just starting episode 3, and I like those things, I do. I actually like the Mum (Though I'm with Hilda on this one, she needs to just sign the paperwork.)

But it's not quite Gravity Falls or Over The Garden Wall. It's hard to pin down. I don't, dislike the art style persay, but it feels Calarts, and well, that was not all that common cira 2010-2014, it hadn't quite exploded yet. So when Over The Garden Wall and Gravity Falls were taking queues from it, it still felt, new.



Though what I'm afraid is going to be the real stumbling block is that I get the vibe there going to drag the "She doesn't fit in and doesn't function well in this particular environment, so you just get to sit and watch her awkwardly flounder through no fault of her own for most of the next 8-11 episodes, and THAT assumes were good enough to confine it in it's entirety to this one season." Maybe I'm wrong and by the half way point till be firmly in the rearview, and we can get back to doing the more interesting stuff we were doing for most of the first couple of episodes.

After having watched the show, I feel like Gravity Falls and Over The Garden Wall are an OK point of comparison being shows that most animation fans are familiar with, and have moments that can feel similar to Hilda. All in all, I feel like Hilda is trying to be something new.

As for your other points-- if you stick with the show, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Metahuman1]

Ok. Just finished it.

Well, I will give it credit that it does feel like it's own thing at least. And that's becoming rather a commodity in it's own right.

I find taken on the whole it's charming. Not perfect, but charming. And it mercifully seems to have kept the whole thing "Hur Hur, look at her not fitting in and everyone around her not getting it and pushing her to fit in!" rather more limited than it at first suggested it would. Which I was ok with.

I find the mixing of Scandinavian and British Islands influences in the world building to make for a rather flavorful mix.


I do wonder if there not building toward something with that Liberian. Maybe were to find out later she's in the market for an apprentice?

[The Fury]

I find taken on the whole it's charming. Not perfect, but charming. And it mercifully seems to have kept the whole thing "Hur Hur, look at her not fitting in and everyone around her not getting it and pushing her to fit in!" rather more limited than it at first suggested it would. Which I was ok with.

I liked that these moments were there, but I also appreciate that they were short. I think they were really just there to show that Hilda needs some time to adjust to her new life, and eventually she does. Though I agree that keeping her as awkward and weird and failing to make friends with other kids would get old after a while.


I do wonder if there not building toward something with that Liberian. Maybe were to find out later she's in the market for an apprentice?

I wonder about that too. I didn't get the impression that The Librarian is necessarily looking for an apprentice. I can see her tutoring the kids in magic stuff though, after all, Hilda and her friends are probably going to mess with magic stuff anyway. At least she can make sure they're reasonably safe with it.

[Metahuman1]

I liked that these moments were there, but I also appreciate that they were short. I think they were really just there to show that Hilda needs some time to adjust to her new life, and eventually she does. Though I agree that keeping her as awkward and weird and failing to make friends with other kids would get old after a while.

The thing is is that we've seen that done. So many times. So many other places. It's gotten rather tedious to sit through. If/When I rewatch, I'm going to be sorely tempted to try to gloss over that stuff.


Also, random aside. How did we go the whole series and no one took the brats from episode 3 down a peg or two? Like, seriously, just a stern talking too and an implication they were going to have to face a consequence later for there crap.

Heck, just a stern look and a "We will be discussing this later. At Length." from like the teacher or there parents or something would have been enough.


I wonder about that too. I didn't get the impression that The Librarian is necessarily looking for an apprentice. I can see her tutoring the kids in magic stuff though, after all, Hilda and her friends are probably going to mess with magic stuff anyway. At least she can make sure they're reasonably safe with it.

I could see that. Particularly since Hilda got into the restricted section, used it, and nearly claimed the souls of her mother and friend with out meaning too. And may yet face a consequence since the tide mice or whatever they were called are still a background element. And if we get a second season, I'd say it's not entirely unlikely that they will wind up doing something or other with magic yet.

Besides, she'd see more a plot device than a support character if she was merely there to do this stuff and there wasn't more going on.

[random11]

The show did not appear in my recommended shows, or maybe it did and I just ignored it.
Then I saw this thread and decided to try it out.

All I can say is: Thank you for the thread!

I'm only 3 episodes in, and I find it charming, and fun.
Well, no time to write, episode 4 won't watch itself...

[The Fury]

Also, random aside. How did we go the whole series and no one took the brats from episode 3 down a peg or two? Like, seriously, just a stern talking too and an implication they were going to have to face a consequence later for there crap.

Heck, just a stern look and a "We will be discussing this later. At Length." from like the teacher or there parents or something would have been enough.


I don't know. I feel like these kids were behaving crappy and getting away with it long before Hilda got there. I'm guessing that any parents or teachers never learned that they were doing things like throwing rocks at birds or they don't care that they do. The notion that there's suddenly consequences because Hilda is personally appalled at this kind of thing seems a little contrived. Especially since the only adult directly involved was Hilda's Mum. Not to say that those kids didn't deserve some come-upance for what they did, I just feel like the scenerio wasn't set up to allow that to happen.


The show did not appear in my recommended shows, or maybe it did and I just ignored it.
Then I saw this thread and decided to try it out.

All I can say is: Thank you for the thread!

I'm only 3 episodes in, and I find it charming, and fun.
Well, no time to write, episode 4 won't watch itself...

You're welcome! I'm very glad to introduce people to new material that they end up liking.

Yeah, it never appeared on my recommended shows list either. I only found out that it was available to watch because the trailer dropped on YouTube. I can see why it's one of those shows that flies under the radar for a lot of people though. It seems like it would be a hard show to promote, because while it's cute show that makes for a very charming and comforting watch, (and even dives into a bit of the macabre,) it's a little different from Netflix's other animated shows that share a similar audience, (Voltron, The Dragon Prince, Wakfu, etc.) The main difference is that it doesn't start out with a built-in fanbase like Netflix's other animated properties, (while it's based on a graphic novel series, the graphic novels themselves seem to be critical darlings but lack a fan community.)

I'm hoping that changes, because there's actually some stuff to speculate about and discussions to be had.

[Metahuman1]

I don't know. I feel like these kids were behaving crappy and getting away with it long before Hilda got there. I'm guessing that any parents or teachers never learned that they were doing things like throwing rocks at birds or they don't care that they do. The notion that there's suddenly consequences because Hilda is personally appalled at this kind of thing seems a little contrived. Especially since the only adult directly involved was Hilda's Mum. Not to say that those kids didn't deserve some come-upance for what they did, I just feel like the scenerio wasn't set up to allow that to happen.



Ignoring for a moment that if the mother shows this off, or if they were between the two of them to get some at least semi-credible witnesses for next time (Doesn't even have to be, say, the other kids parents or the teacher. The Sparrow Scout Master or her two friends parents.),

What was stopping Raven from going to have a little word with them in his full sized Thunderbird form?

In that form I suspect he'd be the sort of thing that if he speaks ill of there behavior, it would be taken very seriously, right then and there.

Heck, he could have just told them off with a bit of a thunder and lighting special effect for show, and given them a taste of being scared straight, as the old expression goes. That would have been enough.

But even he just let's it go after that episode. The only one who didn't was the one brat that nearly drowned Raven, and he was allowed to sick his mother on Hilda and hers with impunity.


I get there's been a problem for awhile, and the set up is making that clear. What I'm not accepting is that after that incident it had to be a contrivance to pull them up short and have there be consequences for it. Again, once he'd recovered form getting dinged in the head, the victim form that episode could have fixed there little red wagons credibly and satisfactorily with no real issues or contrivance.

If it was the parents as well, he could have shamed the lot of them at the Parade for it in front of the whole town and that would have made sure something was really done about it.

[Silfir]

Huzzah! (https://twitter.com/hildatheseries/status/1049416868015034368)

Looks like whatever stats Netflix has been collecting on the series spoke a commanding language.

[The Fury]

Ignoring for a moment that if the mother shows this off, or if they were between the two of them to get some at least semi-credible witnesses for next time (Doesn't even have to be, say, the other kids parents or the teacher. The Sparrow Scout Master or her two friends parents.),

What was stopping Raven from going to have a little word with them in his full sized Thunderbird form?

In that form I suspect he'd be the sort of thing that if he speaks ill of there behavior, it would be taken very seriously, right then and there.

Heck, he could have just told them off with a bit of a thunder and lighting special effect for show, and given them a taste of being scared straight, as the old expression goes. That would have been enough.

But even he just let's it go after that episode. The only one who didn't was the one brat that nearly drowned Raven, and he was allowed to sick his mother on Hilda and hers with impunity.


I get there's been a problem for awhile, and the set up is making that clear. What I'm not accepting is that after that incident it had to be a contrivance to pull them up short and have there be consequences for it. Again, once he'd recovered form getting dinged in the head, the victim form that episode could have fixed there little red wagons credibly and satisfactorily with no real issues or contrivance.

If it was the parents as well, he could have shamed the lot of them at the Parade for it in front of the whole town and that would have made sure something was really done about it.

Yeah, I guess you could be right. Though it could also be that the characters involved had other things on their mind than giving a bully what for. Hilda would rather enjoy the parade with her Mum and T-Bird Raven would rather do... bird things? In either case, it could be that delivering some sort of come-uppance to Trevor was just a low priority.


Huzzah! (https://twitter.com/hildatheseries/status/1049416868015034368)

Looks like whatever stats Netflix has been collecting on the series spoke a commanding language.

Not much to add to this, but The Fury is pleased.

[Morty]

Yeah, I guess you could be right. Though it could also be that the characters involved had other things on their mind than giving a bully what for. Hilda would rather enjoy the parade with her Mum and T-Bird Raven would rather do... bird things? In either case, it could be that delivering some sort of come-uppance to Trevor was just a low priority.


More importantly, there's only a limited amount of time and resources to spend on making a show and punishing some mostly-nameless bully kids is just not a very good place to spend them. I'm about... halfway through it so far and I can't say there's been anything that I wish had been cut in favor of that. Five minutes spent dealing with that is five minutes not spent on something more funny or interesting.

[Metahuman1]

Yeah, I guess you could be right. Though it could also be that the characters involved had other things on their mind than giving a bully what for. Hilda would rather enjoy the parade with her Mum and T-Bird Raven would rather do... bird things? In either case, it could be that delivering some sort of come-uppance to Trevor was just a low priority.





I'd be more inclined to accept that, except that they drug Trevor up a couple of episodes later to have him sick his mother on Hilda and her Mum. Again with out any negative consequences to Trevor. That in fact lead to an escalation of events with the Rock Troll Infant.

One which might have been avoided if he'd already been taken down a couple of pegs in the manner he so clearly needs to be.

