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kosh49
2018-09-18, 06:45 PM
So looking over 5e one thing that is not there but feels like it should be is a partial caster using pact magic. The two partial caster models we have are a half caster class that has it as a core feature of the class and a third caster subclass that adds casting ability to a class that does not normally have it. I am not confident in my ability to homebrew a whole new class, but I thought I could handle the subclass. For the base class, I did not want to step on the Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster’s toes, and Barbarian rage does not interact well with casting so I decided to make this a Monk subclass.

Once I decided that I set my goals for the subclass:
A – Provide pact magic slots based on a 1/3 progression. Partly because this is the reason I am doing this in the first place, and partly because the alternative is to use the ki based spell casting that is part of the reason why the W4E (Way of the Four Elements) monk is so unpopular.
B – Have the subclass influenced by the nature of the patron. Since the pact magic comes from a deal with a specific supernatural entity this feels like a necessity for a pact magic based subclass, although the effect should be less pronounced than it is for the warlock.
C – Provide benefits in addition to spell casting at all subclass levels. Both the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster do this. The fact that the W4E monk does not is another reason it is so unpopular.
D – Provide uses of ki that are unique to this subclass and which fit the theme of the subclass. Every official monk subclass does this, so it feels necessary.
E – Provide abilities that do not consume ki (or other resources). Every official monk subclass does this, so it feels necessary. Also, the fact that Elemental Attunement provides so little effective functionality as the only option of this type is another reason why W4E monks are unpopular.

I have revised this significantly based on the feedback I have received. Any additional feedback would be appreciated. (Thanks Vogie for all of your help.)

This is an old thread, but I am updating it to add the Warlock subclasses from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything to the options. If anyone looking at this with a fresh set of eyes has additional feedback, it would be most welcome.

WAY OF THE HARBINGER:
Many monastic orders serve one or more gods or some other supernatural creature. Some monks seek to increase their connection to those entities by making a pact with one of those entities or with a powerful supernatural servitor of those entities. Not all monastic orders allow their members to follow the way of the harbinger, and none are dedicated to this tradition. But the powerful magics available to those few who follow this tradition makes them very effective indeed.

BONUS PROFICIENCY
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, select a Patron from the Warlock Patron list. You get a bonus proficiency based on the nature of your Patron:
Archfey: Deception
Celestial: Medicine
Fathomless: Stealth
Fiend: Persuasion
Genie: Arcana
Great Old One: Insight
Hexblade: Intimidation
Undying: Survival

Harbinger Spellcasting


Monk Level
Cantrips
Spells known
Eldritch Secrets
Slot level
Number of spell slots


3rd
2
2
0
1st
1


4th
2
2
0
1st
2


5th
2
3
1
1st
2


6th
2
3
1
1st
2


7th
2
4
1
2nd
2


8th
2
4
1
2nd
2


9th
2
5
2
2nd
2


10th
2
5
2
2nd
2


11th
3
6
2
2nd
2


12th
3
6
2
2nd
2


13th
3
7
2
3rd
2


14th
3
7
2
3rd
2


15th
3
8
3
3rd
2


16th
3
8
3
3rd
2


17th
3
9
3
3rd
2


18th
3
9
3
3rd
2


19th
3
10
3
4th
2


20th
3
10
3
4th
2




PACT MAGIC
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your patron grants you the ability to cast spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the warlock spell list.
Cantrips. You learn two cantrips of your choice from the warlock spell list. You learn an additional warlock cantrip of your choice at 11th level.
Spell Slots. The Harbinger Spellcasting table shows how many spell slots you have. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your harbinger spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest.
For example, when you are 13th level, you have two 3rd-level spell slots. To cast the 1st-level spell hex, you must spend one of those slots, and you cast it as a 3rd-level spell.
Spells Known of 1st-Level and Higher. You know two 1st-level spells of your choice selected from your harbinger spell list which consists of all warlock spells of 4th level or lower and all spells of 4th level or lower on the expanded spell list your patron grants to warlocks of the same patron.
The Spells Known column of the Harbinger Spellcasting table shows when you learn more harbinger spells of 1st level or higher. A spell you choose must be of a level no higher than what’s shown in the table's Slot Level column for your level. For instance, when you reach 7th level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level.
Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the harbinger spells you know with another spell of your choice from the harbinger spell list. The new spell must also be of a level no higher than what’s shown in the table's Slot Level column for your monk level.
Eldritch Secrets. The Eldritch Secrets column on the harbinger spellcasting table gives the minimum number of spells you must know from the expanded spell list your patron grants to warlocks of the same patron. You can know more than the minimum number of spells from this list. No particular spell needs to come from this list as long as once you are finished selecting new spells and swapping spells when you gain a level the number of spells you know from this list is greater than or equal to the number in the Eldritch Secrets column. These spells do count against your spells known as well.
Spellcasting Ability. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your harbinger spells. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a harbinger spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

MARTIAL ARTS MAGIC
Starting at 3rd level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action, or you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action.