Not dealing with him cause everything else was a priority actively made things worse later down the line, cause he managed to run interference at a VERY bad time as a result. Even if he didn't mean to do it, he still managed it.



And episode time isn't a factor. All it would have taken was an off hand remark by Raven when he was parting ways with Hilda. "Ya know, I think I'm going to have a little talk with Trevor's parent(s) first thing tomorrow. And with all the rest of his friends parents. See if I can't make sure we won't ever have a repeat of this little incident." Give him a self assured look as he says it. Your talking about adding less than twenty seconds of screen time, even if Hilda makes a quick remark in reply before/as he fly's off. Hell, his mother telling Hilda off and him noticing she's in the class room could have been cut and made time for it.

[The Fury]

I'd be more inclined to accept that, except that they drug Trevor up a couple of episodes later to have him sick his mother on Hilda and her Mum. Again with out any negative consequences to Trevor. That in fact lead to an escalation of events with the Rock Troll Infant.

One which might have been avoided if he'd already been taken down a couple of pegs in the manner he so clearly needs to be.

Not dealing with him cause everything else was a priority actively made things worse later down the line, cause he managed to run interference at a VERY bad time as a result. Even if he didn't mean to do it, he still managed it.

I thought that episode was great for showing how interactions between parents tend to go. It also sort of showed why trying to take Trevor down a peg might've not worked out so good. As a result of messing with The Great Raven and seeing him transform into his Thunderbird size Trevor is now terrified of birds. Trevor's parents now see Hilda as a "little monster" with behavioral issues and Johanna as a bad parent. Trevor's parents clearly love him, but that makes them biased in his favor, even when he's done wrong.

In spite of all that, things came out pretty good for Hilda and her Mum.

Hilda will probably never be friends with Trevor and thanks to a certain level of favoritism, he'll probably get away with more than he deserves. Hilda has other, better friends though and even Hallgrim acknowledged that Hilda having David and Frida as friends is helping her learn and grow as a person.

Trevor's parents will probably always think Johanna is a bad parent, but David's and Frida's parents seem to like her though . Though they seem to think she's a little weird. Hallgrim seemed to like her too.

Not really related, but this episode is a little funnier in hindsight. Trevor calls Hilda a witch, and following the events of the Tidemice episode she kind of is.

[Metahuman1]

I thought that episode was great for showing how interactions between parents tend to go. It also sort of showed why trying to take Trevor down a peg might've not worked out so good. As a result of messing with The Great Raven and seeing him transform into his Thunderbird size Trevor is now terrified of birds. Trevor's parents now see Hilda as a "little monster" with behavioral issues and Johanna as a bad parent. Trevor's parents clearly love him, but that makes them biased in his favor, even when he's done wrong.

In spite of all that, things came out pretty good for Hilda and her Mum.

Hilda will probably never be friends with Trevor and thanks to a certain level of favoritism, he'll probably get away with more than he deserves. Hilda has other, better friends though and even Hallgrim acknowledged that Hilda having David and Frida as friends is helping her learn and grow as a person.

Trevor's parents will probably always think Johanna is a bad parent, but David's and Frida's parents seem to like her though . Though they seem to think she's a little weird. Hallgrim seemed to like her too.

Not really related, but this episode is a little funnier in hindsight. Trevor calls Hilda a witch, and following the events of the Tidemice episode she kind of is.

I'm not saying she needs to be friends with him. I'm saying he needs to be taken down a peg.

And he's not traumatized and afraid of birds. He was made to look uncool for a couple of minutes in front of his mates and tried to straight up murder Raven for that crime. And he faced no negative consequences for it, and even got a small measure of revenge on an involved party. He HATES birds, and Hilda, for this.

That's the sort of thing that does bad stuff to a person if it's allowed to keep going.



Hell at least with the evil nightmare spirit girls there's an argument there not entirely human.


Given that I'm to understand there's only 1 Graphic Novel left to adapt and they have a whole second season to fill, I'd not be surprised if they did something with Trevor to make him more of a problem for awhile in season 2. Some nasty spirit or something giving him help of some manner to get his revenge. Given that murder is a go to item for that in his book, that could be bad.

[Silfir]

What's your obsession with this Trevor character about, at this point? He's just a dumb kid. They didn't do more with him because he's really beneath Hilda's notice. Or our notice, for that matter.

[Metahuman1]

What's your obsession with this Trevor character about, at this point? He's just a dumb kid. They didn't do more with him because he's really beneath Hilda's notice. Or our notice, for that matter.

He rubs me thoroughly the wrong way. And again, he not only never receives comeuppance of any form that matters, for again, stop and really think, attempted murder, but get's to keep coming back to make things worse.

It's at best a hole that ought to be addressed. It's one that could have been settled with an off hand remark and now would probably eat a whole episode or something, but still needs to happen.

[Willie the Duck]

He rubs me thoroughly the wrong way. And again, he not only never receives comeuppance of any form that matters, for again, stop and really think, attempted murder, but get's to keep coming back to make things worse.

All in all, the series treats threats to the lives of middle school children with a (IRL) frightening level of nonchalance. First episode has the protagonist find a creature that will try to kill her, knowingly wait until the last minute to make her escape, not successfully escape, realize that it just wants her to remove the thorn in its pawbell on its nose, do so, have it then try to eat her... and no, actually it is giving her her book back, yay! (it completely might not have). And that's the world we feel bad for her having to leave.

I noticed that then, and kept noticing how many times Hilda attempts things she clearly isn't always going to succeed (because she doesn't always, and where the consequences could be deadly), and the reactions to such situations, and came to the conclusion that people know they have author-based immunity. I don't particularly like it when kids shows or movies do that, but it seems to be a trope.

Not to disagree in any way that Trevor doesn't deserve more rebuke, but it seems clear to me that the attempted murder (when one thinks about it) isn't considered that horrific that we need to see his comeuppance specifically because no one acts like life-threatening actions are genuinely dangerous.

[The Fury]

I'm not saying she needs to be friends with him. I'm saying he needs to be taken down a peg.

That may have been a poor choice of words on my part, I did not mean to suggest that Hilda can or should be friends. I only bring that up as a point of contrast as to why Trevor means far less to Hilda than do Frida and David. He might deserve to be taken down a peg, but Hilda, her Mum and T-bird Raven don't care enough about doing so.


And he's not traumatized and afraid of birds. He was made to look uncool for a couple of minutes in front of his mates and tried to straight up murder Raven for that crime. And he faced no negative consequences for it, and even got a small measure of revenge on an involved party. He HATES birds, and Hilda, for this.

I was willing to take his parents' word for it that Trevor is afraid now of birds, mostly because there's little evidence to the contrary. He might have lied to them, but we see nothing of him between seeing The Great Raven going full Thunderbird mode and the parent/teacher conference. Not to say your read is necessarily wrong though.

As for the attempted murder... I remember that slightly different than you do, so I went back and rewatched the episode. Yeah, he didn't try to kill the Raven. Alfur startled him and he accidentally dropped the cage with the Raven in it off the foot-bridge.


Hell at least with the evil nightmare spirit girls there's an argument there not entirely human.

They're one of the more interesting supernatural things in the show. For me largely because the opposite of what you just said applies equally-- it's not clear how inhuman they are. Kelly at the very least has parents and beloved childhood toy that she pretends to not care about and they suggest that they can make Frida into one of them.


Given that I'm to understand there's only 1 Graphic Novel left to adapt and they have a whole second season to fill, I'd not be surprised if they did something with Trevor to make him more of a problem for awhile in season 2. Some nasty spirit or something giving him help of some manner to get his revenge. Given that murder is a go to item for that in his book, that could be bad.

You are correct that there is one more graphic novel left to adapt. After having reread it, it might have to be adapted fairly loosely, and I still suspect that Luke Pearson wants to resolve the outcome of the cliffhanger ending in the sixth graphic novel before it appears in the show. In case anyone is wondering what the hell I'm even referring to, here's some spoiler action...

In the fifth graphic novel, Hilda's relationship with her Mum takes something of a turn. Her Mum is getting increasingly frustrated that Hilda is not telling her about the stuff she's getting up to and doesn't seem to want to spend time with her. Hilda meanwhile feels that her Mum isn't respecting her wishes or desire for independence. Over the course of the story, Hilda and her Mum find themselve on an adventure where they deal with trolls. Their personalities end up balancing each other out, Hilda's adventurous spirit and her Mum's shrewd caution end up getting them out of a potentially dangerous situation. In the end, the two make up and come to a sort of mutual understanding. Happy end... Or is it? The next morning, Hilda wakes up in a cave, finding that she's been turned into a troll, at the same time her Mum goes into Hilda's room to find that her daughter has been replaced with a changeling! That's our ending!

If this graphic novel were adapted into the series 100% faithfully, it would feel a little like a retread of a few episodes that we've already seen, (aside from Hilda being replaced and turned into a troll of course,) and the characterizations of Hilda would feel off. In the comics, Hilda has a more "kid's adventure story" releationship with her Mum. Where Hilda will go and have some crazy adventure while her Mum stayed at home. That's pretty different from how their relationship is portrayed in the show, where Johanna is a part of her daughter's adventures. In the graphic novel, the Mum makes Hilda play board games with her, and in the animated show, Hilda enjoys playing board games with her. At least, this is why I think if that story is adapted, it would benefit from a looser adaptation.

As for what future stories with Trevor might be... I don't know. Considering the various supernatural things running around, a lousy kid of seemingly average intelligence doesn't come off as a credible antagonist. Maybe he could dabble in supernatural junk too, or get something he shouldn't from the forbidden section of the library, but neither of those seem especially in character.


All in all, the series treats threats to the lives of middle school children with a (IRL) frightening level of nonchalance. First episode has the protagonist find a creature that will try to kill her, knowingly wait until the last minute to make her escape, not successfully escape, realize that it just wants her to remove the thorn in its pawbell on its nose, do so, have it then try to eat her... and no, actually it is giving her her book back, yay! (it completely might not have). And that's the world we feel bad for her having to leave.

I noticed that then, and kept noticing how many times Hilda attempts things she clearly isn't always going to succeed (because she doesn't always, and where the consequences could be deadly), and the reactions to such situations, and came to the conclusion that people know they have author-based immunity. I don't particularly like it when kids shows or movies do that, but it seems to be a trope.

Not to disagree in any way that Trevor doesn't deserve more rebuke, but it seems clear to me that the attempted murder (when one thinks about it) isn't considered that horrific that we need to see his comeuppance specifically because no one acts like life-threatening actions are genuinely dangerous.

It's fair to say that Hilda herself has an... odd relationship with danger. Being a young heroine in somewhat Miyazaki-type vein, she's not afraid of things that really ought to give her pause. Like jumping off of a cliff to ride a Woff. (Pro-tip: trying to ride a wild animal rarely works out well under the best of circumstances.) That's something that I feel like Hilda might be getting more conscientious of though. David being easily spooked and Frida calling fighting a ghost a "horrible experience" might have given her some perspective in respecting other people's limits. I hope.

[Morty]

If Trevor's mother hadn't raised a ruckus against Hilda, someone else would have, because that was one of that episode's central conflicts. And this way we had a reference to something Hilda had done, rather than something out of the blue. This really should be obvious, and don't we have more interesting things to talk about in the show than some irrelevant badly-raised kid?

[The Fury]

If Trevor's mother hadn't raised a ruckus against Hilda, someone else would have, because that was one of that episode's central conflicts. And this way we had a reference to something Hilda had done, rather than something out of the blue. This really should be obvious, and don't we have more interesting things to talk about in the show than some irrelevant badly-raised kid?

Yeah, probably. Like what seems to be a common issue that people have with the show, it's something that hasn't been brought up in this thread yet. The episode with the ghosts.

When I watch a review of the series, almost all of them bring up The Ghost and how Frida has a falling out with Hilda and David and how it felt out of character for everyone involved. Quite a few of them point out that Frida never apologizes either. I didn't have an issue with the episode, though it's a pretty understandable sticking point. What did y'all think of that episode?

[Silfir]

I'll take a better look at this when I rewatch the series.

Now, I didn't fully understand just what Frida's deal is, but she's a kid, and kids don't always make sense of their conflicting emotions well. The thing about Frida is that she's diligent and strives for perfection, but she's also fussy and doesn't handle being challenged that well. Having her friends discover that she doesn't clean her room and doesn't really know how was extremely embarrassing to her.

When you're a bright kid who derives a lot of self-esteem from being smarter and more hard-working than the other kids (and showing it by getting good grades and collecting lots of badges) having a new kid come along who doesn't care that much about grades or badges was fine at first, but then realizing that the new kid is actually smarter and braver than you are, just about things you didn't even imagine - that's got to be a blow as well. It's an issue she never had to deal with dealing with David, because David is 100% comfortable playing second fiddle and doesn't pose a challenge to her self-esteem in any way. (It also looks like David was the only kid who was fine dealing with her on a daily basis enough to be friends with her.)

So, there's Hilda, who she is starting to feel inferior to, and who also now knows a deeply embarrassing personal detail about her (that she doesn't clean her room and has been relying on a ghost to do it for her all this time), and just now included her in a reckless scheme that didn't accomplish anything they set out to do - so Frida blows up at her, throwing everything she can think of at her, some of which is kind of justified (we know Hilda can be super reckless about the supernatural) and some of which is just built-up resentment and inferiority ("You think you're the cool wilderness girl, all free-spirited and everything" - this is what Frida thinks of Hilda, and is deeply envious of - a classic case of projection). And Hilda, of course, isn't one to just get yelled at without hitting back (I'd say I'm pretty low-maintenance compared to you" - which is a perfectly accurate thing to say, but obviously not something that'll help defuse the situation).

After all of that goes down, it's no wonder Frida has no idea how to walk it back. They're kids; this is the first major friendship falling-out they've had to navigate. It looks to me like they made up with each other just fine without an explicit apology.

Insofar as the kids act out-of-character, they're doing it in the same way real human beings do. We present a certain version of ourselves to the outside world, but in a state of heightened emotion, we can act very differently, and it'll look strange - out-of-character - to those that know us. "Bad" OOC is when characters act differently than usual for no apparent reason, and I'd say there is plenty of justification here.

[Kitten Champion]

I would say they had to move out of character because their characterizations were the underlying issue. Frida being unclear of what hers' really is being the crux of it, David being resentful that Frida can't admit her fallibility when he's so open about his and not being the one relied upon to find solutions in the first place, and then Hilda who's got very limited experience with interpersonal conflicts such as these and is frustrated when her usual methods just don't work.

In terms of writing, it's pretty great as a method of rounding the characters off. Harry Potter took a similar approach with Harry-Ron-Hermione a few times, throwing a wrench in their dynamic that's not easily remedied without some degree of character growth.

[The Fury]

I'll take a better look at this when I rewatch the series.

Now, I didn't fully understand just what Frida's deal is, but she's a kid, and kids don't always make sense of their conflicting emotions well. The thing about Frida is that she's diligent and strives for perfection, but she's also fussy and doesn't handle being challenged that well. Having her friends discover that she doesn't clean her room and doesn't really know how was extremely embarrassing to her.

When you're a bright kid who derives a lot of self-esteem from being smarter and more hard-working than the other kids (and showing it by getting good grades and collecting lots of badges) having a new kid come along who doesn't care that much about grades or badges was fine at first, but then realizing that the new kid is actually smarter and braver than you are, just about things you didn't even imagine - that's got to be a blow as well. It's an issue she never had to deal with dealing with David, because David is 100% comfortable playing second fiddle and doesn't pose a challenge to her self-esteem in any way. (It also looks like David was the only kid who was fine dealing with her on a daily basis enough to be friends with her.)

So, there's Hilda, who she is starting to feel inferior to, and who also now knows a deeply embarrassing personal detail about her (that she doesn't clean her room and has been relying on a ghost to do it for her all this time), and just now included her in a reckless scheme that didn't accomplish anything they set out to do - so Frida blows up at her, throwing everything she can think of at her, some of which is kind of justified (we know Hilda can be super reckless about the supernatural) and some of which is just built-up resentment and inferiority ("You think you're the cool wilderness girl, all free-spirited and everything" - this is what Frida thinks of Hilda, and is deeply envious of - a classic case of projection). And Hilda, of course, isn't one to just get yelled at without hitting back (I'd say I'm pretty low-maintenance compared to you" - which is a perfectly accurate thing to say, but obviously not something that'll help defuse the situation).

After all of that goes down, it's no wonder Frida has no idea how to walk it back. They're kids; this is the first major friendship falling-out they've had to navigate. It looks to me like they made up with each other just fine without an explicit apology.

Insofar as the kids act out-of-character, they're doing it in the same way real human beings do. We present a certain version of ourselves to the outside world, but in a state of heightened emotion, we can act very differently, and it'll look strange - out-of-character - to those that know us. "Bad" OOC is when characters act differently than usual for no apparent reason, and I'd say there is plenty of justification here.

That's pretty close to how I interpreting what was going on. Frida had her self image challenged and reacted badly to it. David has gotten used to being the butt of jokes, and for once he had the chance to poke fun at someone else, which only made things worse. Hilda said what she did out of frustration with Frida acting out, which made things even worse yet.

Did our trio of friends handle the matter badly? Oh, yeah. That said, the inciting incident of Frida having her self image challenged and snowballing out of control felt believable to me. Plus how old are our protagonists? 8? 11? I don't think most people are hit with the "you're not as smart/organized/capable/whatever" bomb until they're much older, right?

Like I said, it's an issue others have had, one that I can sort of understand, but one I don't quite agree with. I will admit that it's one of the more unpleasant things to watch in the series, if for no other reason than seeing a friendship fall apart is an ugly thing.


I would say they had to move out of character because their characterizations were the underlying issue. Frida being unclear of what hers' really is being the crux of it, David being resentful that Frida can't admit her fallibility when he's so open about his and not being the one relied upon to find solutions in the first place, and then Hilda who's got very limited experience with interpersonal conflicts such as these and is frustrated when her usual methods just don't work.

In terms of writing, it's pretty great as a method of rounding the characters off. Harry Potter took a similar approach with Harry-Ron-Hermione a few times, throwing a wrench in their dynamic that's not easily remedied without some degree of character growth.

That's actually a good point too. I can even see how some of David's poking fun at Frida might've actually been him trying to be encouraging. In specific, his remarks that if she's not tidy and doesn't get good grades, she'll be like him. Maybe he was trying to say something to the effect of, "It will be alright. Even if you're not as tidy or smart as you thought, you won't be worthless, you'll be like me. That won't be so bad."

All in all, even though I didn't have any serious issues with The Ghost episode, I'm a little surprised that I spent less time discussing it, and more time discussing Trevor's role in the series.

[Metahuman1]

All in all, the series treats threats to the lives of middle school children with a (IRL) frightening level of nonchalance. First episode has the protagonist find a creature that will try to kill her, knowingly wait until the last minute to make her escape, not successfully escape, realize that it just wants her to remove the thorn in its pawbell on its nose, do so, have it then try to eat her... and no, actually it is giving her her book back, yay! (it completely might not have). And that's the world we feel bad for her having to leave.

I noticed that then, and kept noticing how many times Hilda attempts things she clearly isn't always going to succeed (because she doesn't always, and where the consequences could be deadly), and the reactions to such situations, and came to the conclusion that people know they have author-based immunity. I don't particularly like it when kids shows or movies do that, but it seems to be a trope.

Not to disagree in any way that Trevor doesn't deserve more rebuke, but it seems clear to me that the attempted murder (when one thinks about it) isn't considered that horrific that we need to see his comeuppance specifically because no one acts like life-threatening actions are genuinely dangerous.

Why do Jedi use Laserswords when personal armor or energy shields and blasters set to stun are so easily available and would be more practical?

Why does Star Fleet refuse to get it's act together even in war time to actually use the full implications of there technology, or why do they rely on it when it never works when the cameras are showing the audience the goings on?

Why is Conan The Barbarian as Masculine as he is?

Why are we not shown The Beast clearly prior to the end of Over The Garden Wall?



It's just one of those things that goes with the sort of movie or show Hilda is. A genera fixture. Calling it out too much just spoils the ride.



As for 1 Middle School brat not being enough of a threat, we saw what happens when someone whom is entirely and completely well meaning and has the best intentions plays with magic they don't fully understand. Imagien if Trevor got the ear of a somewhat dangerous and malevolent spirit or demon? Or got access to some scrapped tech that was still partially working from the crazy meteorologist lady? Anything. I submit he could EASLY be made such a threat, cause we know he's petty and vindictive and holds a grudge, and takes no responsibility for his role in causing his own problems.

Give the kid power or a weapon, maybe one he can use at a distance and there for thinks he can use with impunity from getting caught. Then let him be as he is. Boom. Done.


That may have been a poor choice of words on my part, I did not mean to suggest that Hilda can or should be friends. I only bring that up as a point of contrast as to why Trevor means far less to Hilda than do Frida and David. He might deserve to be taken down a peg, but Hilda, her Mum and T-bird Raven don't care enough about doing so.