DAZING SPELLS
Starting at 6th level your spells can overwhelm an opponent’s psyche. When you hit another creature with a spell attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt to daze them. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or be incapacitated until the end of your next turn.

ELDRITCH INVOCATIONS
At 11th level your patron makes eldritch invocations available to you. You select 2 invocations from the list of invocations available to a warlock. Your level for the purposes of selecting invocations and determining the effect of invocations is considered to be one third your monk level, rounded up. You may not select an invocation which requires a specific pact boon. If the effect of the invocation refers to your Charisma ability or your Charisma ability bonus, use your Wisdom ability or your Wisdom ability bonus instead.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level.

HARBINGER’S AID
At 17th level you can call on your patron for assistance. As an action you can spend 6 ki points to request your patron to send 1 CR 5 creature or 2 CR 4 creatures to aid you. The creature type that responds depends on your patron as follows:
Archfey: Fey
Celestial: Celestial
Fathomless: Ooze
Fiend: Fiend
Genie: Elemental
Great Old One: Aberration
Hexblade: Construct
Undying: Undead
The DM chooses the specific creature(s) that respond. Each creature that responds appears in an unoccupied space that you can see within 60 feet. Each creature disappears when it drops to 0 hit points or when 10 minutes have passed. Each creature that responds is friendly to you and your companions for the duration. Roll initiative for each creature, which has its own turns and obeys any verbal commands that you issue to it (no action required by you), as long as they aren't opposed to its nature. If you don’t issue any commands the creature defends itself from hostile creatures but otherwise takes no actions. A CR 5 creature arrives with temporary hit points equal to your monk level plus your Wisdom bonus, and CR 4 creatures arrive with half that number of temporary hit points. Any creatures summoned by this ability also receives a bonus to all attack rolls equal to your Wisdom bonus. Once you have used this ability you must complete a long rest before you can use it again.


MULTICLASSING:
The following special rules apply to Way of the Harbinger monks when multiclassing.
Pact spell slots. Characters who have levels in both the warlock class and the monk class following the Way of the Harbinger have the pact spell slots of a single class warlock whose level equals the multiclass character’s warlock level plus one third (round down) of the multiclass character’s monk level. So a 7th level warlock/11th level Way of the Harbinger monk has two 5th level spell slots (as a 10th level warlock would). Characters having both regular spellcasting classes and pact magic classes ignore their pact magic classes when determining their regular spellcasting slots and ignore their regular spellcasting classes when determining their pact magic slots.

Eldritch Invocations. Characters who have levels in the warlock class who have 10 or fewer levels in the monk class following the Way of the Harbinger ignore the monk levels when selecting invocations or determining their effects.
Characters who have levels in the warlock class who have at least 11 levels in the monk class following the Way of the Harbinger select their invocations separately for each class. So a 7th level warlock/11th level Way of the Harbinger monk selects 4 invocations from among those available to 7th level warlocks with the pact boon selected as a 3rd level warlock (which use Charisma to determine their effect) and selects 2 additional invocations from among those available to a 4th level warlock with no pact boon (which use Wisdom to determine their effect). A character can not have any invocation on both classes list of invocations known. The level of ritual spells that can be transcribed due to the Book of Ancient Secrets ignores the character’s monk levels (as per the rules on learning spells), while other invocation effects based on warlock level (such as the temporary hit points granted by Tomb of Levistus) use the sum of the character’s warlock level plus one third (round down) of the character’s monk level.

Patrons. Characters who have levels in both the warlock class and the monk class following the Way of the Harbinger are strongly encouraged to choose the same patron for both classes. Players with two different patrons WILL wind up in situations where the patron’s demands are incompatible and they will face negative consequences from the patron whose demands are not met. The frequency and severity of these situations are up to DM and should depend on the natures of the two patrons involved. If the two patrons are the Celestial and the Fiend the character will probably be in severe trouble with one or both of their patrons at all times (and other servants of the patron(s) may be sent to deal with the troublesome renegade). Other patron combinations will probably be less contentious, but even patrons with either very similar goals or very unrelated interests should have occasional conflicts that cause the character in game negative consequences.