Ok. Here's my thing though. Raven was kidnapped and nearly killed by that kid, after he seriously injured him. And raven knows the kid and his friends are a risk of doing the same thing again that set the whole thing in motion. Throwing rocks at random, normal sized birds, which he frequently qualifies as.

Hilda saw him ring leading this and was visibly appalled at it. And a big part of her characterization is that she is loathed to let wrongs remain wrongs if she thinks for an instant she has the power to do a thing about it. And she has every reason to believe they'll keep doing stuff like that if she doesn't.

Her Mum was accosted at what she knows by end of episode 5 to have been a horrible time by Trevor's mother, bashing her daughter mercilessly, for something she knows her daughter is innocent of. Her mum also knows what he get's up too, and that her daughter risked drowning trying to fix it.

It makes no sense for all 3 of them to not care and let it go. It's inconsistent with how there characterized for basically the rest of the show, before and after. I understand him only warranting a quick "Oh, I dealt with it/ am going to deal with it." comment, but we didn't even get that.




I was willing to take his parents' word for it that Trevor is afraid now of birds, mostly because there's little evidence to the contrary. He might have lied to them, but we see nothing of him between seeing The Great Raven going full Thunderbird mode and the parent/teacher conference. Not to say your read is necessarily wrong though.

We also see no evidence that he's telling the truth about it either. Indeed, given that smug smirk he was sporting in that scene, his behavior toward raven being anything other than anger at Raven daring to be something other that what he wanted it to be, a thing he could harm and throw rocks at with utter impunity when he was on camera in the incident we are late told by his mother "traumatized him.", and the fact that he's NEVER, we are lead to believe, had someone come down on him, there is in fact more evidence, albeit circumstantial in some bits, that he was not traumatized, merely trying to use his mother to get revenge on Hilda, or at least on her mother as a sort of petty hurt by association.

Heck, take a good look at that face of his. Mild to moderate surprise and ever so mild concern when Hilda's in the water afterword's. That latter part likely because he's concerned he'll be in trouble because she got hurt. And then he's surprised when The Great Raven comes out of the water with the girl on his back. He wasn't actually expecting that.

Nothing on his face or in his voice suggests actual trauma or the like. Nothing when we see him again in episode 5 either.


As for the attempted murder... I remember that slightly different than you do, so I went back and rewatched the episode. Yeah, he didn't try to kill the Raven. Alfur startled him and he accidentally dropped the cage with the Raven in it off the foot-bridge. .

I went back and looked at it again just now. From about when he catches Raven till the scene were Hilda and Rave are airborn and Raven starts his backstory.

Ok, I could swear I remember him deliberately shoving raven in the water, or at the very least saying something about getting even for embarrassing him or something to that effect. Evidently I am wrong and did not remember that correctly. I still don't like the brat and want to see him taken down a peg or two, but I'll concede when I am firmly wrong.


They're one of the more interesting supernatural things in the show. For me largely because the opposite of what you just said applies equally-- it's not clear how inhuman they are. Kelly at the very least has parents and beloved childhood toy that she pretends to not care about and they suggest that they can make Frida into one of them.

That's the interesting thing though. There are signs they could be humans with a weird magic trick or two, but there are also dialog that suggests there not really human at all. They must fall somewhere on the spectrum, but the question is, were?


You are correct that there is one more graphic novel left to adapt. After having reread it, it might have to be adapted fairly loosely, and I still suspect that Luke Pearson wants to resolve the outcome of the cliffhanger ending in the sixth graphic novel before it appears in the show. In case anyone is wondering what the hell I'm even referring to, here's some spoiler action...

In the fifth graphic novel, Hilda's relationship with her Mum takes something of a turn. Her Mum is getting increasingly frustrated that Hilda is not telling her about the stuff she's getting up to and doesn't seem to want to spend time with her. Hilda meanwhile feels that her Mum isn't respecting her wishes or desire for independence. Over the course of the story, Hilda and her Mum find themselve on an adventure where they deal with trolls. Their personalities end up balancing each other out, Hilda's adventurous spirit and her Mum's shrewd caution end up getting them out of a potentially dangerous situation. In the end, the two make up and come to a sort of mutual understanding. Happy end... Or is it? The next morning, Hilda wakes up in a cave, finding that she's been turned into a troll, at the same time her Mum goes into Hilda's room to find that her daughter has been replaced with a changeling! That's our ending!

If this graphic novel were adapted into the series 100% faithfully, it would feel a little like a retread of a few episodes that we've already seen, (aside from Hilda being replaced and turned into a troll of course,) and the characterizations of Hilda would feel off. In the comics, Hilda has a more "kid's adventure story" releationship with her Mum. Where Hilda will go and have some crazy adventure while her Mum stayed at home. That's pretty different from how their relationship is portrayed in the show, where Johanna is a part of her daughter's adventures. In the graphic novel, the Mum makes Hilda play board games with her, and in the animated show, Hilda enjoys playing board games with her. At least, this is why I think if that story is adapted, it would benefit from a looser adaptation.

As for what future stories with Trevor might be... I don't know. Considering the various supernatural things running around, a lousy kid of seemingly average intelligence doesn't come off as a credible antagonist. Maybe he could dabble in supernatural junk too, or get something he shouldn't from the forbidden section of the library, but neither of those seem especially in character.

I'm going to skip the spoilers if it's all the same, cause, well, spoilers.

That all said, I think it would be perfectly in character. He's a spoiled brat and a bully who's accustomed to getting his way. Let him get a smidge of power like I talked about above when responding too Willie the Duck, and I bet he'd make a solid 1 episode long antagonist. Maybe 2 if the gameplan turns out to be to filler season 2 out with original content, and then use the most recent Graphic novel to give season 2 a cliffhanger ending, and get the 3rd graphic novel out in time to get it in ahead of season 3, as a wrap up.




It's fair to say that Hilda herself has an... odd relationship with danger. Being a young heroine in somewhat Miyazaki-type vein, she's not afraid of things that really ought to give her pause. Like jumping off of a cliff to ride a Woff. (Pro-tip: trying to ride a wild animal rarely works out well under the best of circumstances.) That's something that I feel like Hilda might be getting more conscientious of though. David being easily spooked and Frida calling fighting a ghost a "horrible experience" might have given her some perspective in respecting other people's limits. I hope.

Again, as I said to Willie the Duck. It's a core assumption. Sort of like it's a core Assumption with Batman that he's good enough to avoid getting taken out by bad guys who have large groups and use guns and are hardened, violent killers for most of there lives.

Or that Jedi use Laserswords.

It's best to just leave that aspect be.



As for her developing, perhaps, but there's an argument to be made the other way as well. She's done things that ought to have been impossible by going this route with it. Maybe the others need to learn to push there own boundaries out a bit further.

Heck, maybe it's both and they should be seeking to meet in the middle.


If Trevor's mother hadn't raised a ruckus against Hilda, someone else would have, because that was one of that episode's central conflicts. And this way we had a reference to something Hilda had done, rather than something out of the blue. This really should be obvious, and don't we have more interesting things to talk about in the show than some irrelevant badly-raised kid?

Perhaps. But the thing is, the badly raised kid was an annoyance. And managed to stand out as such in a show that did an excellent job of avoiding problems like that. Makes it stick out, at least were I'm sitting, since it was easily preventable. Heck, even if he HAD come back to set his Mother on them, if he'd at least gotten something via way of reasonable comeuppance already that would have not been a big deal by that stage.


Yeah, probably. Like what seems to be a common issue that people have with the show, it's something that hasn't been brought up in this thread yet. The episode with the ghosts.

When I watch a review of the series, almost all of them bring up The Ghost and how Frida has a falling out with Hilda and David and how it felt out of character for everyone involved. Quite a few of them point out that Frida never apologizes either. I didn't have an issue with the episode, though it's a pretty understandable sticking point. What did y'all think of that episode?

I dunno, I like that the show has a sort of safety net in so far as what happens after you go off the mortal coil.

As for Frieda, I have more of a problem that the same girl who was straight up willing to tell David to his face it's everyone for themselves in episode 3, now has no ability to take it when he wants to give her a bit of grief about something utterly trivial.


I'll take a better look at this when I rewatch the series.

Now, I didn't fully understand just what Frida's deal is, but she's a kid, and kids don't always make sense of their conflicting emotions well. The thing about Frida is that she's diligent and strives for perfection, but she's also fussy and doesn't handle being challenged that well. Having her friends discover that she doesn't clean her room and doesn't really know how was extremely embarrassing to her.

When you're a bright kid who derives a lot of self-esteem from being smarter and more hard-working than the other kids (and showing it by getting good grades and collecting lots of badges) having a new kid come along who doesn't care that much about grades or badges was fine at first, but then realizing that the new kid is actually smarter and braver than you are, just about things you didn't even imagine - that's got to be a blow as well. It's an issue she never had to deal with dealing with David, because David is 100% comfortable playing second fiddle and doesn't pose a challenge to her self-esteem in any way. (It also looks like David was the only kid who was fine dealing with her on a daily basis enough to be friends with her.)

So, there's Hilda, who she is starting to feel inferior to, and who also now knows a deeply embarrassing personal detail about her (that she doesn't clean her room and has been relying on a ghost to do it for her all this time), and just now included her in a reckless scheme that didn't accomplish anything they set out to do - so Frida blows up at her, throwing everything she can think of at her, some of which is kind of justified (we know Hilda can be super reckless about the supernatural) and some of which is just built-up resentment and inferiority ("You think you're the cool wilderness girl, all free-spirited and everything" - this is what Frida thinks of Hilda, and is deeply envious of - a classic case of projection). And Hilda, of course, isn't one to just get yelled at without hitting back (I'd say I'm pretty low-maintenance compared to you" - which is a perfectly accurate thing to say, but obviously not something that'll help defuse the situation).

After all of that goes down, it's no wonder Frida has no idea how to walk it back. They're kids; this is the first major friendship falling-out they've had to navigate. It looks to me like they made up with each other just fine without an explicit apology.

Insofar as the kids act out-of-character, they're doing it in the same way real human beings do. We present a certain version of ourselves to the outside world, but in a state of heightened emotion, we can act very differently, and it'll look strange - out-of-character - to those that know us. "Bad" OOC is when characters act differently than usual for no apparent reason, and I'd say there is plenty of justification here.

Just an addendum to this as I feel it's mostly accurate.

We also see signs that Frieda has a bit of a tendency with being excessive about the things she's excessive about from her Parents. Remember, her parents wanted to talk to the teacher in Episode 5 to get her extra math work, cause her math grade had slipped all the way from a 100 to a 99.

Then later near the end of the series when Hilda's Mum is trying to find were Hilda went, she calls Frieda's parents to ask if she's over there, asks them to keep an eye out, and Frieda's mother makes a crack about how hard it is to provide proper and sufficient supervision when your a single parent, to Hilda's Mum's clear annoyance.