Thundersteel
2018-09-18, 06:50 PM
So, I like the idea of a monk answer to the EK, but... why Warlock?

Given that Wisdom is already one of their primary stats, and they already have religious overtones, wouldn't a monk-cleric hybrid be a more thematic fit? Or is that too on the nose?

Vogie
2018-09-19, 12:24 PM
WAY OF THE HARBINGER:
Many monastic orders serve one or more gods or some other supernatural creature. Some monks seek to increase their connection to those entities by making a pact with one of those entities or with a powerful supernatural servitor of those entities. Not all monastic orders allow their members to follow the way of the harbinger, and none are dedicated to this tradition. But the powerful magics available to those few who follow this tradition makes them very effective indeed.

BONUS PROFICIENCY
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, select a Patron from the Warlock Patron list. You get a bonus proficiency based on the nature of your Patron:
Archfey: Deception
Celestial: Medicine
Fiend: Persuasion
Great Old One: Insight
Hexblade: Intimidation
Undying: Survival

Harbinger Spellcasting
Monk Level...Cantrips...Spells...Spell Slots
3rd...................2...........2........1 at 1st
4th to 6th..........2...........2........2 at 1st
7th to 9th..........2...........3........2 at 2nd
10th..................2...........4........2 at 2nd
11th to 12th.......3...........4........2 at 2nd
13th to 15th.......3...........5........2 at 3rd
16th to 18th.......3...........6........2 at 3rd
19th to 20th.......3...........7........2 at 4th
PACT MAGIC
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your patron grants you the ability to cast spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the warlock spell list.
Cantrips. You learn two cantrips of your choice from the warlock spell list. You learn an additional warlock cantrip of your choice at 11th level.
Spell Slots. The Harbinger Spellcasting table shows how many spell slots you have. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest.
For example, when you are 13th level, you have two 3rd-level spell slots. To cast the 1st-level spell hex, you must spend one of those slots, and you cast it as a 3rd-level spell.
Spells Known of 1st-Level and Higher. You know two 1st-level warlock spells of your choice.
The Spells Known column of the Harbinger Spellcasting table shows when you learn more warlock spells of 1st level or higher. A spell you choose must be of a level no higher than what’s shown in the table's Slot Level column for your level. For instance, when you reach 7th level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level.
Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the warlock spells you know with another spell of your choice from the warlock spell list as long as you do not swap an eldritch secret at the same level. The new spell must also be of a level no higher than what’s shown in the table's Slot Level column for your monk level.
Spellcasting Ability. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your warlock spells. You use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a warlock spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

ELDRITCH SECRETS
Monk Level...# Secrets...Max Level...Maximum Ki
3rd-6th................1...........1st................ 2
7th-12th..............2...........2nd................3
13th-18th............3............3rd................4
19th-20th............4............4th................5
ELDRITCH SECRETS
When you choose this tradition at 3rd level the Patron you chose reveals a special spell to you. Choose one 1st level spell from the expanded spell list your patron grants to warlocks of the same patron. You can cast this spell at a cost of 2 ki points. You must finish a long rest before you can cast this spell again.
You can choose additional eldritch secrets from the expanded spell list your patron grants to warlocks of the same patron as you gain levels in this class, according to the Eldritch Secrets table which shows the number of secrets known and the maximum spell level for secrets known. Each eldritch secret spell can be cast once per long rest using ki points. The base ki point cost for each eldritch secret is 1 plus the spell’s level. If the base cost is less than the the Maximum Ki Points on the Eldritch Secrets table you can spend additional ki points to increase the level of the eldritch secret spell that you cast, provided that the spell has an enhanced effect at a higher level, as burning hands does. The spell's level increases by 1 for each additional ki point you spend. For example, if you are a 7th-level monk and use your eldritch secret to cast burning hands, you can spend 3 ki points to cast it as a 2nd-level spell (the base cost of 2 ki points plus 1).
At each level that you gain a new eldritch secret you can replace an existing eldritch secret with another one from the same list which is no higher than the maximum level on the Eldritch Secrets table, as long as you do not swap a pact magic spell or an invocation at the same level.
Eldritch secret spells are the only spells you can cast with ki points, but you can not cast your eldritch secret spells using spell slots.

MARTIAL ARTS MAGIC
Starting at 6th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action, or you can spend 1 ki point to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus attack.

ELDRITCH INVOCATIONS
At 11th level your patron makes eldritch invocations available to you. You select 2 invocations from the list of invocations available to a warlock. Your level for the purposes of selecting invocations and determining the effect of invocations is considered to be one third your monk level, rounded up. You may not select an invocation which requires a specific pact boon.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level, as long as you do not swap an eldritch secret at the same level.

PERSISTENT MAGIC
At 17th level whenever a creature successfully saves against one of your spells you can force that creature to roll the saving throw again for 2 ki points. The creature must use the result of the second roll, and if it fails it will also have disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against one of your spells as long as that saving throw occurs before the end of your next turn. You can only use this ability against a creature once per spell.


Here is a table format you can use - just quote and copy-paste, adding more table rows (tr) as needed.


Monk Level
Cantrips
Spells known
Slot level
Number of spell slots


3rd
2
2
1st
1




Alright - Some thoughts:

Even though it is key'd off Warlocks, use Wisdom as your casting stat. Being a monk requires a certain amount of Wisdom anyway, especially if you're even maybe kinda considering Multiclassing. This isn't crazy-absurd, as the Divine Soul Sorcerer uses the cleric list based off Charisma. In my sig, I have a warlock patron that uses the Druid spell list, but is still based on Charisma, rather than Wisdom. Creating a

I'd also keep both the pact magic slots AND Eldritch Secrets refresh off of Short rests rather than long rests - both Warlocks and Monks are Short Rest classes, so trying to combine the 2 , and introduce a Long rest element in the subclass is just jarring.

I think Martial Arts/War Magic is pretty awesome.

The introduction of Eldritch Invocations is decent, but I don't see the point of limiting the level. You already don't get them at level 2 - they're at 11 - and then the bulk of the strongest ones are tied to pact boons, which this monk doesn't have access to. I'd say just have the Monk level equal the warlock level, or even Monk level minus 3 (so they don't get Invisibility crazy Early)

I'm not a huge fan of the capstone... it feels like a Sorcerer effect, not a Monk OR Warlock effect. You could provide the Pact Boons and more invocations at 17, or create new monk-esque boons, a more monk-esque feature, or give them more Harbinger-y feel.

kosh49
2018-09-19, 07:15 PM
Thundersteel, the main reason I used the warlock is because my intention was to create a pact magic based partial caster. It also occurs to me that a melee fighter using cleric magic encroaches on the paladin's territory.

Vogie:
Given that the base monk is already SAD and using Charisma as the spell casting stat makes it worse I probably will change it to Wisdom.

My concern with tying the Eldritch Secrets to a short rest is that would effectively give the monk who is willing to burn ki the equivalent of 3 pact magic slots at 4th level (vs the warlock's 11th level), 4 slots at 7th level (vs the warlock's 17th level), 5 slots at 13th level (not possible for the warlock), and 6 slots at 20th level. Tying Eldritch Secrets to a long rest puts them more in line with invocations like Dreadful Word or Sculptor of Flesh. I could integrate the Eldritch Secrets into the Pact Magic to get them on the short rest timing (by raising spells known to half level and requiring some spells known to come from the expanded spell list), but then I would need a new feature at level 3 that uses ki because otherwise I do not get a unique ki use for this subclass until level 17.

The concern I have with having the monk qualify for invocations at a higher level than what is listed here are the invocations like Dreadful Word and Sculptor of Flesh. At 11th level when the monk gets invocations the spell casting from Pact Magic and Eldritch Secrets is limited to 2nd level spells, but the invocation provided spells can go up to 5th level spells. Even going half monk level for the invocations puts the level of invocation provided spells above the level of actual spells useable, which does not happen with the warlock.

The capstone is the feature I am least happy with. It is intended as an analogue of Magical Ambush (Arcane Trickster 9)/Eldritch Strike (Eldritch Knight 10). The Eldritch Knight's version keys off hitting things in combat because that is what fighters do, the Arcane Trickster's version keys off hiding because that is what rogues do, so this version keys off using ki because that is what monks do. I decided that it needed to be stronger than the other two abilities because the monk is getting it so much later, which is why I gave it the flexibility of being able to be used on any saving throw against a spell (not just one the round the spell is cast) and it has a lingering effect to the next saving throw. That said, I am still not entirely thrilled with the ability and am definitely open to suggestions for an alternate capstone.