I would say they had to move out of character because their characterizations were the underlying issue. Frida being unclear of what hers' really is being the crux of it, David being resentful that Frida can't admit her fallibility when he's so open about his and not being the one relied upon to find solutions in the first place, and then Hilda who's got very limited experience with interpersonal conflicts such as these and is frustrated when her usual methods just don't work.

In terms of writing, it's pretty great as a method of rounding the characters off. Harry Potter took a similar approach with Harry-Ron-Hermione a few times, throwing a wrench in their dynamic that's not easily remedied without some degree of character growth.

About the size of it.




That's pretty close to how I interpreting what was going on. Frida had her self image challenged and reacted badly to it. David has gotten used to being the butt of jokes, and for once he had the chance to poke fun at someone else, which only made things worse. Hilda said what she did out of frustration with Frida acting out, which made things even worse yet.

Did our trio of friends handle the matter badly? Oh, yeah. That said, the inciting incident of Frida having her self image challenged and snowballing out of control felt believable to me. Plus how old are our protagonists? 8? 11? I don't think most people are hit with the "you're not as smart/organized/capable/whatever" bomb until they're much older, right?

Like I said, it's an issue others have had, one that I can sort of understand, but one I don't quite agree with. I will admit that it's one of the more unpleasant things to watch in the series, if for no other reason than seeing a friendship fall apart is an ugly thing.

The ages involve do in fact make it more forgivable, though I grant I'm perhaps a touch harder on Frieda because she made that "oh, were in trouble, well, I prepped for me so your on your own." crack to David in episode 3 before they had met Hilda. I think David getting to rib her after that abit was just fair play turnabout frankly. I understand, but don't totally accept, if you will. At least not blindly. I do agree regardless she basically managed to redeem herself from it by the end of the series.



That's actually a good point too. I can even see how some of David's poking fun at Frida might've actually been him trying to be encouraging. In specific, his remarks that if she's not tidy and doesn't get good grades, she'll be like him. Maybe he was trying to say something to the effect of, "It will be alright. Even if you're not as tidy or smart as you thought, you won't be worthless, you'll be like me. That won't be so bad."

All in all, even though I didn't have any serious issues with The Ghost episode, I'm a little surprised that I spent less time discussing it, and more time discussing Trevor's role in the series.

Mayhaps it's because all in all, most of the rest of the series was good, but Trevor managed to be one of the short list of rough spots, and that made it more noticeable for some party's? Sort of like how most B5 fans know very well about Grey 17 is Missing, and most Star Trek fans know to avoid Spocks Brain for much of anything other than riffing material? Except this show managed to keep that down from whole episodes to 1 minor antagonist?

[The Fury]

As for 1 Middle School brat not being enough of a threat, we saw what happens when someone whom is entirely and completely well meaning and has the best intentions plays with magic they don't fully understand. Imagien if Trevor got the ear of a somewhat dangerous and malevolent spirit or demon? Or got access to some scrapped tech that was still partially working from the crazy meteorologist lady? Anything. I submit he could EASLY be made such a threat, cause we know he's petty and vindictive and holds a grudge, and takes no responsibility for his role in causing his own problems.

Give the kid power or a weapon, maybe one he can use at a distance and there for thinks he can use with impunity from getting caught. Then let him be as he is. Boom. Done.

I know what I said about Gravity Falls not being a great comparison to Hilda. I'm going to compare them anyway. Consider how Gideon was characterized in Gravity Falls, he's a manipulative little weasel that's used to getting his own way. Even his relationship with his parents is clearly presented as one built around coercion and cruelty. Aside from that, he's dabbled in the supernatural which, when combined with his money and reputation gives him an edge over the more intelligent Dipper.

Trevor meanwhile... is just a kid. He might use lies to play on the sympathies of his teachers or his parents, he's implied to be less intelligent than Hilda but the show does not go out of its way to demonstrate that Trevor's capable of the kind heinous behavior that Gideon gets up to.

I bring this up because Gideon's behavior matched up well with his personality and what he seemed capable of doing. What you're suggesting... Yeah I'm not so sure. While getting ahold of Victoria Van Gale's meteorology tech, or getting some spell book that allows demon summoning is plausible for the setting, I just don't feel it's plausible for the character. Why would Trevor be rooting around some scrapheap that has weather machine parts? This is a kid who's idea of a good time is ding-dong ditch. Trevor could just as easily as Hilda get a book from the forbidden section of the library, but what would he be doing in the library? He doesn't strike me as much of a reader. I'm thinking making crank calls to Hilda's house is more this guy's speed.


We also see no evidence that he's telling the truth about it either. Indeed, given that smug smirk he was sporting in that scene, his behavior toward raven being anything other than anger at Raven daring to be something other that what he wanted it to be, a thing he could harm and throw rocks at with utter impunity when he was on camera in the incident we are late told by his mother "traumatized him.", and the fact that he's NEVER, we are lead to believe, had someone come down on him, there is in fact more evidence, albeit circumstantial in some bits, that he was not traumatized, merely trying to use his mother to get revenge on Hilda, or at least on her mother as a sort of petty hurt by association.

Heck, take a good look at that face of his. Mild to moderate surprise and ever so mild concern when Hilda's in the water afterword's. That latter part likely because he's concerned he'll be in trouble because she got hurt. And then he's surprised when The Great Raven comes out of the water with the girl on his back. He wasn't actually expecting that.

Nothing on his face or in his voice suggests actual trauma or the like. Nothing when we see him again in episode 5 either.

Sure. Though I prefer to err on the side assuming what's superficially presented as true about given characters probably is true unless the narrative takes the time to suggest that things aren't quite what they seem. Do you remember the Sparrow Scout with the big, fluffy blond hair? During the game of stingball they play to initiate Hilda into the scouts, a ball gets stuck in her hair. It was super cute. Anyway, there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that she doesn't own an ancient grimoire that afflicts aphasia on whoever tries to read it. It makes sense for something like that to exist in the setting, but the story never took time to suggest that it's true so I'm assuming it's not.



That's the interesting thing though. There are signs they could be humans with a weird magic trick or two, but there are also dialog that suggests there not really human at all. They must fall somewhere on the spectrum, but the question is, were?

The theory that I've been operating under is that they were all fully human once, Kelly having what appear to be ordinary human parents, and was apparently a normal kid at one point. There was also the remark that Frida could become one too. As for how human they are still... That's harder to answer. They don't seem much more human than things like elves, nisse or The Woodman, and indeed they seem pretty powerful as the setting's supernatural beings seem to go. Though they're not completely monstrous either and have had minor humanizing moments.

Just as an aside, in the Nightmare Spirit episode, when the marra shows up after David tells Hilda that he got to have dreams about sweets only to scoff "It's no fun giving nightmares to people that ask for them," I like to think that she was the one that gave David his dreams about sweets. Maybe my inner sap just loves that kind of stuff.


I'm going to skip the spoilers if it's all the same, cause, well, spoilers.

Hey, that's why I even bother to hide spoilers in the first place, my dude.


That all said, I think it would be perfectly in character. He's a spoiled brat and a bully who's accustomed to getting his way. Let him get a smidge of power like I talked about above when responding too Willie the Duck, and I bet he'd make a solid 1 episode long antagonist. Maybe 2 if the gameplan turns out to be to filler season 2 out with original content, and then use the most recent Graphic novel to give season 2 a cliffhanger ending, and get the 3rd graphic novel out in time to get it in ahead of season 3, as a wrap up.

Going back to my contrast with Gideon... Trevor might be a somewhat bratty kid used to getting his way, and Hilda did manage to get one over on him. That said, while Gideon was willing to devote large amounts of time concocting plans to destroy the Pines family, Trevor... yeah I don't think so. He'll happily take opportunities that pop up, (That weird girl is shaping up to be a problem student? Now strange stuff is happening? I'll bet that I can use this to get her into trouble!) but he doesn't seem like much of a planner. On top of that, Trevor isn't as smart, brave or athletic as Hilda. I can't see him ever being anthing more than a minor antagonist.


Mayhaps it's because all in all, most of the rest of the series was good, but Trevor managed to be one of the short list of rough spots, and that made it more noticeable for some party's? Sort of like how most B5 fans know very well about Grey 17 is Missing, and most Star Trek fans know to avoid Spocks Brain for much of anything other than riffing material? Except this show managed to keep that down from whole episodes to 1 minor antagonist?

Just to absolutely clear that I mean this in the best possible way, I chalk it up to The Giant in the Playground Forums being different from the rest of the internet. I think as a general rule, users of these forums don't think in quite the same way as most, (again, I mean this as a possitive,) so when I started this thread, my exact thought was: "An animated series based on a critically acclaimed but largely obscure British graphic novel series? Would anyone be interested in discussing that? Well, I suppose here someone might be."

I guess it makes sense that the stumbling block a user of these forums has would also be different from the normal one.

[Metahuman1]

I know what I said about Gravity Falls not being a great comparison to Hilda. I'm going to compare them anyway. Consider how Gideon was characterized in Gravity Falls, he's a manipulative little weasel that's used to getting his own way. Even his relationship with his parents is clearly presented as one built around coercion and cruelty. Aside from that, he's dabbled in the supernatural which, when combined with his money and reputation gives him an edge over the more intelligent Dipper.

Trevor meanwhile... is just a kid. He might use lies to play on the sympathies of his teachers or his parents, he's implied to be less intelligent than Hilda but the show does not go out of its way to demonstrate that Trevor's capable of the kind heinous behavior that Gideon gets up to.

I bring this up because Gideon's behavior matched up well with his personality and what he seemed capable of doing. What you're suggesting... Yeah I'm not so sure. While getting ahold of Victoria Van Gale's meteorology tech, or getting some spell book that allows demon summoning is plausible for the setting, I just don't feel it's plausible for the character. Why would Trevor be rooting around some scrapheap that has weather machine parts? This is a kid who's idea of a good time is ding-dong ditch. Trevor could just as easily as Hilda get a book from the forbidden section of the library, but what would he be doing in the library? He doesn't strike me as much of a reader. I'm thinking making crank calls to Hilda's house is more this guy's speed.

He doesn't need to be sorting some scrapheap or digging through the library. He could, some scheme were he's getting a few cents per item for recyclable bottles or cans or the like to get *Insert minor thing kids want/like here, perhaps that his parents wouldn't want to buy for him for *Insert valid parental reason here that a kid won't care about if they even understand it.** and stumble on the junked remains. But he doesn't need to be, there are loads of other ways to get what would be needed to make him a problem worth sorting out properly this time.

Or he could be stuck in the Library not because he has any WANT to be there, but because he has to finish a project for school. One he holds in contempt having to do at all, but knows he's got to slog through to stay out of trouble. Then he stumbled on the section while the Librarian was either out or otherwise engaged with something that was a much bigger priority than him at the time. This is however not a path necessary to get him to were the story would need him for this to reasonably be a thing that needs to be addressed.

Or again, I'm sure there are a thousand or more other ways he could get something. Let him meander about an old pawn shop and shop lift or just straight buy/trade with something he brought in to sell for utterly unrelated reason(s), and find something mildly to moderately magical. Let him just be out in the park on a day off from school grousing about Hilda and her friends as the wrong spirit is passing through, and have it decide to buddy up with him and go after them, perhaps being taken in because it only has his side of the story to go off of. Both of those took less than 60 seconds for me to come up with. I'm sure pros with time could do loads better.

And if you don't think a Bully who believes they can get away with it Scott Free won't escalate and escalate alarmingly fast, you have had to privilege of having to deal with precious few even vaguely physically inclined childhood bullies. I on the other hand know exactly what they'll do from hard acquired experience. Very physically unpleasant experience. So, I still believe, give him the tool to think he's in a position of advantage and can act with out risking outside consequences, he'll almost certainly still loose, but he'll be a credible problem that requires attending too for an episode or two.

He'll certainly never be any kind of season long foe or anything like that, but 1-2 episodes, that's doable.


Sure. Though I prefer to err on the side assuming what's superficially presented as true about given characters probably is true unless the narrative takes the time to suggest that things aren't quite what they seem. Do you remember the Sparrow Scout with the big, fluffy blond hair? During the game of stingball they play to initiate Hilda into the scouts, a ball gets stuck in her hair. It was super cute. Anyway, there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that she doesn't own an ancient grimoire that afflicts aphasia on whoever tries to read it. It makes sense for something like that to exist in the setting, but the story never took time to suggest that it's true so I'm assuming it's not.

But it does take the time. It shows us the initial event and him not looking or acting Traumatized at the time, shows us an annoyed and petty but not Traumatized Trevor, and then has Trevor's mother confront Trevor while he stands behind his mother, out of his mothers field of vision, with a so smug you could punch it smile on his face. And we know he's a nasty, nasty kid. It's entirely logical and would be entirely in keeping for him to lie abit to smear Hilda some were he can, because he's mad at her for showing him up one time. How very dare she after all.

I don't actually remember that kid. Does that kid get any speaking lines? Or any that wind up being important to any episode plots? Cause that's the difference. The show doesn't need to tell us one way or the other anything about that character, because she's a background character. Trevor, minor though he was, is an actual named antagonist.





The theory that I've been operating under is that they were all fully human once, Kelly having what appear to be ordinary human parents, and was apparently a normal kid at one point. There was also the remark that Frida could become one too. As for how human they are still... That's harder to answer. They don't seem much more human than things like elves, nisse or The Woodman, and indeed they seem pretty powerful as the setting's supernatural beings seem to go. Though they're not completely monstrous either and have had minor humanizing moments.

Just as an aside, in the Nightmare Spirit episode, when the marra shows up after David tells Hilda that he got to have dreams about sweets only to scoff "It's no fun giving nightmares to people that ask for them," I like to think that she was the one that gave David his dreams about sweets. Maybe my inner sap just loves that kind of stuff.

Eh, I dunno, they seem to only have a couple of tricks. There not slouches, but there not like the house spirits or people who have learned to use the house spirits trick, because we saw how potent that was and how much you could do with it. There not in a physical weight class with transformed Thunderbirds or Weather Spirits or Any of the Giant flavors we see. And we've got implications that proper witches and wizards and the like exist and have a lot of crazy stuff they can do thanks to the Tidemice episode.

Then again, maybe there also all relatively knew too it in the grand scheme of things. Yellow or Green Belts to use a marital arts analogy. Meaning with time and use, they'll get more formidable.

Course the question if that's true is does it involve loosing there humanity along the way? Or are we perhaps even overestimating were they are/can go on that front, and at the end of the day, calling them spirits was the stretch. That there more just humans with a few, specific tricks up there sleeves and not totally unexpected teenage attitude problems that they'll likely eventually outgrow?

And while it might be sappy and I see a lack of in show support for that idea so far, Hilda having earned a modocrom of respect has a certain logic too it, and them having the power to go the other way with what they do, does have it's own interesting implications. For starters by making the whole lot of them less inherently malevolent.




Hey, that's why I even bother to hide spoilers in the first place, my dude.

Gotcha.




Going back to my contrast with Gideon... Trevor might be a somewhat bratty kid used to getting his way, and Hilda did manage to get one over on him. That said, while Gideon was willing to devote large amounts of time concocting plans to destroy the Pines family, Trevor... yeah I don't think so. He'll happily take opportunities that pop up, (That weird girl is shaping up to be a problem student? Now strange stuff is happening? I'll bet that I can use this to get her into trouble!) but he doesn't seem like much of a planner. On top of that, Trevor isn't as smart, brave or athletic as Hilda. I can't see him ever being anthing more than a minor antagonist.

An antagonist doesn't need to be brave. Or smart far as that goes. They just need to have enough power to make them confident enough to begin causing problems, and a motive to do so. Give him any of the kinds of supernatural help I've mentioned now, and let him think that means he's the one with more power now, and then just let him act as his personality dictates he would. Bonus if he also has reason to believe he'll never get caught by the authority figures in his life when he does. He'll rather reasonably make a move.

Remember, I never said he needed to Defeat Hilda cleanly, or even be in major danger of doing so.

All what I'm talking about really requires is that he be playing in a way and to a degree that it becomes reasonable for her to spend an episode, 2 if there looking for a time sink during the season, dealing with him before she's successfully fixed his metaphorical little red wagon. Then wrap that up with his parents having proof dropped in there laps and saying something like "Were going to have a long talk about this." and him looking very unhappy about it when last we see him. Or Raven giving him a good through dressing down before telling him to leave and Trevor running off, now legitimately afraid. Boom. Done.



Just to absolutely clear that I mean this in the best possible way, I chalk it up to The Giant in the Playground Forums being different from the rest of the internet. I think as a general rule, users of these forums don't think in quite the same way as most, (again, I mean this as a possitive,) so when I started this thread, my exact thought was: "An animated series based on a critically acclaimed but largely obscure British graphic novel series? Would anyone be interested in discussing that? Well, I suppose here someone might be."

I guess it makes sense that the stumbling block a user of these forums has would also be different from the normal one.

Perhaps. For better or worse is not my judgment call to make on that. Not sure how I feel that me pointing out "Here was a thing that did not Gel well and was a bad spot and the rest of the show was so good it was really noticeable by comparison. Like a big red wine stain on the white seats of an otherwise perfectly restored Antique Car. It's not going to totally ruin it and it can be dealt with, but it is VERY noticeable when the whole rest of the car has been restored to the point that it could be factory new off the lot." being regarded as a stumbling block though.





Something I WILL give the show credit for is doing something with Elves being about as far divorced form Tolkien as you can get.

And doing something with Giant Lore that goes past a pat one sentence hand-wave just to introduce a plot device.

[BeerMug Paladin]

I'm not sure what I think of this show. I've seen a few episodes a while ago and didn't really get into it. The setting being a fantasy world city is pretty different and unexpected, though. I wasn't expecting that to happen, and being surprised about how a story arc (especially the first one) concludes is always a plus.

I want to say that Hilda seems a bit too blasé about supposedly dangerous activities, which for me sort of undermines the feel that these are adventures. But that can't really be it because there are characters who casually endanger themselves all across fiction. Plus I don't really think that's quite so. She's just familiar with handling the unusual, which is a quite different thing.

[Morty]

Well, I've finally got around to finishing this. The ninth episode certainly raised the stakes, but I agree that Frida's behavior fits her. She had her world-view shaken up badly. And it's not like she's entirely wrong about Hilda and her tendency to just rush blindly into whatever she thinks is a good idea at the time.

There's a lot of casual mayhem and destruction of property, in general, which everyone sorts of takes for granted. But that's jut a cartoon convention, really. I do like that supernatural beings are portrayed as dangerous and not quite in-line with how humans think, though. Means that humans do have a reason to be afraid of them. Too many stories fall into the trap of just acting like humans are silly and prejudiced.

[The Fury]

I don't actually remember that kid. Does that kid get any speaking lines? Or any that wind up being important to any episode plots? Cause that's the difference. The show doesn't need to tell us one way or the other anything about that character, because she's a background character. Trevor, minor though he was, is an actual named antagonist.

I literally described her entire role in the series. While I'll grant you that speculating on the personal lives of background characters is a little silly, I stick by the point that I was making-- if the writing doesn't make a point of firmly establishing character traits, they either don't have them or they're unimportant.

All that said, the whole Trevor thing seems to be something that we'll have to agree to disagree on. I gather you seem to think that he'd make a decent arc villain or foil to our heroine, I think he's not clever enough and too lazy to be able to pull it off plausibly.


Eh, I dunno, they seem to only have a couple of tricks. There not slouches, but there not like the house spirits or people who have learned to use the house spirits trick, because we saw how potent that was and how much you could do with it. There not in a physical weight class with transformed Thunderbirds or Weather Spirits or Any of the Giant flavors we see. And we've got implications that proper witches and wizards and the like exist and have a lot of crazy stuff they can do thanks to the Tidemice episode.

Then again, maybe there also all relatively knew too it in the grand scheme of things. Yellow or Green Belts to use a marital arts analogy. Meaning with time and use, they'll get more formidable.

Course the question if that's true is does it involve loosing there humanity along the way? Or are we perhaps even overestimating were they are/can go on that front, and at the end of the day, calling them spirits was the stretch. That there more just humans with a few, specific tricks up there sleeves and not totally unexpected teenage attitude problems that they'll likely eventually outgrow?

And while it might be sappy and I see a lack of in show support for that idea so far, Hilda having earned a modocrom of respect has a certain logic too it, and them having the power to go the other way with what they do, does have it's own interesting implications. For starters by making the whole lot of them less inherently malevolent.

Maybe. Though the Marras' main trick, giving people nightmares, is a pretty potent one. With persistence and creativity, that power could be used to get someone to seriously doubt their sanity. Pretty terrifying stuff, especially for what's an otherwise pretty lighthearted show.

I like the implication that they can use their powers for good as well. Though I think it's partially because of my distaste for the whole Bad Powers, Bad People trope. That, and... yeah, like I mentioned, I'm a bit of a sap.