Vogie
2018-09-20, 08:38 AM
My concern with tying the Eldritch Secrets to a short rest is that would effectively give the monk who is willing to burn ki the equivalent of 3 pact magic slots at 4th level (vs the warlock's 11th level), 4 slots at 7th level (vs the warlock's 17th level), 5 slots at 13th level (not possible for the warlock), and 6 slots at 20th level. Tying Eldritch Secrets to a long rest puts them more in line with invocations like Dreadful Word or Sculptor of Flesh. I could integrate the Eldritch Secrets into the Pact Magic to get them on the short rest timing (by raising spells known to half level and requiring some spells known to come from the expanded spell list), but then I would need a new feature at level 3 that uses ki because otherwise I do not get a unique ki use for this subclass until level 17.

That's a perfectly legitimate concern - but remember, you're the one crafting the class. If that's the case, then why not have only 1 pact magic slot until level 11 or higher? Just because the RAW Warlock immediately jumps from 1 Pact Slot to 2, doesn't mean this subclass should. That way the Harbingers have a single pact magic spell rest, then an additional list of spells that can only be cast via ki, which is also per rest.

Another option is to take a page from the Sun Soul Monk, and eschew levels of spell slots entirely - the monk would spend Ki to increase the level (which would be limited to 1/2/3/4 based on level), and just have flat spell slots. Alternatively, you could flip that to a 4-elements-monk-meets-warlock style, and make the spells just cost a flat 1, 2, 3, or 4 ki points.


The concern I have with having the monk qualify for invocations at a higher level than what is listed here are the invocations like Dreadful Word and Sculptor of Flesh. At 11th level when the monk gets invocations the spell casting from Pact Magic and Eldritch Secrets is limited to 2nd level spells, but the invocation provided spells can go up to 5th level spells. Even going half monk level for the invocations puts the level of invocation provided spells above the level of actual spells useable, which does not happen with the warlock.

That is something I had forgotten about, so the 1/3rd level conversion is correct. Nicely done.


The capstone is the feature I am least happy with. It is intended as an analogue of Magical Ambush (Arcane Trickster 9)/Eldritch Strike (Eldritch Knight 10). The Eldritch Knight's version keys off hitting things in combat because that is what fighters do, the Arcane Trickster's version keys off hiding because that is what rogues do, so this version keys off using ki because that is what monks do. I decided that it needed to be stronger than the other two abilities because the monk is getting it so much later, which is why I gave it the flexibility of being able to be used on any saving throw against a spell (not just one the round the spell is cast) and it has a lingering effect to the next saving throw. That said, I am still not entirely thrilled with the ability and am definitely open to suggestions for an alternate capstone.

You could:

Create some sort of convergence of Unarmed strikes and Eldritch Blasts
Give a warlock-esque curse that limits the targets' saving throws, like a non-concentration-requiring Bestow Curse (which this class can't normally do, due to no 5th level spell slots)
Give a Harbinger-ish feature that summons something specific, makes people flee in terror, or gives you glimpses into the future.
Since you've already allowed them to collect the different Warlock patrons, maybe give those subclass' 14th-level feature, just at monk level 17. That way Hexblade Monks can move their curses around, GOO Monks can have a thrall, Fiend monks hurl their targets through hell, et cetera.
Give the ability to use the Monk stunning strike from range, something like, but not precisely, Power Word Stun. Maybe tie to a cantrip hit?
A reload ability similar to the monk capstone, "when you roll for initiative and have no spell slots, gain a spell slot".

kosh49
2018-09-20, 09:17 PM
OK, so I have made some pretty substantial revisions.

I changed the spellcasting attribute to Wisdom. Should I also make the invocations like Agonizing Blast use Wisdom instead of Charisma as well? If so it will be very important for warlock/harbinger multiclass characters to keep track of which class (and therefore which attribute) each of their invocations is associated with.

I have integrated the Eldritch Secrets into the Pact Magic.

The new level 3 ability is similar to stunning strike, but the effect has been weakened partly because of the flexibility of attacking at range and partly because it is being received early.

The 17th level ability now summons aid consistent with the patron. Depending on the sources of monsters available to the DM there may need to be some creative reskinning to get the correct creature type at the correct CR, but the DM should have plenty of time to deal with that before the creatures are actually needed.

kosh49
2018-09-24, 07:00 AM
I am also considering moving Dazing Spells to level 6 and Martial Arts Magic to level 3 so that the spell enhancements more closely alignn with the levels at which the corresponding melee enhancements are gained.

kosh49
2018-09-26, 06:36 PM
I made a few revisions. Does this look reasonable now?