Perhaps. For better or worse is not my judgment call to make on that. Not sure how I feel that me pointing out "Here was a thing that did not Gel well and was a bad spot and the rest of the show was so good it was really noticeable by comparison. Like a big red wine stain on the white seats of an otherwise perfectly restored Antique Car. It's not going to totally ruin it and it can be dealt with, but it is VERY noticeable when the whole rest of the car has been restored to the point that it could be factory new off the lot." being regarded as a stumbling block though.


I realize that I'm focusing on entirely the wrong point, but if I'm finding wine stains on car seats, I'd really start to wonder about who owned this car previously.




Something I WILL give the show credit for is doing something with Elves being about as far divorced form Tolkien as you can get.

And doing something with Giant Lore that goes past a pat one sentence hand-wave just to introduce a plot device.

The series as a whole does some interestingly subtle worldbuilding as well. What the series does establish early on, (though this was done more firmly in the graphic novel,) is that trolls can't stand the sound of a ringing bell. What does Trolberg have lining the walls that are there to keep out trolls? Bell towers. What's a major industry in Trolberg? Bell making. It's a detail that the show doesn't linger on for very long, but it's pretty cool.


I'm not sure what I think of this show. I've seen a few episodes a while ago and didn't really get into it. The setting being a fantasy world city is pretty different and unexpected, though. I wasn't expecting that to happen, and being surprised about how a story arc (especially the first one) concludes is always a plus.

I want to say that Hilda seems a bit too blasé about supposedly dangerous activities, which for me sort of undermines the feel that these are adventures. But that can't really be it because there are characters who casually endanger themselves all across fiction. Plus I don't really think that's quite so. She's just familiar with handling the unusual, which is a quite different thing.

I'm sticking by what I said about Hilda being a Miyazaki-type heroine, so being quick to engage in physical peril is to be expected. After all, she seems to be able to handle it. I mean, she's made it to what? Eight? Nine years old? And hasn't fallen to her death or been crushed underfoot by a forest giant. While she herself has a pretty casual attitude about danger, the characters around her... don't. The closest to her in attitude towards danger seems to be Frida, and in her case it seems to be more a matter of her acting impulsively.

[Metahuman1]

I literally described her entire role in the series. While I'll grant you that speculating on the personal lives of background characters is a little silly, I stick by the point that I was making-- if the writing doesn't make a point of firmly establishing character traits, they either don't have them or they're unimportant.

All that said, the whole Trevor thing seems to be something that we'll have to agree to disagree on. I gather you seem to think that he'd make a decent arc villain or foil to our heroine, I think he's not clever enough and too lazy to be able to pull it off plausibly.

You mean like Trevor having established traits like cruel, bully, brat, plausible motive for revenge and willing to act on it form positions of safety already shown on screen? That's all established, so it's there for not unimportant. If it was, hardly an reason to have him in episodes 3 and 5 at all really.

No, I am of the position that it would be nice to drop a tool in his lap to bring him up to 1-2 episode long throw away antagonist, and just remember to stick it too him on some consequences for his behavior at the end.

I've said repeatedly he'd not have the staying power to be a long term foil for her or to be an Arc Villain. MAYBE a 1-2 Episode sacrificial pawn of an Arc Villain, but the show doesn't seem to really do Arc Villains, so a 1-2 episode throw away antagonist who faces consequences at the end for it works as well or better for this show.

Beyond that, yes, we will it seems need to just agree to disagree.


Maybe. Though the Marras' main trick, giving people nightmares, is a pretty potent one. With persistence and creativity, that power could be used to get someone to seriously doubt their sanity. Pretty terrifying stuff, especially for what's an otherwise pretty lighthearted show.

I like the implication that they can use their powers for good as well. Though I think it's partially because of my distaste for the whole Bad Powers, Bad People trope. That, and... yeah, like I mentioned, I'm a bit of a sap.

They could if they were going full H.P. Lovecraft hard ball with it. But this isn't the kid of show I think wants to go all the way there.

And yes, the ability to opt to use there powers benevolently does further complicate what were shown vs. What were told about them, and keeps the "How human are they/how inhuman are they/how is that going to change as time passes and they use there powers/how much does the choice of how to use them impact that." question open and interesting to tinker with.


I realize that I'm focusing on entirely the wrong point, but if I'm finding wine stains on car seats, I'd really start to wonder about who owned this car previously.


Your ducking the point with something like this and I'm the one who's weird for noticing it and pointing it out and creating a problematic stumbling block? Really?

*Sigh.*

Fine.

Red Grape Juice and/or REALLY dark coffee on REALLY White seats of an otherwise perfectly restored antique car then. Better enough to bring it back to the point you admitted knowing you were latching onto the wrong part of?


The series as a whole does some interestingly subtle worldbuilding as well. What the series does establish early on, (though this was done more firmly in the graphic novel,) is that trolls can't stand the sound of a ringing bell. What does Trolberg have lining the walls that are there to keep out trolls? Bell towers. What's a major industry in Trolberg? Bell making. It's a detail that the show doesn't linger on for very long, but it's pretty cool.

It does. All kinds of neat little details. And again, there treated as unique, but I also get the idea that the author read some actual mythology, not just The Lord Of The Rings, and actually played with it.

"Elves can't be seen, and are often conflated as small because of being practically the same as dwarves. Ok, so, I'm going to rule that as being a combo of being able to fit comfortably with room to spare in the palm of a 7 or 8 year olds hand, and the magic that prevents them from being seen can be contracted away. In fact, contracting is such a big deal to Elves, there practically pocket sized Beurocratomancers, or Beurocratic nightmares, depending on one's point of view. " I have legitimately never seen THAT angle taken with them but it fits if you think about it!

The troll thing, your right, it's subtle, but it's there, and it helps explain why the wall was never stormed given that we saw a troll CAN force there way in by brute force.

The Giants, I use to have a book (Lost it in a move some time ago sadly.), a hugh collection of tales about giants in mythology, and about themes of them sort of being in decline and going away the whole time human civilization was ascending being a near global theme for them through out time the story's were being developed and told.

He actually touched on some of those theme's. And from two different points of view! That's incredibly clever, I didn't think I'd EVER see that sort of stuff done in animation! =)


I'm sticking by what I said about Hilda being a Miyazaki-type heroine, so being quick to engage in physical peril is to be expected. After all, she seems to be able to handle it. I mean, she's made it to what? Eight? Nine years old? And hasn't fallen to her death or been crushed underfoot by a forest giant. While she herself has a pretty casual attitude about danger, the characters around her... don't. The closest to her in attitude towards danger seems to be Frida, and in her case it seems to be more a matter of her acting impulsively.

Simplify it further. It's a genera convention generally well executed. It doesn't need to be a deconstruction or taken apart any further than that.

[The Fury]

Right, I took a break from the forums for a while, but I'm back now. While this is sort of an old thread now, I feel like I owe Metahuman1 some sort of response, which I'll keep brief.



They could if they were going full H.P. Lovecraft hard ball with it. But this isn't the kid of show I think wants to go all the way there.

And yes, the ability to opt to use there powers benevolently does further complicate what were shown vs. What were told about them, and keeps the "How human are they/how inhuman are they/how is that going to change as time passes and they use there powers/how much does the choice of how to use them impact that." question open and interesting to tinker with.

You might be correct that Hilda might not be the sort of show that would ever get that dark, though what is understood about the setting lore makes it seem possible within the setting. That, and it's also a show that has had some pretty dark stuff in it already, (spells that steal souls, unexplained magic houses that can keep you imprisoned forever.) In any case, I'd like to see more of the Marra in season 2.


Your ducking the point with something like this and I'm the one who's weird for noticing it and pointing it out and creating a problematic stumbling block? Really?

*Sigh.*

Fine.

Red Grape Juice and/or REALLY dark coffee on REALLY White seats of an otherwise perfectly restored antique car then. Better enough to bring it back to the point you admitted knowing you were latching onto the wrong part of?

...OK, I feel like I should clarify my position here-- The substance of what I think you're getting at is a point I generally agree with. That clear and obvious flaws in a work are all the more noticeable when the work has relatively few. I really only disagree on the specifics of what I'm willing to consider an egregious flaw.

I thought that position was understood, so I ended up focusing on an imagined scenario where some weirdo took a perfectly restored Duesenberg to the Napa Valley and messily drank Cabernet in the driver's seat and drove home.

In short, I don't always explain myself well, and I apologize

[Morty]

I've seen people suggest that Hilda's missing father might be a spirit of some kind. I'm not sure what to think about such a theory. I guess Hilda and her mother were living in the middle of nowhere and maybe there's a reason. And it'd explain Hilda's blue hair. Also, it'd sort of fit the role of mediator between humans and supernatural beings she ends up taking. But then, maybe she just has blue hair for aesthetic reasons and there's no deep explanation for it. And her father being out of the picture might likewise have no particular importance to it.

[The Fury]

I've seen people suggest that Hilda's missing father might be a spirit of some kind. I'm not sure what to think about such a theory. I guess Hilda and her mother were living in the middle of nowhere and maybe there's a reason. And it'd explain Hilda's blue hair. Also, it'd sort of fit the role of mediator between humans and supernatural beings she ends up taking. But then, maybe she just has blue hair for aesthetic reasons and there's no deep explanation for it. And her father being out of the picture might likewise have no particular importance to it.

I'm not sure what to think of that either. So far Hilda's lack of a dad isn't something the story calls attention to. Both Hilda and Johanna seem fine with not having him around wherever he is, and there's more focus given to Johanna's struggle to get graphic design work.

I can see the appeal of this theory though. So far there's only one other person besides Hilda that has an odd hair color-- The Librarian. And The Librarian is very heavily implied to be supernatural in some way. It might be that Hilda's blue hair was meant to be an early clue to her semi-supernatural... nature. Or maybe not. Evidently Luke Pearson liked to play coy when asked about Hilda's blue hair.

Something I'm a little bit more curious about is that picture from the house in the woods. When Woodman and Hilda are trying to escape the house and find themselves in a seemingly endless stairway, they find a landing with portraits hung on the walls. Among them are portraits of Johanna, Frida, David, and Twig but also what looks like a female Woodman. Who's that? Is it Woodman's mother? His ex? His sister? Based on how the house seems to work, it must have been someone Woodman wanted to see.

[Metahuman1]

Right, I took a break from the forums for a while, but I'm back now. While this is sort of an old thread now, I feel like I owe Metahuman1 some sort of response, which I'll keep brief.

No worries. Breaks from time to time are actually generally good for people I've found. =)



You might be correct that Hilda might not be the sort of show that would ever get that dark, though what is understood about the setting lore makes it seem possible within the setting. That, and it's also a show that has had some pretty dark stuff in it already, (spells that steal souls, unexplained magic houses that can keep you imprisoned forever.) In any case, I'd like to see more of the Marra in season 2.

True, but while it's had some dark concepts, it seems to really try to minimize the darkness of the atmosphere there happening in. Which, suggests, as a whole, the show doesn't want to go that dark.

But then again maybe it will. When Adventure Time first came out, I would have never expected it to be capable of doing some of the stuff it did in later seasons, like Magic Man and the whole Lovecraftian world within Jake, or costing Finn his arm. So, I've been wrong before. Reguardless, yes, I could stand to see more of them if for no other reason than learning more about them.




...OK, I feel like I should clarify my position here-- The substance of what I think you're getting at is a point I generally agree with. That clear and obvious flaws in a work are all the more noticeable when the work has relatively few. I really only disagree on the specifics of what I'm willing to consider an egregious flaw.

I thought that position was understood, so I ended up focusing on an imagined scenario where some weirdo took a perfectly restored Duesenberg to the Napa Valley and messily drank Cabernet in the driver's seat and drove home.

In short, I don't always explain myself well, and I apologize

See, that was indeed the substance of it.

And I did think we were more or less on the same page.

And then you threw that last remark, which made me less sure, in there. So, suddenly less sure, I pursued with the whole "Ok, fine, here are other things that leave stains that a great many adults consume in there cars regularly. Or a great many parents give too there kids in the car at least semi regularly." thing in an effort to make sure the more important "When a work is good and has few obvious flaws, the few it does have become MUCH more noticeable." point had, in fact, been locked in on.

So, that out of the way.



I've seen people suggest that Hilda's missing father might be a spirit of some kind. I'm not sure what to think about such a theory. I guess Hilda and her mother were living in the middle of nowhere and maybe there's a reason. And it'd explain Hilda's blue hair. Also, it'd sort of fit the role of mediator between humans and supernatural beings she ends up taking. But then, maybe she just has blue hair for aesthetic reasons and there's no deep explanation for it. And her father being out of the picture might likewise have no particular importance to it.

Well, if it's incorrect, it's not going to ruin it or even detract from it for me or anything. And it's a neat idea if it is correct. So, either way works for me on that one. =)


I'm not sure what to think of that either. So far Hilda's lack of a dad isn't something the story calls attention to. Both Hilda and Johanna seem fine with not having him around wherever he is, and there's more focus given to Johanna's struggle to get graphic design work.

I can see the appeal of this theory though. So far there's only one other person besides Hilda that has an odd hair color-- The Librarian. And The Librarian is very heavily implied to be supernatural in some way. It might be that Hilda's blue hair was meant to be an early clue to her semi-supernatural... nature. Or maybe not. Evidently Luke Pearson liked to play coy when asked about Hilda's blue hair.

Something I'm a little bit more curious about is that picture from the house in the woods. When Woodman and Hilda are trying to escape the house and find themselves in a seemingly endless stairway, they find a landing with portraits hung on the walls. Among them are portraits of Johanna, Frida, David, and Twig but also what looks like a female Woodman. Who's that? Is it Woodman's mother? His ex? His sister? Based on how the house seems to work, it must have been someone Woodman wanted to see.

Actually, they do briefly call attention too it. When Mum is calling around later in the series looking for Hilda while Hilda's MIA, she calls Frida's parents and is asking after her. Frida's Mum, in turn, makes a quick crack about of course she'll keep and eye out for her, she knows how hard it can be to give a child adequate supervision when your a single parent.

Which, does not amuse Hilda's Mum and we see that on her face before the show moves onto the next and more important thing.

It's subtle and quick so it might be overlooked, but it's there.

And the connection to the Librarian is, interesting. Come to think of it, does anyone recall if any of the Marra have odd colored hair? Or the background Elves perhaps? If so that might help provide more support to that theory.

Maybe the author wants people to speculate? Or doesn't want to admit if anyone guesses it or not until he's ready for it in a book? Or maybe he just plans to keep his options open till he's done with the matter and then after he's walked away and not coming back he can commit? Who can be sure.


As for Woodman, it's, hard to say. He seems to be a hard one to figure out, certainly completely. There's something at parts of his reasoning of things that follows a logic I can't fathom, but always carry's itself as following some manner of logic. Which is good actually, it makes him feel like he's not just a human in a weird costume.

[The Fury]

Actually, they do briefly call attention too it. When Mum is calling around later in the series looking for Hilda while Hilda's MIA, she calls Frida's parents and is asking after her. Frida's Mum, in turn, makes a quick crack about of course she'll keep and eye out for her, she knows how hard it can be to give a child adequate supervision when your a single parent.

Which, does not amuse Hilda's Mum and we see that on her face before the show moves onto the next and more important thing.

It's subtle and quick so it might be overlooked, but it's there.


That's true, though even without that exchange it's reasonable to infer that Johanna is a single mother. What I was getting at is that Hilda's lack of a dad isn't a point the series dwells on.

Looking at background details, there's photos of Johanna, Twig and Hilda in their home, as well as doodles of weird critters that Hilda has made. None of anyone that might be her dad though. From this I gather that Johanna probably isn't widowed or divorced and Hilda herself has never met her dad.

Granted, nothing in the show has said anything about who Hilda's father is so we all can speculate as much as we want.



And the connection to the Librarian is, interesting. Come to think of it, does anyone recall if any of the Marra have odd colored hair? Or the background Elves perhaps? If so that might help provide more support to that theory.

Maybe the author wants people to speculate? Or doesn't want to admit if anyone guesses it or not until he's ready for it in a book? Or maybe he just plans to keep his options open till he's done with the matter and then after he's walked away and not coming back he can commit? Who can be sure.

I recall that the Marra were all pretty mundane-looking. As long as they don't use their Marra-powers or make their eyes glow or anything. As for the elves... they're not drawn in too great of detail. I think most of them have hair that matches their skin. Some of them have brown or grey hair though.

The Librarian's lavender-black two-tone 'do does stand out from the other characters', so I'm pretty sure that was a deliberate visual cue to make her clearly significant. Maybe she's secretly Hilda's auntie? Whatever her role is, it seems like there's a great deal more to her. I mean, The Librarian even appears fairly prominently in the intro.


As for Woodman, it's, hard to say. He seems to be a hard one to figure out, certainly completely. There's something at parts of his reasoning of things that follows a logic I can't fathom, but always carry's itself as following some manner of logic. Which is good actually, it makes him feel like he's not just a human in a weird costume.

Woodman, as I understand him, doesn't like sharing much about himself. Other than fairly superficial stuff such as liking country music and dirt tea. This does make him kind of hard to figure out. Though if the House in the Woods works the way I think it does, this does suggest a couple things-- that Woodman isn't the only member of his species, that his kind can have interpersonal relationships with one another and he has had one.

Pretty sketchy and light on details, I know, but it suggests that there might be more to him.

Also, for those of you that like a them little video editing, I discovered this little clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6exe-Y5SDsU). What did Hilda find behind the door? Whatever wacky thing you feel like editing in!

[Morty]

I'm not sure what to think of that either. So far Hilda's lack of a dad isn't something the story calls attention to. Both Hilda and Johanna seem fine with not having him around wherever he is, and there's more focus given to Johanna's struggle to get graphic design work.

I can see the appeal of this theory though. So far there's only one other person besides Hilda that has an odd hair color-- The Librarian. And The Librarian is very heavily implied to be supernatural in some way. It might be that Hilda's blue hair was meant to be an early clue to her semi-supernatural... nature. Or maybe not. Evidently Luke Pearson liked to play coy when asked about Hilda's blue hair.

Something I'm a little bit more curious about is that picture from the house in the woods. When Woodman and Hilda are trying to escape the house and find themselves in a seemingly endless stairway, they find a landing with portraits hung on the walls. Among them are portraits of Johanna, Frida, David, and Twig but also what looks like a female Woodman. Who's that? Is it Woodman's mother? His ex? His sister? Based on how the house seems to work, it must have been someone Woodman wanted to see.

The librarian is pretty clearly a magician or witch of some sort, but I felt like her hair is just dyed in keeping with her goth aesthetic. Hilda's hair is blue all over. But yes, otherwise it's "maybe, maybe not" at this point. Being coy about it does suggest there might be something there, but who knows.

I wouldn't expect the "Woodman but with hair" picture to be important in the long run, though.

[Metahuman1]

That's true, though even without that exchange it's reasonable to infer that Johanna is a single mother. What I was getting at is that Hilda's lack of a dad isn't a point the series dwells on.

Looking at background details, there's photos of Johanna, Twig and Hilda in their home, as well as doodles of weird critters that Hilda has made. None of anyone that might be her dad though. From this I gather that Johanna probably isn't widowed or divorced and Hilda herself has never met her dad.

Granted, nothing in the show has said anything about who Hilda's father is so we all can speculate as much as we want.

Yeah, currently the show isn't overly concerned with her dad. Maybe that changes at some point. Will see.




I recall that the Marra were all pretty mundane-looking. As long as they don't use their Marra-powers or make their eyes glow or anything. As for the elves... they're not drawn in too great of detail. I think most of them have hair that matches their skin. Some of them have brown or grey hair though.

The Librarian's lavender-black two-tone 'do does stand out from the other characters', so I'm pretty sure that was a deliberate visual cue to make her clearly significant. Maybe she's secretly Hilda's auntie? Whatever her role is, it seems like there's a great deal more to her. I mean, The Librarian even appears fairly prominently in the intro.

Eh, The giants from the first 2 episodes appear really prominently as well in the opening too though. Let's be honest, that's not in and of itself conclusive of anything.

But again, will see what they do with her. Cause I do actually agree, I feel like there setting her up for something.



Woodman, as I understand him, doesn't like sharing much about himself. Other than fairly superficial stuff such as liking country music and dirt tea. This does make him kind of hard to figure out. Though if the House in the Woods works the way I think it does, this does suggest a couple things-- that Woodman isn't the only member of his species, that his kind can have interpersonal relationships with one another and he has had one.

Pretty sketchy and light on details, I know, but it suggests that there might be more to him.

Also, for those of you that like a them little video editing, I discovered this little clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6exe-Y5SDsU). What did Hilda find behind the door? Whatever wacky thing you feel like editing in!

It, probably won't be important. Depends how important they make Woodman later though I suppose.



The librarian is pretty clearly a magician or witch of some sort, but I felt like her hair is just dyed in keeping with her goth aesthetic. Hilda's hair is blue all over. But yes, otherwise it's "maybe, maybe not" at this point. Being coy about it does suggest there might be something there, but who knows.

I wouldn't expect the "Woodman but with hair" picture to be important in the long run, though.

About the size of it in my estimation. =)